Tom "the turtle" Herman [Lame Duck or greatest 5d chess player ever?]

[Guest Lobo]

1 hour ago, A’Dam Psycho said:

This site sucks Riley’s dick so much

I don't know that it's dick-sucking.  And the guy inherited a helluva lot better program than Herman did.  But Riley is averaging 2 losses/season, Herman is averaging 5 losses/season.  Now Riley is 0-3 in bowls, Herman is 3-0 in bowls.  But keep in mind, all three OU bowl losses came in the CFP and Riley has 3 Top 10 finishes to his credit, twice in the Top 4.  Riley also has 3 Big XII Championships (I'm a well-documented believer that conference hardware still means something in today's game).  And Riley has won all that for just $1m/year more than we're paying Herman.  

OU sucks, but they win shit.  Now Bob Stoops eats bags of Riley dick on the weekends.  Only reason he still shows up for the fair is for those Riley shaped corndogs.  

[6th Street 6,653]

Riley calls his own plays and has been producing ridiculous video game type offenses. He has won the Big 12 in each of his first 3 seasons and gone to the playoff every year.

Herman outsourced the job to Beck who sucked ass and was later demoted. Herman takes over for Beck and Iowa State knows every play we're running and Baylor almost shut us out.

Baylor got lucky with the Matt Rhule hire, and hoping we can do the same once Herman is shown the door. 

[Longboard Horn 41,316]

The problem with Tom is inconsistency. That has plagued him his entire head coaching career. Look at Houston: lost to an inferior UConn team in 2015, then played great against OU, but played like utter dog shit against SMU and Navy. 
At Texas: last season especially, how is it that you played well against LSU(who ended up winning the national championship), Utah and OU, but then play like dog shit against Iowa State and TCU? With a senior Sam, new OC and DC and other impact players, Herman has all the pieces that he needs for a legit run at the CCG this year. If it doesn’t happen for Tom this season, then it’ll never happen. 

[Shaggy3.0 1,695]

Fools Gold from Day 1.

[6th Street 6,653]

9 minutes ago, Shaggy3.0 said:

Fools Gold from Day 1.

Sadly this - he is another Kevin Sumlin 

[LTtxfan 49,907]

This Fuckin thread...

 

 

 

Edited July 20, 2020 by LTtxfan

[Stunns38 3,763]

Dp.

[Stunns38 3,763]

At Texas: last season especially, how is it that you played well against LSU(who ended up winning the national championship), Utah and OU, but then play like dog shit against Iowa State and TCU? With a senior Sam, new OC and DC and other impact players, Herman has all the pieces that he needs for a legit run at the CCG this year. If it doesn’t happen for Tom this season, then it’ll never happen. 

We played like shit vs OU, final score was deceptive

[USNALonghorn 5,155]

16 hours ago, immamac said:

Never not had a 1st round draft pick.

27 players in the NFL who make rosters.

10 of which are still starters or top tier contributors.  

 

These points actually help the argument that he walked into a much better situation than TH. 
 

Either way, this debate is not about who’s the better of TH and Riley. TH is 1-3 against him and by now has had plenty of time to catch up roster/talent wise. The point is that Riley is as much of a throwaway hire as Herman has demonstrated to be.
 

The only significance of winning a conference championship is that it provides you a more direct path to the playoff. That’s it. Nobody should fucking care otherwise. If you consistently fail to be even competitive on the national stage, you are not a national caliber coach. 
 

Riley is a lot like a military leader who can win many battles, but has a lot of issues with the whole winning the war thing.

 

[BurntOrange&White 41,646]

This site sucks Riley’s dick so much

It would be nice if we could suck our own coaches dick but here we are.


We’ve been dog shit at hiring coaches since DKR, minus Mack, thanks Vince.


We need to get better at evaluating coaches and get rid of this he needs to be a politician shit we think our coaches have to be.

[BurntOrange&White 41,646]

These points actually help the argument that he walked into a much better situation than TH. 
 
