Tom "the turtle" Herman [Lame Duck or greatest 5d chess player ever?]

[Disco Missile 456]

52 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

My dad is an Ex and has lived in TN for forty years and doesn't do message boards, while I live in Houston and do, and so am better tuned in than he is. He asked me a week or so what the skinny was on this year's team and I told him I thought we would be a little bit worse on D (thank to losing our best players at every level of the D) and a little better on O, thanks to a somewhat improved O-line.

My O/U on wins was 8, and I kinda thought I was being a little pessimistic because of my bias against Herman. I didn't like the guy when he was at UH -- he seemed to me like a guy who rode a good QB and a fluke recruit (Oliver) to a rep far beyond his actual results. I am pretty sure his career record without Greg Ward was 1-2...I pointed that out on the old board and dudes like Rex Kramer shouted me down. The hard-on for this guy was a little bit inexplicable to me -- UH's win over FSU came against a backup QB, and honest, smart Sooners (there are a few) said that it was less Herman's genius than them just laying an egg in that game, and I also pointed out that nobody really knew what kind of recruiter he was, because he'd never really done shit with any of his own recruits, except for the fluke that was Oliver. 

So I've been biased against him since forever. I stayed in Charlie's corner until Kansas. I still don't think it made logical sense to fire him after that debacle, but I also understand that a UT coach simply can't survive after losing a game like that. You have to just wash your hands of him and move on. My ideal solution was to promote Jeff Traylor to HC and retain Maddox / Gilbert so that there would be some continuity, and we would have three native Texans running the team / O, but I was told that Traylor, in spite of his impeccably legendary status in the most important recruiting region of our state, and his demonstrable success in college, was not our standard. I think because he's kinda cheesy-looking. Seriously. I honestly believe that people don't think Traylor can be an elite HC because you think he looks like a pastor at a Tyler megachurch rather than any results he has proven up in HS or college. And now he is recruiting against us at Arkansas, poaching more recruits out of ETX we can scarce afford to lose. Arkansas had lost that pipeline and now has it back. Great job there fellas. 

Nope, the hard-on for Herman sprouted by the end of year two of Charlie's ill-fated regime and would rage on all through year three, despite Herman's inexplicable defeats to Navy and SMU. Every excuse was made for Herman. Bad weather and injuries doomed him at Navy. Seriously. Herman himself furnished bulletin board material prior to the SMU game and then got fucking owned, but no, he was still The Answer. Here's your Golden Boy, when still at UH, Hermanoids:

Pretty good smack but not if you follow it up by losing to that private school up in Dallas 38-16. And springboard that school's coach to a historic rival, where he hires Jeff Traylor, and they are now again ransacking East Texas for recruits.

Yeah and now I have to back and tell my dad that 8 was a wildly optimistic number for wins. He knows that already. We should get 12.5 percent of the way there next weekend, maybe, so at least there is that. 

 

Why the anti-Herman bias, and why the support for Strong even in year 3? 

The reasons you gave for disliking him could all be applied to Charlie as well, and Charlie had the worst record in Longhorn football history.

[Walden Ponderer 12,639]

3 minutes ago, Shaggy3.0 said:

Get Pete Carrol. No messing around this time.

 

He's in his late 60s. No dice. But you are thinking correctly -- find somebody who wins all the fucking time, and hire them. 

 

 

Dabo turns 49 this year, by the way. Just sayin'.

[SubliminalHorn 6,808]

Dabo won’t leave Clemson unless Alabama comes calling. Why would he want to come to our shit show program? 

[Bruh Man 3,160]

1 minute ago, okiehorn said:

How do you figure its "obvious"?  

2015- #10 in country

2016 # 7 in country 

2017- sucks due to Charlie strong fired

2018- #3 recruiting class in country 

agreed offense system sucks, Coaches dont keep the best play makers in the game 

we're not getting enough blue chip guys on the dline. lb recruiting has been meh. we also for the life of us can't get a dynamic qb in this program anymore. maybe that's roschon but he won't get here for another year and probably needs a RS. i agree with your premise though, recruiting overall has been fine but there are a few problem areas along with a few dead weight recruiters on the staff. 

