Tom "the turtle" Herman [Lame Duck or greatest 5d chess player ever?]

[Steamboat1874 4,280]

56 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Rationalizing how your coach that has 15 losses in three years is equal (or better) to a coach that has three conference championships and three CFP appearances in the same three years in the same division of the same conference is peak aggy. SMH. Embarrassing to even have that posted as an actual serious take on a Texas Football message board.

I agree with your assessment but do you think if we would have hired Riley to take over the dumpster fire Charlie Strong left he would have those credentials?

Doubtful.

[Tex Long 4,613]

The comparison with Riley is specious. To make it truly relevant, suppose the Pope walked away from tOSU with #MensaTom still at OC, instead of Day. It's speculation, but tOSU was stacked even better than Stoops left 0U, including both staff and players... it's hard to imagine that Herman would've done any worse than Riley has.

I feel a lot better about the assistants this year than what we've had the last three years. He was handed a five-year contract in the first place, I'm okay with seeing these next two seasons before pulling the plug on him. 

Nobody I know would disagree with the opinion that we're in a fuck of a lot better position now than we were after three years of Charlie Strong. 

 

[Js1 86,928]

13 hours ago, Lobo said:

Well based on the media poll of the Big 12 this year and who plays us where...it would seem like we'd be odds-on favorites to finish 7-2 (losses to OKL & OSU).  And 9-3 overall.  So that's something.  Because paying $6mm/year for 5 losses/year after 3 years is getting fucking exhausting.  

I'd put money we don't finish 7-2 in the Big 12 (if we play)

Because you don't factor in the Herman "WTF" loss when Herman decides to smoke crack instead of game planning all week. 

[Guest Lobo]

Yeah, I was just talking about based on how the media poll rates our opponents and where we play them. I see as being favorites in 7 games.  I think we shit the bed against somebody else, finish 6-3/8-4 overall (if we play all 12).  Miss the Big XII title game and probably win whatever bowl picks after the Alamo Bowl.  Although IF we play, travel concerns would probably cause the Alamo Bowl to snatch us up again for proximity purposes knowing we can "Bring" more fans than an Iowa State.  

So yeah, I think at best we're looking at 4-loss season.  

[A’Dam Psycho 1,490]

12 hours ago, Jkwellborn said:

Riley helped make that well oiled machine.

The same “well oiled machine” that Herman beat when he was at cougar high. BlowU went 10-2 that same year.

[Jkwellborn 7,006]

The same “well oiled machine” that Herman beat when he was at cougar high. BlowU went 10-2 that same year.

Wasn’t Riley calling the plays for Ou then?

[USNALonghorn 5,155]

3 hours ago, BurntEyes said:

That's a lot of words to dismiss a substantially better record than what Texas put forth.

You can't win the games you don't play. Tom Herman has lost a lot of the games he did.

"Small tactical victories" include Big XIi championships. You claim a team that wins the Big XII doesn't deserve to be in the CFP. You note close victories but somehow look right over needing a last second field goal to beat Kansas at home. KANSAS at home. You over look an ass raping in Waco and ignore the two Maryland losses. 

You're full on aggy delusional or a fucking troll. Either way... Our engagement here has come to a permanent end.

Yes, I’m delusional for not slobbing all over a sooner coach... who has proven to be the SEC’s bitch on a stage that matters. 
 

Never at any point did I say that the Big12 champions did not deserve a CFP slot. We were talking about a specific set of circumstances that allowed an undeserving OU team enter the playoff. 
 

Lincoln Riley has demonstrated a better record and is a more consistent coach. I’m not going to re-highlight his flaws. He’s still far from a coach I’d want to go through the hassle of an HC change for. 
 

You’re too entrenched in your emotional attachment to Riley or just bitter from your hatred of TH. If you’re unable to present further points that go beyond petty insults, we can consider this “engagement” complete.

[Rimbo 26,852]

On 7/19/2020 at 1:27 PM, Lobo said:

OU sucks, but they win shit.  Now Bob Stoops eats bags of Riley dick on the weekends.  Only reason he still shows up for the fair is for those Riley shaped corndogs.  

"They just win" is an idiotic oversimplification.

Last year, OU out-coached us in a game that should've been won by us. But not the year before, when (during the regular season) we beat them with a group of players that really didn't belong in the same field with OU's talent. Right now, in my mind, the score is 1-1 on "getting out-coached."

