Tom "the turtle" Herman [Lame Duck or greatest 5d chess player ever?]

[AtticusFinch 155]

The Oklahoma St and Maryland losses were embarrassing.   Ironically,  we had ample time to prepare for those games and didnt show up.  This is a 100% coaching issue and if Herman stays it will repeat itself annually unless we get a super stud at QB

[chase25 2048]

Just now, BurntEyes said:

We struggled against Baylor and Tulsa. We could absolutely lose to Kansas.

You are trolling like a fuck stick.

Neg battles, yay these are so much fun. Go back to the "Dumbass shit we see on facebook" forum, it suites you perfectly. Hell you could go start a "Dumbass shit we see on Surly" thread and be the star of the show.

[Machinator 32097]

Just now, BurntEyes said:

And Mack Brown got fired. 

For what happened after 2009, much more so than his failures during the 1998-2009 period.

[chase25 2048]

1 minute ago, BurntEyes said:

And Mack Brown got fired. 

After 16 years, a national title, and a record of 158-48. You might be the biggest idiot I've encountered on this board because with you it isn't even trolling, it is just straight up fucking stupidity

[Machinator 32097]

2 minutes ago, AtticusFinch said:

The Oklahoma St and Maryland losses were embarrassing.   Ironically,  we had ample time to prepare for those games and didnt show up.  This is a 100% coaching issue and if Herman stays it will repeat itself annually unless we get a super stud at QB

Super stud at QB, or when our offensive and defensive lines can just overwhelm our opponents 9-10 games a year. The O-line is trending that direction and could reach that level by 2020 or 2021; defensive line is more unclear.

[gsoda3 3236]

2 hours ago, Texas25 said:

Ok you said it doesn't guarantee wins and losses. Did Alabama play to a standard against Auburn last year? What about Ole Miss in 2015 when they turned the ball over. You can not play your best and lose to an inferior team. You just tried to craft a statement that doesn't make any sense by by getting into semantics. Explain to me how Alabama plays to their best, plays to their own standard and loses to Vanderbilt? As it pertains to Alabama, their standard and their best should be good enough to beat anybody should it not?

Now Alabama can play their best and possibly lose to a Clemson team that also plays their best, but I would even argue that. So out of curiosity what do you exactly mean when you say Saban coaches to a standard?

 

what are you saying?  that coaching to a standard isn't a thing? 

performing to a standard is best defined as a philosophy.  it's always aiming to perform your best regardless of the situation. you don't play down to an opponent.  will there be lapses in execution?  of course.  especially so in environments where the outcomes depend on so many other people.  i gave examples of tennis players earlier because those are easier to isolate individual performance. 

 

if you're a #1 ranked team that loses does that mean you didn't coach to a standard?  not necessarily-  you can prepare, scheme, drill, and condition to the utmost but if your players fail to execute that doesn't necessarily implicate the coaching staff.  that's the thing about performance-  you prepare to both succeed and fail, aiming to succeed. 

[RockyMountainHighHorn 890]

Two years ago we sucked bad. Last year we sucked less with small improvements. This year winning but playing down to competition. Do you think we will be better than we are this year? I think the resounding answer would be-I don't know. But why? We have consistently shown improvement on the field and in the record books. This hasn't created faith in what's to come. 

 

Maybe we are more like a Walmart stock versus a penny stock. We may play in a volatile manner(games) like a penny stock but when you plot those games over a season I see a gradual upward trend. 

[stork642 4498]

2 hours ago, Spankytoes said:

And you're basing this on what? The stats don't lie and they certainly don't support your argument. Further, it's impossible to compare these equally as the opponents and players change from year to year. We lost to an 11-3 USC squad on the road in double OT last year. We beat a 4-4 USC team with relative ease at home this year. We got crushed by a 11-3 TCU tam last year on the road. We spanked a 3-5 TCU team this year at home. 

Is it a result of our offense getting better or facing a diminished opponent at home? 

Is it good if Texas beats OU twice in one season? In Herman's second year.  Just wanted to ask that question on the Fire Tom Herman thread.  

[LTtxfan 48970]

46 minutes ago, Texas25 said:

Neg battles, yay these are so much fun. Go back to the "Dumbass shit we see on facebook" forum, it suites you perfectly. Hell you could go start a "Dumbass shit we see on Surly" thread and be the star of the show.

