Tom "the turtle" Herman [Lame Duck or greatest 5d chess player ever?]

[Dbeasy 15613]

I mean if we beat ou, they're not sprinting away from us.  But we're not beating ou, I have eyes.  We could beat tosu again, but ou is playing at a different speed.  I think he'll likely be fired for insubordination and 1-5 vs ou.  Ballgame.

I don’t think beating a two loss OU team in the CCG proves we are staying up with them. This was a rebuilding year for them, and was supposed to be a breakout year for us. Recruiting isn’t going the right direction vs them either for 2021. I don’t think the decision makers will let one win over OU overshadow all of the other issues.

[pearlandhorn 3343]

3 minutes ago, Mo Horn said:

https://longhornswire.usatoday.com/2020/11/21/texas-football-urban-meyer-teases-longhorns-fans/

Well this is an interesting response

I saw this earlier today.  I think he's saying "I don't know who I'm going to pick yet."

[closetohumping 17826]

4 minutes ago, pearlandhorn said:

I saw this earlier today.  I think he's saying "I don't know who I'm going to pick yet."

Oh crap!!!

 

I would not like that if I were Herm

Edited November 22, 2020 by closetohumping

[KYHorn 17634]

56 minutes ago, pearlandhorn said:

I saw this earlier today.  I think he's saying "I don't know who I'm going to pick yet."

I took it as "I'm not sure which city I'm going to say is the best college town, yet." But either way, he was definitely uncomfortable, which is a good sign.

[CUM2TX 11]

the only thing wrong with that article is it said the fans are divided.

uhhh, show me one fan who loves turtle boy. 

[satyanash 15656]

2 hours ago, victory88 said:

We hired a fucking “offensive mastermind” and our offense is a fucking abortion with a 1st round tackle and a 4th year QB.  How?!?

You want an actual mastermind, look to Norman.

The coordination and coaching that goes into this play is incredible. Can you imagine us being well-coached enough to pull this sort of play off? No way.

 

[Not a Sock 2366]

2 hours ago, Dbeasy said:

I don’t think beating a two loss OU team in the CCG proves we are staying up with them. This was a rebuilding year for them, and was supposed to be a breakout year for us. Recruiting isn’t going the right direction vs them either for 2021. I don’t think the decision makers will let one win over OU overshadow all of the other issues.

I don't think we have to worry about turtle tom beating this OU team or this ISU team either.

[mdmost 44109]

Yeah, let's worry about beating ISU before we debate if Tom could beat OU in the CCG that we'd still have to beat Kansas State and not fuck up against Kansas to get to. 

[mdleast 8522]

Yeah, let's worry about beating ISU before we debate if Tom could beat OU in the CCG that we'd still have to beat Kansas State and not fuck up against Kansas to get to. 

So you’re saying?

[Caver60 443]

3 hours ago, victory88 said:

I think aggy having a good season and being top 5 combined with ou most likely winning the conference again is going to get our BMDs off their ass.  Our fan base is okay with being mediocre but they’re not okay taking a fucking backseat to both ou and aggy.  Good luck raising money to fund all of the projects when the guys with money get fed up.  That and empty stadiums will force their hand.  Even with this bullshit 3 game winning streak, no one is buying the bullshit Herman is spewing.  We look so fucking terrible.  We hired a fucking “offensive mastermind” and our offense is a fucking abortion with a 1st round tackle and a 4th year QB.  How?!?

It’s because we lack dudes on offense at the skill positions. And in general, really. We have solid players at most every position, but recruiting rankings don’t really lie. We play like a team stacked with 3 and 4 star players, but we don’t have many 5* guys who can really house it at any time. We are loaded with complimentary players who don’t have anyone to compliment.

For years now posters on various sites have said things like “Good WR recruits in Texas are a dime a dozen”, and they are so wrong. Texas produces enough talent to bring game changers in every year. Water is wet. OU sucks. This shit is obvious. Brockermeyers are headed OOS. Every year we take fall backs at nearly every position. It’s not rocket science. Herman is a good roster builder for depth, but got damn you have to have some studs and we just don’t. Ossai is as close as we come right now.

