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Tom "the turtle" Herman [Lame Duck or greatest 5d chess player ever?]

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he allegedly stole money from the Cole Pittman memorial golf tournament and someone posted on shaggy about it. He sent me an email saying take it down or else, and oh by the way, I cc'd my lawyer

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alphahorn

alphahorn 1637

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Mensa is supposed to be this offensive genius, yet during the off season he adds to former offensive coordinators to the staff.  Do you think Riley or Ensminger would give 2 shits about what Fedora thinks about anything?  Those hires were proof he had no faith in Beck and no interest in doing what Riley does - coaching.  The results are obvious.  The defense is getting all the run, but the offense is way under performing. Sam digresses every week, can't line up and get a tough yard or two still when we need them.  Pass blocking is atrocious. wide receivers can't get separation. the special teams are fucking last in the nation.  his team sucks in every facet. he's fucking worse than charlie, think about that for a minute. this team is more dysfunctional than charlie's shit storm. but we do what we do and extended his contract prematurely.  the best we can hope for is a new staff underneath him. everyone must go a total reboot of OC/DC on down.

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victory88

victory88 5755

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He had a chance to hire the best coaches with our budget and he decided to forcefully bring his G5 level coaches to a premier program where they have to face some of the best coaches in the country. Is there any doubt why our schemes and development suck?  Outside of Hand, everyone needs to be either demoted or straight up fired.  
 

1.  Demote Beck to QB coach and bring in a real OC that can call plays.  This bullshit where plays are collectively called as a group needs to stop yesterday.

2.  Fire Meekins, Meh, Warhime, and Drayton.  They all have underperformed.  The first three have no business coaching at power 5 programs.

3.  Fire the entire defensive staff.  DCs have gotten fired for better defensive seasons than what we’re putting out there.  Orlando has gone mad with his all out blitzes on 3rd and long with the game on the line.  He alone has cost us 2 fucking games with that same bullshit play call with the game on the line.  Maybe Mensa can repeat the definition of insanity to himself and Orlando.

4.  If we don’t win the big 12 next year with all of his own recruits in his 4th year then he Has no more excuses.  4 years means he was given every chance to bring his own recruits and his own coaches.  If in 4 years he can’t win in this shitastic conference then cut ties with him and let he learn the job at a G5 program.

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Auto Driller

Auto Driller 2563

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2 minutes ago, victory88 said:

He had a chance to hire the best coaches with our budget and he decided to forcefully bring his G5 level coaches to a premier program where they have to face some of the best coaches in the country. Is there any doubt why our schemes and development suck?  Outside of Hand, everyone needs to be either demoted or straight up fired.  
 

1.  Demote Beck to QB coach and bring in a real OC that can call plays.  This bullshit where plays are collectively called as a group needs to stop yesterday.

2.  Fire Meekins, Meh, Warhime, and Drayton.  They all have underperformed.  The first three have no business coaching at power 5 programs.

3.  Fire the entire defensive staff.  DCs have gotten fired for better defensive seasons than what we’re putting out there.  Orlando has gone mad with his all out blitzes on 3rd and long with the game on the line.  He alone has cost us 2 fucking games with that same bullshit play call with the game on the line.  Maybe Mensa can repeat the definition of insanity to himself and Orlando.

4.  If we don’t win the big 12 next year with all of his own recruits in his 4th year then he Has no more excuses.  4 years means he was given every chance to bring his own recruits and his own coaches.  If in 4 years he can’t win in this shitastic conference then cut ties with him and let he learn the job at a G5 program.

When former players are calling out our DC on Twitter for terrible and predictable play calls, you know it’s time for a change. As shitty as things got during the Charlie Strong years I don’t remember players specifically criticizing the scheme.

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MonkeyDoughnut

MonkeyDoughnut 10762

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3 minutes ago, Auto Driller said:

When former players are calling out our DC on Twitter for terrible and predictable play calls, you know it’s time for a change. As shitty as things got during the Charlie Strong years I don’t remember players specifically criticizing the scheme.

