Tom "the turtle" Herman [Lame Duck or greatest 5d chess player ever?]

[TwiceHorn 31283]

6 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

That would be so Texas to hire Bob Stoops and for him to accept because we told him "sure, you can bring your brother Mike to be defensive coordinator!"

I posted elsewhere, but as many predicted, Tom couldn't save himself by correcting bad initial staff hires three years in under duress.  Strong couldn't either (2 years in, but same notion).

Even weak head coaches like Herman and Strong define a program to such an extent that assistant hires can't seem to make up deficits.  Even Mack gave evidence of this principle. 

I'm going to guess that it's because the HC, as a result of the bad initial hires (or maybe the reason for them in the first place), becomes meddlesome in areas of weakness and can't let the assistants coach.  

Our fucked up offense is fucked up for all the same reasons it was fucked up from the get go.  It has Herman's grimy fingerprints all over it.  Same thing happened with Mack when Davis was finally let go (I've always maintained that our offense under Mack was more Mack than Greg, especially the bad parts).

Herman suffered from cutting his teeth as OC and HC at programs that had recruited pretty well at their level (OSU obviously, and UH under Levine and Sumlin was scrong for AAC).  He maintains the idiot notion that he and his team should be able to impose their will without regard to the actual talent and schemes and opponent.

Edited October 12, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Longboard Horn 40145]

On 10/10/2020 at 4:00 PM, David Dennison said:

In a perfect world, he is let go tomorrow and you roll the dice with a lame duck staff.

Sadly, he'll be coaching this game next year.

[Bevo 13527]

1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

I posted elsewhere, but as many predicted, Tom couldn't save himself by correcting bad initial staff hires three years in under duress.  Strong couldn't either (2 years in, but same notion).

Even weak head coaches like Herman and Strong define a program to such an extent that assistant hires can't seem to make up deficits.  Even Mack gave evidence of this principle. 

I'm surprised that Herman has sucked this year. It caught me off guard which is very rare. I thought he made the right moves except for not pushing for the LB from Arizona and the DE and OT with draft potential from small schools. And even then, I thought it was to prevent the transfer of other good players.

[TwiceHorn 31283]

15 minutes ago, Bevo said:

I'm surprised that Herman has sucked this year. It caught me off guard which is very rare. I thought he made the right moves except for not pushing for the LB from Arizona and the DE and OT with draft potential from small schools. And even then, I thought it was to prevent the transfer of other good players.

I think the shortened off-season conspired against the new hires to make the things I mentioned above even more "self-fulfilling" than they would have otherwise been.

But it seems like we can create a pretty ironclad rule that a new guy that comes in with a blank check and makes shit initial hires is most likely done, ab initio.

As jimmyjazz likes to say, As hire As.  Bs hire Cs.  The current crop is probably actually half decent left to their own devices, but the die was already cast.

Edited October 12, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[EastTexan 662]

8 hours ago, MIkeHoncho said:

we would need 4 more wins in 6 games.  My best guess is below.  

KSU = L

OSU = L

KU = W

ISU = Tossup (leaning L)

WVU = Tossup (leaning W)

BU = Tossup 

Who gives a fuck. Herman's' got to be gone, even if we win out.

[Goredho 17349]

Tom Herman is Charlie Weis without the eating disorder.

[EastTexan 662]

8 hours ago, Blotto said:

Finally? That shit was weird as fuck from day one. How many of you guys are in the habit of letting men like your boss kiss on you? You think Coach Elliot could get away with that crap with the volleyball squad? 

Ain't homo tho.

[CooterBrown 17913]

I think that [mention=185]South Austin[/mention] mom is going to have to give more than 37 blowjobs to get this done. Sorry. I know you love your mom.
 

That’s a Tuesday morning at his mom’s house.

[Burt Macklin 18998]

1 hour ago, Bevo said:

I'm surprised that Herman has sucked this year. It caught me off guard which is very rare. I thought he made the right moves except for not pushing for the LB from Arizona and the DE and OT with draft potential from small schools. And even then, I thought it was to prevent the transfer of other good players.

Remember when you said we’d be fine after the Tech game? That post was hilarious at the time, but it’s aged even worse than I could have imagined. 

 

[Liquor and Poker 3659]

8 hours ago, Blotto said:

Finally? That shit was weird as fuck from day one. How many of you guys are in the habit of letting men like your boss kiss on you? You think Coach Elliot could get away with that crap with the volleyball squad? 

