Tom "the turtle" Herman [Lame Duck or greatest 5d chess player ever?]

[Tex Long 4348]

2 minutes ago, XYZ said:

Why would CDC do that???

Necause Mensa?

[Bill Lumbergh 7170]

Why would CDC do that???

I believe when this was set in motion, our last game was the sugar bowl.

Maybe it could have been stopped before it went through, but the optics on that are pretty bad from a recruiting standpoint if it was already in motion and gets stopped.

Worse than the optics of what we're putting on the field currently? Not sure.

[Sbbruin 21738]

51 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Damn rabbit holes.  I watched this clip on youtube, and man there are some awesome "guy freaks out at work" vids.  

[DixonHur 11227]

11 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

Recruiting, possibly. It is helpful to be able to show recruits that the head coach they expect to play for is signed through their period of eligibility. 

Could have gotten the same result...i.e. extension helping with recruitment... without the guarantee.  

"Herman signs extension through 2023".  Recruits aren't going to focus on the small print.  

CDC committed an unforced error that I'm sure he regrets.  I think he did it because we'd just won the Sugar Bowl and he wanted to make a splash as a new hire.

[ClubWhatever 12087]

At the time, he claimed he did it because we needed stability.  Firing a coach every 3 years is not that.  It's almost like he was putting the panic button out of reach on purpose.  You can argue whether that was smart business.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

8 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Could have gotten the same result...i.e. extension helping with recruitment... without the guarantee.  

"Herman signs extension through 2023".  Recruits aren't going to focus on the small print.  

I don't know, extending his contract on a non-guaranteed basis is a pretty obvious hedge. No, the recruits don't read the contracts, they listen to what their dipshit uncles and high school coaches tell them, and even those dumbasses would probably be able to point out an empty gesture for what it is.

Edited October 28, 2019 by SwanderedTalent

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

not saying I was in favor of the extension, but I can see where it made sense to CDC

[Gene Parmesan 3993]

If we had just won the sugar bowl, were there really recruits that needed to be swayed via a contract extension that Herman wasn't fixing to be fired? 

[tbone_ 14025]

How many of you have actually had to reach into your pocket to pay a coach’s salary or buyout?

 

[LTtxfan 48980]

32 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

Name a coach that got better despite egregious early mistakes, and whose tenure folks were ultimately satisfied with.

(Fixd)

Dabo.    Also Belichick (sucked at Cleveland)

Reminds me of a "Moneyball" quote Herman needs right now.....      "ADAPT OR DIE"

[DixonHur 11227]

7 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

I don't know, extending his contract on a non-guaranteed basis is a pretty obvious hedge. No, the recruits don't read the contracts, they listen to what their dipshit uncles and high school coaches tell them, and even those dumbasses would probably be able to point out an empty gesture for what it is.

Perhaps...dipshit uncles and HS coaches can be pretty dumb.  

Personally, I think guaranteed contracts a dumb for both the school and the recruit.  Why would anyone tie themselves to that kind of an anchor knowing how quickly things can change.

Do recruits really want to play for a coach whose on field production merits firing, just because he's too expensive to get fired?

If, on the other hand, he's doing well, there's no reason to worry for either the coach or the players.

I'm just not sure what the school gets from signing these types of contracts.  It's not like the guarantee keeps the coach at Texas.

[BabaYaga 15212]

1 minute ago, DixonHur said:

Perhaps...dipshit uncles and HS coaches can be pretty dumb.  

Personally, I think guaranteed contracts a dumb for both the school and the recruit.  Why would anyone tie themselves to that kind of an anchor knowing how quickly things can change.

Do recruits really want to play for a coach whose on field production merits firing, just because he's too expensive to get fired?

If, on the other hand, he's doing well, there's no reason to worry for either the coach or the players.

I'm just not sure what the school gets from signing these types of contracts.  It's not like the guarantee keeps the coach at Texas.

Fear of loss is a powerful impulse factor

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

Just now, LTtxfan said:

Dabo.    Also Belichick (sucked at Cleveland)

Reminds me of a "Moneyball" quote Herman needs right now.....      "ADAPT OR DIE"

I didn't say no coach could or had ever done it. I was asking Jinx if he'd ever followed one, as in rooted for a team coached by one of those guys. Because I haven't. Telling me to wait on Herman to complete a Belichick like evolution is like telling a guy to wait while his wife goes through the Jamie Lee Curtis evolution from "True Lies". 

