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Tom "the turtle" Herman [Lame Duck or greatest 5d chess player ever?]

Neonmoon

By Neonmoon
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Bill Lumbergh

Bill Lumbergh 7170

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I think the "next loss" thing is just cover bc we don't have the replacement lined up yet. If Urban was done, I don't think Tom coaches another game.

 

I think the decision is already made, it's just about timing. If it takes us a bit to get the next person lined up, we wait to fire Tom until it's done. Having a lame duck coach or an interim coach both destabilize your program, recruiting, etc. It's not like firing him now and having no answers about who replaces him is a great story to tell.

 

Wait until you know who the next person is, and then just let Tom naturally lose another game to trigger the final action.

 

That's what I hope is really going on, anyway.

 

 

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ztejas

ztejas 43263

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1 hour ago, 927 E. 41st said:

If Tom were fired today (I get endorphins just writing that). Which Tom would we see? the Tom that is trying to position for his next gig? Or the immature double bird at the camera, spring bullets on the way out the door Tom? I mean, I'm good with either one of those scenarios.

Don't care. Tom gone = me happy long time 

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BurntOrange&White

BurntOrange&White 39655

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3 minutes ago, Bill Lumbergh said:

I think the "next loss" thing is just cover bc we don't have the replacement lined up yet. If Urban was done, I don't think Tom coaches another game.

 

I think the decision is already made, it's just about timing. If it takes us a bit to get the next person lined up, we wait to fire Tom until it's done. Having a lame duck coach or an interim coach both destabilize your program, recruiting, etc. It's not like firing him now and having no answers about who replaces him is a great story to tell.

 

Wait until you know who the next person is, and then just let Tom naturally lose another game to trigger the final action.

 

That's what I hope is really going on, anyway.

 

 

I’m looking at the next built in bye week after West Virginia. We have a month to figure Urban and make a decision. 
 

I think it’s not in our best interest to drag this out into December with early signing period. 

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Hiphopopotamos

Hiphopopotamos 20865

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1 minute ago, Bill Lumbergh said:

I hope I'm wrong, but I think the "next loss" thing is just cover bc we don't have the replacement lined up yet. If Urban was done, I don't think Tom coaches another game.

I think the decision is already made, it's just about timing. If it takes us a bit to get the next person lined up, we wait to fire Tom until it's done. Having a lame duck coach or an interim coach both destabilize your program, recruiting, etc. It's not like firing him now and having no answers about who replaces him is a great story to tell.

Wait until you know who the next person is, and then just let Tom naturally lose another game to trigger the final action.

That's what I hope is really going on, anyway.

Yep - the longer this stretches out the worse an already shaky recruiting class is going to get.  If this isn't Urban, and we have to wait until the end of the season to hire a currently employed coach, then we can pretty much write-off the 2021 class.  Regardless, whoever is coaching this team next season is going to need to hit the transfer portal with a vengeance.

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UncleBuck

UncleBuck 6445

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Bill Lumbergh said:

I think the "next loss" thing is just cover bc we don't have the replacement lined up yet. If Urban was done, I don't think Tom coaches another game.

Kinda what it feels like to me. Feels like it's possible he's gone immediately after the next loss, but that he's being allowed to walk around dead for now because a replacement is not locked in. Not sure I agree with the approach or not, but optics and such. 

Edited by UncleBuck
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MIkeHoncho

MIkeHoncho 1895

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8 minutes ago, Bill Lumbergh said:

I think the "next loss" thing is just cover bc we don't have the replacement lined up yet. If Urban was done, I don't think Tom coaches another game.

 

This.  If the "next loss" thing is true, it just means contract negotiations are on-going with Urbs. 

On a side note, when this site was down for a long time on Sunday, I was so hopeful it was due to volume from a mensa firing that I actually thought I might see the "its happening" gif as the first thing when it came back up.  So sad that wasn't the case. 

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 48970

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5 minutes ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

Yep - the longer this stretches out the worse an already shaky recruiting class is going to get.  If this isn't Urban, and we have to wait until the end of the season to hire a currently employed coach, then we can pretty much write-off the 2021 class.  Regardless, whoever is coaching this team next season is going to need to hit the transfer portal with a vengeance.

If the 2021 HORNS Recruiting Class shrinks, a new transfer rule for 2021 could really help a new TEXAS Head Coach fill existing roster holes...

 

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closetohumping

closetohumping 17400

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12 minutes ago, The Earl of Texas said:

It will be interesting to see how we find our other two or three losses this year. Will it be from the same old shit? Or will new cracks emerge as his control over the team erodes to none? Tune in each week to find out.