That was such a red flag. But we (or at least I) so wanted to believe that we just pushed right past it.  
 

I am shocked actually that more fun wasn’t made of that by our many detractors. 

[Longboard Horn 40145]

 

[PilotsError 2282]

that account has never been funny once.

[Liquor and Poker 3659]

7 minutes ago, PilotsError said:

that account has never been funny once.

It’s almost like they’re trying not to be funny

[Enchubben 5509]

28 minutes ago, Liquor and Poker said:

That was such a red flag. But we (or at least I) so wanted to believe that we just pushed right past it.  
 

I am shocked actually that more fun wasn’t made of that by our many detractors. 

There's been plenty of great teams that struggle with one game to a much lesser opponent and then go on to turn it around and get better each and every week and win their conference etc.  If people were holding onto hope that is probably why, but yea in hindsight, we should have known that Herman's teams don't do that. 

[Liquor and Poker 3659]

7 hours ago, Helobious said:

Saw a stat yesterday that Saban at Bama has won 93 straight games vs unranked opponents. Haven’t lost to one since 2007. Herman’s lost to two in the past 2 weeks.

Well, yeah.  Worse coach coaching worse team will do that. 

[Liquor and Poker 3659]

1 minute ago, Enchubben said:

There's been plenty of great teams that struggle with one game to a much lesser opponent and then go on to turn it around and get better each and every week and win their conference etc.  If people were holding onto hope that is probably why, but yea in hindsight, we should have known that Herman's teams don't do that. 

Wait-we were talking about the kissing thing, weren’t we?  I was. 

[MonkeyDoughnut 10145]

[JFKFC 4878]

The spotlight is on CDC. Is this a litmus test, a gut-check moment or something else for him? If we all don't use the proper terminology, I will freak out. 

[Liquor and Poker 3659]

7 minutes ago, JFKFC said:

The spotlight is on CDC. Is this a litmus test, a gut-check moment or something else for him? If we all don't use the proper terminology, I will freak out. 

He’s standing on the precipice. A career-defining moment. Now we will really find out what he’s made of.  It’s put up or shut up time. He needs to shit or get off the pot.  Fish or cut bait. 

[Dbeasy 14969]

Herman’s biggest mistakes that will end his head coaching career at Texas prematurely:

1. OL recruiting and coaching - all great teams must have a strong inside to complement the outside. Herman has never had the right coaches in place on the OL to both recruit and coach well. Killer issue.

2. OC/offense - made a poor choice and managed the whole situation poorly. Yurcich has shown up probably too late to save him, and on my opinion he should have embraced air raid derivative offenses, like Mack Brown did at NC.

3. DC Management - I actually believe Orlando is a solid coach but a good manager would have forced him to look much earlier at four man fronts to complement his innovative schemes, and other ideas to contain the wild big 12 offenses better.

4. WR Coach - absolute disaster selection initially, and not clear whether the current choice can fix the position fast enough in both recruiting and coaching.

5. LB recruiting and coaching - a disaster for the first several years. Who knows whether it will improve from here on out.

6. Personality and Culture - by all accounts he’s an ass, he’s weird, and the culture approach he’s taken has significant flaws.

Add all that up and you have a massively underperforming program.

[Liquor and Poker 3659]

2 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

Herman’s biggest mistakes that will end his head coaching career at Texas prematurely:

1. OL recruiting and coaching - all great teams must have a strong inside to complement the outside. Herman has never had the right coaches in place on the OL to both recruit and coach well. Killer issue.

2. OC/offense - made a poor choice and managed the whole situation poorly. Yurcich has shown up probably too late to save him, and on my opinion he should have embraced air raid derivative offenses, like Mack Brown did at NC.

3. DC Management - I actually believe Orlando is a solid coach but a good manager would have forced him to look much earlier at four man fronts to complement his innovative schemes, and other ideas to contain the wild big 12 offenses better.

4. WR Coach - absolute disaster selection initially, and not clear whether the current choice can fix the position fast enough in both recruiting and coaching.

5. LB recruiting and coaching - a disaster for the first several years. Who knows whether it will improve from here on out.

6. Personality and Culture - by all accounts he’s an ass, he’s weird, and the culture approach he’s taken has significant flaws.

