Tom "the turtle" Herman [Lame Duck or greatest 5d chess player ever?]

[Not a cat 5,660]

Maybe I dreamt this in my head Crabtree style, but I could swear last fall after the Turtle shit the bed again, posters in the know said he was given very clear, concrete goals for 2020 in order to keep his job. It was never exactly clear to me what these goals were but they seemed to be actual stretch goals and not layups- something like crush OU, win conference, make playoffs, not be in bottom 10% in penalties, etc.

If that's the case, then why is firing herman even a question still?  And please don't say covid, it's not like that only hit central texas sparing other programs from disruption.

[Longboard Horn 40,378]

On 10/16/2020 at 4:09 PM, closetohumping said:

I haven't had a mcrib in years.  Wish i could get one.

mcrib will be back next month. 

[Hiphopopotamos 20,876]

6 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

He wants the job so I would assume the money would only have to be reasonable. What’s not clear to me is whether the money is lined up and whether the fire Herman decision is concrete or still in discussion. I don’t know but am guessing that the final decision is still not made and depends upon the next few weeks. More losses and looking ugly cements the decision. Eight game winning streak and looking great, I don’t know.

As an idiot and an outsider looking in - I guess my question would be - how long does Meyer 'wait'?  He's retired so its not as though the decision needs to be made today, but does he just sit back and wait for Tom to lose his next game so that maybe Texas fires him and it becomes available?  What happens if the unthinkable occurs and Tom wins out?  Does Meyer just walk away?

Are we to the point that both parties have expressed interest and ballpark dollars - and both sides are waiting for the inevitable next loss so things can be made official?

[Thiefery 5,015]

12 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

He wants the job so I would assume the money would only have to be reasonable. What’s not clear to me is whether the money is lined up and whether the fire Herman decision is concrete or still in discussion. I don’t know but am guessing that the final decision is still not made and depends upon the next few weeks. More losses and looking ugly cements the decision. Eight game winning streak and looking great, I don’t know.

Basing this off the Schaefer hire, CDC would pull the trigger if indeed Urban is on board to take over at Texas.  CDC apparently can fundraise like no other, I'm sure he can sell a few friends of the program on Meyer.  As far as the dark side of Meyer, I'm sure CDC can calm everyones fears by saying he is going to be watching, nothing bad happening under his watch.

[Longboard Horn 40,378]

On 10/16/2020 at 8:34 AM, TexasPride10 said:

It has been mentioned in passing a few times on this board, but I'm shocked Herman's "Family Fridays" haven't received more attention/scrutiny from the national media. I remember thinking it was a cool idea when Herman first got here. My thought was "Hell yea, the players are going to love playing for this guy which will make us dominant!". But now here we are 3.5 years later and we have a sufficient sample size to conclude that something Herman is doing just flat out isn't working. Yet somehow no one has focused in on the fact that our guys play fucking wiffle ball and freeze tag the day before every single game instead of working on their gameplan. The NCAA already limits the amount of time teams are allowed to practice each week, and we choose to purposely handicap ourselves by throwing out one of those limited days of practice? Fuck you, Tom. 

That family Friday is bullshit. The players would be better prepared and might actually win more games if they did away with that. Unless you're winning every week you don't deserve a "recess day."

[Wally Pryor 5,261]

Against my better judgement I'm listening to Herman's presser without any alcohol intake.  Says he's not going to make excuses.  Yet somehow finds a ways to mix them into almost all responses. Focused on fucking message boards and bestselling books.  2+ weeks later somehow trying to frame OU as win.   Double talk.   No real answers but plenty on nonsense.   And he's doing this with a media that's as soft as his team.  Imagine if Herman had to answer hard questions. 

Herman just a flat-out gimmick, all around.   Off the field.  His pressers. The product on the field. 

JFC.

 

 

 

[MonkeyDoughnut 10,322]

I feel like timing is everything if its going to be Urban. Meaning its got to be right for him, family, etc.

Hypothetical, if Urban says yeah I absolutely want and will take the job... but not before end of 2021 season, wants to watch sons Senior football season, would you wait for him?

[Leeroy Jenkins 2,409]

14 hours ago, Coelenterate Fuccboi said:

Don’t google her.

