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Tom "the turtle" Herman [Lame Duck or greatest 5d chess player ever?]

Neonmoon

By Neonmoon
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Jkwellborn

Jkwellborn 7035

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Wait and see what happens. Nobody wants to come coach or play in the big 12, this conference is a joke and as long as Texas stays in it, they will always be B+ at best. 
Go back and watch the TCU game to see why nobody wants to coach at Texas.
Also, those "negative recruiting" things are from Charlie Strong guys, who are all underachievers.
All Tom really has to do at this point is let Yurcich install his offense and focus on recruiting and they will be fine. Let's see what the team can do with a different QB than Sam.
edit: probably next year we win the big12 with 1 loss and get embarrassed in the playoff, just like blowU did a few years in a row

Hi Tom. Is this how you kept track of what the message boards were saying about you?
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he allegedly stole money from the Cole Pittman memorial golf tournament and someone posted on shaggy about it. He sent me an email saying take it down or else, and oh by the way, I cc'd my lawyer

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Zeus

Zeus 6855

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23 minutes ago, Jkwellborn said:

Hi Tom. Is this how you kept track of what the message boards were saying about you?

Sup dude, you figured out who Shaggy is going to hire to replace Tom?

Seriously, I'm genuinely curious, I've never heard any of you name a legit replacement, Urban was never going to happen.

I'd like to get excited about someone else, but until then, I'm just hoping for the best continuing with TH. The best is still not going to get Texas "back" but I don't see a coach out there who would come to actually push Texas to the Bammer/OSU/Clemson level.

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Valmy77

Valmy77 13626

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1 minute ago, Mo Horn said:

If they are going to fire him, when does that happen. I get saying after signing day, but anyone who signs will be allowed to transfer without penalty after, so that really doesn't matter.

Yeah I don't think trying to fool our incoming class is a great way to set ourselves up for success.

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bschoolprof

bschoolprof 6341

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2 hours ago, Zeus said:

I'd like to get excited about someone else, but until then, I'm just hoping for the best continuing with TH. The best is still not going to get Texas "back" but I don't see a coach out there who would come to actually push Texas to the Bammer/OSU/Clemson level.

"You're not the best, but you're the best than I can do."

             -- Charlie Robison

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bschoolprof

bschoolprof 6341

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3 minutes ago, GreenspointTexas said:

Lets say we didnt have a pandemic

 

we beat usf, lsu, and ku

 

we likely win our bowl game. We likely get 10 wins

 

does that change anyones opinion, even a little??

No. The goal is to contend for the conference year in and year out. He’s in year 4 with a senior QB. The conference is as weak as it’s ever been, including a relatively  shitty OU team. He turtles and didn’t even make the championship game. If he didn't win the conference this year, he likely never will, and certainly won’t contend regularly. We’ve had four years to see him and his type has been revealed. Anyone who bases retention decisions on a win or loss here and there is a fucking moron. 

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TXpride

TXpride 606

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, GreenspointTexas said:

Lets say we didnt have a pandemic

 

we beat usf, lsu, and ku

 

we likely win our bowl game. We likely get 10 wins

 

does that change anyones opinion, even a little??

We beat USF and KU, but probably split LSU and the bowl game. You can't just pencil in wins for a Herman-coached team. So we likely finish 9-4. Still not good enough with the experience we had on the roster and the conference being down. This was the year to make a run--Tom Herman himself said as much.

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28928

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50 minutes ago, GreenspointTexas said:

Lets say we didnt have a pandemic

 

we beat usf, lsu, and ku

 

we likely win our bowl game. We likely get 10 wins

 

does that change anyones opinion, even a little??

This post needs more spacing between lines and more references to a third party with first person pronouns. 

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Valmy77

Valmy77 13626

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48 minutes ago, bschoolprof said:

No. The goal is to contend for the conference year in and year out. He’s in year 4 with a senior QB. The conference is as weak as it’s ever been, including a relatively  shitty OU team. He turtles and didn’t even make the championship game. If he didn't win the conference this year, he likely never will, and certainly won’t contend regularly. We’ve had four years to see him and his type has been revealed. Anyone who bases retention decisions on a win or loss here and there is a fucking moron. 

Yeah there is a context beyond the record. This season was the culmination of all his work here. A trip to the CCG was the bare minimum.

I honestly thought this would be his best team 

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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We would not have beat LSU in Baton Rouge.  Herman would have found a way to fuck that up in the 4th quarter.  However, we would have likely gone 8-4 and won the Cheez-It Bowl in Orlando or the Texas Bowl in Houston and finished 9-4.  He'd still be averaging 5 losses/season for $6mm/year (all-in).  