[C-Man 27,235]

10 minutes ago, Bruh Man said:

Gameday will be in CS next week, if they pull off an upset they're also going to get some serious momentum. This isn't me being a debbie downer or aggy, it's the reality of the situation right now.

 

•  

Don't worry. Clemson is going to mudhole aggy next week.

[MaybeACoordinator 8,349]

6 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

It has nothing to do with Herman. You fought and fought and fought for Charlie. Even here, you said we let him go too early even with the KU loss. And then said if we replaced him it ought to be with a guy like Traylor. Your posts as sweetjones and here are embarrassing. 

I came to modify my stance. I realize that there is no getting over a Kansas loss, but I hoped we would salvage some continuity by keeping Traylor, Maddox and Sterlin. But nope -- the BMDs wanted another complete regime change, and now it looks like we are headed for yet another complete regime change a year or two from now. Or do you think Ehlinger is gonna turn into Brett Favre? Are our freshman QBs gonna be the answer? Is our OL gonna turn into Cowboys 95 road-graders overnight? We are fucked for as long out as I can see and even longer if Herman's regime fails too. 

Edited September 2, 2018 by MaybeACoordinator

[SubliminalHorn 6,808]

Recruiting has been good enough to beat Maryland the past two seasons. 

[Shaggy3.0 1,695]

Where's the Louisville slugger coming off the Greyhound?
 

Poser.

[Rockethorn1978 6,098]

This Saturday when we have a 60% filled stadium I guarantee that will get CDC attention. There is no way CDC will wrap Herman around his neck and go under if he thinks we need a change. To many pussies at UT right now, fire Tom and let him go take over a mid major and “find himself” again and let’s a do a real coach search and get someone here that will really turn it around.

[Whatever 700]

It certainly looked like Herman started calling plays to get the team back in to the game. He was getting high fives on the sidelines after each of the 3 TDs we scored in the second quarter. 
After the break, it seemed like we went back to Beck because there was no fluidity in the plays being called.
It would be nice for the head coach to walk the walk instead of talking the talk. If he has players that aren’t cutting it, he benches them. He should be doing the same with his coaches. 

Correct. This shit isn't rocket surgery. With competent coaching winning 10 games should he the floor. Any coach worth his salt holds everyone accountable, including himself. He also plays players that perform in the game, when it counts, regardless of class designation.

[okiehorn 23]

5 minutes ago, Shaggy3.0 said:

 

Now show us Maryland’s rankings for those years.
Just for the lulz.
 

 

This is true, but that wasn't my argument. His point was recruiting. Coaching def sucks. Cant develop the players 

[Disco Missile 456]

5 minutes ago, okiehorn said:

How do you figure its "obvious"?  

2015- #10 in country

2016 # 7 in country 

2017- sucks due to Charlie strong fired

2018- #3 recruiting class in country 

agreed offense system sucks, Coaches dont keep the best play makers in the game 

Because we're slow. Ingram is maybe the only guy on our team with some real playmaking ability. 

The fact he disappeared after the 2nd Q isn't a recruiting issue, however.

[Bruh Man 3,160]

Just now, Rockethorn1978 said:

This Saturday when we have a 60% filled stadium I guarantee that will get CDC attention. There is no way CDC will wrap Herman around his neck and go under if he thinks we need a change. To many pussies at UT right now, fire Tom and let him go take over a mid major and “find himself” again and let’s a do a real coach search and get someone here that will really turn it around.

it's the first home game of the season and CDC/Herman have done a lot of little things this offseason to re-engage the student body. It will at least be 90% full. CDC will take notice if fundraising for his projects starts to slow down as the season goes along. 

[SubliminalHorn 6,808]

1 minute ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

This Saturday when we have a 60% filled stadium I guarantee that will get CDC attention. There is no way CDC will wrap Herman around his neck and go under if he thinks we need a change. To many pussies at UT right now, fire Tom and let him go take over a mid major and “find himself” again and let’s a do a real coach search and get someone here that will really turn it around.