But you know all of this. You’re a good poster and a knowledgeable fan.

[satyanash 15656]

On 10/19/2020 at 5:53 PM, satyanash said:

Franklin would be a horrible hire. He's expensive, his offense doesn't fit the Big 12 at all, his Gameday management skills make Andy Reid look like a savant, and you probably don't want to look too deeply into what went on under his watch at Vandy. If we don't land Urban and Bellmont picks Franklin they've learned absolutely nothing. Conduct a proper search. At least try and go after Cristobal, Dan Mullen, or the other far superior candidates before settling for Franklin. Fuck, I'd take Matt Campbell over Franklin. He would be a disaster here.

cough cough

A month later: Cristobal is undefeated, Mullen has Florida in the top 5, and Franklin is 0-5. Along with perhaps Luke Fickell, Mullen and Cristobal need to be the big targets if we miss on Urban.

[dcar00 14995]

20 minutes ago, Caver60 said:

It’s because we lack dudes on offense at the skill positions. And in general, really. We have solid players at most every position, but recruiting rankings don’t really lie. We play like a team stacked with 3 and 4 star players, but we don’t have many 5* guys who can really house it at any time. We are loaded with complimentary players who don’t have anyone to compliment.

For years now posters on various sites have said things like “Good WR recruits in Texas are a dime a dozen”, and they are so wrong. Texas produces enough talent to bring game changers in every year. Water is wet. OU sucks. This shit is obvious. Brockermeyers are headed OOS. Every year we take fall backs at nearly every position. It’s not rocket science. Herman is a good roster builder for depth, but got damn you have to have some studs and we just don’t. Ossai is as close as we come right now.

But you know all of this. You’re a good poster and a knowledgeable fan.

this.  our speed sucks and has for years, our WR are average and usually slow(Duvernay a bit of an exception),  our DB's are pedestrian at best,  our RB's are average.  Herman's recruiting sucks.  Jake Smith was supposed to be Gatorade player of the year.  Color me unimpressed with his abilities.  Clemson and Bama trap door guys like him.

More importantly we are back to "good kids who graduate".  the really good players in Texas are not coming here because we accept mediocrity.

Bijan made one fucking move, a couple of games ago, on a guy and we acted like we had never seen that  before.  OU players do shit like that on the reg.

CDC has one fucking job.  get football right.  Herman is not "right" and after this season it is all on CDC, not Herman.

[Funk Doctor Spock 13292]

34 minutes ago, satyanash said:

cough cough

A month later: Cristobal is undefeated, Mullen has Florida in the top 5, and Franklin is 0-5. Along with perhaps Luke Fickell, Mullen and Cristobal need to be the big targets if we miss on Urban.

No to these except maybe Mullen. He's intriguing. Yeah, he seems skeezy and slimy, but he knows QB's, that's indisputable. He's a plus recruiter, too. I'm just not sure how well he would fare in our conference. He doesn't seem like a home run hire, but really no one does outside of UM. Cristobal seems like a splash in the pan who recruits well, but the PAC suuuuuuucks, so we don't know what he can really do. 

[tbone_ 14461]

Lulz at a coach leaving Fla for us.

[Funk Doctor Spock 13292]

Just now, tbone_ said:

Lulz at a coach leaving Fla for us.

No. No it isn't ever going to happen. I was just saying it would be intriguing, not that he's mentally challenged. 

[UTDD 362]

1 hour ago, dcar00 said:

this.  our speed sucks and has for years, our WR are average and usually slow(Duvernay a bit of an exception),  our DB's are pedestrian at best,  our RB's are average.  Herman's recruiting sucks.  Jake Smith was supposed to be Gatorade player of the year.  Color me unimpressed with his abilities.  Clemson and Bama trap door guys like him.

More importantly we are back to "good kids who graduate".  the really good players in Texas are not coming here because we accept mediocrity.

Bijan made one fucking move, a couple of games ago, on a guy and we acted like we had never seen that  before.  OU players do shit like that on the reg.

CDC has one fucking job.  get football right.  Herman is not "right" and after this season it is all on CDC, not Herman.