 

11 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

If we had just won the sugar bowl, were there really recruits that needed to be swayed via a contract extension that Herman wasn't fixing to be fired? 

 maybe?

[DixonHur 11227]

2 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Fear of loss is a powerful impulse factor

The struggle against FOMO is real!

[CurlyDumps 4440]

15 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

 "ADAPT OR DIE"

Yeah, pretty much. How Herman responds this offseason will reveal a lot about his trajectory.

Now that he's been embarrassed by the staff of our biggest rival and competition for the conference,  pantsed by Patterson, and will probably get exposed by two or more staffs before December, what will he do?

Will he realize he can't imbue his coaching bros with his genius by sitting next to them in meetings? That simply being in the room with the great Tom Herman doesn't make his douchebag buddies good coaches?  Will he actually hire outside his comfort zone and bring in a couple rockstars who can actually scheme, call plays, and evolve his predictable bullshit? 

Or will he act like a thin-skinned pussy, double down on this dickless staff, and go into bunker mode a la Mack?

[Guest Lobo]

My guess—-, he grabs his sticks, gets in his Yukon, and goes golfing.   
 

 

[TwiceHorn 31283]

2 hours ago, jinx said:

Same.  I'm going to just go check in on the basketball baseball team.  Yeah, fuck it all.

Volleyball, golf, swimming, softball.

[TwiceHorn 31283]

26 minutes ago, CurlyDumps said:

Yeah, pretty much. How Herman responds this offseason will reveal a lot about his trajectory.

Now that he's been embarrassed by the staff of our biggest rival and competition for the conference,  pantsed by Patterson, and will probably get exposed by two or more staffs before December, what will he do?

Will he realize he can't imbue his coaching bros with his genius by sitting next to them in meetings? That simply being in the room with the great Tom Herman doesn't make his douchebag buddies good coaches?  Will he actually hire outside his comfort zone and bring in a couple rockstars who can actually scheme, call plays, and evolve his predictable bullshit? 

Or will he act like a thin-skinned pussy, double down on this dickless staff, and go into bunker mode a la Mack?

Yep, 64k question.  The fact that he already rode with his buddies is a bad one, maybe an ender by itself.  He can still recover, maybe.

[Jkwellborn 6653]

I absolutely hate when coaches bring along comfort hires. To an extent, I understand it. They should know how you like to do things. Makes it easier to keep people on the same page.

It normally makes it harder to be objective though.

Similar to the line about hiring good to great recruiters, instead of good to great teachers and coaches. The results begin to speak for themselves.

[Guest Lobo]

If Herman needs a comfort hire, get him a fucking service animal.  $6mm in total comp means nutt the Fuck up and win.  If the job or the Fanbase or the media or the pressure get to be too much for you just remember that’s what the fucking money is for.    Go fuck yourself you fucking child

You are a simpleton and a walking vagina who has no business in the company of men

[dcar00 14035]

I remember the one quote somewhere about Mack having a list of the best coaches he wanted for assistants if he got the blueblood job. to his credit I think he only brought Davis and Mad Dog.  Herman brought the entire hillbilly clan and then hired a couple of guys.  Drayton may have been the only one that I wouldn't describe as a sycophant but i could be wrong on that.

[cochamps 1879]

45 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Volleyball, golf, swimming, softball.

Rowing.  You forgot rowing!

[gmr548 16517]

nutt the Fuck up and win.

Houston Nutt to OC confirmed. Where do I send my $9.95?

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Nueces River Rat 5530]

3 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

I remember the one quote somewhere about Mack having a list of the best coaches he wanted for assistants if he got the blueblood job. to his credit I think he only brought Davis and Mad Dog.  Herman brought the entire hillbilly clan and then hired a couple of guys.  Drayton may have been the only one that I wouldn't describe as a sycophant but i could be wrong on that.

Davis was  a fantastic hire (snicker, snicker).  Thank god we head overwhelming talent during most of that time which  improvised and made him look like one of the "best."    Had we not had that talent, this whole century to date would have been  mediocrity  (aka aggy).  