Herman did something I never expected him to do after that loss: He adjusted. New hires, got out of his comfort zone. Now, maybe that's because he was told he had to change or lose his job. Maybe that's too little too late, maybe it won't be enough, maybe Tom still sucks. The jury's still out.

I really like the way he handled BLM, personally. Even if you don't agree with it politically, you've got to recognize the positive impact this will have on recruiting. He bought himself another year or so with that, just to see if the talent pipeline improves.

So anyway. This year's gonna be fucked and it doesn't count either way (I hope we win, Inigo). 

[Rimbo 26,852]

15 hours ago, stone oak said:

Wait, people exist who wouldn’t trade Herman for Riley straight up? 

Yeah, we're called "Old farts who remember Akers."

[JFKFC 4,965]

5 hours ago, Tex Long said:

Nobody I know would disagree with the opinion that we're in a fuck of a lot better position now than we were after three years of Charlie Strong. 

We would be better with a syphilitic donkey or Houston Nutt than Charlie Strong. Surpassing the Burnt Orange exploits of Strong in no way inspires optimism for Herman. 

Can anyone name a situation when a coach fired both of his coordinators and later won a national title at that school? A Power 5 conference? 

[Bevo 13,821]

5 minutes ago, JFKFC said:

We would be better with a syphilitic donkey or Houston Nutt than Charlie Strong. Surpassing the Burnt Orange exploits of Strong in no way inspires optimism for Herman. 

Can anyone name a situation when a coach fired both of his coordinators and later won a national title at that school? A Power 5 conference? 

Both coordinators are a step up. Wish we could have kept Beck as a TE and WR coach and brought Samples in as an assistant WR coach or something. Wish we would have fired Meh a year earlier. Washington was decent but I think we are better off with the change. Orlando sucked.

[totallynotabuttpirate 5,477]

No way Texas would ever hire a coach with a belly tattoo. 

[Tex Pete 21,393]

1 hour ago, Rimbo said:

Yeah, we're called "Old farts who remember Akers."

Yeah. Winning more games sounds great. Winning more games with nothing to show for it still means very little.

I remember Mack having us "in the conversation," but still not winning the conference but twice because he refused to play aggressively against OU. I remember Mackovic winning the conference, then turning around and having a shitty season.

Ultimately, you win the MNC or you don't, and only one team a year wins it. We can argue about how much anything else matters.

[BradInATX 9,208]

31 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

Yeah. Winning more games sounds great. Winning more games with nothing to show for it still means very little.

I remember Mack having us "in the conversation," but still not winning the conference but twice because he refused to play aggressively against OU.

 

Wait so you don't think a coach like Mack Brown who has flaws but has his team in the hunt every year is a championship caliber head coach?

Did you mean to make a mockery of the very point you were trying to make or was that accidental?

 

[BradInATX 9,208]

7 hours ago, Steamboat1874 said:

I agree with your assessment but do you think if we would have hired Riley to take over the dumpster fire Charlie Strong left he would have those credentials?

Doubtful.

Nah, of course not. But I'm confident he'd have had fewer than 15 losses in three years at the University of Fucking Texas. I'm confident that even with Charlie's scrubs, he would put up big margins of victory against trash ass teams like Kansas and Baylor without needing last minute heroics to win. He might still have lost to LSU and OU and maybe one other decent B12 team but he isn't going to lose with Charlie's 3.5 stars to a bunch of 1.5 stars. Good coaches don't do that on a regular basis.

 

Edited July 21, 2020 by BradInATX

[Tex Pete 21,393]

26 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

 

Wait so you don't think a coach like Mack Brown who has flaws but has his team in the hunt every year is a championship caliber head coach?

Did you mean to make a mockery of the very point you were trying to make or was that accidental?

Read what I typed, dumbass.

[BradInATX 9,208]

Read what I typed, dumbass.

I did. You compared early Mack to Riley. It just appears you've forgotten how the next few years went for Mack and Texas.
Your point was "remember when Mack won ten games every year but we had nothing to show for it that sucked!". Which of course is stupid in a number of ways.

[CurlyDumps 4,618]

1 hour ago, JFKFC said:

We would be better with a syphilitic donkey or Houston Nutt than Charlie Strong. Surpassing the Burnt Orange exploits of Strong in no way inspires optimism for Herman. 

Can anyone name a situation when a coach fired both of his coordinators and later won a national title at that school? A Power 5 conference? 

 Saban in 2008.

Dabo went 6-7 in 2010, his 3rd season if you count the interim year. He only fired his OC, but did make a change on defense by going with co-DC’s (though no idea how much of a change it really was). He was definitely on the hot seat, though, and I’m sure a ton of Clemson fans were 100% convinced he wasn’t the guy.