I will agree with your last sentence for sure.  At this point, I am not evaluating Herman anymore.  The next few games really won't change my opinion no matter how they go, good or bad.  It's CDC I am wondering about right now.  I'm even ok if we don't get Urban as long as Herman is out, as even a tiny chance of getting lucky with another hire is still better than zero chance of having the correct guy right now.  Obviously, I hope we get the best hire possible...

[tonedeaf 56]

7 hours ago, dcar00 said:

this.  our speed sucks and has for years, our WR are average and usually slow(Duvernay a bit of an exception),  our DB's are pedestrian at best,  our RB's are average.  Herman's recruiting sucks.  Jake Smith was supposed to be Gatorade player of the year.  Color me unimpressed with his abilities.  Clemson and Bama trap door guys like him.

More importantly we are back to "good kids who graduate".  the really good players in Texas are not coming here because we accept mediocrity.

Bijan made one fucking move, a couple of games ago, on a guy and we acted like we had never seen that  before.  OU players do shit like that on the reg.

CDC has one fucking job.  get football right.  Herman is not "right" and after this season it is all on CDC, not Herman.

Funny.  Are you talking about the pedestrian/average RB/DB recruits that we slobbered all over and couldnt wait to get here to take the place of the pedestrian/average RB/DB's that we slobbered all over when they were recruits?   Those guys?  Those guys in top 5 recruiting classes?  You know, it just might not be the players that are the problem.  It's not hermans recruiting that sucks.  Its herman that sucks.  

[FloridaHorn 4887]

8 hours ago, dcar00 said:

this.  our speed sucks and has for years, our WR are average and usually slow(Duvernay a bit of an exception),  our DB's are pedestrian at best,  our RB's are average.  Herman's recruiting sucks.  Jake Smith was supposed to be Gatorade player of the year.  Color me unimpressed with his abilities.  Clemson and Bama trap door guys like him.

More importantly we are back to "good kids who graduate".  the really good players in Texas are not coming here because we accept mediocrity.

Bijan made one fucking move, a couple of games ago, on a guy and we acted like we had never seen that  before.  OU players do shit like that on the reg.

CDC has one fucking job.  get football right.  Herman is not "right" and after this season it is all on CDC, not Herman.

Clemson and Alabama wouldn’t have cut Jake Smith, they would have made him better and schemed ways to use him. I mean Jake Smith is 10 times the athlete Hunter Renfro was and Clemson made the latter a superstar. Fact is, talent comes to Austin to die, and players rarely reach full potential here. That has to be a coaching issue.

[Mikey4 2484]

Clemson and Alabama wouldn’t have cut Jake Smith, they would have made him better and schemed ways to use him. I mean Jake Smith is 10 times the athlete Hunter Renfro was and Clemson made the latter a superstar. Fact is, talent comes to Austin to die, and players rarely reach full potential here. That has to be a coaching issue.

Absolutely it is a coaching issue. That's why I hate the narrative that talent comes to Texas to die. The problem is not "Texas." The problem is Charlie Strong and Tom Herman. Let's get a real coach and then see what happens to talent at Texas.

[JesusSweatDuck 18143]

14 hours ago, Dbeasy said:

I don’t think beating a two loss OU team in the CCG proves we are staying up with them. This was a rebuilding year for them, and was supposed to be a breakout year for us. Recruiting isn’t going the right direction vs them either for 2021. I don’t think the decision makers will let one win over OU overshadow all of the other issues.

What makes me more angry than anything else is you can see OU and ISU getting better every week.

 

While our defense has improved the rest of the team might actually be worse

[dcar00 14995]

2 hours ago, FloridaHorn said:

Clemson and Alabama wouldn’t have cut Jake Smith, they would have made him better and schemed ways to use him. I mean Jake Smith is 10 times the athlete Hunter Renfro was and Clemson made the latter a superstar. Fact is, talent comes to Austin to die, and players rarely reach full potential here. That has to be a coaching issue.

sure, the trap door was hyperbole.  the problem is missing out on the plus athletes in which the Jake Smith's become very nice role players. yes its a coaching issue and in college coaching involves recruiting.