Either way, this debate is not about who’s the better of TH and Riley. TH is 1-3 against him and by now has had plenty of time to catch up roster/talent wise. The point is that Riley is as much of a throwaway hire as Herman has demonstrated to be.
 
The only significance of winning a conference championship is that it provides you a more direct path to the playoff. That’s it. Nobody should fucking care otherwise. If you consistently fail to be even competitive on the national stage, you are not a national caliber coach. 
 
Riley is a lot like a military leader who can win many battles, but has a lot of issues with the whole winning the war thing.
 

This is a bad take and you should feel bad.

[TXpride 605]

I'll wait until the end of the season to take a definitive stance. I don't know if Tom is "the guy" (unlikely, since there have only been 2 in the history of the program), but he's built a solid foundation. The roster is in the best shape it's been in a decade. Now you could say that any dumbass should be able to build a talented roster at Texas, and I won't argue with that... but at the very least, he's done a better job than late Mack/Charlie (not saying much, I know). This season (if it happens) will tell us everything we need to know. I wouldn't be shocked if we made a run to the playoff, in which case the "Fire Herman" crowd all look like idiots; I also wouldn't be surprised by another 8-5 showing. We shall (hopefully) see.

[TXpride 605]

I will say this with regard to Herman vs. Riley: I know who I'd rather have coaching a playoff game. The question is if he can actually get there.

[6th Street 6,653]

22 minutes ago, USNALonghorn said:

These points actually help the argument that he walked into a much better situation than TH. 
 

Either way, this debate is not about who’s the better of TH and Riley. TH is 1-3 against him and by now has had plenty of time to catch up roster/talent wise. The point is that Riley is as much of a throwaway hire as Herman has demonstrated to be.
 

The only significance of winning a conference championship is that it provides you a more direct path to the playoff. That’s it. Nobody should fucking care otherwise. If you consistently fail to be even competitive on the national stage, you are not a national caliber coach. 
 

Riley is a lot like a military leader who can win many battles, but has a lot of issues with the whole winning the war thing.

 

Lulz. Riley has only been a head coach for 3 years and been to the playoff every single one of those years. In what world is that a "throwaway" hire???

[Jkwellborn 7,006]

Lulz. Riley has only been a head coach for 3 years and been to the playoff every single one of those years. In what world is that a "throwaway" hire???

Most likely the same world that aggy is winning championships in.

[bschoolprof 6,335]

11 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

This Fuckin thread...

 

Not just this thread . . . really this applies to Texas Football for over a decade now.  Hence, this thread.  

[Steamboat1874 4,280]

17 hours ago, ztejas said:

Exactly. Mack Brown was never a good coach. All he did was put a bunch of gangsters and badass winners on the field and got them to consistently kick the shit out of lesser teams. 

Not only is thread really stupid but saying Mack Brown was never a good coach is about the dumbest thing on this entire thread.

Get a fucking clue.

[ztejas 44,114]

7 minutes ago, Steamboat1874 said:

Not only is thread really stupid but saying Mack Brown was never a good coach is about the dumbest thing on this entire thread.

Get a fucking clue.

Right... Look at the comment I replied to. 

[Longboard Horn 41,316]

11 hours ago, BurntEyes said:

You are dead wrong on one point. He is extremely consistent.

Every single year, as a head coach, he's lost at least one game he shouldn't have where his team as an overwhelming favorite. 

Every. Single. Year.

I stand corrected. By inconsistency, I meant inconsistent games with good play calling and performance.

[Patricio Swayze 17,058]

So what y’all are saying is co-head coaches.

[Gene Parmesan 4,062]

Give me Herman.  Saves room in the trophy case for swimming.  

[Eggo 4,026]

1 hour ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Give me Herman.  Saves room in the trophy case for swimming.  

[Tex Long 4,613]

Let's get the  guy from Pulaski Academy and drop Cuz and Dicker.