The only thing keeping me from full on depression about our situation is that Herman isn’t really CDC’s guy. He didn’t hire him. I think he would be more apt to hold onto him for 3-4 years guaranteed if he had been the one to hire him. CDC has seen what a good football program can do for a school. I trust him to steer this the right direction. 

[David Dennison 18,937]

2 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

This Saturday when we have a 60% filled stadium I guarantee that will get CDC attention. There is no way CDC will wrap Herman around his neck and go under if he thinks we need a change. To many pussies at UT right now, fire Tom and let him go take over a mid major and “find himself” again and let’s a do a real coach search and get someone here that will really turn it around.

It would be nice if this carried over to the USC game, just to get the point across.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,817]

 

 

this guy makes $800,000 a year

[NowThis 931]

5 minutes ago, Walden Ponderer said:

He's in his late 60s. No dice. But you are thinking correctly -- find somebody who wins all the fucking time, and hire them. 

 

 

Dabo turns 49 this year, by the way. Just sayin'.

why not go for Saban? Geez , UT is a huge step down for Dabo, Pete C etc.  The real guy is Pat Fitzgerald of Northwestern, a P5 overachiever, just like Mack was. PF will win a national title here. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8,349]

5 minutes ago, Disco Missile said:

Why the anti-Herman bias, and why the support for Strong even in year 3? 

The reasons you gave for disliking him could all be applied to Charlie as well, and Charlie had the worst record in Longhorn football history.

Stems back to the crap that Mack left behind, and I do extend that charity to Herman too, somewhat. Legacies of shitty QBs and even worse OLs take years to overcome. It might be that I am being unfair to Herman, but there is nothing in his background that has told me he can build programs or win without a really good QB. You could say the same about Strong, but at least he recruited and developed Bridgewater. 

[UTEX_ME 4,766]

1 hour ago, Nicole44 said:

No kidding. Watching College Football Final and after the commercial break they will talk about how Texas once again sucks. I am like sad raging. 

I fucking hate Joe Tessitore. What the fucker uttered after we beat a 4-8 ND team at home in OT has made us the laughing stock of the fucking nation. 

[Rockethorn1978 6,098]

Just now, MNLonghornFUKM said:

 

 

this guy makes $800,000 a year

Exactly we pay him 800k for Tom to say they all collaborate on the game plan and have a say in play calling. For 800k I want a guy I can trust to play call and at the minimum see when a guy like Ingram is good enough and electric enough to stay on the field. He could have easily broke off a huge run but wasn’t given one more fucking carry the rest of the game. 

[Whatever 700]

 
 
this guy makes $800,000 a year

Maddening. What is the fascination with shitty ex-Nebraska coordinators?

[Beau Vine 54,292]

1 hour ago, Whatever said:

1 hour ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

Exactly, same with Ingram. They weren’t injured but with kersetter im sure herb hand has more to do with that. Ingram not getting one carry the rest of the game is just fucking stupid. 

Remember when Mack wouldn't put Benson in against OU because "he's a freshman"? Then after all the bitching he played him the next game. Hopefully we see Ingram going forward.

I believe the reason was that he didn't trust Benson on blitz pickups.  Which made even less sense to sit him for the entire game.

[C-Man 27,235]

9 minutes ago, SubliminalHorn said:

Dabo won’t leave Clemson unless Alabama comes calling. Why would he want to come to our shit show program? 

I don't think Dabo leaves Clemson ever, Bama or no Bama offer.

[SubliminalHorn 6,808]

Just now, C-Man said:

I don't think Dabo leaves Clemson ever, Bama or no Bama offer.

Maybe not. And why would he? He’s got a pretty good thing going there

[Whatever 700]

I believe the reason was that he didn't trust Benson on blitz pickups.  Which made even less sense to sit him for the entire game.

Now that you say it, I remember that. Like stunns38 said, at least Mack made the changes. Benson did quite well after the OU game that season, IIRC.

[C-Man 27,235]

13 minutes ago, Walden Ponderer said:

He's in his late 60s. No dice. But you are thinking correctly -- find somebody who wins all the fucking time, and hire them. 

 

 

Dabo turns 49 this year, by the way. Just sayin'.