What about his side piece?  

[Burt Macklin 19,038]

1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

If you are Urban Meyer's agent, he will cost at least what Jimbo Fisher costs annually.

That’s not a big deal. jimbo’s annual salary isn’t crazy. It was the guaranteeing 10 years part. 

58 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Sure, but a guy like Fleck or Franklin would be looking at 6 right? 

 

25 minutes ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

By the time the school TV show and shoe deal are calculated in Franklin makes just over 7 million a year.  So its going to cost Texas more than 6 a year to get him away from PSU.  Assistant pay at PSU is much lower than current Texas assistants are making - so one of the benefits for Franklin (outside of his salary) would definitely be a better budget to pick/hire assistants.

Yep. Franklin ain’t leaving a for pay cut or even the same salary. He’ll be like 8 mil per year plus a 5 mil buyout and staff. There aren’t going to be any costs savings with Franklin. 

22 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

He wants the job so I would assume the money would only have to be reasonable. What’s not clear to me is whether the money is lined up and whether the fire Herman decision is concrete or still in discussion. I don’t know but am guessing that the final decision is still not made and depends upon the next few weeks. More losses and looking ugly cements the decision. Eight game winning streak and looking great, I don’t know.

How do you know this? urban/his family wanting the job seems like the biggest question mark in all of this to me. 
 

[Bevo 13,579]

8 minutes ago, Thiefery said:

As far as the dark side of Meyer, I'm sure CDC can calm everyones fears by saying he is going to be watching, nothing bad happening under his watch.

Pretty sure that Meyers left tOSU because he didn't like being reprimanded and micromanaged. Any hold-up in the contract would most likely be related to "oversight". 

[Laga4 1,270]

Certainly no inside info here,  but I don't see the BMD's being the problem on this deal. 

If I'm right then CDC need to get the deal done.  

Preferably before the end of the season. 

[TwiceHorn 31,507]

13 hours ago, texasstrong12 said:

That Gerry Hamilton list is terrible but after Urban it's just a guessing game. 

I can even recognize that Franklin has some warts and that's why Texas really needs to hire Urban. 

Yeah, because the options after Urb are terrible.  Or at least fairly unknown quantities.

[Burt Macklin 19,038]

2 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Pretty sure that Meyers left tOSU because he didn't like being reprimanded and micromanaged. Any hold-up in the contract would most likely be related to "oversight". 

That’s a weird way to say covering up for an assistant coach committing domestic abuse.  There isn’t going to be any contract language that saves him from that kind of thing, and he was doing just fine with the tOSU admin prior to that happening. 

[Bluemoon3287 56]

18 minutes ago, Longboard Horn said:

mcrib will be back next month. 

May I suggest Subway’s BBQ pork sandwich ? Apparently, they only have it like every other month.  If we could get McD’s and Subway to work together and alternate months, it would make dealing with Texas’ woes much more tolerable 

[MoJames 8,244]

If anyone was curious, it is all quiet re:CFB from the Sir Yacht angle.

[Longboard Horn 40,378]

4 minutes ago, MoJames said:

If anyone was curious, it is all quiet re:CFB from the Sir Yacht angle.

Maybe his yacht sank

[Bevo 13,579]

8 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

That’s a weird way to say covering up for an assistant coach committing domestic abuse.  There isn’t going to be any contract language that saves him from that kind of thing, and he was doing just fine with the tOSU admin prior to that happening. 

That is from the tOSU side. And, from what I recall, tOSU pretty much gave him a slap on the wrist. UM left because he didn't like being slapped on the wrist and the resultant "oversight".

[gsoda3 3,263]

if we're going to wait til the end of the season let's moneywhip dabo.  i mean crush him with a mountain of cash.  gold.  rhodium.  whatever he wants.  you won't find character issues there.

[LTtxfan 49,283]

 

21 minutes ago, Wally Pryor said:

Against my better judgement I'm listening to Herman's presser without any alcohol intake.  Says he's not going to make excuses.  Yet somehow finds a ways to mix them into almost all responses. Focused on fucking message boards and bestselling books.  2+ weeks later somehow trying to frame OU as win.   Double talk.   No real answers but plenty on nonsense.   And he's doing this with a media that's as soft as his team.  Imagine if Herman had to answer hard questions. 