Herman is failing on both sides. there are very few true elite players and we miss on them constantly. when our 2nd level guys pick us they get recruiting bonus points.  we are overall slow,  borderline average athletically(in most cases), and poorly coached. It has been this way going on 10 years.

I'm not so sure Jake Smith is actually 10x the athlete Renfrow is.

CDC is officially on the clock.  

[Redneck Mutha 8207]

10 hours ago, dcar00 said:

Bijan made one fucking move, a couple of games ago, on a guy and we acted like we had never seen that  before.  

It's a fireable offense for this staff that he's currently 4th on the team in rushing attempts and 8th in receptions. 

8 touches a game for the most dangerous weapon on this team.  

[dcar00 14995]

2 hours ago, tonedeaf said:

Funny.  Are you talking about the pedestrian/average RB/DB recruits that we slobbered all over and couldnt wait to get here to take the place of the pedestrian/average RB/DB's that we slobbered all over when they were recruits?   Those guys?  Those guys in top 5 recruiting classes?  You know, it just might not be the players that are the problem.  It's not hermans recruiting that sucks.  Its herman that sucks.  

our 2nd best running back is an unintended QB conversion...

[dcar00 14995]

2 minutes ago, JesusSweatDuck said:

What makes me more angry than anything else is you can see OU and ISU getting better every week.

 

While our defense has improved the rest of the team might actually be worse

it is.  I think ISU takes us by 10.

[FloridaHorn 4887]

3 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

sure, the trap door was hyperbole.  the problem is missing out on the plus athletes in which the Jake Smith's become very nice role players. yes its a coaching issue and in college coaching involves recruiting.

Herman is failing on both sides. there are very few true elite players and we miss on them constantly. when our 2nd level guys pick us they get recruiting bonus points.  we are overall slow,  borderline average athletically(in most cases), and poorly coached. It has been this way going on 10 years.

I'm not so sure Jake Smith is actually 10x the athlete Renfrow is.

CDC is officially on the clock.  

Renfrow was a former walk on and Jake Smith was a Gatorade player of the year, the athleticism gap between the two is huge. However I agree about missing out on the truly dynamic guys. It makes me sick when I see guys like Waddle, Wilson, and Theo Wease making plays for other teams and think of what could have been.

[dcar00 14995]

7 minutes ago, FloridaHorn said:

Renfrow was a former walk on and Jake Smith was a Gatorade player of the year, the athleticism gap between the two is huge. However I agree about missing out on the truly dynamic guys. It makes me sick when I see guys like Waddle, Wilson, and Theo Wease making plays for other teams and think of what could have been.

yes I know he was a walk on.  jake smith played in arizona.  I'm sure smith is faster.  I guess we'll see if Smith makes it to the combine.  he's seems a bit injury prone.

[C-Man 27815]

Yeah, let's worry about beating ISU before we debate if Tom could beat OU in the CCG that we'd still have to beat Kansas State and not fuck up against Kansas to get to. 

Mind games, yo. I hope Iowa State mudholes Tom’s ass making his firing inevitable. This not knowing shit is driving me crazy.

[GringoSalado 1653]

14 minutes ago, C-Man said:

 

Mind games, yo. I hope Iowa State mudholes Tom’s ass making his firing inevitable. This not knowing shit is driving me crazy.

 

We know that we are way too shitty to win this shit conf.

[dcar00 14995]

13 minutes ago, C-Man said:

 

Mind games, yo. I hope Iowa State mudholes Tom’s ass making his firing inevitable. This not knowing shit is driving me crazy.

 

all we had to do was fire Mack, pay Saban whatever but instead we fucked around and found out as per usual.

[Hiphopopotamos 21192]

52 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

sure, the trap door was hyperbole.  the problem is missing out on the plus athletes in which the Jake Smith's become very nice role players. yes its a coaching issue and in college coaching involves recruiting.

Herman is failing on both sides. there are very few true elite players and we miss on them constantly. when our 2nd level guys pick us they get recruiting bonus points.  we are overall slow,  borderline average athletically(in most cases), and poorly coached. It has been this way going on 10 years.

I'm not so sure Jake Smith is actually 10x the athlete Renfrow is.