[NeverMarryAStripper 21781]

1 hour ago, tbone_ said:

How many of you have actually had to reach into your pocket to pay a coach’s salary or buyout?

 

I'm pretty sure that quite a number of us had actually had to perform at the job we were hired to do, at considerably less than $5 million a year.

[tbone_ 14025]

I totally get that and agree. I’m just saying the amount is a straw man argument. Doesn’t matter if it’s $100K, $1M or $100M, none of us are paying.

 

Either he’s doing the job or he isn’t.

 

[tbone_ 14025]

...

 

[gmr548 16517]

Deleted double post

 

 

 

[NeverMarryAStripper 21781]

4 minutes ago, tbone_ said:

I totally get that and agree. I’m just saying the amount is a straw man argument. Doesn’t matter if it’s $100K, $1M or $100M, none of us are paying.

 

Either he’s doing the job or he isn’t.

 

No, but somebody will be paying so while the amount may not impact whether or not he should be fired, it will certainly impact whether or not he will be fire, and when

[nunna yo bizness 1687]

2 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

  "ADAPT OR DIE"

Great.  So our only hope is he does a line of tainted coke off a stripper's ass.

[Irish Wrist Watch 1349]

36 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

I'm pretty sure that quite a number of us had actually had to perform at the job we were hired to do, at considerably less than $5 million a year.

You're making less than $5mil a year? Didn't you get your degree?

[Guest Lobo]

Somebody take  coach Herman and his staff the short 1500 yard walk from dKR to the ransom Center.  If they get confused, remind them that distance is about what their scheme gives up every two games.   Tell them that inside that building are the archives of a successful person—-an American playwright, david Mamet.  He wrote a play called “Glengarry Glen Ross”.   
 

in that script is how we all now feel about you, Coach Herman.  And it is eloquently expressed by the great al Pacino as he addresses Kevin “Disgraced” Spacey—

“who told you, you could work with men?”

 

 

Edited October 28, 2019 by Lobo

[Bruh Man 3160]

Ballou thinks you guys are acting like 2 yr olds. Real fans wouldn't question a team with negative punt yards, more missed tackles than anyone in the country, and the worst defense in program history. 

 

Edited October 28, 2019 by Bruh Man

[DixonHur 11227]

9 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Somebody take  coach Herman and his staff the short 1500 yard walk from dKR to the ransom Center.  If they get confused, remind them that distance is about what their scheme gives up every two games.   Tell them that inside that building are the archives of a successful person—-an American playwright, david Mamet.  He wrote a play called “Glengarry Glen Ross”.   
 

in that script is how we all now feel about you, Coach Herman.  And it is eloquently expressed by the great al Pacino as he addresses Kevin “Disgraced” Spacey—

“who told you, you could work with men?”

 

 

Put that coffee down!  Coffee's for closers, Tom.

[Valmy77 13094]

2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Volleyball, golf, swimming, softball.

Tennis.

[Let 'Em Hang 27]

2 hours ago, CurlyDumps said:

Yeah, pretty much. How Herman responds this offseason will reveal a lot about his trajectory.

Now that he's been embarrassed by the staff of our biggest rival and competition for the conference,  pantsed by Patterson, and will probably get exposed by two or more staffs before December, what will he do?

Will he realize he can't imbue his coaching bros with his genius by sitting next to them in meetings? That simply being in the room with the great Tom Herman doesn't make his douchebag buddies good coaches?  Will he actually hire outside his comfort zone and bring in a couple rockstars who can actually scheme, call plays, and evolve his predictable bullshit? 

Or will he act like a thin-skinned pussy, double down on this dickless staff, and go into bunker mode a la Mack?

I'll take Number #2 for the win Alex

[Hookah Horns 3082]

13 minutes ago, Bruh Man said:

Ballou thinks you guys are acting like 2 yr olds. Real fans wouldn't question a team with negative punt yards, more missed tackles than anyone in the country, and the worst defense in program history. 

 

Who knew 2 year olds were good at identifying shitty ass coaching? 

[Wally Pryor 5244]

20 minutes ago, Bruh Man said:

Ballou thinks you guys are acting like 2 yr olds. Real fans wouldn't question a team with negative punt yards, more missed tackles than anyone in the country, and the worst defense in program history. 