But point taken, he'd probably have made a case for himself for sticking around one more year.  Nobody would want to hear that case, but it would have made, and for some strange fucking reason, it would have been adhered to for 2021 when he comes back as Head Coach.  As it stands, I think it's only 70/30 that he's gone next year.  

One big consideration is filling up that shiny new, expensive South Endzone.  Obviously people are already plunking down huge sums of cash to be the first to sit in those suites, loge boxes, and club seats.  But those people are just being pulled away from other, older parts of the stadium.  The new enthusiasm is minimal, and CDC knows that (he's a lot of things but ignorant to pro forma ain't one of 'em).  He's staring down a team that'll probably limp to a 6-4 finish with probably a new head coach next year not named Urban Meyer with all kinds of bills to pay and sure, we'll all say right now in December that we'll be amped-up for a proper 2021 football season but then the reality of the ticket prices sets in along with this shit-tastic schedule:  LA-Lafayette, Rice, Kansas, Kansas State, Texas Tech, and Oklahoma State.  So there's one ranked opponent in there most likely, maybe two teams with a winning record/bowl eligible total (OSU & KSU/TTU).  Everybody else will be going through this too next year, but they won't have our coaching baggage and our quarter billion dollar mother-in-law suite to start paying down.  

Anyway, Coach Herman seems like he knows a good deal about football.  I just think we overpaid for his above-average performance.  Hope he catches on somewhere else so he doesn't cost us as much money. 

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Gigglebush

Gigglebush 107

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12 minutes ago, Lobo said:

We would not have beat LSU in Baton Rouge.  Herman would have found a way to fuck that up in the 4th quarter.  However, we would have likely gone 8-4 and won the Cheez-It Bowl in Orlando or the Texas Bowl in Houston and finished 9-4.  He'd still be averaging 5 losses/season for $6mm/year (all-in).  

 

LSU let Mississippi State throw for 623 yards on them with State QB K.J. Costello setting an SEC passing record. Costello would be permanently benched halfway through the season as State stumbled to a 2-5 record with their offense being shut out twice.

We would have beat fucking LSU. They are a Charlie Strong tier team this season, just look at some of their box scores.

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Longboard Horn

Longboard Horn 41351

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14 hours ago, bschoolprof said:

No. The goal is to contend for the conference year in and year out. He’s in year 4 with a senior QB. The conference is as weak as it’s ever been, including a relatively  shitty OU team. He turtles and didn’t even make the championship game. If he didn't win the conference this year, he likely never will, and certainly won’t contend regularly. We’ve had four years to see him and his type has been revealed. Anyone who bases retention decisions on a win or loss here and there is a fucking moron. 

Exactly what I said in the spring and summer. OU is on a "down year" for them with a freshman QB, and the rest of the conference is shit. Tom had everything in place that needed to succeed, especially with an experienced defense and a senior Sam Ehlinger. If making the Big 12 title game and winning it didn't happen for Tom this year(which it didn't), then it'll never happen. We're just wasting money and resources at this point with turtle Herman. 

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4th&Five

4th&Five 41998

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14 hours ago, GreenspointTexas said:

Lets say we didnt have a pandemic

 

we beat usf, lsu, and ku

 

we likely win our bowl game. We likely get 10 wins

 

does that change anyones opinion, even a little??

we also needed a few miracles to beat tech and osu.  we know what he is and he sucks but i still think he'll be back.

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WinningIsHard

WinningIsHard 4171

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On 12/10/2020 at 9:11 AM, Zeus said:

Wait and see what happens. Nobody wants to come coach or play in the big 12, this conference is a joke and as long as Texas stays in it, they will always be B+ at best. 

Go back and watch the TCU game to see why nobody wants to coach at Texas.

Also, those "negative recruiting" things are from Charlie Strong guys, who are all underachievers.

All Tom really has to do at this point is let Yurcich install his offense and focus on recruiting and they will be fine. Let's see what the team can do with a different QB than Sam.

edit: probably next year we win the big12 with 1 loss and get embarrassed in the playoff, just like blowU did a few years in a row

I should have seen the Sam bullshit coming lol. Sam is the problem? It’s his fault he hands off to his 3rd string back up? I bet it’s his fault we let Kansas score 40 points. He probably wanted to kick the extra point against blOwU instead of going for two because he seems like a pussy and Tom listened to him. I bet he also talked herman into abandoning the run game with actual rb’s about 90% of his career so he has to use a walker to get around in his 50’s. Herman is not a head coach. Him and strong were both lucky Texas had a shitty president/AD combo at the time. Our current situation seems better at the top so in closing fuck your mentality of we might not get better so we should be happy with 7-6/8-5 years. 