Because the scheme was good, just execution sucked.... Now our starting point is scheme sucks and...

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victory88

victory88 5755

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3 minutes ago, Auto Driller said:

When former players are calling out our DC on Twitter for terrible and predictable play calls, you know it’s time for a change. As shitty as things got during the Charlie Strong years I don’t remember players specifically criticizing the scheme.

Teams have figured him out.  Once that happens in the Big 12, it’s a death sentence.  Every team is getting the ball out quick before the safeties even have a chance to get to the line with their stupid delayed blitzes 10 yards back.  It’s why we are seeing big chunk plays in the open field game after game.  Our stupid blitzes don’t fucking work.  Rather than scrapping that bullshit and playing solid base defense with better athletes, Orlando is doubling down on his stupid fucking schemes.  Riley had the balls to fire his DC mid season and they won the big 12.  Herman will never admit he was wrong and this is why we will always be 2nd to the sooners in this conference.

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Jkwellborn

Jkwellborn 7007

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Teams have figured him out.  Once that happens in the Big 12, it’s a death sentence.  Every team is getting the ball out quick before the safeties even have a chance to get to the line with their stupid delayed blitzes 10 yards back.  It’s why we are seeing big chunk plays in the open field game after game.  Our stupid blitzes don’t fucking work.  Rather than scrapping that bullshit and playing solid base defense with better athletes, Orlando is doubling down on his stupid fucking schemes.  Riley had the balls to fire his DC mid season and they won the big 12.  Herman will never admit he was wrong and this is why we will always be 2nd to the sooners in this conference.

They mentioned during the broadcast that Texas is blitzing 47% of the time, before the game. That’s crazy. Video game type shit.
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SilasCoade

SilasCoade 2622

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8 minutes ago, Jkwellborn said:


They mentioned during the broadcast that Texas is blitzing 47% of the time, before the game. That’s crazy. Video game type shit.

I guess it defends on how you define "blitz" b/c I think that number can only possibly be true if it means rushing the passer with someone other than a down lineman. Even when DBs are running in 4 seconds into the play from 10 yards back it still seems like there are only 5 rushers most of the time.

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Enchubben

Enchubben 5598

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20 minutes ago, victory88 said:

Teams have figured him out.  Once that happens in the Big 12, it’s a death sentence.  Every team is getting the ball out quick before the safeties even have a chance to get to the line with their stupid delayed blitzes 10 yards back.  It’s why we are seeing big chunk plays in the open field game after game.  Our stupid blitzes don’t fucking work.  Rather than scrapping that bullshit and playing solid base defense with better athletes, Orlando is doubling down on his stupid fucking schemes.  Riley had the balls to fire his DC mid season and they won the big 12.  Herman will never admit he was wrong and this is why we will always be 2nd to the sooners in this conference.

Second?  

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Apex73

Apex73 313

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1 hour ago, Landomatic said:

Doesn't work what way?  And please enlighten us as to how it does work and who should be in charge of making decisions?

What I mean is you just can’t fire and hire people and expect everything to be fixed.  No matter who you hire/fire the problems with the team still exist.  I don’t know how it should work but I definitely don’t think it should be the decision of a bunch of vaginas on the internet who’s asshole bleeds every time we lose a game.

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Hank Chinaski

Hank Chinaski 6345

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Apex73 said:

What I mean is you just can’t fire and hire people and expect everything to be fixed.  No matter who you hire/fire the problems with the team still exist.  I don’t know how it should work but I definitely don’t think it should be the decision of a bunch of vaginas on the internet who’s asshole bleeds every time we lose a game.

But this misses the point. Of course just randomly "firing and hiring people" doesn't fix things. 

But when it becomes clear that people are bad at their jobs, it doesn't really do any good to keep them around indefinitely.

