Tom "the turtle" Herman [Lame Duck or greatest 5d chess player ever?]

[Vic Mackey 46936]

1 minute ago, TheYoungHorn said:

Not near as stupid as taking  a TO with you to halftime when you HAVE THE BALL at midfield. 

The strategy and execution of the particular onside we can all agree was trash. But giving yourself an extra 20 percent chance of getting the ball back isn't something I would get super pissed about. 

Or an 80% chance you are going to be giving OSU the ball to start in your own territory. Yeah, I'm pissed about that. It was a dumb decision with all 3 timeouts left.

[bluto 4891]

kicking deep keeps the heat on em, a failed onside attempt means 4 down territory for them if 4th and short... it invites aggression. And speaking of the onside, did I really see cade brewer as the nearest Tx player to the ball? 

[NorthLoop 14091]

The onsides kick looked like the kicker decided to do it at the last second while not having ever done it before, while the rest of the team didn't even know he was doing it. That's about as bad as you can look on an onsides attempt. 

[David Dennison 18656]

49 minutes ago, UTEX_ME said:

 

Bold coming from a member of the 2010 team.

[NorthLoop 14091]

14 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Bold coming from a member of the 2010 team.

lol yup

[Helobious 9481]

1 hour ago, Texas25 said:

Why the hell are people mad at the way Herman and Hager were pissed at the end, about damn time we showed some fire after a loss, no more of this smile and shake hands after the game bull shit

Yeah fuck sportsmanship.

That was bush league shit by Hager, but the worst part of it is the guy he went after just threw him on the ground. If you're gonna go after a guy like that at least make sure you get a good shot in. Hager got punked. 

[Gaffords 755]

1 hour ago, Noah Fence said:

Ok.  Say we kick it deep the get it at the 25 and hold them. They punt. Where do you think we get it?  A fifty yard net punt gets us the 25.  How is that a 30 yard difference?

 

The odds at blocking a punt or forcing a shank with pressure is better than an onside recovery.  Onsides are used when you are in LITERAL hail mary mode.

[NorthLoop 14091]

13 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Yeah fuck sportsmanship.

That was bush league shit by Hager, but the worst part of it is the guy he went after just threw him on the ground. If you're gonna go after a guy like that at least make sure you get a good shot in. Hager got punked. 

lol yeah the little rb that Hager was talking shit to didn't even see him coming... then he bodyslams Hager... then Hager gets the personal foul call. That seriously couldn't have gone worse for him. 

 

He's a huge douche and contributes nothing to the team. His 8 giant missed tackles every game won't be missed. 

[Newdoc 3433]

7 hours ago, NoRagrets said:

Oh shut the fuck up you gaping pussy

[Surly Bevo 24696]

This thread, always smiling...judging, watching look at the baby.

[Get ln My Van 927]

I’m in the minority but I like what happened at the end of the game. He stood up for his player and showed how bad he wanted the fucking win.

I put this loss mainly on the players.

[TtomTerrific 200]

right call or wrong call, just how poorly that onside kick effort was executed cannot be overstated. 

 

[Rockethorn1978 6061]

Herman did this at Houston and here at Texas. Win the big game and disappear against a team you should beat, rinse, repeat. 

I'm confident at home against a team that's ranked, we will get up for that game but it's AT TECH where I see us coming out looking like dog shit. Hopefully Tech beats ou so they will maybe be ranked and we will come in hyped.

[Hamttx 419]

Actually, this was a prime example of Herman’s legacy up to this point. Beat a quality team, then drop a WTF effort. 

He has done this a number of times during his career. Though in fairness it is still a small sample size. 

You can pick apart this one game play by play if it makes you feel better. But in the end it is just another example of Herman’s biggest flaw. And that is losing a game when you have better players.

[Hamttx 419]

Rocket cut me by a hair...

[El Hornarino 368]

Lotta ins, lotta outs, lotta whathaveyous.

I would have probably kicked deep, at least if I knew that the team never really practiced an onside kick that wasn't a noodle legged attempt directly to the nearest okie.

[Dbeasy 14967]

After sleeping off the whisky, here is what isn’t adding up for me.

It is obvious that the staff prepares special game plans and schemes for top games. Great, it’s how Herman is working his magic and gives us all hope for the future.

The concern isn’t last night’s game. Of course shit happens every week in college football. Purdue just destroyed Ohio State. TCU just lost to Kansas. If that is all you see, then you are missing the issue. The problem is the consistently poor play against many or most inferior teams: Maryland, Tulsa, Kansas St, etc.