You know what's odd?  As disorganized as he is, as shitty as our game plan is, as much as his players probably hate him, we're never blown out?  In 3.5 years, no 65-13 or 66-3 (sorry).  I'm shocked that hasn't happened multiple times.

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Hank_Hill

Hank_Hill 18490

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3 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

You know what's odd?  As disorganized as he is, as shitty as our game plan is, as much as his players probably hate him, we're never blown out?  In 3.5 years, no 65-13 or 66-3 (sorry).  I'm shocked that hasn't happened multiple times.

Because our base talent level provides a pretty high floor. 

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Bill Lumbergh

Bill Lumbergh 7170

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An interim coach is better than this next loss bullshit.  LSU fired Les Miles mid season after a loss to Auburn and made Orgeron interim head coach specifically so they could avoid Les stringing a couple of wins together during a soft part of their schedule, which would only make the firing more controversial and potentially harder to execute at all.
Knowing there will be someone new next year, even if it’s TBD, is still better than being in limbo about whether Herman is returning and letting him control things until right up to signing day essentially.
Here's me consciously debating whether having an obvious lame duck coach leading the program is better or worse than an interim coach with no announced successor:
LyD.gif
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WinningIsHard

WinningIsHard 4017

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1 hour ago, jinx said:

So I stood right next to her and her kids for a Gator walk in 2008.  She was very nice and talked briefly with my wife and I.  Casually dressed without a lot of makeup and very friendly and open.  Attractive in a girl next door kind of way.

The lady that was on the stand with Urban when he won the NC at OSU looked nothing like the lady I spoke with in 2008.  I remember stopping the video and showing my wife how different she looked.

This shit has changed her, and she will definitely be a strong NO in Urban coming here if I was to guess (since we are basically friends now based on that one interaction 12 years ago).

Best I could do with the googles

image.png.5500115bd48faa75ba53a8322c1d0e96.png

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Does not smile with her eyes, Do not want 

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Liquor and Poker

Liquor and Poker 3659

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3 hours ago, ATLLonghorn said:

That is totally fair, but let's ignore all of that for a second.

He led to Minnesota to their first 11 win season in a century. He led Western Michigan to their first ten win season in school history. I think it's an easy argument to say those are both more impressive feats than what Herman did at Houston especially because Herman inherited the Houston roster.

So why was PJ Fleck able to do what he did at those two places? Is it because he's an X's and O's guy or because he's a program building guy? 

I'm talking philosophical coaching styles here and not any one specific candidate. The next Texas coach needs to be dynamic in a lot of ways. I think the program builder/CEO type coach provided he puts the right staff in place is what Texas needs. I think Urban Meyer is a fantasy.

 

I’m not saying you are wrong.  I’m saying we currently have a coach who’s a bit off-putting and creepy. I’d rather not have another this soon.  So he’s not my first choice. 

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Happy Gilmore

Happy Gilmore 1001

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26 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Tom Herman is a toxic individual. You can’t allow his type around a program if you don’t plan on keeping him. According to former Houston players he quit on them in his final season there.  
 

 

Feels like he quit after the sugar bow for us. Motherfucker got way to comfortable 

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Nueces River Rat

Nueces River Rat 5529

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2 hours ago, ztejas said:

Can't remember the last time we got booed in the Cotton Bowl. Even in 2016 there were no boos (that I can recall). And that was when I became completely convinced Charlie wasn't the guy.

I would've hated to see the reaction  with the Cotton Bowl at normal capacity.  Granted a number of our fans might have left to go get drunk as it looked like OU was going to win .  Still a number of people would have stuck around I imagine.

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WinningIsHard

WinningIsHard 4017

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Good Morning Horns247!!

 

- With his team averaging nearly 10 flags for 83.2 yards per game, Texas coach Tom Herman is now ready to punish players for committing "foolish" penalties.

"Guys that commit foolish penalties will be punished going forward," Herman said. "I've never been a part of a program that does that. But some of our new coaches have. So, moving forward we'll punish foolish penalties. It's the only thing left that we know how to do. We have educated. We have pleaded until we're blue in the face."

Herman seemed to take up for center Derek Kerstetter, a captain, who shoved an Oklahoma defender after the play, earning a dead ball personal foul, after Sam Ehlinger had run to the OU 2 in the first half.

"Derek Kerstetter is a captain," Herman said. "No one is more sick about the penalty than him (Kerstetter). He was coming in to push the pile, not knowing that Sam was already down."