CDC is officially on the clock.  

Are you under the impression that Jake Smith is not a great athlete?

[Bevo 13914]

31 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

yes I know he was a walk on.  jake smith played in arizona.  I'm sure smith is faster.  I guess we'll see if Smith makes it to the combine.  he's seems a bit injury prone.

y'all are sleeping on kai money

[Dbeasy 15613]

What makes me more angry than anything else is you can see OU and ISU getting better every week.
 
While our defense has improved the rest of the team might actually be worse

Yup the best sign of good coaching is a team that improves throughout the season. Texas hasn’t. OU and ISU look much better. We may still beat ISU because of a talent advantage. I have a hard time seeing us beat OU or even staying close, but rivalry games can always be strange.

That’s why the administration has to look past the results in the last few games and look at the season holistically, and in the context of off the field concerns. It’s a tough decision for them because they would potentially be making a change in spite of a big 12 championship. A loss to ISU, KSU or OU would make the decision fairly straightforward.

[Bevo 13914]

2 minutes ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

Are you under the impression that Jake Smith is not a great athlete?

for whatever reason, our receivers aren't getting much separation and then when there is separation, Sam has been inconsistent

[dcar00 14995]

3 minutes ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

Are you under the impression that Jake Smith is not a great athlete?

I've heard stories.  I've yet to see it to be honest.

[JFKFC 4978]

[Vito Andolini 9459]

Is she having a stroke or drunk? Because either is fine.

[Jkwellborn 7057]

Absolutely it is a coaching issue. That's why I hate the narrative that talent comes to Texas to die. The problem is not "Texas." The problem is Charlie Strong and Tom Herman. Let's get a real coach and then see what happens to talent at Texas.

It was a problem with Mack too.

[ztejas 44279]

3 minutes ago, Jkwellborn said:

It was a problem with Mack too.

Not for the first 10 years it wasn't. Saying otherwise is revisionist. We were what - the 3rd or 4th best program of the 2000s? 

[Hank Chinaski 6363]

3 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Not for the first 10 years it wasn't. Saying otherwise is revisionist. We were what - the 3rd or 4th best program of the 2000s? 

And had more players in the NFL than any other school for a few years there toward the end of that decade. 

[USNALonghorn 5193]

The way our former athletes are performing in the NFL right now is a testament to how poorly we develop our talent. Malcolm Brown never sniffed a 1000 yard season here and he's scoring touchdowns in the NFL. Adrian Phillips is a starter for the fucking NE Patriots. How many times have we made fun of Kris Boyd getting burned or mistiming his jump?? ...still a starter in the NFL. We didn't realize the monster we had in Devin Duvernay until his senior year. Collin Johnson seemed overrated until he left. We could go on all day. The athletes are here and they have been here. The recruiting service rankings are not inaccurate for us and somehow accurate everywhere else. Talent wants to be here. We just don't develop it anywhere near it's maximum potential. We don't scheme around it either. Another problem is we don't recruit strategically (see roster holes at LB). This is all on the coaching. A good head coach change will turn recruiting around and will take advantage of this year's transfer rules. On the other hand, failure to act will solidify our status as Tennessee.

[ztejas 44279]

5 minutes ago, Hank Chinaski said:

And had more players in the NFL than any other school for a few years there toward the end of that decade. 

And a lot of those guys were killers. Robison, JC, Orakpo, Houston, Scaife, Vince had a few good years. We could keep going...

Edited November 22, 2020 by ztejas
Scaife wasn't AS good as I thought. Still

[Had Enough 2125]

Not for the first 10 years it wasn't. Saying otherwise is revisionist. We were what - the 3rd or 4th best program of the 2000s? 

Yes but there was a reason why USC was thought to be undefeatable. I think we had more top end talent on both sides of the ball, and I'm a large Reggie Bush fan. Then there was 12-0 with Young and Young. Thomas and Sweed. Lots o olinemen. And in 2005, we only had 26 points after 54 minutes. Yep made for history but what the hell are you doing the 1st 54.

Lots of greatness in there but way too many wth moments. RB, Dline, DB were loaded. Oh and pretty good at QB too.