I'd take Carroll in a heartbeat at this point. Let him come down, coach 4-5 years and then retire. Hopefully, the program would be in a better position to attract the next coach who will stay 10+ years and be successful.

[David Dennison 18,937]

Thanks a lot, Mack.

This is all your fault.

[GringoSalado 1,651]

We have shitty players.

[Walden Ponderer 12,639]

1 minute ago, SubliminalHorn said:

Dabo won’t leave Clemson unless Alabama comes calling. Why would he want to come to our shit show program? 

1) $$$$

2) Because the potential is there to win on an Alabama-esque level on a regular basis.

Besides, when you're a blue blood, you should act like it; you make guys like that tell you no.

[UcancallmeSurly 451]

17 minutes ago, Bruh Man said:

we're not getting enough blue chip guys on the dline. lb recruiting has been meh. we also for the life of us can't get a dynamic qb in this program anymore. maybe that's roschon but he won't get here for another year and probably needs a RS. i agree with your premise though, recruiting overall has been fine but there are a few problem areas along with a few dead weight recruiters on the staff. 

This.. first step is fixing the DL/OL & then finding a QB that can execute a legitimate scheme.

that’s the non negotiable.. filling in the rest of the gaps determines if your championship level or not.

[Jester’s Inn 43]

1). Good news - we are tied for 1st place of all the losers for the season. 

2) can’t wait to see the media reporter that is going to eat the live turtle (said he would eat one if Texas lost to Maryland). Passing that shell could be a bitch. 

3) we don’t need leach. Look at Patterson or Craig Bohls of Wyoming. 

4)  can we please use the tight end, get rid of the wide receiver screen and move the ball north/south for 95% of the time??? 

5)  going to be a long season

 

 

[Shaggy3.0 1,695]

This.. first step is fixing the DL/OL & then finding a QB that can execute a legitimate scheme.
that’s the non negotiable.. filling in the rest of the gaps determines if your championship level or not.

We’ve said this for a decade.
When will the worm finally turn?

[SubliminalHorn 6,808]

4 minutes ago, Walden Ponderer said:

1) $$$$

2) Because the potential is there to win on an Alabama-esque level on a regular basis.

Besides, when you're a blue blood, you should act like it; you make guys like that tell you no.

I used to believe #2, now I’m not so sure. 

[UTEX_ME 4,766]

4 minutes ago, Jester’s Inn said:

1). Good news - we are tied for 1st place of all the losers for the season. 

2) can’t wait to see the media reporter that is going to eat the live turtle (said he would eat one if Texas lost to Maryland). Passing that shell could be a bitch. 

3) we don’t need leach. Look at Patterson or Craig Bohls of Wyoming. 

4)  can we please use the tight end, get rid of the wide receiver screen and move the ball north/south for 95% of the time??? 

5)  going to be a long season

 

 

Leach just butt fucked Bohls 

[Bruh Man 3,160]

6 minutes ago, UcancallmeSurly said:

This.. first step is fixing the DL/OL & then finding a QB that can execute a legitimate scheme.

that’s the non negotiable.. filling in the rest of the gaps determines if your championship level or not.

give me a qb first. a dynamic qb not only makes the oline look better, he will make the defense accountable and open up opportunities for the skill players. less 3 n outs also helps the defense. team morale and confidence will also improve if the qb is playing lights out. right now, nobody respects our qbs,.

[Walden Ponderer 12,639]

2 minutes ago, SubliminalHorn said:

I used to believe #2, now I’m not so sure. 

Herman has proved that national recruiting for The University of Texas is doable. Swinney's recruiting classes at Clemson have not been appreciably better by any reasonable definition. It just takes, you know.... coaching. That's what has been missing. 

[NowThis 931]

will the sideline have the walkons doing their faux enthusiasm routine. Will we see the airlift benchpress? What wonders await us from this group?

[Jester’s Inn 43]

3 minutes ago, UTEX_ME said:

Leach just butt fucked Bohls 

Well I hope Wash St beat Wyoming.  But Bohls has taken shitvteams everywhere he’s been and made them winners

[NowThis 931]

Leach is the perfect OC, that's about it. 

