Tom "the turtle" Herman [Lame Duck or greatest 5d chess player ever?]

[Eggo 4026]

Does CDC keep Herman and Yurcich around knowing that Ewers could be lightning in a bottle or clean house to give the kid a real chance at winning something? 

[6th Street 6651]

Ewers hoisting up that Alamo Bowl trophy would be fantastic 

[victory88 5755]

7 minutes ago, Eggo said:

Does CDC keep Herman and Yurcich around knowing that Ewers could be lightning in a bottle or clean house to give the kid a real chance at winning something? 

Yeah, I ecstatic about Ewers, but you don’t base a head coaching decision on a recruit.  

[6th Street 6651]

Especially when said recruit can't game plan or help with that garbage defense 

[BurntOrange&White 41646]

1 hour ago, BevoSwag said:

Trying to think of something positive this morning.  But for a fumble at the 1 we'd be undefeated.  OU is as bad as us on D.  We can win that game.  KSU, ISU and OSU are the big question marks.  TCU already has a conference loss and they won't go the remainder of the season undefeated.  

Riley will out coach Tom. 

[pacman 7485]

Scipio nails Turtle Tom's lack of self-awareness 

Quote

TCU gives us a full box and Texas runs it vanilla with Ingram. 2nd and 9. TCU doubles down. We respond with a called 3 yard Ehlinger run. 3rd and 6. Texas now has to make a money down conversion on a clear passing down. We dawdle. Running clock! But that allows Patterson to brain transplant the proper call and adjustments to his defense, probably while standing about 15 yards onto the field of play, sweating profusely, the ass of his Dockers looking like Niagara Falls. Short throw to Smith, short of the sticks.

Would it amuse you if I told you that this was essentially the same play sequence we ran against Iowa State in Ames with a 21-20 lead and 4:01 on the clock? The difference was that it was an Ehlinger called run on 1st, Ingram run on 2nd, then conservative attempted screen call to Duvernay, PBU. Punt

 

The team will always be a reflection of the coach. This teams lack of "clutch" rests squarely on a coach who acts like a complete pussy.

Edited October 4, 2020 by pacman

[LTtxfan 49906]

3 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

And maybe Rhule, Miles and Campbell. They are all capable of doing so. 

Rhule is in the NFL now

 

Edited October 4, 2020 by LTtxfan
Damn autocorrect

[BrazilHorn 6789]

1 minute ago, BurntEyes said:

I've already spelled this out but it's clear I need to do so again.

Academics at Texas rely on athletic contributions. 

Bringing Tom back, in all likelihood, reduces the number of season ticket holders. At some point, the LHN and Big XII contracts are coming due. A shitty Texas and one conference Big XII reduce revenue greatly.

In a time when Academics most need Athletic revenue, while our basketball and baseball is also suffering, bringing Herman back is a net negative long term and short for Athletic money, which in turn is less money for academic money.

If anything, academics should be up CDC's ass to fire Herman and bring in a winner at Football, baseball and basketball. If they aren't they really don't know the hand that feeds them.

And neither does CDC. 

It makes zero economic sense, for anyone, in the long and short term to have Herman return.

I don't understand why this is so difficult to grasp.

I got it. Issue is overall revenues are down. Making UT ponying up millions to buy him out this year to me unlikely. 
I think due to cv19 and not having what he will pitch as time to install new systems on O and D that CDC does jack shit. 

I am happy to be proven wrong as he is shit as a HC 

[Newy25 7894]

3 hours ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

My fantasy is we roll out Thompson as the mature backup(chance mock) then we realize JQJ is a beast and have him starting by ou and end up winning 10 games.

Outside of QB where else is it rebuild? seems like all the other positions aren't a full turnover like QB.

Our offensive line is a rebuild next year. And in case you have not been paying attention, we have been recruiting that position as well as we game plan for TCU. 

[6th Street 6651]

CDC is an empty suit 

[Hagbard Celine 11157]

9 hours ago, Bullneck said:

By now we should have a machine built to dismantle every team on our schedule except the 50/50 games like LSU and OU.

We know this.

Does the Tower know this?

CDC?

Cigars?

25 years ago the answers to those questions were absolutely yes.  Today?  We will find out if they bring him back for '21.  I don't buy the fiscal arguments.  We have cigars whose net worth has declined by 20% and are still billionaires.