Herman just a flat-out gimmick, all around.   Off the field.  His pressers. The product on the field. 

JFC.

 

 

 

Fyi on YouTube of presser...

JEFF HOWE:  "I'm not anticipating going back and watching this, but the run time is 34:34. I recorded the Zoom call and it was 47:33, so there's about 12 or so minutes that got cut out, including my question at the end about how bad Texas has been in the third quarter in Big 12 play."

 

[Longboard Horn 40,378]

1 minute ago, gsoda3 said:

if we're going to wait til the end of the season let's moneywhip dabo.  i mean crush him with a mountain of cash.  gold.  rhodium.  whatever he wants.  you won't find character issues there.

Dabo walks on water at Clemson. He's not going anywhere. 

[gsoda3 3,263]

1 minute ago, Longboard Horn said:

Dabo walks on water at Clemson. He's not going anywhere. 

water's cool til he realizes at texas he could walk on piles of gold.

[Not a cat 5,660]

Just now, gsoda3 said:

if we're going to wait til the end of the season let's moneywhip dabo.  i mean crush him with a mountain of cash.  gold.  rhodium.  whatever he wants.  you won't find character issues there.

Other than paying players and steroids...Look, I'd take Dabo in a heartbeat (spoiler alert-it ain't happening) but let's not act like he's a saint.  It's weird but every proven winner out there has a burning desire to win and also a few skeletons in his closet.

[Tex Pete 20,402]

52 minutes ago, Sir Ulrich said:

Oh great it will be either John Mackovic or Mike Stoops. 
 

I'm stunned. I'm pissed.

It's Johnny Mack.

[BurntOrange&White 39,934]

1 minute ago, Not a cat said:

Other than paying players and steroids...Look, I'd take Dabo in a heartbeat (spoiler alert-it ain't happening) but let's not act like he's a saint.  It's weird but every proven winner out there has a burning desire to win and also a few skeletons in his closet.

Imagine thinking we’re not paying 

[Tex Pete 20,402]

On the plus side, Blake Brockermeyer would be back in the fold.

[gsoda3 3,263]

4 minutes ago, Not a cat said:

Other than paying players and steroids...Look, I'd take Dabo in a heartbeat (spoiler alert-it ain't happening) but let's not act like he's a saint.  It's weird but every proven winner out there has a burning desire to win and also a few skeletons in his closet.

boosters here at texas are giving kids money too.  it's unavoidable.  you'd be surprised how widespread it is too, it's not just the uber rich boosters.  as for steroids i remember one incident from last year involving clemson but thought it was a mistake of some sort.  was there more?  

[Wally Pryor 5,261]

4 minutes ago, Longboard Horn said:

Dabo walks on water at Clemson. He's not going anywhere. 

I doubt he was being serious.  I hope Texas fans aren't delusional enough to think Swinney would even sniff Texas.    You don't leave well-oiled machines that are at the top of the sport, and positioned to continue that, to go try and clean up a country club culture that his simultaneously become a toxic clusterfuck. 

Swinney may be a devout Christian but he's not into charitable missions. 

[Tex Pete 20,402]

3 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

boosters here at texas are giving kids money too.  it's unavoidable.  you'd be surprised how widespread it is too, it's not just the uber rich boosters.  as for steroids i remember one incident from last year involving clemson but thought it was a mistake of some sort.  was there more?  

Uh, right.

[gsoda3 3,263]

1 minute ago, Wally Pryor said:

I doubt he was being serious. 

half serious.  i'm frustrated it's taking so long to fire TH.  i wanted him out last year.  i'm at the point where if we don't do anything til the end of the season we might as well throw out a feeler to dabo though i highly doubt he'd come.  gotta avoid upsetting the urbs tho.  

[Burt Macklin 19,038]

9 minutes ago, Bevo said:

That is from the tOSU side. And, from what I recall, tOSU pretty much gave him a slap on the wrist. UM left because he didn't like being slapped on the wrist and the resultant "oversight".