[Beau Vine 54,292]

44 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Gah this is what pisses me off the most. Herman will get an extra year because he knows how to win press conferences if not games. 

Herman was a lot closer to winning the game yesterday than winning the press conference.

When columnists like Mike Finger spend 1000 words pointing out what a fraud you are, you didn't win the press conference.

[MaybeACoordinator 8,349]

48 minutes ago, Bruh Man said:

Man I almost feel physically ill this morning. I think what feels different about this loss is that I'm starting to worry that OU and A$M might start taking the edge in recruiting for the foreseeable future. I didn't feel like this the last 4-5 years but now recruits are going to start to really shy away from this program. Any slippage in talent will only make the rebuild harder for Herman. Let's face it what OU is doing right now is pretty damn impressive. Gameday will be in CS next week, if they pull off an upset they're also going to get some serious momentum. This isn't me being a debbie downer or aggy, it's the reality of the situation right now.

 

•  

And Arkansas seems likely to start poaching dudes from ETX again. 

I'm almost 50 and have loved this program since the day I was born thanks to a family tradition that goes back to the 1880s. I've seen some ups and downs since I started paying attention at the tail end of the DKR era and through the Akers years. My own time on the 40 was marked by some of the worst defeats in program history (McWilliams -- supposedly the Royal Regime Restored) and then there was the mixed bag of Mackovic, who was a total asshole but at least left behind a stocked cabinet when he was escorted off the premises. Then Mack -- the second-best coach in Texas history, until he lapsed into being the worst coach in Texas history. Strong tried and failed to dig out of the crater he left behind and Herman is trying to do the same thing, but it's not working, and I honestly do not know where we are or how to get out of this mess. Fire Herman after the end of next year? Seems likely unless he is able to win at least 8. If he could win 8 this year, that would really help, but I am pretty sure that isn't in the cards right now, but the program really needs some continuity.

I grew up ping-ponging back and forth between living in Texas and Tennessee and the woes of the Vols always amused me, but right now it seems like we are on the fast track to becoming just like them. 

Edited September 2, 2018 by MaybeACoordinator

[GHOSTUSER 361]

In short, Iconoclast has always been his biggest fan. That should tell you everything you need to know.

Greenspoint was right up there with me. I haven’t abandoned ship on the Herman train like he has. Fuck the haters.

[LTtxfan 49,300]

3 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Herman was a lot closer to winning the game yesterday than winning the press conference.

When columnists like Mike Finger spend 1000 words pointing out what a fraud you are, you didn't win the press conference.

F Mike Finger & 9.95ers

FCB

Edited September 2, 2018 by LTtxfan

[Walden Ponderer 12,639]

1 minute ago, Beau Vine said:

Herman was a lot closer to winning the game yesterday than winning the press conference.

When columnists like Mike Finger spend 1000 words pointing out what a fraud you are, you didn't win the press conference.

Honestly, Texas fans are primed to be pissed off about any loss, so the only real way he can win a press conference is by doing some things that show accountability. You know, firing somebody, or at least demoting them, addressing the things that went wrong, apologizing, anything like that.

[Goredho 17,412]

22 minutes ago, Shaggy3.0 said:

 

 

Poser.
 

 

 

Any new coach at Texas is going to be rewarded with a certain amount of faith equity — by players, pundits, recruits and fans.  They all want Texas to be “back”.  They will buy in initially, but the new coach has got to pay some of that back with some results relatively quickly.  Not strictly with wins, but with a reason for hope.  That things are going to be different.  That you are building positive momentum.

 

 If you just go out and continue to display the same problems over-and-over, that faith evaporates.  Especially at a place like Texas with the expectations to be met and the recent history that has been suffered through.  When the belief in what a coach here is selling starts to drop, then it’s damn hard to turn around the impending snowball of negative momentum.  It does not seem like Herman recognizes this.

[MaybeACoordinator 8,349]

2 minutes ago, Walden Ponderer said:

Honestly, Texas fans are primed to be pissed off about any loss, so the only real way he can win a press conference is by doing some things that show accountability. You know, firing somebody, or at least demoting them, addressing the things that went wrong, apologizing, anything like that.