Add all that up and you have a massively underperforming program.

1. Coaching 

2. Everything else

[TreatyOak 16150]

Edited October 12, 2020 by TreatyOak

[ztejas 43266]

3 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

Herman’s biggest mistakes that will end his head coaching career at Texas prematurely:

1. OL recruiting and coaching - all great teams must have a strong inside to complement the outside. Herman has never had the right coaches in place on the OL to both recruit and coach well. Killer issue.

2. OC/offense - made a poor choice and managed the whole situation poorly. Yurcich has shown up probably too late to save him, and on my opinion he should have embraced air raid derivative offenses, like Mack Brown did at NC.

3. DC Management - I actually believe Orlando is a solid coach but a good manager would have forced him to look much earlier at four man fronts to complement his innovative schemes, and other ideas to contain the wild big 12 offenses better.

4. WR Coach - absolute disaster selection initially, and not clear whether the current choice can fix the position fast enough in both recruiting and coaching.

5. LB recruiting and coaching - a disaster for the first several years. Who knows whether it will improve from here on out.

6. Personality and Culture - by all accounts he’s an ass, he’s weird, and the culture approach he’s taken has significant flaws.

Add all that up and you have a massively underperforming program.

I don't think we need to break it down piece by piece like this is some hard decision and that we need to "move in a different direction".

He fucking sucks. I want him out. I dont care why he sucks at this point or what he could have done differently - he didn't do those things. Winning 8 games at Texas is so. fucking. easy. Or at least it should be. Top 10 recruiting classes come here almost by default. We fired Mack for winning 8 games. Fucking John Mackovic won a B12 title here. 

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2630]

Fired yet?

[Horn Dogg 3808]

15 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

Herman’s biggest mistakes that will end his head coaching career at Texas prematurely:

1. OL recruiting and coaching - all great teams must have a strong inside to complement the outside. Herman has never had the right coaches in place on the OL to both recruit and coach well. Killer issue.

2. OC/offense - made a poor choice and managed the whole situation poorly. Yurcich has shown up probably too late to save him, and on my opinion he should have embraced air raid derivative offenses, like Mack Brown did at NC.

3. DC Management - I actually believe Orlando is a solid coach but a good manager would have forced him to look much earlier at four man fronts to complement his innovative schemes, and other ideas to contain the wild big 12 offenses better.

4. WR Coach - absolute disaster selection initially, and not clear whether the current choice can fix the position fast enough in both recruiting and coaching.

5. LB recruiting and coaching - a disaster for the first several years. Who knows whether it will improve from here on out.

6. Personality and Culture - by all accounts he’s an ass, he’s weird, and the culture approach he’s taken has significant flaws.

Add all that up and you have a massively underperforming program.

Cliffs notes version - repeatedly losing games he shouldn’t.

[jinx 2635]

14 minutes ago, TreatyOak said:

I can't wait to hear how yesterday went!  I bet there was a lot of accountability (whatever that actually means)

[Rockethorn1978 6061]

There’s a zero chance Herman gets fired today. I can’t believe some of y’all are seriously thinking it will happen. 
 

If he gets fired it will be at seasons end.

[mdmost 42865]

Now, now. Don't go inserting reality into this rage thread. 

[Bevo 13527]

1 hour ago, Burt Macklin said:

Remember when you said we’d be fine after the Tech game? That post was hilarious at the time, but it’s aged even worse than I could have imagined. 

 

I think you have the wrong poster. I didn't even watch the game because I had patients and I didn't want to be pissed off all weekend. 

[ztejas 43266]

3 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

There’s a zero chance Herman gets fired today. I can’t believe some of y’all are seriously thinking it will happen. 
 

If he gets fired it will be at seasons end.

Probably true. But he ain't coaching in 2021. Unless CDC wants to lose the entire fan base.

At some point this shit hurts what students UT is getting through the door, too.

[BurntOrange&White 39661]

5 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

There’s a zero chance Herman gets fired today. I can’t believe some of y’all are seriously thinking it will happen. 
 

If he gets fired it will be at seasons end.