You can say that we don’t yet have the talent to be consistently good, but to consistently under-perform against teams that clearly have inferior talent is what’s puzzling. If Herman is such a great X and O guy, then he shouldn’t ever be getting out coached. So what really is happening?

I’m not saying we have the wrong coach. I’m questioning what is wrong. Here are the reasons I can think of that are legitimate:

1. Under preparation - the staff actually dogs it during weeks against lesser teams. Why? They are either lazy, unfocused or purposely trying to save too much for big games.

2. Attitudes - everyone on the team dogs it during prep for lesser opponents because they are idiots.

3. Line and LB Gaps - while we have great talent at many positions, like WR, DB we are actually really really weak talent-wise on the lines and at some of the LB positions. In my opinion, this is true and explains part of the reason, but not all, for why we play down to weaker teams.

4. Schemes - OU and other teams that have great offensive schemes will blow out inferior opponents. Teams that run okay but not great offensives schemes will lose one or two games per year against inferior opponents due to the “shit happens” factor every year. Jim Tressel’s teams used to do that a lot. During Mack Brown’s great run, he got really lucky a lot in close games. A lot.

Similarly, there might be be an issue with our defensive scheme that causes inconsistent play against inferior talent, but I can’t see why that would be the case.

Herman has a solid excuse for #3, but not for any of the others. So, when do we stop sucking against the Maryland’s of the world? Next year?

[Liquor and Poker 3659]

I still say it’s spelled “whiskey.” We beat them in 2 wars. 

[ImissWallyPryor 9045]

9 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

Huh? Had we kicked it deep and held them, we get good field position when they punt only needing 3 to stay alive. You go for the onside and miss it, they are already across midfield. Make them go 3 and out and they pin us very deep. How is that the same position? That is a difference of about 30 yards, which is huge in that situation. Did you honestly expect us to recover that? Onsides only made sense if we had less than 3 timeouts or there was a lot less time left.

Anyways, I bitch even more about the tempo and playcalling of the drive that cut the lead to 3. Atrocious. Short passes in front of the sticks. Runs. No sense of urgency. We wasted waaaay too much time. Had we picked up the pace, we could have scored in a few less minutes. And the onside is not even a factor and we are in much better shape.

 

fewer

Edited October 28, 2018 by ImissWallyPryor

[MonkeyDoughnut 10145]

 

 

[gmr548 16511]

I get that you can't win them all. Sometimes your opponent plays really well and you just have to tip the cap. OSU did play a good game, so credit where it's due, but that wasn't the case last night, for Maryland (x2), for Tech last year... We are consistently embarrassed by objectively inferior opponents. Not beaten. Embarassed. He obviously isn't getting fired any time soon after going 9-3 This year with a possible B12 CCG berth but I'm pretty comfortable in saying he isn't the guy. Getting through the kind of schedule we play with 0-2 losses just isn't gonna happen under him.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Guest]

10 hours ago, mdmost said:

The onside was a stupid call. Kick it deep with 3 timeouts. Terrible idea.

Absolutely. 

Did anyone think we got fucked on OSU clock operator from 2:44 to 1:45?  

[Knoxtnhorn 5929]

1)  Per the onside.  Would it not be just about as effective to pooch the ball over the line but before, what I'm assuming, was 1 guy in return?  Onside recovery odds are 19% (according to yesterday's graphic).  Surely they wouldn't go down too much by trying this.  In addition, you'd pin them back another 30 yards if they recover.

2)  Why does Ingram come in and out of my life like a long lost lover?  I was a little out of it last night, so my memory may be off.  It seemed like he didn't come in until the 2nd qtr, tore it up, hit the bench, made a nice TD catch later in the game, hit the bench again.  If he's injured; he's injured.  If not, for the love of God, get him on the field.  I'm tired of Porter and Watson with their 2 ypc average.  

[Knoxtnhorn 5929]

YPC

Ingram 5.9

Watson 3.7

Young 3.8

Young and Watson have 129 carries to Ingram's 77.

[SilasCoade 2620]

8 hours ago, Helobious said:

Yeah fuck sportsmanship.

That was bush league shit by Hager, but the worst part of it is the guy he went after just threw him on the ground. If you're gonna go after a guy like that at least make sure you get a good shot in. Hager got punked. 