Right. That’s my point. It wasn’t a systemic thing, and he wasn’t being micromanaged. tOSU gave him a ton of leeway until he proved he couldn’t handle the situation correctly himself and they had to step in. tOSU was extremely lenient with him, but Urban’s an arrogant asshole and couldn’t even handle the slap in the wrist.

If that’s the kind of “oversight,” he can’t handle, I don’t know what kind of language he’d even be looking for, but UT is not going to put anything in his contract that prevents them from stepping in in a similar situation, and I doubt any other school Urban wants to coach at would either. 

[Not a cat 5,660]

5 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

Right. That’s my point. It wasn’t a systemic thing, and he wasn’t being micromanaged. tOSU gave him a ton of leeway until he proved he couldn’t handle the situation correctly himself and they had to step in. tOSU was extremely lenient with him, but Urban’s an arrogant asshole and couldn’t even handle the slap in the wrist.

If that’s the kind of “oversight,” he can’t handle, I don’t know what kind of language he’d even be looking for, but UT is not going to put anything in his contract that prevents them from stepping in in a similar situation, and I doubt any other school Urban wants to coach at would either. 

There's one I can think of.  And God help us all if that happens.

[C-Man 27,234]

10 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

boosters here at texas are giving kids money too.  it's unavoidable.  you'd be surprised how widespread it is too, it's not just the uber rich boosters.  as for steroids i remember one incident from last year involving clemson but thought it was a mistake of some sort.  was there more?  

Pretty sure Clemson had like 3-4 players suspended from the semifinal or championship game a few seasons ago because of failed drug tests. One was the stud DL Lawrence -- first name escapes me.

9 minutes ago, Wally Pryor said:

I doubt he was being serious.  I hope Texas fans aren't delusional enough to think Swinney would even sniff Texas.    You don't leave well-oiled machines that are at the top of the sport, and positioned to continue that, to go try and clean up a country club culture that his simultaneously become a toxic clusterfuck. 

Swinney may be a devout Christian but he's not into charitable missions. 

This. I follow Clemson pretty closely since my wife is a grad. He's set up there to be CFP-caliber for at least the next four years if he does nothing more (a la Late Stage Mack). He ain't leaving that. The only threat to him leaving Clemson is when Saban hangs it up at Bama and I still don't think Dabo leaves Clemson for that gig.

[Bevo 13,579]

2 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

Right. That’s my point. It wasn’t a systemic thing, and he wasn’t being micromanaged. tOSU gave him a ton of leeway until he proved he couldn’t handle the situation correctly himself and they had to step in. tOSU was extremely lenient with him, but Urban’s an arrogant asshole and couldn’t even handle the slap in the wrist.

If that’s the kind of “oversight,” he can’t handle, I don’t know what kind of language he’d even be looking for, but UT is not going to put anything in his contract that prevents them from stepping in in a similar situation, and I doubt any other school Urban wants to coach at would either. 

We agree. My only additional point is that if Urban is unable to get reassurances on paper, he sure as hell will make sure that he feels comfortable with his bosses. Money won't be an issue and I don't think family will be an issue (I'm pretty sure he rules his household). If there is an issue it will be on the personal side of things. 

[Herpa Derpa 6,126]

17 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

On the plus side, Blake Brockermeyer would be back in the fold.

Fuck Blake.*

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Not to be confused with elation at getting Tommy (and James) in the program.

[Rimbo 25,985]

8 hours ago, Treefidy said:

Top.  Men.

[dcar00 14,288]

16 hours ago, George Clooney said:

I agree with @texasstrong12 that Franklin is the most proven choice if Meyer says no. There are several things to like and dislike about his program in State College so far. One thing to like is their evaluation and development of players. They’ve had 17 players picked in the past three drafts, and they’ll likely have about six more picked in ‘21. He made a great hire at DC in Brent Pry. He’s had mixed results at OC, and assuming Ciarrocca works out, he’d be 2/4 there. He hasn’t quite locked down PA in recruiting, and that’s especially evident in the ‘21 class because they’re only going to get 1/10 of the state’s top prospects. 
 

