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Tom "the turtle" Herman [Lame Duck or greatest 5d chess player ever?]

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Vic Mackey

Vic Mackey 46936

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1 minute ago, Texas25 said:

Why the hell are people mad at the way Herman and Hager were pissed at the end, about damn time we showed some fire after a loss, no more of this smile and shake hands after the game bull shit

Because it's all for show. Fuck that. Use that energy during regulation and quit getting embarrassed all game long, especially Hager. The game was done with. I don't see the point. Herman was the classic case of "hold me back bro!". 

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Sheep Have Wool

Sheep Have Wool 1053

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2 minutes ago, Dewey said:

How are they not prepared for Gundy? 2 weeks and they looked lost as fuck in the first half and had moments of confusion in the 2nd half. Gundy has been around for a while, nothing should be a surprise.

This isn't complicated. The team started smelling its own farts while looking at a #6 ranking, saw that OSU was not a very good team, and they decided to mail it in for 3 quarters. When they realized, "Oh, shit!" it was too late.

It's not shocking, and it's exactly what you'd expect to see when a bunch of starters get benched for not showing up to practice. It's the same thing that happened over the offseason before Maryland: we thought we were too good to lose, so we did. This isn't a bad team or one that's filled with pussies, it's one that's frighteningly undisciplined that has no idea about the level of consistent effort required to win.

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clapclapclap

clapclapclap 9000

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2 minutes ago, Texas25 said:

Why the hell are people mad at the way Herman and Hager were pissed at the end, about damn time we showed some fire after a loss, no more of this smile and shake hands after the game bull shit

Because there's a difference between smart passion and stupid passion.  We lost primarily because of too much individual mental lack of discipline, both on and off the field.  It's college, so there will always be some bad decisions, but too many on this team have a pattern of dumb decision making.  Too many need to grow up and use their head more, instead of just emotion.

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Liquor and Poker

Liquor and Poker 3659

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Just now, Vic Mackey said:

Because it's all for show. Fuck that. Use that energy during regulation and quit getting embarrassed all game long, especially Hager. The game was done with. I don't see the point. Herman was the classic case of "hold me back bro!". 

Yeah I think it was calculated.  But more of a failure in execution than a horrible idea.  Show the kids you will fight for them or something like that. 

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Vic Mackey

Vic Mackey 46936

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3 minutes ago, Texas25 said:

Why the hell are people mad at the way Herman and Hager were pissed at the end, about damn time we showed some fire after a loss, no more of this smile and shake hands after the game bull shit

Because the game would have played out exactly the same had we kicked deep? Once we didn't recover that, it deflates the whole psyche of the team. Even if they don't gain a yard, they would pin us deep on the punt. Him doing that took all the air out of the game. We had very little chance to recover. We had even a smaller chance to win after that call.

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chase25

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Posted
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Just now, Vic Mackey said:

Because it's all for show. Fuck that. Use that energy during regulation and quit getting embarrassed all game long, especially Hager. The game was done with. I don't see the point. Herman was the classic case of "hold me back bro!". 

I totally agree with the showing it in the game which we did in the 2nd half, but it's way better than Charlie Strong sitting over there with a deer and the headlights look like he doesn't know what the hell just happened.

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GabrielsHorn

GabrielsHorn 2142

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14 minutes ago, victory88 said:

We’re 6-2.  Half the board would have dreamed of that before the season.  This was a shitty fucking loss.  I’m fucking pissed.  However, we have 4 more games and we have a decent chance to get to 9 wins.  This team is not there but we’re sure as fuck heading in the right direction.  It’s as if some of y’all actually believed this team was #6 good.  We’re probably going to lose 1 more close one and I’ll still be happy to go 9-3.  This is way fucking better than the last 8 years.  This was winnable but with 3 suspended players, a road game in a hostile setting, and osu playing out of their minds, this is not a terrible loss.  Just stings right now.  

I think 90% of the board would have dreamed of that record after Maryland. He's proven he's a good coach, as has Orlando even with his fuck-ups. 

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Vic Mackey

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Just now, Liquor and Poker said:

Yeah I think it was calculated.  But more of a failure in execution than a horrible idea.  Show the kids you will fight for them or something like that. 

Absolutely calculated. They wanted to show how much "fight and passion" they have. It looked fucking silly. The game was over. You lost. Don't act like a jackass at the end because of it.

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Vic Mackey

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2 minutes ago, Texas25 said:

I totally agree with the showing it in the game which we did in the 2nd half, but it's way better than Charlie Strong sitting over there with a deer and the headlights look like he doesn't know what the hell just happened.

I get that but it really does not matter at all. Herman and his staff did not have this team prepared at all from the opening drive. They scored TDs on two 4th downs. They let their QB school us on the same play over and over. I like passion too but that doesn't always equate results.