Hager went at the guy but actually didn't do anything outside the rules. He maybe kept playing two steps after the whistle but it's not like he tried to blindside the guy or rip his helmet off. Herman was right to be pissed that Gundy didn't draw a flag for running onto the field when that could have potentially inflamed the whole situation. Team sees coach running out there and the bench follows him on instinct? World of shit and irresponsible by Gundy.

 

When I resurrected the thread at halftime I was half joking. I'm still impressed with the improvement this season, especially on offense, but to come off a bye week and lay that kind of egg on defense, even without two starting DBs, is a sign of deficient coaching. Inferior team, homecoming, night game and you don't have your guys ready to go?

[bluto 4891]

I assumed he was hurt last night then there he is back in in the final minutes. No clue

[taybo20 2815]

8 minutes ago, Knoxtnhorn said:

1)  Per the onside.  Would it not be just about as effective to pooch the ball over the line but before, what I'm assuming, was 1 guy in return?  Onside recovery odds are 19% (according to yesterday's graphic).  Surely they wouldn't go down too much by trying this.  In addition, you'd pin them back another 30 yards if they recover.

2)  Why does Ingram come in and out of my life like a long lost lover?  I was a little out of it last night, so my memory may be off.  It seemed like he didn't come in until the 2nd qtr, tore it up, hit the bench, made a nice TD catch later in the game, hit the bench again.  If he's injured; he's injured.  If not, for the love of God, get him on the field.  I'm tired of Porter and Watson with their 2 ypc average.  

1) Yeah I would have kicked deep holding 3 TO's. The other issue is on a 4th and short, you are just asking them to go for it because they are already on your side of the field. Give them only 3 downs. And finally field position overall. You will end up having 0 timeouts, so why you should hope for a short punt to give yourself the shortest field possible if they are on their own side of the field. 

2) Herman has said he was limiting some playing time. I think maybe his last Monday presser. Herman talked about how Ingram came in the fall, and he doesn't want him worn out. I understand, but it's clear he's the star so he needs to be playing. 

[chase25 2048]

9 hours ago, Helobious said:

Yeah fuck sportsmanship.

That was bush league shit by Hager, but the worst part of it is the guy he went after just threw him on the ground. If you're gonna go after a guy like that at least make sure you get a good shot in. Hager got punked. 

You think sportsmanship actually goes on on the field lol. You know the kind of shit that is said back and forth throughout the game. The guy was running his mouth at Hager. Sportsmanship is one of the dumbest most trivial things in sports. Winner, celebrate with your team, loser get off the field.

[ImissWallyPryor 9045]

9 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Bold coming from a member of the 2010 team.

I’ve always liked Sam better than Emmanuel. Baby bro is irritating, but that’s just how little brothers are. 

[Helobious 9481]

7 minutes ago, Texas25 said:

You think sportsmanship actually goes on on the field lol. You know the kind of shit that is said back and forth throughout the game. The guy was running his mouth at Hager. Sportsmanship is one of the dumbest most trivial things in sports. Winner, celebrate with your team, loser get off the field.

You’ve either never played sports or are a teenager. 

What exactly did Hager accomplish by getting choke-slammed by the guy he went at?

[chase25 2048]

1 minute ago, Helobious said:

You’ve either never played sports or are a teenager. 

What exactly did Hager accomplish by getting choke-slammed by the guy he went at?

The fact that you think "sportsmanship" actually exists is comical. This argument is rich coming from a Yankees fan nonetheless. Hager pushed the kid back a solid 5 yards before the guy just used his momentum against him you dumbass. The guy grabbed him around the neck and just pushed him to the ground after he got pushed 5 yards off of where he began the play. He didn't choke slam shit.

[Helobious 9481]

Just now, Texas25 said:

The fact that you think "sportsmanship" actually exists is comical. This argument is rich coming from a Yankees fan nonetheless. Hager pushed the kid back a solid 5 yards before the guy just used his momentum against him you dumbass. The guy grabbed him around the neck and just pushed him to the ground after he got pushed 5 yards off of where he began the play. He didn't choke slam shit.

Sure, there’s never been one example of sportsmanship ever in history. You’re right tough guy. No post game handshakes, no one’s ever helped on opponent off the turf, no respect has ever been shown, no post game joint-team prayers have ever happened.

Wow, he pushed the guy he surprise attacked backwards 5 yards before getting spun around, grabbed by the neck, and tossed to the ground. Clearly a victory for Hager. Watch the replay and you’ll see Hager gets up and immediately sprints away from the confrontation. The OSU players had to hold back that little RB, no longhorns had to hold back Hager. If he was so tough he would’ve went right back at the guy he was trying to get. He acted like a bitch.