Maybe he could fire Beck and hire Sterlin Gilbert. That would be a bold move. 

[SubliminalHorn 6,808]

5 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

Greenspoint was right up there with me. I haven’t abandoned ship on the Herman train like he has. Fuck the haters.

I hope the train you’re on crashes 

[Auto Driller 2,506]

Tom Herman needs a serious dose of humility or he risks losing the entire fan base and (perhaps the only thing that matters) losing the BMD as well. The only way I see him changing anything is by Del Conte sitting him down and explaining the seriousness of the situation to him.

Next time a reporter asks how offensive playcalling will be handled, he should skip the condescending and insulting tone. Answer the fucking question. “Tim calls plays. I have veto power.” Or “I decided to take over play calling for the rest of the year.” 

[Whatever 700]

Honestly, Texas fans are primed to be pissed off about any loss, so the only real way he can win a press conference is by doing some things that show accountability. You know, firing somebody, or at least demoting them, addressing the things that went wrong, apologizing, anything like that.

Hell I'd have been happy with, "I'd like to apologize to all Texas fans." LOL

[bschoolprof 6,268]

1 hour ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

My dad is an Ex and has lived in TN for forty years and doesn't do message boards, while I live in Houston and do, and so am better tuned in than he is. He asked me a week or so what the skinny was on this year's team and I told him I thought we would be a little bit worse on D (thank to losing our best players at every level of the D) and a little better on O, thanks to a somewhat improved O-line.

My O/U on wins was 8, and I kinda thought I was being a little pessimistic because of my bias against Herman. I didn't like the guy when he was at UH -- he seemed to me like a guy who rode a good QB and a fluke recruit (Oliver) to a rep far beyond his actual results. I am pretty sure his career record without Greg Ward was 1-2...I pointed that out on the old board and dudes like Rex Kramer shouted me down. The hard-on for this guy was a little bit inexplicable to me -- UH's win over FSU came against a backup QB, and honest, smart Sooners (there are a few) said that it was less Herman's genius than them just laying an egg in that game, and I also pointed out that nobody really knew what kind of recruiter he was, because he'd never really done shit with any of his own recruits, except for the fluke that was Oliver. 

So I've been biased against him since forever. I stayed in Charlie's corner until Kansas. I still don't think it made logical sense to fire him after that debacle, but I also understand that a UT coach simply can't survive after losing a game like that. You have to just wash your hands of him and move on. My ideal solution was to promote Jeff Traylor to HC and retain Maddox / Gilbert so that there would be some continuity, and we would have three native Texans running the team / O, but I was told that Traylor, in spite of his impeccably legendary status in the most important recruiting region of our state, and his demonstrable success in college, was not our standard. I think because he's kinda cheesy-looking. Seriously. I honestly believe that people don't think Traylor can be an elite HC because you think he looks like a pastor at a Tyler megachurch rather than any results he has proven up in HS or college. And now he is recruiting against us at Arkansas, poaching more recruits out of ETX we can scarce afford to lose. Arkansas had lost that pipeline and now has it back. Great job there fellas. 

Nope, the hard-on for Herman sprouted by the end of year two of Charlie's ill-fated regime and would rage on all through year three, despite Herman's inexplicable defeats to Navy and SMU. Every excuse was made for Herman. Bad weather and injuries doomed him at Navy. Seriously. Herman himself furnished bulletin board material prior to the SMU game and then got fucking owned, but no, he was still The Answer. Here's your Golden Boy, when still at UH, Hermanoids:

Pretty good smack but not if you follow it up by losing to that private school up in Dallas 38-16. And springboard that school's coach to a historic rival, where he hires Jeff Traylor, and they are now again ransacking East Texas for recruits.

Yeah and now I have to back and tell my dad that 8 was a wildly optimistic number for wins. He knows that already. We should get 12.5 percent of the way there next weekend, maybe, so at least there is that. 

 

Wait, you're the Strong apologist from shaggy that wanted us to hire Jeff Traylor as HC? Holy shit. Was that cdt23 or sweetjones?  Good times.