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chase25

chase25 2048

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Just now, Vic Mackey said:

I get that but it really does not matter at all. Herman and his staff did not have this team prepared at all from the opening drive. They scored TDs on two 4th downs. They let their QB school us on the same play over and over. I like passion too but that doesn't always equate results.

Again I'm not saying it gets results, all I'm saying is I don't understand why people are particularly been out of shape the first time we show some passion after a loss for the first time in 8 years. I agree we needed it the whole damn game.

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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

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lot of people shitting on gundy. wake up. he's a pretty damn good coach, and the guys has nuts. big ole brass balls. he was in his element tonight. he's kind of like a better, football version of tom penders. he's not the best coach in the country, but get him a home game with a great crowd and a national audience and he's going to go all gunslinger all over your ass for four hours. yeah, he might get beat at home by isu at noon on channel 158, but when he gets a bye week and a home game at 7pm vs Texas or OU you can guarantee that he's going balls out. It's kind of crazy how Texas fans shit on their own coaches for years for being conservative, but then we disrespect any coach who actually has the balls to wheel and deal. Gundy is a good coach, and it's not some big embarrassment to lose to him in this context. 

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goatsaag

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10 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

Because it's all for show. Fuck that. Use that energy during regulation and quit getting embarrassed all game long, especially Hager. The game was done with. I don't see the point. Herman was the classic case of "hold me back bro!". 

If Gundy can run to midfield screaming without a flag, Herman should be able to do the same.

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GlenFromTheMailRoom

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Just now, Goo Punch said:

lot of people shitting on gundy. wake up. he's a pretty damn good coach, and the guys has nuts. big ole brass balls. he was in his element tonight. he's kind of like a better, football version of tom penders. he's not the best coach in the country, but get him a home game with a great crowd and a national audience and he's going to go all gunslinger all over your ass for four hours. yeah, he might get beat at home by isu at noon on channel 158, but when he gets a bye week and a home game at 7pm vs Texas or OU you can guarantee that he's going balls out. It's kind of crazy how Texas fans shit on their own coaches for years for being conservative, but then we disrespect any coach who actually has the balls to wheel and deal. Gundy is a good coach, and it's not some big embarrassment to lose to him in this context. 

Goo fuck yourself

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Stilicho

Stilicho 1397

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15 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

dudes...these types of losses happen with crazy frequency. every year, in every conference. going on the road, at night, in conference, on national tv is a well known recipe for a loss. this is our first loss in conference play. the officiating was pretty terrible, some of our best players got suspended and then played like ass, our defensive players made a million individual errors, and we lost by three. this is normal. this is not a reason to panic, or to start shitting on the coaches. i mean shit, we were always going to lose at least one of osu/wvu/tech. we ain't some national powerhouse team just yet. we've been winning ball games a little bit ahead of schedule and tonight we lost. big fuckin deal. we've been recruiting well, we have a coach who seriously gives a shit, and we are legitimately better than most any of us thought we'd be at this point. we are going to take this shit out on wvu in a week and i am going to enjoy the shit out of it. tonight suuuucked, but this is college football. this happens. we're going to move on and move forward. wvu is fucked.

 

All of this might make a shit if we didn't have two fucking weeks to prepare.  This isn't losing to a top ten Toritllia U team in '08.  This is a crass abandoning of any sort of gameplan against a shit team.  Anything wrinkles Gundy may have come up with should have been shut down after the first quarter.  But, we remained shocked that Chris Weinke's homeless, gimpy ghost might possibly keep the ball on the ZR.  Repeatedly.

Scipio claims we have to pay a "Boyd Tax" every game.  Well, here's our "Herman Tax" for the season.

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UTEX_ME

UTEX_ME 4754

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3 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

lot of people shitting on gundy. wake up. he's a pretty damn good coach, and the guys has nuts. big ole brass balls. he was in his element tonight. he's kind of like a better, football version of tom penders. he's not the best coach in the country, but get him a home game with a great crowd and a national audience and he's going to go all gunslinger all over your ass for four hours. yeah, he might get beat at home by isu at noon on channel 158, but when he gets a bye week and a home game at 7pm vs Texas or OU you can guarantee that he's going balls out. It's kind of crazy how Texas fans shit on their own coaches for years for being conservative, but then we disrespect any coach who actually has the balls to wheel and deal. Gundy is a good coach, and it's not some big embarrassment to lose to him in this context. 

Gundy is the best thing OSU will ever have. They'd be retarded to get rid of him. Don't know why some OSU people get so angry with him. 

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Vic Mackey

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1 minute ago, Noah Fence said:

I’m glad you pussies complaining about the onside kick are not coaching. Do you not realize that you end up in basically the same position if it is not successful yet you at least have a chance to recover. 