 

Jesus, Patterson had Brian Davis on the payroll.  And now someone else with a W-2?

Dear lord.

[LTtxfan 48980]

35 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Somebody take  coach Herman and his staff the short 1500 yard walk from dKR to the ransom Center.  If they get confused, remind them that distance is about what their scheme gives up every two games.   Tell them that inside that building are the archives of a successful person—-an American playwright, david Mamet.  He wrote a play called “Glengarry Glen Ross”.    In that script is how we all now feel about you, Coach Herman.  And it is eloquently expressed by the great al Pacino as he addresses Kevin “Disgraced” Spacey— “who told you, you could work with men?”

 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2019 by LTtxfan

[Treefidy 1463]

19 hours ago, nunna yo bizness said:

Even that comes back to the OU philosophy of cheating at everything you do.  How long has it been a widely discussed topic of how OU's oline holds on every play.  2 decades..  They do it because they know the refs aren't going to throw a flag every play, so just keep holding and overall you gain more than you lose from it.  At Texas we try to avoid holding so we don't get penalized and basically play with one hand tied behind our back compared to what OU does when we play them.  They cheat at oline play and we don't.

And I'm not saying there hasn't been a talent differential, but there's still a portion of it that comes back to OU cheats and we think we're above doing that.

Don't forget at the cotton bowl the announcers actually said Grinch instructed his DBs to hold our receivers and make the officials call it.  It's actually sound game theory, the officials won't throw flags every down and if you set the precedent then they will likely only call the most egregious fouls.  

And we have tweedle dumb and tweedle dumber coaching our team.  Hey coaches, pull your head out of your ass so you can go fuck yourself.  

[Treefidy 1463]

7 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I think it's reading between the lines, or tea leaves.  There are signs.  Somewhat ambiguous signs.

This one from Sam after OU is a big one:

 

Ok.

linemen, go get the QB.  LBs, run support and light anyone the fuck up who gets near you.  DBs, cover someone and try to get a pick.  Basically keep it simple and just go do what you have all been doing for the past 10 or so years   

FUPM 1.7M.   I'm sending in my resume. I couldn't be worse than what we have now. 

Edited October 28, 2019 by Treefidy

[hookem48 4631]

23 minutes ago, Treefidy said:

Don't forget at the cotton bowl the announcers actually said Grinch instructed his DBs to hold our receivers and make the officials call it.  It's actually sound game theory, the officials won't throw flags every down and if you set the precedent then they will likely only call the most egregious fouls.  

And we have tweedle dumb and tweedle dumber coaching our team.  Hey coaches, pull your head out of your ass so you can go fuck yourself.  

6'5" 230 pound receivers letting 5'10" 180 pound DBs bitch slap them at the line is fucking embarrassing, stop crying about holding and use your 8 foot arms and get the fuck open. 

[Treefidy 1463]

5 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

I think that was me on hornsfans. 

Aww look, Katy is fixing to ban me again.  

[Shaggy3.0 1695]

Ballou thinks you guys are acting like 2 yr olds. Real fans wouldn't question a team with negative punt yards, more missed tackles than anyone in the country, and the worst defense in program history. 
 

Hahhahaha. Long game. Carry water for mensa to score points with Michelle. Then when he’s fired, she has a shoulder to cry on.

[Treefidy 1463]

5 hours ago, jinx said:

He needs to find a senior coach to put on his staff (not GDGD) that he can lean on for advice.  Adding Tomey was the best things that Mack ever did aside from signing Vince.  Hand seems like one of those guys, but I can't name another one.  

He needs to find a DC with skins on the wall and experience.  In my opinion, he has had to take time and effort away from the offense to tend to the defense.  He has zero ability to fix the defense and no one on his staff to turn to that can fix it.  The offense is being run by Beck based on the run / pass ratio.  The special teams isn't being coached at all.

I'm sure Tom feels like he is trying to fix the problems, but the bad thing is that he caused them by not shedding dead weight in the name of "continuity."  I hope he is as smart as he thinks he is.  He really needs some people in his ear to let him know what he is fucking up.