+++

Royal created Our Standard.  In 10 of his 20 years on The 40, he reached MACHINE level performance** (see the end).  50%.  That's the standard.   Royal's other 10 years: 9 were mediocre aggy-level performance and his last ('75) was epic fail.    Mediocre is going to happen.  It's okay.  But not more than 4 years in a row.

Akers, 10 years:

1977: MACHINE (*earl)

1978: mediocre

1979: mediocre

1980: mediocre, hot seat

1981: MACHINE

1982: mediocre

1983: MACHINE

1984: mediocre

1985: mediocre, hot seat

1986: epic fail, nuked

Akers got a lot of leash because and deservedly so.  In '81 and '83 he achieved Our Standard without a transcendent player.  But in the end he couldn't compete with FedEx and we were not willing to get down in the slop with aggy.

 

McWililams, 5 years:

1987: mediocre

1988: epic fail, hot seat, 4-7 how did he survive?

1989: epic fail, hot seat, how did her survive epic fail 2 years in a row? the darkest pit to date since 1956.

1990: MACHINE, the most unlikely season evar

1991: epic fail, nuked

Post-Royal, McWilliams established the "3 strikes" epic fail rule, and the "4th season MACHINE" rule.

 

Mackovic, 6 years:

1992: mediocre

1993: epic fail, hot seat

1994: mediocre

1995: MACHINE

1996: mediocre

1997: epic fail, nuked

Mackovic updated the epic fail rule, getting nuked with only "2 strikes".  But he also proved the "4th season MACHINE" rule.

 

Brown, 16 years:

1998: mediocre

1999: mediocre

2000: mediocre

2001: MACHINE

2002: mediocre

2003: MACHINE

2004: MACHINE

2005: MACHINE

2006: mediocre

2007: mediocre

2008: MACHINE

2009: MACHINE

2010: epic fail

2011: mediocre

2012: mediocre

2013: mediocre, nuked

Now in hindsight is seems that Mack's success was his undoing.  He should have followed Royal's example.  When you touch the sun for so long and then crash, it's time to leave with all the good will you created.  Nuked with only 1 epic fail season in 16.   All of that MACHINE success tainted by fair park rapes, gdgd repression, too much class, not enough bloodthirst, and bitchassedness.

 

Strong, 3 years:

2014: epic fail

2015: epic fail, should have been on the hot seat

2016: epic fail, nuked

Should have been gone after 2 strikes.  Confirmed the "3-strike" rule.

 

Herman, 4 years(?):

2017: mediocre

2018: mediocre

2019: mediocre

2020: ?

** Royal didn't reach MACHINE level until his 5th year.  His first 4 years were mediocre.

 

So, if the Tower and the Cigars believe Herman is the next Royal, he has to reach MACHINE level next year or he's gone after '21.

If they don't believe he's the next Royal, then he has to win out this year, in '20, and if he doesn't, then he failed the 4-year MACHINE rule, and should be gone at the end of this season.

Therm has to win out to survive, unless those in charge believe he is the next Royal.

 

 

 

[Cajun 11771]

2 minutes ago, 6th Street said:

CDC is an empty suit 

I'm beginning to agree.  He's afraid to make the big changes and lives around the edges.

[futureman 22664]

Lulz

[Guest Lobo]

Akers and Mackovic both won 2 conference championships in far less time than Mack Brown did.  And I bet Herman doesn't win a single one during his tenure at Texas.  

I'm old school in that way.  Hardware, not meaningless bowl wins (Sugar notwithstanding, that's a legacy win for the ages), is what matter to me.  

You can have all your preseason Top 15 rankings.  Who gives a shit?  This guy is a solid coach, he'll average 8-5 or so during his tenure here.  And that's fine.  No reason to pay $6mm a year for it though.  I can get that steal of  a deal at twice the price.  

3 conference titles in 26 seasons in the Big XII.  That's a fucking joke.  The rest of the league, including all its departed members, have the same number of Big XII championships combined as Oklahoma has all by themselves.  We don't care about winning here, we just think we do.  And that's fine.  It's a fun thing to do in the fall, and it's fun to follow and get wrapped up in.  But if we're just gonna be "above average", let's start charging just "above average" prices...we're paying Clemson prices for A&M results.  And it's getting annoying.

Edited October 4, 2020 by Lobo

[Funk Doctor Spock 13120]

11 hours ago, BurntEyes said:

Doesn't fucking matter.

I'll wager with anyone any amount of money, no matter what happens next week Herman drops at least one to Baylor, ISU, OSU or Kansas.  Mark it. 

