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The $20,000 American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, and no touchscreen


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Posted
4 hours ago, BurntEyes said:

Good article in broad strokes, but for a real comparison it should have included the Mazda B series trucks. 

Remember when Mazda made affordable small trucks, admittedly with Mitsubishi engines for the majority of the time?

I do too.

 

It was silver but I used to drive one of these around in high school picking up parts working at my Dad’s car repair shop

 

 

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Posted

I would also say that the used car market is also stupid right now.  Incredibly stupid. Cars hold value, high-miles are not depreciating as fast. And money is about to get more expensive. 
 

I do think we are primed for a return to small, affordable cars. There is value in being a first mover. 

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Posted

I drove one of these in high school. It was glorious. Two 20 gallon tanks and gas was 80 cents a gallon. 

I wish I still had it. 

 

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Posted
59 minutes ago, UTexasFight said:

It was silver but I used to drive one of these around in high school picking up parts working at my Dad’s car repair shop

 

 

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This was my first truck (one just like it).  Bought it used while I was still in college.  It was a beast.

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Posted
53 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I would also say that the used car market is also stupid right now.  Incredibly stupid. Cars hold value, high-miles are not depreciating as fast. And money is about to get more expensive. 
 

I do think we are primed for a return to small, affordable cars. There is value in being a first mover. 

The US set a new record average age of car ownership at 12 years in 2024. Lots of factors involved in that, but sure as shit, not wanting to spend a down payment on a house, and the fun economic issues we're facing are certainly a factor.

New cars don't all need to be $50k+ which is the average "starting cost" for a new car in the US. Prices have been dropping a bit since the 2022 peak, but I really think, or maybe hope a god damn market correction is finally coming. If some manufacturers focused on that market now, they could make their own market and own it. 

I'm looking at YOU Toyota!

But I'd take you Honda, Ford or Chevy.

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Posted

I’ll play. Here was my first truck.

still have it. Has come in handy having as a backup vehicle from time to time 

I will not trust my son to 350 single cab for his first vehicle (and don’t know why my parents did)

 

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

The US set a new record average age of car ownership at 12 years in 2024. Lots of factors involved in that, but sure as shit, not wanting to spend a down payment on a house, and the fun economic issues we're facing are certainly a factor.

New cars don't all need to be $50k+ which is the average "starting cost" for a new car in the US. Prices have been dropping a bit since the 2022 peak, but I really think, or maybe hope a god damn market correction is finally coming. If some manufacturers focused on that market now, they could make their own market and own it. 

I'm looking at YOU Toyota!

But I'd take you Honda, Ford or Chevy.

I wonder how much of that also has to do with the car sales industry. They have made it so bleak to even think about expending such a waste of time and effort. When you have places like amazon and even walmart/target/HEB making purchasing items super easy and fast. You still have most dealerships (not Carmax) still want you to spend several hours a day haggling.

I know I put off buying a car for a couple of years because I absolutely dreaded the purchasing process.

 

It literally should be.  "Your Price is X online. I'm paying X plus tax. Email me to stuff for financing. I'll see if your rate is better than my bank."

30 minutes tops at the actual dealership

Edited by Jameslaw121
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, UTexasFight said:

It was silver but I used to drive one of these around in high school picking up parts working at my Dad’s car repair shop

 

 

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My stepbrother had one of these in …let’s call it track meet orange as his first vehicle. I drove it one day and got stuck in bad traffic.  No airflow and no a/c and about 105 outside in Dallas in summer. That was brutal. 

Edited by Pato del Muerto
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Agree.  Hell, I'm urban and a good example of that.  95% of my driving is commuting and/or other driving within a city.  But for that 5%....I have to go to court in far-flung counties, I go hunting and fishing in the sticks, etc.  In other words....driving where I am uncomfortable relying on an electric charge alone.  Being able to run on gasoline is necessary.  Maybe someday it won't be (when there is adequate charging network/infrastructure, even in West Possum Dick, Texas).

too bad you only have one car in your household.

 

  

10 minutes ago, Jameslaw121 said:

I wonder how much of that also has to do with the car sales industry. They have made it so bleak to even think about expending such a waste of time and effort. When you have places like amazon and even walmart/target/HEB making purchasing items super easy and fast. You still have most dealerships (not Carmax) still want you to spend several hours a day haggling.

I know I put off buying a car for a couple of years because I absolutely dreaded the purchasing process.