Replays might dispute that. But apparently that's what Kerstetter told Herman, and the coach is going with that.

 

- Tom Herman acknowledged running back Keaontay Ingram was benched after fumbling on his first carry of the Oklahoma game, resulting in Ingram getting only three carries (for 15 yards, 5.0 ypc) as UT struggled to establish any kind of ground game.

Before the OU game, Ingram was averaging nearly 11 carries per game for 57.7 yards (5.4 ypc). Against OU, Texas had only 13 carries for 38 yards (2.9 ypc) in the first half and just 17 carries for 29 yards (1.7 ypc) through three quarters (after rushing four times for minus-9 yards in the third).

"He (Ingram) was sick about it, and we felt it was important for him to take a step back for a little bit," Herman said of taking Ingram out of the game. "And then, obviously, when Roschon (Johnson) got re-injured, we inserted Keaontay back in the game. But, at that point, I think we were down 14 in the second half, and we weren't running the ball.

"He needed a break after losing the fumble on his very first carry to get his mind back to where it needed to be, and he did, to his credit. We put him back in, and we've got a ton of confidence in him."

Herman said the running game was affected by the offensive line taking a step back against a heavy dose of twists and stunts on first and second down (the same thing OU's Alex Grinch did to Texas last year). 

"No one up front played well against Oklahoma," Herman said. "I thought we made progress (on the offensive line) against TCU, but we definitely took  step back against Oklahoma."

Herman said offensive coordinator Mike Yurcich "has a plan" to get the running game jump-started that will get plenty of work in UT's off-week.

 

 

- Despite Baylor announcing Monday it has 28 active COVID-19 cases among players and 14 active cases among staff members, the hope is Baylor will be able to get back to game preparation this weekend for the Bears' game at Texas on Oct. 24.

Baylor has postponed its game scheduled for this Saturday (Oct. 17) against Oklahoma State until Dec. 12.

41COMMENTS

Bears athletic director Mack Rhoades told SicEm365 Radio Monday he believes someone on the team who had a false negative antigen test was allowed travel to West Virginia, where the Bears dropped a 27-21 double-overtime loss to the Mountaineers on Oct. 3.

WVU coach Neal Brown said his team has tested three times since the Baylor game and has experienced no new positive tests.

 

 

Fuck Chip Brown 

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BrazilHorn

BrazilHorn 6576

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The OL will all weigh 190lbs if Herman is going to start punishing players for shitty penalties by running them.

Here is the thing based on experience in management at a variety of levels:

It is far easier to start hard and then relax as people earn your respect via performance vs start lax and then try and become a hardass.

Herman is going about this completely backwards. By trying to be tough on the team's shitty play (penalties/bad decisions/quitting on team etc) now after having just let it happen for four years on his watch will not work and will only serve to make things worse.

He is showing his ass here and frankly his overall lack of knowing how to manage through adversity.

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Bill Lumbergh

Bill Lumbergh 7170

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If you think it will be “just as bad” if you fire him now as if he had a lost season and lost the team, don’t you fire him now?  
 
Or do you think he won’t lose the season and team and yet somehow he should still be fired?   That seems logically inconsistent.  
I think he'll be fired either way, but I also think firing and announcing a replacement very quickly is preferable to a long interim situation. If we can wait a bit to finalize his replacement I think that makes sense.

Neither option is great, clearly. I'd take fired, no matter how/when it goes down.
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Nueces River Rat

Nueces River Rat 5529

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Tom is going to punish players for committing stupid penalties????     whatever Tom.......   whatever man........

Tom---- How about BENCHING players who can't tackle worth a crap while you are at it?   

How in heck are four/five star players who could tackle in high school suddenly void of the ability two to three years into your program  no matter  who the DC and other D coaches are in place?

Could it be Tom?  Could it???

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Nivek

Nivek 16859

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1 hour ago, closetojumping said:

Unlike many, I guess, here, I'd take Matt Campbell as a consolation prize. I love the recruiting board and I've religiously followed college recruiting since childhood, but Herman and Strong have fully disavowed me of the belief that acquiring enough talent can overcome significant coaching deficiencies. At least with Campbell, we will see players getting developed while watching teams appearing well-coached versus their opponents. Can he win a national title? I don't know. Is he far better than most of the alternatives, I think so.

Matt isnt the guy.  Going from Herman to Matt is a lateral move and one to satisfy a temporary emotion.   Then in 3 years we would be bitching about how much we hate MC and how we need a new coach, and how much it will cost to pay off this one.   

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