[A’Dam Psycho 1,490]

2 hours ago, JFKFC said:

We would be better with a syphilitic donkey or Houston Nutt than Charlie Strong. Surpassing the Burnt Orange exploits of Strong in no way inspires optimism for Herman. 

Can anyone name a situation when a coach fired both of his coordinators and later won a national title at that school? A Power 5 conference? 

Dabo fired his d coordinator after getting ass blasted by a mediocre WV team. Saban losses coordinators all the time. I don’t understand this argument 

[A’Dam Psycho 1,490]

56 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Nah, of course not. But I'm confident he'd have had fewer than 15 losses in three years at the University of Fucking Texas. I'm confident that even with Charlie's scrubs, he would put up big margins of victory against trash ass teams like Kansas and Baylor without needing last minute heroics to win. He might still have lost to LSU and OU and maybe one other decent B12 team but he isn't going to lose with Charlie's 3.5 stars to a bunch of 1.5 stars. Good coaches don't do that on a regular basis.

 

So you think Riley is was gonna win with Kyle fuckin Porter, sophomore Shane Beuchele, Choir boy offensive lineman and whatever the fuck we had WR. He’d do no better than 8-4 in 2017

[BradInATX 9,208]

Dabo fired his d coordinator after getting ass blasted by a mediocre WV team. Saban losses coordinators all the time. I don’t understand this argument 

I mean we can explain it to you, but we can't help you understand it.

[TreatyOak 17,194]

[Tex Pete 21,393]

44 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

I did. You compared early Mack to Riley. It just appears you've forgotten how the next few years went for Mack and Texas.
Your point was "remember when Mack won ten games every year but we had nothing to show for it that sucked!". Which of course is stupid in a number of ways.

I didn’t type a word about Lincoln RIley. I was echoing Rimbo. Fred Akers won nothing of substance here and people threw a fit and we rightly fired him. The goal is to win national championships. Anything short of that is failure. 

[BradInATX 9,208]

I didn’t type a word about Lincoln RIley. I was echoing Rimbo. Fred Akers won nothing of substance here and people threw a fit and we rightly fired him. The goal is to win national championships. Anything short of that is failure. 

You're repeating your dumb premise that there is no difference between averaging 5 losses and playing in Alamo Bowls vs winning your conference and playing in the CFP every year but not winning national titles. 

When you find your arguments start using aggy logic, you should just stop. Lots of people read this board and you're embarrassing yourself, and some of it is getting on us.

But I've had enough stupidity for one day. It's a free country and it's your right to believe that there is zero difference between a consensus top 3-5 coach and Tom Herman. By your metric, Jimbo Fisher is a top 5 coach, which is stupid as hell. But go on with your bad self.

 

 

[Not a cat 5,804]

6 hours ago, Tex Pete said:

Yeah. Winning more games sounds great. Winning more games with nothing to show for it still means very little.

I remember Mack having us "in the conversation," but still not winning the conference but twice because he refused to play aggressively against OU. I remember Mackovic winning the conference, then turning around and having a shitty season.

Ultimately, you win the MNC or you don't, and only one team a year wins it. We can argue about how much anything else matters.

I'd love to consistently be Bama and have every recruiting class over a dozen year period with at least one national championship.  But we've never accomplished that in any stretch in the program's history.

What I'd be ecstatic with right now is consistent 10 win seasons, over .500 against your main rival, win conference championship at least half the time, bitch slap lesser teams and always be in the playoff talk in November.  That would be really, really cool.  And then once we got used to that we can start bitching about how we're just not getting enough national championships.

[Tex Pete 21,393]

5 hours ago, BradInATX said:

You're repeating your dumb premise that there is no difference between averaging 5 losses and playing in Alamo Bowls vs winning your conference and playing in the CFP every year but not winning national titles. 

When you find your arguments start using aggy logic, you should just stop. Lots of people read this board and you're embarrassing yourself, and some of it is getting on us.

But I've had enough stupidity for one day. It's a free country and it's your right to believe that there is zero difference between a consensus top 3-5 coach and Tom Herman. By your metric, Jimbo Fisher is a top 5 coach, which is stupid as hell. But go on with your bad self.

I very clearly stated that the ultimate goal is to win a national championship and that anything less than that is failure. We can argue about what the rest is worth. Being close sucked ass when Mack was here.
 

My “argument” was nothing, so you’re upset about nothing. I’m sorry you struggle with comprehension. 