 

45 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

I've fed your troll ass enough. Our engagement on this board has ended. 

[Michael Knight 12896]

Once our roster is good enough we'll be able to beat teams like OSU just by showing up. We're not at that point so just be happy we beat the teams we aren't supposed to

[Spankytoes 1736]

1 hour ago, stork642 said:

Is it good if Texas beats OU twice in one season? In Herman's second year.  Just wanted to ask that question on the Fire Tom Herman thread.  

Yes

[Hamttx 419]

What the fuck is coaching to a standard? I fully understand having standards, but coaching? To many fucking variables the guy can’t control. It ain’t like he can fire his right tackle for failing to pick up a blitz when he doesn’t have another tackle. Coach him up a little? Sure. But if he ain’t meeting your standards because a future NFL HOF is mowing his ass over ain’t a whole lot he can do.

[ztejas 43264]

8 hours ago, gsoda3 said:

not just in football, but in all sports, and in all aspects of every career, people who coach/prepare to a standard are rare.  look at the male tennis players vs female tennis players.  you have several on the male side who play to a standard.  none on the female side. 

What in the fuck are you talking about?

[ztejas 43264]

WINNING is the standard. Winning is always the standard. Who gives a shit how good you look doing it, just fucking win.

You coach to win games. You PLAY to win THE GAME. If you need extra motivation to win that's a personal problem.

[Valmy77 13094]

4 hours ago, AtticusFinch said:

The Oklahoma St and Maryland losses were embarrassing.   Ironically,  we had ample time to prepare for those games and didnt show up.  This is a 100% coaching issue and if Herman stays it will repeat itself annually unless we get a super stud at QB

How was losing to Oklahoma State embarrassing? I mean many predicted it. 

Anyway I don't think we need a super stud at QB. Superior talent at several other positions could have won these games. But we do not presently have superior talent at every position against most of our opponents. Boyd tried his best but he was no match for Oklahoma State's stud WR. If he was able to cover that guy, we win.

So while I think we can expect bad performances against bad teams under Tom Herman I don't think we need Vince Young to beat Maryland.

Edited October 31, 2018 by Valmy77

[gsoda3 3236]

What the fuck is coaching to a standard? I fully understand having standards, but coaching? To many fucking variables the guy can’t control. It ain’t like he can fire his right tackle for failing to pick up a blitz when he doesn’t have another tackle. Coach him up a little? Sure. But if he ain’t meeting your standards because a future NFL HOF is mowing his ass over ain’t a whole lot he can do.

What in the fuck are you talking about?

Winning isn't enough. You think a 3 point win over 2003 baylor would have been sufficient? A great coach beats them by 5+ TDs. The difference is doing enough to get by vs doing the most you can. When you aim to do just enough to get by you're more prone to fail.

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2630]

6 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

Winning isn't enough. You think a 3 point win over 2003 baylor would have been sufficient? A great coach beats them by 5+ TDs. The difference is doing enough to get by vs doing the most you can. When you aim to do just enough to get by you're more prone to fail.

Wanna go way back machine? A 4 pointer over a 3 win KU in 04 with UT best ever qb sure was good enough to get Mack over the BCS hump 

Edited October 31, 2018 by Xian

[gsoda3 3236]

Wanna go way back machine? A 4 pointer over a 3 win KU in 04 with UT best ever qb sure was good enough to get Mack over the BCS hump 

Was there a point to that?

[ztejas 43264]

5 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

6 minutes ago, Xian said:

Wanna go way back machine? A 4 pointer over a 3 win KU in 04 with UT best ever qb sure was good enough to get Mack over the BCS hump 

Was there a point to that?

Is there a point to anything you've said over the past 100 posts or are you just looking for a tree to bark up?

[Spankytoes 1736]

6 hours ago, Texas25 said:

Alright twink toes, name me a coach and I'll go find you a bunch of lack luster performances and losses to inferior opponents. The almighty Saban lost to ULM his 1st season at Alabama.

Not sure why you think I’m gay. Sorry to disappoint.