It has become clear that this coaching staff is bad. It isn't so much about the outcomes as it as about the indicators:

Herman has demonstrated that his teams will be often ill-prepared and will often make inexplicably stupid decisions on the field, that he supports a hilariously-bad defensive scheme, that he irrationally tries to sit on minuscule leads, that he doesn't want to call plays but has chosen against employing anyone capable of calling plays, that he won't upgrade position coaches whose position groups regularly underperform, that the staff he's assembled is unable to teach basic football fundamentals, ...we could go on for a while here.

The point is that there is sufficient evidence to conclude that he is no more than a mediocre head coach with a sub-mediocre staff. 

Thus...this isn't just firing people at random and hoping for the best. This is replacing someone who isn't good at his job. Of course there are no guarantees that the next guy will be (unless they hire a guy who has proven it over the last 15 years), but if we know x is bad and that y has provided reason to believe he'd be good...

And I'll add that of course Herman will be here for a while. He's not getting fired this year even if his team loses every game left on the schedule. I get that. But we had these same conversations when Strong was here, about "you can't just fire everyone blah blah blah"...well, turns out Texas couldn't have possibly fired Strong fast enough...and it's the same now with Herman. The evidence is there. Herman will not win anything of substance here in all likelihood unless he radically changes a lot. 

What's more likely - that he radically changes his overall philosophies, staff management and general coaching instincts, or that he doesn't?

Edited by Hank Chinaski
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SilasCoade

SilasCoade 2622

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Duvernay and Sam just weren't on the same page. Duv was breaking the route off b/c the DB got inside leverage, Sam thought he would just force it anyway. Pretty sure that one's on Sam. Smith is a freshman who didn't adjust his route to get in front of the DB, but the DB made a good play anticipating the route. Sam made a bad decision on that one too.

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NowThis

NowThis 931

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19 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

This. Our WRs stopped in the middle of running routes yesterday. One of them was Devon Duvernay and it led to an interception. Jake Smith did it, too.

Patterson crushed OK State's offense a few years ago with brilliant scheming and to Texas yesterday. Need to hire NFL assistant coaches who are expert at game adjustments. Searching for college coaches is futile.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 19441

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6 minutes ago, Llogg said:

Duvernay and Sam just weren't on the same page. Duv was breaking the route off b/c the DB got inside leverage, Sam thought he would just force it anyway. Pretty sure that one's on Sam. Smith is a freshman who didn't adjust his route to get in front of the DB, but the DB made a good play anticipating the route. Sam made a bad decision on that one too.

Wonderful. Our junior QB with a million starts is getting worse at in-game decision making.

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hookem48

hookem48 4808

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8 minutes ago, Llogg said:

Duvernay and Sam just weren't on the same page. Duv was breaking the route off b/c the DB got inside leverage, Sam thought he would just force it anyway. Pretty sure that one's on Sam. Smith is a freshman who didn't adjust his route to get in front of the DB, but the DB made a good play anticipating the route. Sam made a bad decision on that one too.

Duv quit on his route, Smith ran a lazy assed  high school route and didn't seem too concerned even after the INT. Sam doesn't get to wait till they're wide open to throw the ball.

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 49910

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Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, Hank Chinaski said:

But this misses the point. Of course just randomly "firing and hiring people" doesn't fix things.  But when it becomes clear that people are bad at their jobs, it doesn't really do any good to keep them around indefinitely.  What's more likely - that he radically changes his overall philosophies, staff management and general coaching instincts, or that he doesn't?

Herman's gonna have to pull a Dabo and hire a quality OC and DC and let them coach.  Herman has to learn to be a better CEO for the Texas Football program.  Bringing most of his staff from UH was a big mistake...

(After struggling as HC at Clemson, Dabo hired Chad Morris in 2011 and Brent Venables in 2012 and it turned Clemson around)

 

Edited by LTtxfan
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PilotsError

PilotsError 2341

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11 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

Herman's gonna have to pull a Dabo and hire a quality OC and DC and let them coach.  Herman has to learn to be a better CEO for the Texas Football program.  Bringing most of his staff from UH was a big mistake...