I'll be surprised if it's not 2.

OSU and ISU for sure, and I'm almost certain Baylor. KU is a toss-up. I hate losing, but if it means we're done with this dickhead I'll deal with the losses. 

[Jacob McCandles 202]

1 hour ago, Nueces River Rat said:

Agreed.  No more project coaches or ESPN recommendations from their fanboys like Herbie.  Don’t know about Harbaugh....
 

Would PJ Fleck fit this description?. 

Cross posting from another thread

If you are running a multi-million dollar company, you do not go get your next CEO at some family-owned business; you go get the best available person who has skins on the wall. That said, in compiling the list below, it looks like Saban and Dabo are the only MNC coaches to win championships across multiple recruiting periods. Urban and Pete Carroll are closer to Saban and Dabo than they are to Coach O, Chizik, Jimbo, and Mack (i.e. those who owe their MNCs to catching lightning in a bottle).

That said, here are the coaches with National Championships who are still coaching and/or age appropriate:

 

Saban - Texas took a shot and screwed it up apparently, so he'd likely say he is not interested (despite his wife attending open houses on Lake Austin); age becoming an issue 

Dabo - young enough for Texas to be interested; why move if you are him ... unless it is to Bama

Coach O - found lightening in a bottle in 2019 with grad transfer QB and young passing game guru; will recruit well (and shadily)

Mad Hatter - sort of backed into his MNC with a two-loss team

Chizik - not unless he's bringing Cam 2.0

Jimbo - not unless he's bringing Jameis 2.0

Mack - retired on active duty; got run off (but would take if he's bringing VY 2.0 )

Pete Carroll - has a better job

Big Game Bob - walked away and has expressed no interest in other jobs; might have health issues

Urban - likely to win big; will recruit well (and perhaps shadily); would likely lock down the State in recruiting; might have health issues

 

Bottom-line, even without considering the finances of buy-outs, Covid-related revenue drops, etc., etc., Texas is kind of fucked; either have to sell the University's soul a little bit and roll with Urban or roll dice and hope that you catch lightning in a bottle and/or find the next great coach among the up-and-comers. 

And as Liquor and Poker stated on the other thread, the BMDs know Tom is owed a lot of money in a financial crisis period and are likely not to want to spend the money it will take to buy him out and get someone new ... so he is likely back in 2021 (unfortunately).

 

Edited October 4, 2020 by Jacob McCandles

[David Dennison 19440]

Texas Football: Sucking since 2010

 

[Shaggy3.0 1695]

Oh look. Jacob cross-posted the "who you gonna hire? nobody will come here--we're fucked" content.  

That cowardly behavior put is in our current situation.  You go after the best to be the best.  Someone will say "yes".  

 

Edited October 4, 2020 by Shaggy3.0

[BrazilHorn 6789]

27 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

Tell me again, why did we need a new OC and DC in the first place? Did Herman go out and get the best available with an open check book to do so or get retread friendly hires that have shown zero improvement even in fundamentals of football? Does keeping Tom help or hurt future revenues? (Already answered but repeating below) 

And let's be very, very clear. Given the aforementioned basketball, baseball and football issues, keeping Tom reduces athletic income in short term and long and guess who IS on the hot seat....

So, if CDC doesn't fire Herman, because of some more shitty excuses from Herman, CDC sucks at his job and needs to lose it.

I subscribe to your newsletter. Fingers crossed 

[Funk Doctor Spock 13120]

Just now, BurntEyes said:

We needed a last minute field goal to beat Kansas last year, at home.

Herman is fully capable of dropping any and all of those games, he's magic.

Oh, absolutely. Hence why I'm saying KU is a toss-up. 

[Rockethorn1978 6203]

42 minutes ago, Newy25 said:

Our offensive line is a rebuild next year. And in case you have not been paying attention, we have been recruiting that position as well as we game plan for TCU. 

Lol i avoid the recruiting page like the plague. 

[Helobious 9755]

Herman’d

Edited October 4, 2020 by Helobious

[Newy25 7894]

27 minutes ago, Cajun said:

I'm beginning to agree.  He's afraid to make the big changes and lives around the edges.

What are talking about? Did you see how quickly he moved on the women’s softball coach? A potentially career defining move for an AD at Texas, IMO. 

[Halohal 524]

This person been cruising since last year.

[Domedriver 655]

If it looks like ass?

if it smells like ass?

if it tastes like ass?

we are well past smelling!  It’s ass!