Your “point” is akin to asking “If the sky is blue, then why is water wet?” I’m not sure that you understand what I’m saying: We didn’t lose to inferior opponents. Outside of Tulsa, we are on their same level. Either our coaching is crap or we have the most overrated recruiting classes in the country. A “lackluster performance” is our norm. We have yet to put together a complete game in all aspects. Charlie Strong beat a previously undefeated ou squad with a shitty team. Judging our strengths and progress from a rivalry game is dumb when the rest of our opponents have been mediocre. If you want to show me a good team that is crushing their opponent by 3 TDs at the start of the 4th, and needs a last second FG to hang on, then I’m interested. We should, at the very least, be 5-4 in conference based on athletic talent alone. I’d argue that ou should be our only yearly threat with the occasional trap game since we have a Top 2 conference coach and a Top 5/10 recruiting class per the rankings.

[UTDD 362]

I think the team overall is a little better, but still a lot of work to do.  I think the offense has marginally improved, but still with some key concerns right now.  This year, red zone scoring % is 78.6% which is very bad at 101st nationally.  Last year, Texas was at....78.7% red zone scoring.  A minor improvement in converting third downs with 42.9% this year versus 38.1% last year.  Slightly more points, yards, and points per play across the board but none of these ranking well with best rank being 31.2 PPG at 40th nationally.  The lack of offensive turnovers is also a nice improvement which has helped win games.  The defense is down this year, but not terrible.  The biggest difference I suspected by the eye test and I think confirmed by statistics is Texas can't get off the field on third down.  Last year, Texas ranked # 3 in the entire nation in 3rd down conversion percentage at 27.1% allowed and this year they are at 39% so that's a pretty big change to me.  Punting is not the same which hurts the defense as well.  

I'm hopeful for the future but have no issues believing that Texas could win or lose virtually any game this year (not Kansas perhaps) with what I see with the eyes and on paper.  I do like the talent from this class and going forward, I am hopeful the team becomes great.

[chase25 2048]

21 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

Not sure why you think I’m gay. Sorry to disappoint.

Your “point” is akin to asking “If the sky is blue, then why is water wet?” I’m not sure that you understand what I’m saying: We didn’t lose to inferior opponents. Outside of Tulsa, we are on their same level. Either our coaching is crap or we have the most overrated recruiting classes in the country. A “lackluster performance” is our norm. We have yet to put together a complete game in all aspects. Charlie Strong beat a previously undefeated ou squad with a shitty team. Judging our strengths and progress from a rivalry game is dumb when the rest of our opponents have been mediocre. If you want to show me a good team that is crushing their opponent by 3 TDs at the start of the 4th, and needs a last second FG to hang on, then I’m interested. We should, at the very least, be 5-4 in conference based on athletic talent alone. I’d argue that ou should be our only yearly threat with the occasional trap game since we have a Top 2 conference coach and a Top 5/10 recruiting class per the rankings.

The argument that no coach has ever had a team play down to the level of their competition is stupid, and it is one even you know is stupid. What does Charlie Strong beating OU have to do with this. A lot of those kids that were Freshman on that shitty team that beat OU are now Seniors and hadn't had a winning season until Herman got here. Next year and 2020, when he has turned the roster over, is when I will start worrying about why we aren't beating Kansas State, Baylor, Texas Tech, Maryland, Tulsa, etc... by 3 TDs.

I don't know if you have been watching, but the golden domers have a 5 point win over Vanderbilt (4-5) at HOME, a 8 point win over BALL STATE (3-6) at HOME, and a 5 point win over Pitt (4-4) at HOME. Nobody gives a shit because they are undefeated and ranked 4th in the CFP. It happens to everybody save for Alabama and even Alabama plays down to inferior opponents at times (see 8 point win vs aggy last year), they just have so much talent they overcome it like we used to.

I'm judging from the fact that a group of Seniors (some RS) who are now 23-22 (RS would be 29-29) on their careers, 10-14 before Herman arrived (RS would have been 16-21), now still have a chance to win the conference with a 6-2 (4-1) start. Sorry we aren't beating the little sisters of the poor badly enough for you, but I would call that progress.

Go through the current top 10 yourself, you won't find a single team outside of Bama that hasn't had a scare against somebody they should have handled easily.

Edited October 31, 2018 by Texas25

[Vic Mackey 46936]

How was losing to Oklahoma State embarrassing? I mean many predicted it. 
Anyway I don't think we need a super stud at QB. Superior talent at several other positions could have won these games. But we do not presently have superior talent at every position against most of our opponents. Boyd tried his best but he was no match for Oklahoma State's stud WR. If he was able to cover that guy, we win.
So while I think we can expect bad performances against bad teams under Tom Herman I don't think we need Vince Young to beat Maryland.