[USNALonghorn 5,155]

16 hours ago, 6th Street said:

Lulz. Riley has only been a head coach for 3 years and been to the playoff every single one of those years. In what world is that a "throwaway" hire???

In the same world where OU solidifies it’s reputation as a paper tiger. 
 

I don’t see LR as a legitimate upgrade to what we’re stuck with.

[A’Dam Psycho 1,490]

Riley has simply had to not fuck up a rolling train with Heisman caliber QBs handed to him. Bravo good for him. Herman has to rebuild a program that’s been shit for 7 years with soft players and a loser’s mentality. We’re three years removed from 3 straight losing seasons and losing to a 2 win Kansas team. Not leaning towards Herman or Riley one way or another but it’s not as black and white as this site seems to believe. I think they’re very close

[Blotto 23,974]

2 hours ago, USNALonghorn said:

I don’t see LR as a legitimate upgrade to what we’re stuck with.

If not for a game winning FG as time expired against f'n Kansas, at DKR no less, we would have finished with a 6-6 regular season record in year 3 of the Herman experiment.  Seems like a toss-up to me. 

 

 

[A’Dam Psycho 1,490]

1 minute ago, Blotto said:

If not for a game winning FG as time expired against f'n Kansas, at DKR no less, we would have finished with a 6-6 regular season record in year 3 of the Herman experiment.  Seems like a toss-up to me. 

 

 

Yeah with a million injuries 

[A’Dam Psycho 1,490]

11 hours ago, Steamboat1874 said:

Not only is thread really stupid but saying Mack Brown was never a good coach is about the dumbest thing on this entire thread.

Get a fucking clue.

Mack Brown was a great ceo coach much like Orgeron has learned to be. Thinking he’s any more than that is reaching. Herman has yet to get ass blasted by OU by 50+ pts. 

[OU Sucks 9,325]

23 minutes ago, Blotto said:

If not for a game winning FG as time expired against f'n Kansas, at DKR no less, we would have finished with a 6-6 regular season record in year 3 of the Herman experiment.  Seems like a toss-up to me.

But if we're going to play the "what if" game, I'll remind you that we got Assalley'd at ISU as time expired.  I think my hypothetical win against ISU balances out your hypothetical loss against Kansas is Hopeless, which brings us back to a regular season of 7-6 (8-6 overall).

Edited July 21, 2020 by OU Sucks

[BradInATX 9,208]

13 hours ago, Jkwellborn said:

Most likely the same world that aggy is winning championships in.

It really is.

If you asked 1,000 non-Texas/non-OU fans which could they would prefer to have for their team, 1,000 of them would say Lincoln Riley. If you google rankings from all of the sports publications, he's in the top 5 in every single one, and I think you'd be extraordinarily hard-pressed to find five better than him even if you went in with bias. You certainly won't find 10 better.

I would trade every single person that works for Texas football, including all of our upperclassmen and coaches, for Lincoln Riley. And I would put every dollar I own down on a bet that we would be better three years after that ridiculous hypothetical trade that we will be in three years with Herman.

"He has his program in the top four every single year but just can't get past the #1 team in the country every year after three years!! What a scrub!". 

Dumbest shit ever. He's turned down multiple NFL offers, if we're to believe the rumors. He's a tremendous coach. One of the best in the country.

Edited July 21, 2020 by BradInATX

[A’Dam Psycho 1,490]

3 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

I would trade every single person that works for Texas football, including all of our upperclassmen and coaches, for Lincoln Riley.

Oh gawd how does Riley’s dick taste? 

[BradInATX 9,208]

4 minutes ago, A’Dam Psycho said:

Oh gawd how does Riley’s dick taste? 

No idea, but I do know what 15 losses in three seasons tastes like.

Edited July 21, 2020 by BradInATX

[Guest Lobo]

Well based on the media poll of the Big 12 this year and who plays us where...it would seem like we'd be odds-on favorites to finish 7-2 (losses to OKL & OSU).  And 9-3 overall.  So that's something.  Because paying $6mm/year for 5 losses/year after 3 years is getting fucking exhausting.  