 

It literally should be.  "Your Price is X online. I'm paying X plus tax. Email me to stuff for financing. I'll see if your rate is better than my bank."

30 minutes tops at the actual dealership

good luck finding a car dealer in houston that will sell you a used car for what they've got it advertised + TTL. there's always some mandatory ad-on item or something they claim is a "fee".

Edited by elfenix
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

My stepbrother had one of these in …let’s call it track meet orange as his first vehicle. I drove it one day and got stuck in bad traffic.  No airflow and no a/c and about 105 outside in Dallas in summer. That was brutal. 

Well, if you had pulled up next to me in my um.. "Bronze" 1980 Honda Accord it would have been on dude! I would have definitely out sweat you cause my no tint hatchback window really brought home the pain. That car suffered more than me though... 

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Edited by BurntEyes
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Posted
11 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

My stepbrother had one of these in …let’s call it track meet orange as his first vehicle. I drove it one day and got stuck in bad traffic.  No airflow and no a/c and about 105 outside in Dallas in summer. That was brutal. 

Definitely sounds about right. The one I drive didn't have a/c…or least a/c that worked.

thanks for bringing back that memory 

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Posted
11 minutes ago, Jameslaw121 said:

I wonder how much of that also has to do with the car sales industry. They have made it so bleak to even think about expending such a waste of time and effort. When you have places like amazon and even walmart/target/HEB making purchasing items super easy and fast. You still have most dealerships (not Carmax) still want you to spend several hours a day haggling.

I know I put off buying a car for a couple of years because I absolutely dreaded the purchasing process.

 

It literally should be.  "Your Price is X online. I'm paying X plus tax. Email me to stuff for financing. I'll see if your rate is better than my bank."

30 minutes tops at the actual dealership

You can do just that now with the world, some will even deliver it. 

Last and only new vehicle I ever bought, I drove it once. Looked up the Blue Book prices, looked at prices in other areas, came to a number, basically "excellent value", it was end of month. I called, told sales person binary ones and zeros, yes or no, I have a cashier's check for $X I'll come by today or find someone that will sell it for that amount. I was working the dealer manager, she said I'll check with finance. Called me back in 15, went and picked it up. 

Thats a whole different thread though.. probably not a conversation for this one.

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Posted

When was that? I Used Carmax the last two times. First took about 2 hours (becuase we actually choose a different car than we reserved thanks to the salesmans suggestion.) Second time took 30 minutes. I dropped my wife off too start the paperwork while I ran a work errand. It was ready when I got back. around 45 minutes later.

On both of those 2 & 3 years ago, I called around and I couldn't get a sales person to commit to what was advertised. It was always,  "Come in and talk to me, I'll give you a good deal." "Oh and if you don't come in, enjoy the plethora of call backs from me, my finance person, and my sales managers. We'll give you a week before you get calls from our VP and owners."

Posted
8 minutes ago, Jameslaw121 said:

On both of those 2 & 3 years ago, I called around and I couldn't get a sales person to commit to what was advertised. It was always,  "Come in and talk to me, I'll give you a good deal." "Oh and if you don't come in, enjoy the plethora of call backs from me, my finance person, and my sales managers. We'll give you a week before you get calls from our VP and owners."

4-5 years ago, I tried the email route: Give me your out the door price on this car. Salesman said if I wasn't coming in to see the car, then he wasn't going to talk to me. I never heard from them again. 

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Sandman said:

4-5 years ago, I tried the email route: Give me your out the door price on this car. Salesman said if I wasn't coming in to see the car, then he wasn't going to talk to me. I never heard from them again. 

Find the vin you want on their lot. Research if you can a specific sales person at the dealership from google/yelp sort of review, find sales mngr name if you can. Give them a total cost you're willing to pay that day, pre-financed or cash. Offer to email pre-approval documents if they want. Commit to a time frame for arrival. Call in the mid-morning.

Move on to the next dealership if needed.

Edited by BurntEyes
Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, Jameslaw121 said:

I wonder how much of that also has to do with the car sales industry. They have made it so bleak to even think about expending such a waste of time and effort. When you have places like amazon and even walmart/target/HEB making purchasing items super easy and fast. You still have most dealerships (not Carmax) still want you to spend several hours a day haggling.

I know I put off buying a car for a couple of years because I absolutely dreaded the purchasing process.