Maybe because Oklahoma St fucking sucks? This is probably their worst team this decade and their QB is junk. That's why it was embarrassing. Didn't Tech and Kansas St handle them with ease?

Do you think OU losing to OSU this season would be acceptable? That was an unacceptable loss in a national championship run we were on.

[Valmy77 13094]

43 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

Maybe because Oklahoma St fucking sucks? This is probably their worst team this decade and their QB is junk. That's why it was embarrassing. Didn't Tech and Kansas St handle them with ease?

Do you think OU losing to OSU this season would be acceptable? That was an unacceptable loss in a national championship run we were on.

Yes OSU has sucked shit for much of this year. But Oklahoma State still has great players, they are capable of beating people. All of that was said before the game.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

6 hours ago, Michael Knight said:

Once our roster is good enough we'll be able to beat teams like OSU just by showing up. We're not at that point so just be happy we beat the teams we aren't supposed to

I hate to say this but we are still years and years away. I believe in measuring past teams by the NFL talent that was on their rosters. The 2005 team easily had 100, maybe 120 years of NFL seasons from among those players. We had the luxury of redshirting blue-chips year after year -- we weren't trotting out freshmen QBs and DB and OL year after year after year, and they often didn't start until their third year in the program.  (Mack had a knack for talking most of them into staying through senior year, at least for a longer time than most coaches, too.)

And then he forgot how to evaluate. Or more likely, he forgot how to evaluate and retain evaluators, because I have a hard time believing he himself was ever worth a shit as an evaluator based on his final six or seven years here. 

At any rate, the team he left Charlie has probably 20 NFL player-seasons in it, max. (Similar to the team Akers left Mackovic.) As some of his guys are still juniors, it's still too soon to even estimate how many player-seasons Charlie left behind but I'll bet it will be at least double what Mack left him before it's all said and done. (And that's excluding Dicko, who might still be punting when they ban the NFL or the sun burns out, whichever comes first.)

Which is not to argue the merits of peak Mack versus UT Charlie as an overall coach -- but it's indisputable that Charlie was a better talent evaluator and recruiter than Mack post, shit, 2006 or so. 

It all comes back to a question that's been asked here more than once recently: how many of the guys on this roster could start on the 2005 team, or even the 2004 team?

I've racked my brain, and all I can come up with on offense are Lil'Jordan, Collin, and maybe Duvernay . WR was not that deep on those teams -- Tony Jeffery was the leading receiver on the 2004 team, and Humphrey and Johnson are superior versions of Limas Sweed. On D, Chris Nelson is talented enough but would be a poor scheme fit for that D. Gary Johnson would be an upgrade over all the LBs we had during those years save for DJ, who was there in '04 but missed '05.  And that's it. But to win an NC, that's the kind of roster you have to have, and we are a long, long way from there right now. We are heading in the right direction, though. 

Edited November 1, 2018 by MaybeACoordinator

[Irish Wrist Watch 1349]

This team is definitely better than last year's. They lost to OSU because the coaching staff had a bad case of overconfidence. This may have been Herman's fault. They believed that they deserved to be Top 10, and they believed that they would beat OSU so handily that they could sit two defensive starters for a quarter. Big fucking mistake. They did not believe the OSU should have been favored.

 

This overconfidence filtered on down thru the ranks. We woke up too late. The team wasn't quite good enough to pull it off, and Herman/Orlando let us down in the final minutes.

 

I think these guys are good enough that they're not going to let this happen again. Same perhaps for the coaching staff. Look for both the offense and the defense to step it up. We'll know a lot more Saturday night. I'm thinking we just might roll right into the Big 12 Championship game, and just like Dallas, we WILL NOT underestimate Oklahoma. We might just beat them a second time.

 

And why the fuck can't I get a 490kb gif that's 123x123 to work as my avatar?

Edited November 1, 2018 by Irish Wrist Watch

[GreenspointTexas 9566]

If we had the players that left early for the draft, we would prolly be undefeated this year, same as the 2008 team

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

2 minutes ago, GreenspointTexas said:

If we had the players that left early for the draft, we would prolly be undefeated this year, same as the 2008 team

Maybe, but it's just a fact of life now. The best programs adjust to that kind of turnover. We aren't there yet. 