[SilasCoade 2620]

2 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Sure, there’s never been one example of sportsmanship ever in history. You’re right tough guy. No post game handshakes, no one’s ever helped on opponent off the turf, no respect has ever been shown, no post game joint-team prayers have ever happened.

Wow, he pushed the guy he surprise attacked backwards 5 yards before getting spun around, grabbed by the neck, and tossed to the ground. Clearly a victory for Hager. Watch the replay and you’ll see Hager gets up and immediately sprints away from the confrontation. The OSU players had to hold back that little RB, no longhorns had to hold back Hager. If he was so tough he would’ve went right back at the guy he was trying to get. He acted like a bitch.

It was no surprise attack. He was talking and pointing him out before the snap. Letting him know he was coming. As far as going away from the confrontation, you would rather he had started a brawl like a bitch?

[RomaVicta 29784]

10 hours ago, Slade said:

I also thought they should have kicked it deep because of the 3 timeouts, but hell we couldn't stop their lanky slow ass QB on those keepers all night. 

Pain. Incomprehensible failure to account for him after his first run. I would love it/hate it if a football scholar could break down a few of those plays explaining the responsibilities of the defenders. Otherwise, I am the above.

[Hook1997 5287]

We ran our 4th quarter with the lead offense in the 1st quarter....   That’s why we lost, when Herman goes conservative on play calling we get shit

[chase25 2048]

Just now, Helobious said:

Sure, there’s never been one example of sportsmanship ever in history. You’re right tough guy. No post game handshakes, no one’s ever helped on opponent off the turf, no respect has ever been shown, no post game joint-team prayers have ever happened.

Wow, he pushed the guy he surprise attacked backwards 5 yards before getting spun around, grabbed by the neck, and tossed to the ground. Clearly a victory for Hager. Watch the replay and you’ll see Hager gets up and immediately sprints away from the confrontation. The OSU players had to hold back that little RB, no longhorns had to hold back Hager. If he was so tough he would’ve went right back at the guy he was trying to get. He acted like a bitch.

Yeah, you're a dumb ass, are there instances of sportsmanship? Yeah, but most of it is a facade. Taunt somebody and call them a bitch the whole game then after that game "oh hey man great game".

You didn't watch the play at all, the guy knew Hager was coming, he was running his mouth at Hager so Hager pointed at him to indicate he was coming, came at him and pushed him back 5 yards before the kid used his momentum against him, turned him and pushed him to the ground. After that, yeah I expact Hager to get out of there because he was in their backfield, what is he going to do, take on their whole team.

Again this sportsmanship argument is really rich coming from a Yankees fan.

[ImissWallyPryor 9045]

1 hour ago, Rex Kramer said:

Absolutely. 

Did anyone think we got fucked on OSU clock operator from 2:44 to 1:45?  

I don’t have it on the  DVR. What did you see?

[Irish Wrist Watch 1349]

Even the most perfectly executed onside kick has about a forty percent chance of working. This was a poorly executed one. It had maybe a five percent chance of working. On the other hand, you pin your opponent inside his twenty with a nice squib, you stuff him on two running plays then force him to pass, anything can happen.

 

That's why a good coach will always call for kicking away in that situation. Herman's young, and although he should have already learned this lesson, hopefully he has it now. It's like Garrett not knowing when to use a time out. In Garrett's case it is understandable - he's a dumb shit, but I'll give Herman a one time pass for being relatively inexperienced. I suppose you could say the same for having two inept punt returners - one who apparently was never told that under no circumstances do you field a fucking punt inside the five.

 

Get this shit outta your system, Mensa.

Edited October 28, 2018 by Irish Wrist Watch

[OU Sucks 8746]

Two things I don't get...not taking a shot at the end of the first half. If questioned, Herman will say "and if it goes back for a pick 6, we're down 24".  Well, the odds of that are really low, and with our tall receivers, we have a chance at scoring if Sam just throws a jump ball.  And secondly, putting Daniel Young in when we were pinned against our goal line.  Who didn't see that drive going nowhere with him in the game?  I think Herman has it in his mind that Young is our tough, goal line back, when he's basically become Kyle Porter 2.0.  Does Keontay fumble a lot in practice?  I don't understand why we don't have our best RB in the game when it's crucial we pick up yards.

Edited October 28, 2018 by OU Sucks

[Irish Wrist Watch 1349]

And one other fucking thing: we stop those bastards on third and goal, they kick a field goal and we likely win that game. How the hell did they not know the QB was going to keep that ball? 75% chance.