 

It literally should be.  "Your Price is X online. I'm paying X plus tax. Email me to stuff for financing. I'll see if your rate is better than my bank."

30 minutes tops at the actual dealership

Under appreciated is that with all the required features, it’s not that much different in price to build an “entry” car versus more upmarket and the margins are just much better even taking into account volume.
 

Manufacturers also used to always want an entry point to build loyalty under the theory you get a young buyer in a Nova then you get a family man in a Impala or a Buick and then a retiree in a Caddy.  That guy and buyer doesn’t exist anymore. No one just goes down to the same lot they always go to when they need a car and pick from what’s there. Truck guys are the last bastion of brand loyalty and that’s dying.
 

This was a big part of the stated reason Toyota killed Scion, Scion buyers were not particularly inclined to graduate to Toyota or Lexus over any other brand in that range— and that’s why Toyota created Scion.  
 

 

Edited by 956 Worldwide
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Posted

I’m rooting for this thing to succeed. I like what they are trying to do.

If it takes off, my guess is the customization aspect would be a driver.

Assuming of course the head of the company isn’t a Nazi traitor pos.

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Posted
12 hours ago, Celery Man said:

I love the idea of having some basically go kart type vehicle for quick drives around town. LIke a Willys Jeep or a Thing or something, except I don't want to be a jeep guy

You'd have to deal with all those fucking toy ducks you end up with.

I like the idea of this truck, it looks like it can easily hold a cargo of something equal to or shorter than 6'2", and that weighs under 260 pounds, and unlike a lot of cars, it doesn't have a bunch of bullshit GPS/network tracking stuff that can track you across state lines or out into remote areas where there are deep coal pits partially filled with water. 

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Bevo said:

 

Are you sure the car was the problem?

In high school I got plenty of pussy and had to drive my dad's beat up '79 Plymouth. It ain't the car

Edited by Hermanator
Posted
11 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

In high school I got plenty of pussy and had to drive my dad's beat up '79 Plymouth. It ain't the car

Maybe, maybe not, now try cycling to the bar.

Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

This was my first truck (one just like it).  Bought it used while I was still in college.  It was a beast.

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Same here. My first truck was a ‘93 Mazda B2600i 4x4 SE-5 regular cab. Last year that Mazda made their own rig. Unstoppable. It had 187,000 miles on the odometer and ran like a fucking top when I traded it in for 2000 Chevy S-10 ZR2, which is still the most bone-headed vehicle decision I’ve ever made.

 

Edited by smuggs
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Posted
15 hours ago, choripan said:

They can probably sell enough. I still see a shitload of single cab Rangers holding on. Oddly enough, almost never an S10, though.

My boys first truck was a standard Ford fucking ranger. He finally sold it with 350k on the odometer with original tranny and motor.  I loved that thing. Would pick one up in a second. But then he picked up a 2005 tundra out of California that is fucking perfect. Talk about the battle of the cockroaches. Those two trucks will outlive us all. 

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Posted
20 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

The bottom line is if it's reliable and price competitive it will sell. There is absolutely a significant market for vehicles like this. If it's a clunker piece of shit that falls apart after 6 months it won't.

I’m not sure there is a significant US market for this. I guess I could think of a use case or two for an average American needing it but there would be more use cases where it fails.

as for cost and reliability, I guess you’re right but that’s assuming a lot. I could say that I’m developing a new car that legitimately rivals a Lamborghini but price it at $30k all while it has higher reliability. Easy to say and create AI images of it, but difficult to deliver.

Posted

No, it won't pull a 38" Cape Horn with 2 300's on it.  No, it won't go from El Paso to Orange on a single charge.  People will need to use their brains to see if it will fit their needs.  I'm going out on a limb and have no experience with EV's of any sort, but I bet it will get you around the city and home in a reasonable way.  YT vid dropped yesterday.  Interesting.  BTW, I think it would make a kid a good first vehicle.

 

Posted
13 hours ago, BurntEyes said:

The US set a new record average age of car ownership at 12 years in 2024. Lots of factors involved in that, but sure as shit, not wanting to spend a down payment on a house, and the fun economic issues we're facing are certainly a factor.

New cars don't all need to be $50k+ which is the average "starting cost" for a new car in the US. Prices have been dropping a bit since the 2022 peak, but I really think, or maybe hope a god damn market correction is finally coming. If some manufacturers focused on that market now, they could make their own market and own it. 