(I've been pining over scenarios like that since I was a Phi Slamma Jamma fan as a kid. If only the '83 team still had Rob Williams, who left early. If only the '84 team had Drexler, who did the same. I've finally come to accept it's pointless.)

[Goodman 3273]

A healthy and on the field Holton Hill & Malik would be huge for this D. IMO we also miss Hall@Joker and Davis at Nickel. Those were pleasant surprises last year. 

Edited November 1, 2018 by Goodman

[Hank Chinaski 6310]

1 hour ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Maybe, but it's just a fact of life now. The best programs adjust to that kind of turnover. We aren't there yet. 

(I've been pining over scenarios like that since I was a Phi Slamma Jamma fan as a kid. If only the '83 team still had Rob Williams, who left early. If only the '84 team had Drexler, who did the same. I've finally come to accept it's pointless.)

(...If the '06 team had VY; if the '08 team had Jamaal and Jermichael...it may have been 3 titles in 4 years...)

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

2 minutes ago, Hank Chinaski said:

(...If the '06 team had VY; if the '08 team had Jamaal and Jermichael...it may have been 3 titles in 4 years...)

Yep. And if a frog had sidepockets, he'd carry a pistol. It's one of the more maddening things about college sports. 

[Revolution512 1480]

2 hours ago, Valmy77 said:

Yes OSU has sucked shit for much of this year. But Oklahoma State still has great players, they are capable of beating people. All of that was said before the game.

Great? Fuck off

[Machinator 32097]

12 minutes ago, Revolution512 said:

Great? Fuck off

Wallace and Hill are great players. OSU is not a great team.

[Valmy77 13094]

1 hour ago, Revolution512 said:

Great? Fuck off

They do. Wallace made Boyd look like a scrub and while Boyd has horrible hands he usually does not get totally humiliated like that.

Oklahoma State is having a shitty year but they still have working parts. They are coming off three consecutive ten win seasons remember, they won those games for a reason.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Valmy77

[TtomTerrific 200]

Herman and his staff were out coached last week.

It doesn't happen often, and it seems to be happening less and less, but it happened last weekend, biggern' hell. 

OSU isn't a great team, but I think Gundy is a quality coach and he does have some key quality players who showed out in that game....that boundary corner they stuck to Collin Johnson chief among them.

Gundy's attack on Locke and Wheeler was as surgical as it was impressive...and if the other coaches on our schedule were not aware of our weaknesses prior Gundy's clinic our tendencies, they sure as hell are now. 

Gundy has "coached down" to inferior teams' levels this season as well.....see KSU.  

It happens to teams that have to play their best to win...which Herman has said to everyone that will listen that we still need to do.

When we can win with our "C" game, we will have arrived and need to be talking about playoff runs and shit...we are not there yet.

[achooloco 1066]

Fire him, fuck this bitch ass mother fucker. ... well ok don’t fire him but he fucking sucks 

[crony 352]

That stupid fucking timeout

[Js1 85108]

Nothing that has happened the last 5 weeks is a surprise. 

[SubliminalHorn 6674]

Oh look, another close loss under Herman. Awesome. Yeah he’s going to lead us to a championship. 

[Knoxtnhorn 5929]

Fuck this guy.

He's a pussy.

He's a choker.

His coordinators are fucking trash.

Fuck him.

[Vic Mackey 46936]

2 minutes ago, crony said:

That stupid fucking timeout

You call a timeout and then the defense still is not prepared for a QB run. Fuck this shit.

[SubliminalHorn 6674]

Orlando has shit the bed this year

[MrBig 5288]

Looked like he wanted to cry on that last drive. Major pussy. No balls

[Goofyboy 3203]

So, can we fire him yet?

[SubliminalHorn 6674]

Herman will be gone after next year

[Js1 85108]

Couldn’t have scripted a more typical Tom Herman season 9 games in if you paid me a million dollars. 

[crony 352]

2 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

You call a timeout and then the defense still is not prepared for a QB run. Fuck this shit.

Yeah that too, but the icing the kicker timeout in the first half especially.

Edited November 3, 2018 by crony
t

[nycHorn 2967]

Herman will be gone after next year

Your vagina is showing.

[HuntinHorn 975]

Nice job icing the fucking kicker at half Tom!   Got dammit!

[SubliminalHorn 6674]

Just now, nycHorn said:

Your vagina is showing.

Good one! LOL