[TwiceHorn 31984]

12 minutes ago, Newy25 said:

What are talking about? Did you see how quickly he moved on the women’s softball coach? A potentially career defining move for an AD at Texas, IMO. 

The hires he has made have been good.  That's more than you can say about our last three ADs, including the acting/interim one.

He's got a couple of shit sandwiches on his plate in Smart and Herman.  And, cash-wise, they are interrelated.

I'm not sure any of us have considered that he's been keeping his powder dry on Smart so he can act on Herman.

 

Edited October 4, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Eggo 4026]

Would just like to say my biggest hesitation with going after "the best" is an aggy situation where we brinks truck a name and stay shitty. 

[TwiceHorn 31984]

2 minutes ago, Eggo said:

Would just like to say my biggest hesitation with going after "the best" is an aggy situation where we brinks truck a name and stay shitty. 

Yeah, the only potential pastrami sandwich out there is Meyer, and I think he's more turkey pastrami.

[Eggo 4026]

2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yeah, the only potential pastrami sandwich out there is Meyer, and I think he's more turkey pastrami.

Sounds like a serviceable reuben to me. I'm in. 

[Bullneck 19454]

If he can't win the Big XII in a year where on the last week the conference won't have a top 10 team, who needs him?

[Domedriver 655]

I really don’t want some big name retread like Urban, or Saban.  I want someone proven but young.  I would love for us to money whip Kyle Shanahan into coming home.  Or go crazy and get the Pirate and drive all the fat girl friends off the team!

[Funk Doctor Spock 13120]

22 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

Lol i avoid the recruiting page like the plague. 

You should check it out for the lulz and bitch fest we have. There's some quality gold over there. 

[Doc Sam Beckett 5854]

9 minutes ago, Eggo said:

Would just like to say my biggest hesitation with going after "the best" is an aggy situation where we brinks truck a name and stay shitty. 

Except everyone but aggy knew what Jimbo was. 

[Shaggy3.0 1695]

4 minutes ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

Except everyone but aggy knew what Jimbo was. 

Yeah, Jimbo wasn't the best.  Aggy wanted an active MNC coach to legitimize their program.  

[RomaVicta 30498]

1 hour ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Jeff Traylor

Got the Roadrunners at 3-1 and gave conference power UAB a game in Birmingham yesterday. Traylor has been my guy since Charlie had to go but I've been told over and over again we just don't hire HS coaches....Even though his resume wasn't too incredibly different from DKR's back in 2016, save a short stint as HC at an irrelevant PAC school. 

Also I get a sense some of y'all think he's a little too bass boat and Oakley shades or something. Not a country club type like Mack or a hip young city slicker who can talk to da kidz about teh rap and such. 

What he is is a legend in our most fertile recruiting ground and he is now proving he can run a mid-major...But now just mentioning a mid-major is the kiss of death for most of y'all. 

Anyway, big game against a stout BYU squad this week. I bet UTSA covers. 

This is the real problem. Actually I'd blame their bosses, our BMDs. Or BMDs suck and appear to be torn into factions. I don't know much about that world but I doubt Bama has Mobile and Birmingham factions stabbing each other in the back, or the same with the Gooners and rival gangs from Tulsa and OKC. 

Great reference. Intriguing suggestion for a coach. DKR was young, but we got 20 years of a legendary coach. I was intrigued by the possibility of promoting Traylor when Charlie left, but also apprehensive for the obvious reasons. 

For me, Herman's earliest objectionable choices were not keeping Traylor on the staff and hiring the rape-enabler from Baylor. I took it in stride because I thought Herman was very promising and I'm a more optimistic type of Longhorn.

Hiring a new coach is almost always a crap shoot. Saban, Meyer, and even Mullen would be the lowest possible risks. I could support Traylor. I'd love the transition as a way to retain players and leap from the gate right away with recruiting. The staff we have is under contract and new, maybe he likes some of them and could save us some money there, too.

[Js1 86926]

20 minutes ago, Domedriver said:

I really don’t want some big name retread like Urban, or Saban.  I want someone proven but young.  I would love for us to money whip Kyle Shanahan into coming home.  Or go crazy and get the Pirate and drive all the fat girl friends off the team!

Mike Leach is overrated garbage.  

[Gravy Train 982]

I whipped this up quickly, realizing Tom has outright refused to step on a Frog's throat when it was presented to him:

[BurntOrange&White 41646]

Here is my list of 5 coaches we should hire. 
 