[VaHorn 105]

And we have a zero chance of getting the ball back if the defense can’t stop them for three plays. I will take the 5% odds. 

[Hook1997 5287]

This is a Mack situation but much worse.  With Herman’s play calling whenever they have a lead or to start games and lack of figuring out how to use the talent on offense till 4 games in....  Unless we get a Vince he and his coaching will never sniff the playoffs 

[Irish Wrist Watch 1349]

3 minutes ago, VaHorn said:

And we have a zero chance of getting the ball back if the defense can’t stop them for three plays. I will take the 5% odds. 

Conversely, you have to stop them either way. Objectively - you ain't getting that onside kick. Not the way we do it. So you kick deep and stop 'em and get the ball likely near midfield.

 

Had the Horns worked hard at getting the two-bounce/high second bounce onsider, then it might have been worth the risk.

[RockyMountainHighHorn 890]

I agree with getting screwed. Why didn't the clock stop both times we ran out of bounds?

[OU Sucks 8746]

5 minutes ago, Irish Wrist Watch said:

And one other fucking thing: we stop those bastards on third and goal, they kick a field goal and we likely win that game. How the hell did they not know the QB was going to keep that ball? 75% chance.

Speaking of their QB, how does Okie Lite continually get 40 year olds onto campus to play on their football team?  He looks like Brandon Weeden's dad.

[Bill Lumbergh 7170]

1 minute ago, VaHorn said:

And we have a zero chance of getting the ball back if the defense can’t stop them for three plays. I will take the 5% odds. 

Teams are easier to stop on three plays inside their own 30 than on your side of the fifty.  It's just true.  Teams and coaches play a much more conservative game pinned in their own end of the field.

That's the main reason I favored punting.  I knew their offense would play more loose on our side of the field, and they did. 

Truth is, we mismanaged the clock on our last offensive drive which made both options not great.  Hopefully we practice that scenario more bc we did not look like a team who knew how to manage needing two scores in five minutes. 

[williemackgarza 1826]

Mensa tries to overthink shit too much. End of first half, with that score, you have to try and get any points you can especially with a TO in your pocket. End of game, with that much time left, you kick it deep and try and get a stop. Gundy outcoached our staff no doubt with an inferior team.

And the hager shit at the end was bush league bullshit, TTLP!

They were running out the clock. Bastard deserves a suspension and herman doing the whole hold me back bro,shit cursing on national tv was just plain embarrassing and not a good look. Gundy was the bigger man (yeah, think about that statement) and tried to bail him out saying it was a misunderstanding. CDC has to have a serious conversation with TH. That kid sore loser shit is not acceptable for a man pilling in $5 mil a year and was embarrassing as fuck, lookin all aggy.

 

[Helobious 9481]

28 minutes ago, Llogg said:

It was no surprise attack. He was talking and pointing him out before the snap. Letting him know he was coming. As far as going away from the confrontation, you would rather he had started a brawl like a bitch?

That's actually a good point. He would've been a bitch to go back and start a brawl. Instead he got thrown down and ran away like a real man. 

[chase25 2048]

2 minutes ago, williemackgarza said:

Mensa tries to overthink shit too much. End of first half, with that score, you have to try and get any points you can especially with a TO in your pocket. End of game, with that much time left, you kick it deep and try and get a stop. Gundy outcoached our staff no doubt with an inferior team.

And the hager shit at the end was bush league bullshit, TTLP!

They were running out the clock. Bastard deserves a suspension and herman doing the whole hold me back bro,shit cursing on national tv was just plain embarrassing and not a good look. Gundy was the bigger man (yeah, think about that statement) and tried to bail him out saying it was a misunderstanding. CDC has to have a serious conversation with TH. That kid sore loser shit is not acceptable for a man pilling in $5 mil a year and was embarrassing as fuck, lookin all aggy.

 

Lol

[VaHorn 105]

3 hours ago, Irish Wrist Watch said:

Conversely, you have to stop them either way. Objectively - you ain't getting that onside kick. Not the way we do it. So you kick deep and stop 'em and get the ball likely near midfield.

 

Had the Horns worked hard at getting the two-bounce/high second bounce onsider, then it might have been worth the risk.

I saw nothing that gave me any confidence we would stop them either way. So we one chance. Recovering the kick. A 20% chance to have a chance win. Of course, when we demonstrated that we were not capable of executing an onside kick it became academic.