(After struggling as HC at Clemson, Dabo hired Chad Morris in 2011 and Brent Venables in 2012 and it turned Clemson around)

 

 

This just shows how stupid and outdated the whole head coach concept is.  Hey, you're awesome at this one thing.  We're going to promote and hire you to NOT do this one thing anymore, and to instead hire others (including positions you probably don't know how to evaluate) and have them do things, while you now oversee this thing, which is a completely different skill from coordinating.  

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Treefidy

Treefidy 1504

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6 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

Herman's gonna have to pull a Dabo and hire a quality OC and DC and let them coach.  Herman has to learn to be a better CEO for the Texas Football program.  Bringing most of his staff from UH was a big mistake...

(After struggling as HC at Clemson, Dabo hired Chad Morris in 2011 and Brent Venables in 2012 and it turned Clemson around)

 

Dabo has more in common with Charlie strong than Herman.   Dabo is very well liked by players and he's a great coach who understands staff management and fires poor performance   Dabo gets an A for being likable, an A for staff management and an A as a HC 

Charlie was very well liked by his players but he sucked as a coach and staff management.   Charlie gets an A for being likable, an F for staff management, and a D as a HC

Herman... not the most likable guy, doesn't understand staff management, doesn't fire underperformance/incompetence.  Herman gets a D for being a dick, an F for staff management, and maybe a C- as HC.  

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DanTheHorn

DanTheHorn 5061

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2 minutes ago, PilotsError said:

 

This just shows how stupid and outdated the whole head coach concept is.  Hey, you're awesome at this one thing.  We're going to promote and hire you to NOT do this one thing anymore, and to instead hire others (including positions you probably don't know how to evaluate) and have them do things, while you now oversee this thing, which is a completely different skill from coordinating.  

This is how it is done in business too. You are good at one level then you move up. You may suck but you may also become just as good at the next level. People that suck at lower levels most certainly will probably suck at the next level.

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ClubWhatever

ClubWhatever 12277

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2 minutes ago, DanTheHorn said:

This is how it is done in business too. You are good at one level then you move up. You may suck but you may also become just as good at the next level. People that suck at lower levels most certainly will probably suck at the next level.

In big business you would not be promoted to CEO after only 2 years of good but not stellar results as division manager and no previous management experience before that.  

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SilasCoade

SilasCoade 2622

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48 minutes ago, hookem48 said:

Duv quit on his route, Smith ran a lazy assed  high school route and didn't seem too concerned even after the INT. Sam doesn't get to wait till they're wide open to throw the ball.

Duv didn't quit, he was breaking back to the outside. Sam pre-determined he was throwing it to Smith no matter what. I give equal credit to both Smith and Sam for that one, but Sam is the upperclassman who's supposed to know better.

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 49910

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30 minutes ago, PilotsError said:

This just shows how stupid and outdated the whole head coach concept is.  Hey, you're awesome at this one thing.  We're going to promote and hire you to NOT do this one thing anymore, and to instead hire others (including positions you probably don't know how to evaluate) and have them do things, while you now oversee this thing, which is a completely different skill from coordinating.  

"Peter Principle"

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hookem48

hookem48 4808

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26 minutes ago, Llogg said:

Duv didn't quit, he was breaking back to the outside. Sam pre-determined he was throwing it to Smith no matter what. I give equal credit to both Smith and Sam for that one, but Sam is the upperclassman who's supposed to know better.

Sam needs to wait until receivers are wide the fuck open before he throws the ball, got it

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SilasCoade

SilasCoade 2622

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, hookem48 said:

Sam needs to wait until receivers are wide the fuck open before he throws the ball, got it

seriously? you're being childish. No. He needs to not predetermine where he's throwing before the snap. He needs to recognize when a receiver is knocked off his route and not in a winning position.