Huh? Had we kicked it deep and held them, we get good field position when they punt only needing 3 to stay alive. You go for the onside and miss it, they are already across midfield. Make them go 3 and out and they pin us very deep. How is that the same position? That is a difference of about 30 yards, which is huge in that situation. Did you honestly expect us to recover that? Onsides only made sense if we had less than 3 timeouts or there was a lot less time left.

Anyways, I bitch even more about the tempo and playcalling of the drive that cut the lead to 3. Atrocious. Short passes in front of the sticks. Runs. No sense of urgency. We wasted waaaay too much time. Had we picked up the pace, we could have scored in a few less minutes. And the onside is not even a factor and we are in much better shape.

 

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Noah Fence

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2 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

Huh? Had we kicked it deep and held them, we get good field position when they punt only needing 3 to stay alive. You go for the onside and miss it, they are already across midfield. Make them go 3 and out and they pin us very deep. How is that the same position? That is a difference of about 30 yards, which is huge in that situation. Did you honestly expect us to recover that? Onsides only made sense if we had less than 3 timeouts or there was a lot less time left.

Anyways, I bitch even more about the tempo and playcalling of the drive that cut the lead to 3. Atrocious. Short passes in front of the sticks. Runs. No sense of urgency. We wasted waaaay too much time. Had we picked up the pace, we could have scored in a few less minutes. And the onside is not even a factor and we are in much better shape.

 

Ok.  Say we kick it deep the get it at the 25 and hold them. They punt. Where do you think we get it?  A fifty yard net punt gets us the 25.  How is that a 30 yard difference?

 

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Wishbone

Wishbone 4738

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An onside kick attempt is low percentage for getting the ball back. You have 3 timeouts. More than likely you’are going to need to use them whether you onside or kick away and you’re going to need a three and out either way. I think their offense plays more conservatively if we kick it away and get them on their end of the field as a turnover down there would be disastrous for them. Either way you need a 3 down stop, but a punt from them gives us a chance to get in range, or better with a good return. Setting them up on our end of the field with an onside kick failure changes the dynamics.

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C-Man

C-Man 27052

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I liked 1st half incensed Herman calling TO to let the refs have it for fucking blowing the simulated punt snap call. I did not like 2nd half incensed Herman completely losing his shit and rushing on the field. If the coach can’t stay in control, how can you expect your players to do the same?

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Vic Mackey

Vic Mackey 46936

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2 minutes ago, Noah Fence said:

Ok.  Say we kick it deep the get it at the 25 and hold them. They punt. Where do you think we get it?  A fifty yard net punt gets us the 25.  How is that a 30 yard difference?

 

His average was 45 and our average return was about in the 4 yard range but only because of that idiotic backwards return Jones had. Otherwise, he had a good return the first time. I am playing the averages that he is not going to net a 50 yard punt. You used that for your own benefit. So if you want to play that, how about he nails us inside our 5 yard line since they would be punting on our side of the field? That would be a huge difference to start there as opposed to about the 30 or 35. 

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Noah Fence

Noah Fence 480

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6 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

His average was 45 and our average return was about in the 4 yard range but only because of that idiotic backwards return Jones had. Otherwise, he had a good return the first time. I am playing the averages that he is not going to net a 50 yard punt. You used that for your own benefit. So if you want to play that, how about he nails us inside our 5 yard line since they would be punting on our side of the field? That would be a huge difference to start there as opposed to about the 30 or 35. 

Or how about he punts it the end zone?  So with the 45 average we might get it on the 30. 10 yards makes a shit of difference. We have no timeouts and either 45 or 55 to go to get into field goal position. It is worth it to onside kick. 

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TheYoungHorn

TheYoungHorn 57

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1 hour ago, mdmost said:

The onside was a stupid call. Kick it deep with 3 timeouts. Terrible idea.

Not near as stupid as taking  a TO with you to halftime when you HAVE THE BALL at midfield. 

The strategy and execution of the particular onside we can all agree was trash. But giving yourself an extra 20 percent chance of getting the ball back isn't something I would get super pissed about. 

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Vic Mackey

Vic Mackey 46936

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1 minute ago, Noah Fence said:

Or how about he punts it the end zone?  So with the 45 average we might get it on the 30. 10 yards makes a shit of difference. We have no timeouts and either 45 or 55 to go to get into field goal position. It is worth it to onside kick. 

That 45 is his average distance. Not counting the return. Them punting on their own end, we are most likely getting a return opportunity. Your scenario requires way too many what ifs to have a positive result. Mine doesn't. And you keep propping up your scenario for a best possible outcome.

Also, with my scenario, we could actually play for the win. You aren't playing for a win starting inside your own 10.

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