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USNALonghorn

USNALonghorn 5175

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I don't buy the Big12 Conference excuse. I agree that it's 4th out of the P5 conferences at BEST, in terms of overall football performance this past decade. That doesn't change the fact that our problems are entirely SELF inflicted. Recruiting rankings are accurate for Alabama, Clemson, tOSU, Florida, but somehow are always inaccurate for us? I call bullshit.

We started digging this hole when Mack got lazy with offensive line recruiting in 2006. We dug deeper in 2010 and decided to completely change offensive philosophies because of one freak injury. Then we hired Charlie Strong, who kept Watson around after the 59 yard masterpiece in the Texas Bowl. Charlie failed after we handed him a Briles ripoff from Tulsa. Tom Herman looked enticing because of his success as an offensive genius under Urban. His offenses we figured out quickly. He tried to get our hopes up by hiring Yurcich, only to meddle with the offense again. Our offensive lines have changes blocking schemes at least four different times in the past decade. 

We killed our defense by hiring Manny Diaz, conducting the Charlie/Vance experiment, and tolerating the Todd Orlando fuckery. It's a miracle we still can recruit SOME defensive talent. 

An aligned administration and the right coaching staff are the sole roots of program revitalization. If we get back on track with recruiting and properly pairing star athletes with competent schemes, if doesn't make a shit what conference we're in. 

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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Yeah, I think if our scheduled had played out to a full 13 games (LSU, USF, KAN & mid-tier bowl game)...we'd have gone 8-5.  Somehow this magical "3-loss" season is fooling the few remaining Herman supporters.  We may just be stuck with him for another year and he'll somehow take that as a tacit endorsement of his cognitive prowess.  But Tom is about to have an albatross hung around his neck as the most expensive 8-win coach money can buy.  He'll be stuck with this Top 5 salary/Top 25 results moniker for a decade.  He deserves it.  

Edited by Lobo
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Hank Chinaski

Hank Chinaski 6354

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20 hours ago, USNALonghorn said:

I don't buy the Big12 Conference excuse. I agree that it's 4th out of the P5 conferences at BEST, in terms of overall football performance this past decade. That doesn't change the fact that our problems are entirely SELF inflicted. Recruiting rankings are accurate for Alabama, Clemson, tOSU, Florida, but somehow are always inaccurate for us? I call bullshit.

We started digging this hole when Mack got lazy with offensive line recruiting in 2006. We dug deeper in 2010 and decided to completely change offensive philosophies because of one freak injury. Then we hired Charlie Strong, who kept Watson around after the 59 yard masterpiece in the Texas Bowl. Charlie failed after we handed him a Briles ripoff from Tulsa. Tom Herman looked enticing because of his success as an offensive genius under Urban. His offenses we figured out quickly. He tried to get our hopes up by hiring Yurcich, only to meddle with the offense again. Our offensive lines have changes blocking schemes at least four different times in the past decade. 

We killed our defense by hiring Manny Diaz, conducting the Charlie/Vance experiment, and tolerating the Todd Orlando fuckery. It's a miracle we still can recruit SOME defensive talent. 

An aligned administration and the right coaching staff are the sole roots of program revitalization. If we get back on track with recruiting and properly pairing star athletes with competent schemes, if doesn't make a shit what conference we're in. 

Yup. People want to make our problem way more complicated than it actually is. It isn't the conference or the style of TX HS football or the city of Austin or some sort of inherent "soft" culture within the athletic department. 

It is coaching. We are good when we've had good coaches. We are mediocre when we've had mediocre coaches. We are bad when we've had bad coaches. Sometimes these things are really simple. 

Does the "culture" at Texas make the coaches less effective? I don't see any reason to buy this. What did any of them do at other schools after leaving Texas? If they were actually great coaches and they were simply submarined by some sort of "toxic" culture at Texas, wouldn't they have thrived once they went to Purdue or Arizona or South Florida? Not only did they not thrive, they were disasters. Akers went 12-31-1. Mackovic went 10-18. Strong, to his credit had a winning record (21-16), but he inherited an 11-2 team, and had them at 4-8 by his third year. 

We also hired Mack Brown during my lifetime. Mack got to Texas and basically did what he was doing at North Carolina for a few years, then went 69-9 over a 6-year stretch. He lost his fastball a bit, as we all know, and he has acknowledged that it was his own fault. He's back in the game, and in 2 years has turned UNC from a bad team to a good team. 

So yeah - when we've had good coaches, we've had good teams. The only thing keeping Tom Herman from winning big at Texas is his own inability to manage his program. He hired bad assistants. He is a bad in-game strategist. His teams have consistently committed too many dumb penalties for 4 years. These are coaching issues. They are apparent. THey cost the team games. This isn't complicated. 

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