Edited by Llogg
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hookem48

hookem48 4808

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1 minute ago, Llogg said:

seriously? you're being childish. No. He needs to not predetermine where he's throwing before the snap. He needs to recognize when a receiver is knocked off his route and not in a winning position.

he has to trust his receivers to get across a defenders face or he can't play QB, period. 

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Wally Pryor

Wally Pryor 5388

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9 minutes ago, Texaspython said:

Yes, Charlie Strong was a terrible hire and demonstrably worse. We should have hung on longer and gotten a better hire. We’d be well advised to remember that now.

We weren't going to get a better hire because we had a monumental sham of an AD at that time who pretty much fucked up everything he touched. 

That clown Brown should have been fired the night of October 8, 2011.  Two disembowelments by OU were bad enough.   That third one should have had him cleaning out his office. 

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Rimbo

Rimbo 26853

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6 hours ago, Landomatic said:

I'm just enjoying not having to preface every post with, "I really want him to succeed because he's such a great guy, but..." before criticizing our head coach.

real life LOL at this.

Yeah, on the bright side, he's an arrogant rape apologist enabler! So we can fire all cannons.

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Apex73

Apex73 313

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2 hours ago, Hank Chinaski said:

But this misses the point. Of course just randomly "firing and hiring people" doesn't fix things. 

But when it becomes clear that people are bad at their jobs, it doesn't really do any good to keep them around indefinitely.

It has become clear that this coaching staff is bad. It isn't so much about the outcomes as it as about the indicators:

Herman has demonstrated that his teams will be often ill-prepared and will often make inexplicably stupid decisions on the field, that he supports a hilariously-bad defensive scheme, that he irrationally tries to sit on minuscule leads, that he doesn't want to call plays but has chosen against employing anyone capable of calling plays, that he won't upgrade position coaches whose position groups regularly underperform, that the staff he's assembled is unable to teach basic football fundamentals, ...we could go on for a while here.

The point is that there is sufficient evidence to conclude that he is no more than a mediocre head coach with a sub-mediocre staff. 

Thus...this isn't just firing people at random and hoping for the best. This is replacing someone who isn't good at his job. Of course there are no guarantees that the next guy will be (unless they hire a guy who has proven it over the last 15 years), but if we know x is bad and that y has provided reason to believe he'd be good...

And I'll add that of course Herman will be here for a while. He's not getting fired this year even if his team loses every game left on the schedule. I get that. But we had these same conversations when Strong was here, about "you can't just fire everyone blah blah blah"...well, turns out Texas couldn't have possibly fired Strong fast enough...and it's the same now with Herman. The evidence is there. Herman will not win anything of substance here in all likelihood unless he radically changes a lot. 

What's more likely - that he radically changes his overall philosophies, staff management and general coaching instincts, or that he doesn't?

I definitely get what you are saying and you make some valid points.  However there is also evidence of him turning the team around just 1 year ago.  The narrative was completely different then and will be if Texas somehow still wins the big 12.  I agree that some changes need to be made but this whole idea of just wipe everyone out immediately and hire Urban or whoever is beyond ridiculous and it’s not the way it works once again.  I definitely understand the frustration though.

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mdmost

mdmost 43851

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The problem with this constant false starting of being decent again is any change is going to set recruiting back. You're already seeing defensive guys decommitting. We're going to keep losing them until Orlando is gone and then we'll lose ones that wanted to play for Orlando. Of course, I can't blame any of these guys. Look at the results. If you're a WR, you look at OU. They're putting guys in the league consistently. If you're a defensive guy, go to LSU or another SEC school where they put you in the league. The players can't get past Orlando's bad schemes. So we're faced with trying to find a new DC and defensive position coaches with possibly a lame duck head coach, though I doubt CDC is thinking of removing Herman any time soon. I'll be interested to see how the turnout is for KSU. If we start tanking, apathy sets in again like it did for Strong. And there's the rub. Herman doesn't seem like a good enough head coach to squeeze out more wins from this current squad unless Sam shakes off his troubles and bails Herman out...again. That Sugar Bowl sure seems like Fool's Gold. 

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