The bye week is the best time to fire him. No point in keeping a lame duck coach to the end of the season. Especially with early signing period in recruiting now. 
 

you’re probably right though. 
 

it’s best to move on and begin the search/hiring process to salvage the 2021 class and start working their 2022 class 

Edited October 12, 2020 by Bevo VIII

[Texas7 3]

Listen no matter what happens which I’m hoping Herman is fired. You have to hope Sam comes back next year.. You don’t want to just give the keys to Hudson Card when you have Quinn Ewers coming in. And if he’s as good as advertised, that would give him a chance at a QB battle with Card once Sam leaves. 

[Blotto 23434]

19 minutes ago, TreatyOak said:

If I had seen that exact graphic on TexasSports this morning, I wouldn't have been all that surprised. I mean, it should shock me, but the "our shit doesn't stink, we're Texas" bullshit we've heard out of Bellmont the last 10 years is so predictable. Results don't matter, fundraising and PR do. 

[SA-KC_Horn 1295]

At least our piss is at a championship level.

[Herpa Derpa 6112]

52 minutes ago, Liquor and Poker said:

It’s almost like they’re trying not to be funny

Ah, now I get it.  They're the Tom Herman of comedians.

[Ghost of Stevie Ray 1577]

Here’s where I’m at on Monday morning:
 

Tom had to realize how big this game was for his future at Texas.  Even for all his arrogance, the drums of hot seat have been banging for a year.  AND you’re coming off two horrid games.

AND HE STILL COULDNT GET HIS TEAM PREPARED FOR AN EXTREMELY WINNABLE GAME.  
 

It’s over for Tom and I truly hope CDC doesn’t elongate the inevitable.  

[Rockethorn1978 6061]

I didn’t say I didn’t want it to happen, I’m saying cdc isn’t the type of guy to fire mid season. Just doesn’t seem his style at all, it’s gonna be at seasons end which will roll into a “coaching search” process and multiple candidates even if he knows he wants urban he will still do the process stuff. Similar to the long process of hiring a OC and DC. 
 

I know we all want a cut throat AD that just flat out says “I want Urban” and hires him 1 day later but so far that doesn’t seem to be CDC at all. 

[Bill Lumbergh 7170]

He’s standing on the precipice. A career-defining moment. Now we will really find out what he’s made of.  It’s put up or shut up time. He needs to shit or get off the pot.  Fish or cut bait. 

What's funny is that the answer is abundantly clear. If you get us out of this shit with Herman and get Meyer in the door, you're the hero no matter how it plays out. Seriously. If Meyer comes here and fails, will anyone really blame CDC?

The bad answers are 1) keep Herman, or 2) fire him with plans to bring someone like Campbell or Patterson in, in that order.

Every year we sit at the top of that profitable programs list. That's great. Let's use it. We have the need, the solution is available, and we have the means. The best way to coordinate it all is actual work, but the strategy here is pretty simple.

[BurntOrange&White 39661]

Just now, Rockethorn1978 said:

I didn’t say I didn’t want it to happen, I’m saying cdc isn’t the type of guy to fire mid season. Just doesn’t seem his style at all, it’s gonna be at seasons end which will roll into a “coaching search” process and multiple candidates even if he knows he wants urban he will still do the process stuff. Similar to the long process of hiring a OC and DC. 
 

I know we all want a cut throat AD that just flat out says “I want Urban” and hires him 1 day later but so far that doesn’t seem to be CDC at all. 

And that’s why we are a shit program. Any reasonable athletic department that takes football serious would fire him mid season. Keeping him around until after the season just to fire him literally does not good and causes more harm. 

[mdmost 42865]

Ha. He's 2-2, not 0-4 or 1-3. Get me a list of non-shit programs that fire their coach mid season. I'll wait. 

Bottom line, Veruca. He's not getting fired until the end of the season, regardless of how much you stomp your feet and want it now. 

Edited October 12, 2020 by mdmost

[BurntOrange&White 39661]

9 hours ago, Hook1997 said:

Could you give the long story short version of what a UH punter has to say about coaching??......  I’m not listening to a punter talk for a hour to get whatever hot take he had.  I made it 5-10 and didn’t hear shit worth listening to.  Never was a fan of the Tom hire but find it hard to believe that a Aussie punter has a must listen hour long podcast for a hot take on coaching a sport he knew nothing about before punting for UH.

The long story short is Herman quit on the UH team about midway through the season when he knew he was going to be leaving for us/lsu at the time. 
 

all the players noticed his attitude changed and seemed disengaged with them. 