It should have taken more than 1 hand to count the conference champs.

[Bevo 13914]

So, and let me think about this so I get it right, what you all are saying is that we need a new head coach.

[ztejas 44279]

12 minutes ago, Had Enough said:

Yes but there was a reason why USC was thought to be undefeatable. I think we had more top end talent on both sides of the ball, and I'm a large Reggie Bush fan. Then there was 12-0 with Young and Young. Thomas and Sweed. Lots o olinemen. And in 2005, we only had 26 points after 54 minutes. Yep made for history but what the hell are you doing the 1st 54.

Lots of greatness in there but way too many wth moments. RB, Dline, DB were loaded. Oh and pretty good at QB too.

It should have taken more than 1 hand to count the conference champs.

I'm not really talking about on field results, more addressing the narrative that talent came to die under Mack's glory days when it absolutely didn't. You can have plenty of talent shine in college and at the next level and not necessarily win every game with those guys. You seem to be referring to the idea of "wasting talent" which, yeah, we probably did to a degree, but we were so fucking loaded in those years that 10 wins was a bad season. 

I don't think we won as much as we COULD have but I don't beleive that it was some mass underachievement to be 4 games and just a handful of points away from winning 2 MNCs and playing in 5. No way we beat Miami in '01 or SC in '04 (although Vince could have made it interesting). Heart of hearts I do beleive we beat UF in '08.

Chips fell enough for us to get 1 year on the wall. Push them over the ledge a bit more and there's 2 or 3 up there. Thank fuck we didn't hang a goose egg.

[TexArcher 39075]

13 hours ago, mdmost said:

Yeah, let's worry about beating ISU before we debate if Tom could beat OU in the CCG that we'd still have to beat Kansas State and not fuck up against Kansas to get to. 

All of this.

I don't understand how anyone is penciling this team into the CCG.  We lost to a bad TCU team and a bad OU team, and we should've lost to a bad Tech team.  Yeah, we beat a good Okie State team and held serve against a couple more bad teams.  But we still have a lot of issues and I'd say we're just as likely to finish 1-2 as 3-0.

You just don't know what you're gonna get from this team from week to week, one of the hallmarks of a poorly coached team.  I'm certainly not counting any chickens.

[Jkwellborn 7057]

Not for the first 10 years it wasn't. Saying otherwise is revisionist. We were what - the 3rd or 4th best program of the 2000s? 

Mack didn’t get the most out of his guys. Did anyone think a Mack brown team overachieved? They out talented everyone. Coach February and all that. The last 5 years were dang near as bad as now

[ztejas 44279]

4 minutes ago, Jkwellborn said:

Mack didn’t get the most out of his guys.

Right. That's not the same to me as saying "talent came to die" here. But I outlined that above.

[TexArcher 39075]

3 minutes ago, Jkwellborn said:

Mack didn’t get the most out of his guys. Did anyone think a Mack brown team overachieved? They out talented everyone. Coach February and all that. The last 5 years were dang near as bad as now

Mack's teams underperformed for 6 years, then were where they should have been for 6 years, then underperformed for 4 more years.  And he left the program in worse shape than he found it, which should have been impossible.  I think Mack is a good guy and I thank him for the good years.  But there sure as shit should have been a lot more of them.

[Funk Doctor Spock 13292]

21 minutes ago, Bevo said:

So, and let me think about this so I get it right, what you all are saying is that we need a new head coach.

No, idoit, we need new players until we finally get ones that aren't overrated. Duh. 

[dcar00 14995]

17 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

All of this.

I don't understand how anyone is penciling this team into the CCG.  We lost to a bad TCU team and a bad OU team, and we should've lost to a bad Tech team.  Yeah, we beat a good Okie State team and held serve against a couple more bad teams.  But we still have a lot of issues and I'd say we're just as likely to finish 1-2 as 3-0.

You just don't know what you're gonna get from this team from week to week, one of the hallmarks of a poorly coached team.  I'm certainly not counting any chickens.

i think we are assuming any loss before the CCG and he's gone so no sense in debating what might happen if he loses any of the 3 remaining games.