He did.  He went and got 3 guys who all got fired for going a combined 36-100 over the past 4 years.  Obviously they know what his problems are and how to fix them. 

[nunna yo bizness 1687]

I know the options on hand are underwhelming for what we would like, but looking at their head coaching records isn't necessarily an indicator of what they might be able to do.  We wouldn't be asking any of them to be head coaches, just competent coordinators or even position coaches.  Can they be that?  Maybe or maybe not, but I know that what we have in those positions now sucks and there's at least a chance of improving with a change.  Particularly at DC.  Maybe a new DC could get the existing position coaches to actually do some decent coaching too.

A good head coach isn't going to be afraid to make a move midseason if things aren't working.  Riley changed DCs midseason last year despite having only one loss because he knew change was needed, and still made the playoffs.  He didn't keep Stoops out of fear of making a midseason change, even though you could argue McNeal wasn't a sure success either.  There are other examples out there of guys that had the balls to make a move because what they were doing wasn't working.

[Levi 2576]

52 minutes ago, Treefidy said:

Don't forget at the cotton bowl the announcers actually said Grinch instructed his DBs to hold our receivers and make the officials call it.  It's actually sound game theory, the officials won't throw flags every down and if you set the precedent then they will likely only call the most egregious fouls.  

And we have tweedle dumb and tweedle dumber coaching our team.  Hey coaches, pull your head out of your ass so you can go fuck yourself.  

“Listen, guys you suck at the whole coverage thing. I meant what I said about y’all to incoming recruits. So, our game plan is to hold on and never let go, don’t even look back. When the refs start throwing flags...well we’ll cross that bridge when it comes but it’s the big12, so don’t bank on it being called ” 
  
 -Grinch...probably. 

[Jkwellborn 6653]

Somebody take  coach Herman and his staff the short 1500 yard walk from dKR to the ransom Center.  If they get confused, remind them that distance is about what their scheme gives up every two games.   Tell them that inside that building are the archives of a successful person—-an American playwright, david Mamet.  He wrote a play called “Glengarry Glen Ross”.   
 
in that script is how we all now feel about you, Coach Herman.  And it is eloquently expressed by the great al Pacino as he addresses Kevin “Disgraced” Spacey—
“who told you, you could work with men?”
 
 

It’s more like a reimagining.

[jinx 2635]

7 hours ago, SwanderedTalent said:

Name a coach that you personally patiently waited on to get better despite egregious early mistakes, and whose tenure you were ultimately satisfied with.

I feel like we need to go Costanza on this. We've tried it the tut-tut, "The University of Texas doesn't do things that way" way and Oklahoma is leaving us in the dust. Let's try it the "we want to win" way for a while and see if it's better. Worst case is the same either way: we're digging out of more rubble. Best case doing it Our Way seems to be Mack Brown.

There aren't many, and I have lost a lot of faith in Herman.  I'm just getting old and learning to always try to find the positive.

I can say as a part time Gator fan who is surrounded by Gators, that they look back on the Meyer years as quite a bit tainted.  Oh sure, no one is handing back those trophies.  But considering the distain they hold against FSU for the way they have run that program, they sure don't like discussing the Urban aftermath.  

And for what it is worth, I was just as certain of Herman's ability as  I was Urban's going in.

Edited October 29, 2019 by jinx

[dcar00 14035]

2 hours ago, nunna yo bizness said:

I know the options on hand are underwhelming for what we would like, but looking at their head coaching records isn't necessarily an indicator of what they might be able to do.  We wouldn't be asking any of them to be head coaches, just competent coordinators or even position coaches.  Can they be that?  Maybe or maybe not, but I know that what we have in those positions now sucks and there's at least a chance of improving with a change.  Particularly at DC.  Maybe a new DC could get the existing position coaches to actually do some decent coaching too.

A good head coach isn't going to be afraid to make a move midseason if things aren't working.  Riley changed DCs midseason last year despite having only one loss because he knew change was needed, and still made the playoffs.  He didn't keep Stoops out of fear of making a midseason change, even though you could argue McNeal wasn't a sure success either.  There are other examples out there of guys that had the balls to make a move because what they were doing wasn't working.

he had mcneal is the key.  Herman has no such option, whether by design or by sheer stupidity.