I think he’s like Mack in terms of just coaching football. He isn’t like him off the field in recruiting and dealing with boosters because he rubs a lot of people the wrong way. However, it’s not so bad that it negatively affects the trajectory of their team; it just limits their ceiling. Additionally, they’ve had drug issues up there. From what I can tell, it’s not a huge issue because the worst players have been caught with is LSD (and I think it was just two players, but I could be wrong). One thing he handled really well was the 2016 offseason with respect to team leadership. He could tell before camp that several players in the locker room didn’t respect him and the team captains, and he put his ego aside and just listened to them in order to gain their trust back.

I’d really like to see him leave PSU because it’d possibly make Greg Schiano’s job easier, but the Rutgers job is difficult no matter what so it’s not like it’d actually help. 

if you lived in state college you'd have drug issues too...

[Rimbo 25,985]

1 hour ago, Longboard Horn said:

mcrib will be back next month. 

That's the first bit of verifiable positive news in this entire thread.

[Bill Lumbergh 7,171]

Only two reasons I can think of for not firing mensa already:

1) If he's been told you need to win the conference or it's your job, he statically still has a chance and maybe he's asked for that. At some point, based on our current trajectory, that will no longer be true and he will have failed at one of the requirements to keep his job this season. He might not be fired until we're statistically out of the big 12 race.

2) We don't want to fire him until the next guy is lined up. This one feels more likely to me. I think if someone like Urban was locked up, Tom would be out the door based on results so far, but I don't think even the biggest pessimist among us could've predicted a worse start to this season. Our search has probably escalated very quickly, but not surprising it's not done yet, and from a stability standpoint having the job open for as short a time as possible seems preferable.

I believe he'll be fired before the season ends, and I think due to the early signing period, mid season firings will become more the norm. We're just one of the first big programs to need to fire a coach since the early period started, so it still feels unusual.

[BabaYaga 15,301]

4 minutes ago, Bill Lumbergh said:

2) We don't want to fire him until the next guy is lined up. This one feels more likely to me. I think if someone like Urban was locked up, Tom would be out the door based on results so far, but I don't think even the biggest pessimist among us could've predicted a worse start to this season. Our search has probably escalated very quickly, but not surprising it's not done yet, and from a stability standpoint having the job open for as short a time as possible seems preferable.

Agreed.  We've been down the path of missed coaches we anticipated would be landed.  We saw this with Mack and how we had go through a number of options after Mack was let go and the optics were not great.  Not again.  

[David Dennison 18,925]

57 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Imagine thinking we’re not paying 

We really suck at it.

[Getafix 28,683]

7 minutes ago, Bill Lumbergh said:

2) We don't want to fire him until the next guy is lined up. This one feels more likely to me. I think if someone like Urban was locked up, Tom would be out the door based on results so far, but I don't think even the biggest pessimist among us could've predicted a worse start to this season.

 Umm ... 

[NoName 16,356]

1 hour ago, Longboard Horn said:

Dabo walks on water at Clemson. He's not going anywhere. 

we will see if that happens when Momma calls.

[TX SPLEEN 14]

So we get Urbs, who is the OC? Guessing Ash would get a look at DC still.

[Guest Lobo]

1 hour ago, Bluemoon3287 said:

May I suggest Subway’s BBQ pork sandwich ? Apparently, they only have it like every other month.  If we could get McD’s and Subway to work together and alternate months, it would make dealing with Texas’ woes much more tolerable 

How would colo-rectal cancer make dealing with Texas football more tolerable?  

 

[Not a cat 5,660]

1 minute ago, Lobo said:

How would colo-rectal cancer make dealing with Texas football more tolerable?  

 

At this point, would it honestly make it any worse?

[6th Street 6,428]

12 hours ago, Rimbo said:

Who?

Top. Men.

[nnm 36,470]

19 minutes ago, 6th Street said:

Top. Men.

[Hiphopopotamos 20,876]

Ian Boyd / Geoff Ketchum slap fight:

 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Hiphopopotamos

[Bluemoon3287 56]

55 minutes ago, Lobo said:

How would colo-rectal cancer make dealing with Texas football more tolerable?  

 

That’s on me.  Until you posted I didn’t realize I had left the quote out.  Was replying to an earlier post - humorous in nature 

[alincoln 2,381]

2 minutes ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

Ian Boyd / Geoff Ketchum slap fight:

Ketch evidently has a Liverpool podcast.  The end times are actually here