[SwanderedTalent 5,761]

5 hours ago, BradInATX said:

But I've had enough stupidity for one day.

oh I doubt that

[BradInATX 9,208]

oh I doubt that

You're right, it just keeps coming.

[Rimbo 26,852]

6 hours ago, BurntEyes said:

Well, Fred Akers went 29-7 his first 3 years and ended up Ranked 4, 9 and 12th. Overall .731 win percentage at Texas. 

That's under LR's winning % in his first three but based on the last 3 years at Texas 29-7 sounds amazing to me. 

Again, that's ONLY in comparison to Herman. Who has only surpassed Charlie Strong. Which is a really low bar

So... I guess what I'm saying is while Akers and Riley wouldn't be my first choices, they'd be a good deal better than the current staff. 

Found a nice quote...

Following a Texas legend ain’t easy. Just ask Charlie Strong. And Akers replaced THE Texas legend in Darrell Royal. And he was doing it in a cloud of controversy since many Longhorn fans wanted Royal’s longtime assistant Mike Campbell to get the job. Akers had been an assistant at Texas, but had left to become the head coach of Wyoming, where he went 2-9 in year one and 8-4 in year two. That second season magic made him the 1970s version of Tom Herman, and Texas hired him as head coach. Like Brown, Akers inherited a soon to be Heisman Trophy winner (are you reading this 2,000-yard rusher D’Onta Foreman?) in Earl Campbell. Campbell rushed for 1,767 yards on 267 carries and scored 18 touchdowns. Texas went 8-0 in the SWC, beating Oklahoma, Arkansas, Texas Tech and crushed Texas A&M 57-28. The bowl game was not good, losing to No. 5 Notre Dame 38-10, but at 11-1 and a final ranking of No. 4, this is the greatest first year in Texas history by a new coach.

Unless you count 1893’s 4-0 team, which lists no coach… and was the first year of the program.

You do realize you're supporting my argument and not hurting it, right?

We're not disagreeing on the facts. Where we disagree upon is the idea that Lincoln Riley is somehow good enough. Like @Tex Pete says, winning it all is the goal, the only goal.

Riley's been handed a culture, talent, and staff on a silver platter, and keeps falling short of the ultimate goal. Just like Akers. Herman may not be any better, but a 5-loss season is a damned sight better than what he inherited, so at least the trend is upwards. Given that Mack didn't make hay until he'd shuffled the staff a time or two (and had an injection of culture from Dick Tomey -- which he ditched right after he finally did win the MNC), I'm willing to allow Tom a shuffling or two.

But check my post history; I'm hardly a Tom Herman apologist. Quite the opposite, in fact. If he can't win, for the fuck's sake, let's move on. But let's not replace him with limp-dicked Lincoln. Let's get someone who actually has a chance of winning it all.

Edited July 22, 2020 by Rimbo

[BurntOrange&White 41,646]

So you think Riley is was gonna win with Kyle fuckin Porter, sophomore Shane Beuchele, Choir boy offensive lineman and whatever the fuck we had WR. He’d do no better than 8-4 in 2017

I think Riley would have made changes faster than 2-3 years in

[A’Dam Psycho 1,490]

2 hours ago, Bevo VIII said:

I think Riley would have made changes faster than 2-3 years in

Based on what?

[6th Street 6,653]

5 minutes ago, A’Dam Psycho said:

Based on what?

Fired Mike Stoops not even halfway thru year 2, and then cruises to a Big 12 title and another CFP appearance.

Meanwhile Herman held his dick and let trash like Tim Beck, Mehringer, and Warehime stick around a full 3 years until the wheels fell off.

[Atlfan714 155]

On 7/20/2020 at 12:34 AM, TXpride said:

I will say this with regard to Herman vs. Riley: I know who I'd rather have coaching a playoff game. The question is if he can actually get there.

Hahaha wtf

[Atlfan714 155]

On 7/20/2020 at 10:05 PM, USNALonghorn said:

Riley inherited a well oiled machine. All he’s had to do was keep up the trend that was already there.

 

Riley can field and all world offense, but completely neglects the other side of the ball. His teams can dominate weaker opposition, but completely crumble when they face physicality. Riley’s teams are the epitome of “soft”.

 

No one in their right mind is saying that Tom Herman is the outright better coach. It’s just a bit paradoxical to see the same people that have criticized the TH hire as dumpster diving wish for Riley to be his replacement. Raise the bar.
 