[A’Dam Psycho 1,490]

2 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

No idea, but I do know what 15 losses in three seasons tastes like.

You’d trade all of our upperclassman and coaches for a coach that lost 63-28 in a big game? Cool story

[BradInATX 9,208]

2 minutes ago, A’Dam Psycho said:

You’d trade all of our upperclassman and coaches for a coach that lost 63-28 in a big game? Cool story

Yes, I'd trade two years of pain to almost assuredly be in the CFP picture every single year in 3-4 years. I like watching Texas win. You wouldn't?

Edited July 21, 2020 by BradInATX

[Not a cat 5,804]

Wait, some people are honestly saying they wouldn't straight up trade Herman for Riley?  I'm not gonna go to the hyperbolic lengths of BradinATX, but I make that trade every time. 

He'd have already had Ehlinger in NY for the Heisman ceremony at least once.  I'm not saying he's the next Saban but I guarantee he's not turtling up trying to protect a lead with 4:00 left in Ames.

[TXpride 605]

Riley is a great offensive mind, but he could just as easily be the next Mark Helfrich as the next Knute Rockne. OU should've been about 8-4 last year. You look at some of the games they've squeaked out in his tenure, combined with the ass-rapings they've taken in the playoffs, and suddenly he's not such a sure thing. This season (if/when it actually happens) will tell us a lot about both Riley and Herman. By year 4, it's all on the current head coach.

[A’Dam Psycho 1,490]

13 minutes ago, Not a cat said:

Wait, some people are honestly saying they wouldn't straight up trade Herman for Riley?  I'm not gonna go to the hyperbolic lengths of BradinATX, but I make that trade every time. 

He'd have already had Ehlinger in NY for the Heisman ceremony at least once.  I'm not saying he's the next Saban but I guarantee he's not turtling up trying to protect a lead with 4:00 left in Ames.

I would much rather find a coach that can elevate us to Riley or higher level than trade for him tbh. I’m not overly enthusiastic about a coach that gets ass blasted 63-28. Hell the Kstate loss was worse than the score indicates.

[Not a cat 5,804]

3 minutes ago, A’Dam Psycho said:

I would much rather find a coach that can elevate us to Riley or higher level than trade for him tbh. I’m not overly enthusiastic about a coach that gets ass blasted 63-28. Hell the Kstate loss was worse than the score indicates.

Fair enough, but in a hypothetical binary choice of Herman or Riley, who do you take?  The choice is pretty easy IMO.  I hope in 5 years you guys are digging this post up and laughing at me, but nothing I've seen so far changes my conclusion.

[USNALonghorn 5,155]

Riley inherited a well oiled machine. All he’s had to do was keep up the trend that was already there.

 

Riley can field and all world offense, but completely neglects the other side of the ball. His teams can dominate weaker opposition, but completely crumble when they face physicality. Riley’s teams are the epitome of “soft”.

 

No one in their right mind is saying that Tom Herman is the outright better coach. It’s just a bit paradoxical to see the same people that have criticized the TH hire as dumpster diving wish for Riley to be his replacement. Raise the bar.
 

It’s cool that he’s managed to backdoor his way into the CFPs, but year after year he resoundingly proves that he doesn’t belong. I’d rather have TH as my coach in a big stage game 10 times out of 10.

 

 

[Jkwellborn 7,006]

Riley helped make that well oiled machine.

[BradInATX 9,208]

28 minutes ago, A’Dam Psycho said:

I would much rather find a coach that can elevate us to Riley or higher level than trade for him tbh. I’m not overly enthusiastic about a coach that gets ass blasted 63-28. Hell the Kstate loss was worse than the score indicates.

Yeah, every single one of us would love to have a coach even better than Riley. Unfortunately we already tried and failed to get Saban and it's unlikely we'd get Dabo.