Dabo

Urban

Fleck

Saban

Luke Fickell

 

no particular order 

 

[Tailgate 3054]

I think Kirby is doing a good job at Georgia.

[BurntOrange&White 41646]

9 minutes ago, Tailgate said:

I think Kirby is doing a good job at Georgia.

Nah he was a coordinator at the time of hire so therefore according to Texas fans he would be ineligible to be hired here at the time of hire. 
 

 

[Gravy Train 982]

15 minutes ago, Tailgate said:

I think Kirby is doing a good job at Georgia.

LOL no, Kirby is about as creative as a Chinese knockoff Land Rover. 

 

 

 

 

...but wait, do we get to share Saban's bagmen with that move?

Edited October 4, 2020 by Gravy Train

[BurntOrange&White 41646]

7 minutes ago, Gravy Train said:

LOL no, Kirby is about as creative as a Chinese knockoff Land Rover. 

 

 

 

 

...but wait, do we get to share Saban's bagmen with that move?

Who gives a shit. Do what you have to do to win. Fuck moral high grounds. That doesn’t win games. 
 

Smart

 

Herman

 

 

Edited October 4, 2020 by Bevo VIII

[Huckleberry 34404]

18 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

The question I have is who should we have hired instead of Herman who looked like a good bet at the time? Did those of you who hated the hire have a better option in mind? Those are serious, unprejudiced questions. Strong had to go; then who? 

Herman may have been the correct hire at the time. In fact I think he was after thinking through this before. The issue was not insisting on a better initial staff. But the Strong disaster did not exactly have us in a powerful negotiating position. 

As always, the issue is being willing to move on when someone isn't working out. Most coaches aren't championship caliber. Missing on a hire isn't something to be ashamed of. Not recognizing it quickly enough is. 

[BurntOrange&White 41646]

2 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Herman may have been the correct hire at the time. In fact I think he was after thinking through this before. The issue was not insisting on a better initial staff. But the Strong disaster did not exactly have us in a powerful negotiating position. 

As always, the issue is being willing to move on when someone isn't working out. Most coaches aren't championship caliber. Missing on a hire isn't something to be ashamed of. Not recognizing it quickly enough is. 

He was a rushed hire because we thought LSU would steal him. He was chosen before the season even ended. We did no coaching search at all. 

[Helobious 9755]

57 minutes ago, Domedriver said:

I really don’t want some big name retread like Urban, or Saban.  I want someone proven but young.  I would love for us to money whip Kyle Shanahan into coming home.  Or go crazy and get the Pirate and drive all the fat girl friends off the team!

 Shanahan doesn’t seem to much care/remember that he played here. Maybe he does but it doesn’t seem like it. I doubt he has some burning desire to return.

[Shaggy3.0 1695]

He was a rushed hire because we thought LSU would steal him. He was chosen before the season even ended. We did no coaching search at all. 

This is correct.

[Js1 86926]

7 minutes ago, Bevo VIII said:

He was a rushed hire because we thought LSU would steal him. He was chosen before the season even ended. We did no coaching search at all. 

CORRECT.  There was no search and minimal vetting of Tom besides “Urban coaching tree, FSU/OU/Louisville upsets.”  

Edited October 4, 2020 by Js1

[Cajun 11771]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

The hires he has made have been good.  That's more than you can say about our last three ADs, including the acting/interim one.

He's got a couple of shit sandwiches on his plate in Smart and Herman.  And, cash-wise, they are interrelated.

I'm not sure any of us have considered that he's been keeping his powder dry on Smart so he can act on Herman.

 

Those couple of shit sandwiches?  Well, they're Guiness Book of World Records sized sandwiches relative to the giant tray of Chili's Sliders he's spent most hovering over.

Edited October 4, 2020 by Cajun

[GreenspointTexas 9933]

We can say moneywhip the following:

Peterson, Smart, Fleck, Campbell, Diaz, Leach, etc

 

 

But in reality,  not one of those is gonna come here. Im still pretty stunned Tom cant put it all together.

 

I will say this - THE NEXT HC AT TEXAS NEEDS TO BRING TOP LEVEL COORDINATORS. No more friends and family bullshit. 
 

hell, id even argue that all we need is a great recruiter and CEO HC like Mack was... and not a cerebral, innovative HC.

[TwiceHorn 31984]

While it is true that Herman's hiring was a completely impulsive move, that does not exclude it from being the best option at the time.