It’s cool that he’s managed to backdoor his way into the CFPs, but year after year he resoundingly proves that he doesn’t belong. I’d rather have TH as my coach in a big stage game 10 times out of 10.

 

 

Hahahahaha

[Atlfan714 155]

23 hours ago, A’Dam Psycho said:

The same “well oiled machine” that Herman beat when he was at cougar high. BlowU went 10-2 that same year.

Herman has lost to West Virginia and Maryland. And loses at least 4 games a year. 

[A’Dam Psycho 1,490]

There’s atleast 15 current HC including Tommy Herman that could walk Into OUs situation and have equal success. Dana Holgerson would win there. It’s nice to inherit Baker Mayfield, Kyler Murray, Rodney Anderson, Trey Sermon, an good offensive line (that gets away with holding consistently), Marquise Brown, Ceedee Lamb, Mark Andrews, etc.
 

LR has not upgraded their defense and they get pounded against good teams and drop a game decent teams every year. LR deserves credit for keeping the train rolling and not being an idiot and getting in the way. If LR is the third best (I think Kirby Smart is better personally), hes a distant third. 

 

[A’Dam Psycho 1,490]

7 minutes ago, 6th Street said:

Fired Mike Stoops not even halfway thru year 2, and then cruises to a Big 12 title and another CFP appearance.

Meanwhile Herman held his dick and let trash like Tim Beck, Mehringer, and Warehime stick around a full 3 years until the wheels fell off.

So you're upset Herman didn’t fire coaches after beating OU and making the Big12 ccg in year two? I understand the criticism of bringing Tim Beck and Todd Orlando in the first place but this seems a little hindsight criticizing 

[A’Dam Psycho 1,490]

6 minutes ago, Atlfan714 said:

Herman has lost to West Virginia and Maryland. And loses at least 4 games a year. 

We lost to Maryland in his first game a year removed from losing to fuckin Kansas. WV was a 1 loss team with a good QB when we played them. The second Maryland loss is inexcusable I agree but he still turned it around and won the Sugar bowl. We need to stop knitpicking 

[Gene Parmesan 4,062]

7 minutes ago, A’Dam Psycho said:

We lost to Maryland in his first game a year removed from losing to fuckin Kansas. WV was a 1 loss team with a good QB when we played them. The second Maryland loss is inexcusable I agree but he still turned it around and won the Sugar bowl. We need to stop knitpicking 

And then the next year he turned it around again and lost 5 games.

[BurntOrange&White 41,646]

So you're upset Herman didn’t fire coaches after beating OU and making the Big12 ccg in year two? I understand the criticism of bringing Tim Beck and Todd Orlando in the first place but this seems a little hindsight criticizing 

Herman should have fired Warehime and Mehringer after year 1.


He only fired them because his hand was forced.


It’s not hindsight. It’s actually Herman’s incompetence

[Tex Long 4,613]

2 minutes ago, Bevo VIII said:

It’s not hindsight....

It actually is, quite literally, well within the very definition of hindsight.

The real question is, has #MensaTom learned from the errors we have seen, or has he not?

His coaching staff hires have made it look like he may have learned, but we won't know until we see the next season - if we ever do.

We do know that he can - and has - put together a pretty damned good Game Plan for Big Games, which to me is a Good Thing. If he's learned to extend that ability to the rest of the games on our schedule... fuck yeah, we're good.

Seems like some of us have seen enough, are absolutely certain he's still the same arrogant fuckup, and are ready to dump him, and pay him three years (it is three left on the contract, isn't it?) worth of salary to go away. I'm not in that group, not yet.

[JFKFC 4,965]

26 minutes ago, Tex Long said:

The real question is, has #MensaTom learned from the errors we have seen, or has he not?

 

[Neonmoon 38,130]

Herman is garbage. Still can’t beat shitty teams. 

[A’Dam Psycho 1,490]

Same bullshit different year

[Valmy77 13,567]

Hello darkness my old friend

[campcrunk 2,548]

I feel like I've seen this same, shitty movie too many times already. 

[campcrunk 2,548]

8 minutes ago, campcrunk said:

I feel like I've seen this same, shitty movie too many times already. 

Please disregard this post. At least until they start to fuck up again. 

[Hagbard Celine 11,157]

Your post is now regarded.

[Blotto 23,974]

Herman is gonna look surprisingly mediocre after Ehlinger moves on. Sam is the single reason we havent looked like Strong's teams. 

[Hagbard Celine 11,157]

if therm blows this on a day when thieves just spotted us a game......