"I definitely wouldn't want possibly the third best coach in CFB because I only want #1 or #2" is the hottest of hot takes. 

[USNALonghorn 5,155]

23 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

First, I haven't seen anyone say Riley is their top pick of any head coach for Texas, just that they would prefer him to Herman. Even you don't seem to refute that reality.

Next, back door into the CFP? Do you actually believe the Big XII champ doesn't belong in the CFP particularly with only one or two losses? I want you to type that you actually believe that line of thinking.

Finally, there is a cross over point in the River Denial where you go from being a homer to straight being delusional. That is also know as the aggy line. You're currently on the fucking border and some others have already gone full Smokey over the line and crossed that fucking demarcation of sadness.

Raise the bar, bud.

[stone oak 639]

Wait, people exist who wouldn’t trade Herman for Riley straight up? 

[TXpride 605]

34 minutes ago, Jkwellborn said:

Riley helped make that well oiled machine.

Herman helped make the well-oiled machine in Columbus, FWIW.

[USNALonghorn 5,155]

34 minutes ago, Jkwellborn said:

Riley helped make that well oiled machine.

TH helped make Ohio St a well oiled machine and actually won something in the process, if we’re going to use that as a comparison tool.

[Not a cat 5,804]

8 minutes ago, stone oak said:

Wait, people exist who wouldn’t trade Herman for Riley straight up? 

They're called Sooners.

[USNALonghorn 5,155]

3 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

I see you decided to avoid my questions and come back with a super snappy retort. 

Riley would be a substantial raising of the bar over Herman. Hell, a lot of coaches would.

But I see your methods of engagement. Did you get a notification from Katie before appearing here?

Not really snappy. Just acknowledging a much different perspective than yours. 

Yes, playing a soft Big 12 schedule and sometimes getting help from the refs on many questionable calls is what I define as a backdoor entry into the CFP. The Sooners should have been 9-3 last year and their pathetic semifinal performance only proved that point. 

The year prior they got badly beaten by a Bama team that went on to get resoundingly skullfucked in the championship game. 

If you want to romanticize about a bunch of fucking Big 12 trophies with nothing but embarrassment on the national stage to go with it, then you do you. Small tactical victories are meaningless when faced with humiliating strategic defeat. That's just how I look at the situation up north.

There is absolutely nothing substantially superior about a one dimensional head coach. In fact, the poster that made the Fred Akers comparison is probably spot on.

And if LR manages to win a single playoff game in the next 2-3 football seasons, I'll come back and (not so happily) eat my fucking crow. 

[Burt Macklin 19,209]

Holy shit. There’s a lot of stupid in this thread. Riley’s a better coach than Herman, and it’s not very close. People talking about what Tiley inherited ignore that he built that juggernaut fo an offense, and it’s not like he inherited a good defense or a good DC. 
 

6 hours ago, Lobo said:

Well based on the media poll of the Big 12 this year and who plays us where...it would seem like we'd be odds-on favorites to finish 7-2 (losses to OKL & OSU).  And 9-3 overall.  So that's something.  Because paying $6mm/year for 5 losses/year after 3 years is getting fucking exhausting.  

Assuming for a second we get a full season, or a season at all, I’ll have a hard time considering anything less than 10-2 as a succes. We have the senior sams plus our best recruiting class in over a decade as third years. This will be the most talented roster Texas has had in about 10 years or will have in at least the next 2-3 years. 
 

Herman absolutely has to either beat 2/3 of LSU, OU, OSU and then only lose 1 to a team he shouldn’t, or go 1/3 against that trio and not lose any others. 

[BradInATX 9,208]

Rationalizing how your coach that has 15 losses in three years is equal (or better) to a coach that has three conference championships and three CFP appearances in the same three years in the same division of the same conference is peak aggy. SMH. Embarrassing to even have that posted as an actual serious take on a Texas Football message board.

Edited July 21, 2020 by BradInATX