[Nueces River Rat 5529]

5 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

There’s a zero chance Herman gets fired today. I can’t believe some of y’all are seriously thinking it will happen. 
 

If he gets fired it will be at seasons end.

Maybe a few weeks before seasons end if the rest of October is a carbon copy of last Saturday.      Especially if Okie State dog stomps us or if we lose to WVU at Home.   And saying that may it be "Rout 66" style in either one.  This  will without any doubt move the needle quickly.

[Mo Horn 8807]

2 minutes ago, Texas7 said:

Listen no matter what happens which I’m hoping Herman is fired. You have to hope Sam comes back next year.. You don’t want to just give the keys to Hudson Card when you have Quinn Ewers coming in. And if he’s as good as advertised, that would give him a chance at a QB battle with Card once Sam leaves. 

 At this point, I'm worried about Quinn, and all other recruits sticking around. 

[ztejas 43266]

7 minutes ago, Texas7 said:

And if he’s as good as advertised, that would give him a chance at a QB battle with Card once Sam leaves. 

Lol. QB battle? Have you seen this kid play? Maybe we RS him but he's starting from day one after that afaic. 

That is if he doesn't decommit.

[BurntOrange&White 39661]

1 minute ago, mdmost said:

Ha. He's 2-2, not 0-4 or 1-3. Get me a list of non-shit programs that fire their coach mid season. I'll wait. 

Bottom line, Veruca. He's not getting fired until the end of the season, regardless of how much you stomp your feet and want it now. 

And that’s a problem. This 2021 recruiting class is a toast if we wait until after the season. 
 

were fucked if we don’t fire mid season just because dynamics of recruiting now days. 

[UTEX_ME 4754]

19 minutes ago, jinx said:

I can't wait to hear how yesterday went!  I bet there was a lot of accountability (whatever that actually means)

unfortunately an off week means no Herman today.. lucky bastard. 

[Bevo 13527]

24 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I don't think we need to break it down piece by piece like this is some hard decision and that we need to "move in a different direction".

He fucking sucks. I want him out. I dont care why he sucks at this point or what he could have done differently - he didn't do those things. Winning 8 games at Texas is so. fucking. easy. Or at least it should be. Top 10 recruiting classes come here almost by default. We fired Mack for winning 8 games. Fucking John Mackovic won a B12 title here. 

What fun is that? I love to analyze shit. Early in Mack's career I was speaking with some ex-players and they felt he had to go. I said that as long as he hired good assistants (like our OC, CTJ) and didn't meddle that it was possible to be a CEO type coach and handle the donors, media, and university issues and leave it to the assistants to coach. It worked for awhile but ultimately failed as the assistants got lazy and the head coach had little idea how to identify and fix issues. Strong, well he was hopeless from the start. Herman is a different animal. I thought he was a good offensive mind. I thought his second hires were pretty good (not home runs, though) outside of WR coach. I thought we had a pretty good off-season compared to most schools and I thought we had lots of returning talent. And yet, we sucked. 

[FloridaHorn 4735]

9 minutes ago, SA-KC_Horn said:

At least our piss is at a championship level.

Yep, you see it running down Herman’s leg on the sideline

[mdmost 42865]

1 minute ago, Bevo VIII said:

And that’s a problem. This 2021 recruiting class is a toast if we wait until after the season. 
 

were fucked if we don’t fire mid season just because dynamics of recruiting now days. 

Or Ewers decommits the second you fire Herman mid-season. Firing Herman isn't going to improve recruiting until his replacement is announced and is calling players. CDC is not going to fire a guy who still has the possibility of having a winning season. It won't happen but it's a possibility. 

Edited October 12, 2020 by mdmost

[Bill Lumbergh 7170]

Ha. He's 2-2, not 0-4 or 1-3. Get me a list of non-shit programs that fire their coach mid season. I'll wait. 

First, he's 2-2 but really damn close to 1-3 or 0-3 in games that matter at all. These weren't flukey games, either. These were three games where we were completely unprepared against inferior talent. They've all been lost or nearly lost on scheme and preparation.

Second, I know mid season firings have always been something major programs are "above," but I seriously doubt that will be the case going forward with the new early signing period. If your current coach will drag your recruiting and you believe your new coach will boost them, it's objectively the right thing to do to cut ties early.

The only other consideration is if you think firing early will hurt an otherwise promising season, but no one considering firing their coach is having one of those.