I'm looking at YOU Toyota!

But I'd take you Honda, Ford or Chevy.

 

Most of the price increase I would call inflation. Sometime before 2000 (I would guess 98), I purchased a Grand Cherokee - It was expensive at the time - around $34K and had a 3/36,000mi warranty and right out of warranty had transmission issues. So I purchased Hyundai Santa Fe with the logic that it was $12,000 less for essentially the same car, came with a 10/100,000K warranty and if I had problems with it - who cares - it wasn't a huge expense. So basically, I paid $22K for a fully loaded Santa Fe in 2002/3, and never had a problem with it. In 2012, I purchased another one for $28,000 fully loaded. In 2024, I went to look for cars and everything was starting at $45K. The fully loaded Santa Fe was now $44K, an Audi SQ5 was $62K, a Grand Cherokee was $59K... So the way I look at it is that previous price increases were pretty linear but recently there was a a huge spike in prices. And now the price of a car far outstrips the typical wage. I see very little difference in the $44K Hyundai Santa Fe in 2024 and the $22K or $28K Hyundai Santa Fe in 2002 and 2012, In some ways it is worse because it went from a V6 to a V4. Similarly, my dad likes sports cars. He bought an Acura NSX in 1998 for $75K and in 2022 an Acura NSX came in at $170K.

 

 

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Posted
31 minutes ago, Bevo said:

 

Most of the price increase I would call inflation. Sometime before 2000 (I would guess 98), I purchased a Grand Cherokee - It was expensive at the time - around $34K and had a 3/36,000mi warranty and right out of warranty had transmission issues. So I purchased Hyundai Santa Fe with the logic that it was $12,000 less for essentially the same car, came with a 10/100,000K warranty and if I had problems with it - who cares - it wasn't a huge expense. So basically, I paid $22K for a fully loaded Santa Fe in 2002/3, and never had a problem with it. In 2012, I purchased another one for $28,000 fully loaded. In 2024, I went to look for cars and everything was starting at $45K. The fully loaded Santa Fe was now $44K, an Audi SQ5 was $62K, a Grand Cherokee was $59K... So the way I look at it is that previous price increases were pretty linear but recently there was a a huge spike in prices. And now the price of a car far outstrips the typical wage. I see very little difference in the $44K Hyundai Santa Fe in 2024 and the $22K or $28K Hyundai Santa Fe in 2002 and 2012, In some ways it is worse because it went from a V6 to a V4. Similarly, my dad likes sports cars. He bought an Acura NSX in 1998 for $75K and in 2022 an Acura NSX came in at $170K.

My exact same options and trim level of my 2019 model year car is nearly double now in 2025. 

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Posted

This all makes me very grateful that my wife and I don’t give a shit about cars except in two respects: 1) for primary vehicle, give us reliability and comfort. A smooth highway ride, nice interior features, and doesn’t need a lot of maintenance. We each have 2020 era Korean SUVs (bought hers, mine was my mother’s for years, almost no miles on it), they do the trick. Then 2) I need a truck. Not often, but when I need it, I need it - hunting, fishing, yes I do occasionally haul shit, tow a trailer (a smoker, a boat, etc). So, I still have my 99 F-150 V8 4wd, that I bought new in 99. Coupla years ago, put $2500 into it to finally fix a buncha things (fuel pump, doors that were busted, AC). Still tools along and does its thing. People stop me in parking lots asking if I’m interested in selling it. Nope. Gonna keep it till it’s wrecked or goes full-on tits up…and even then, I can surely drop a new powertrain into it for 20% of what a new truck would cost.
It’s ugly, and he paint is faded, my wife kinda hates it…but she has to repeatedly acknowledge how handy it is.

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Posted
14 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

This all makes me very grateful that my wife and I don’t give a shit about cars except in two respects: 1) for primary vehicle, give us reliability and comfort. A smooth highway ride, nice interior features, and doesn’t need a lot of maintenance. We each have 2020 era Korean SUVs (bought hers, mine was my mother’s for years, almost no miles on it), they do the trick. Then 2) I need a truck. Not often, but when I need it, I need it - hunting, fishing, yes I do occasionally haul shit, tow a trailer (a smoker, a boat, etc). So, I still have my 99 F-150 V8 4wd, that I bought new in 99. Coupla years ago, put $2500 into it to finally fix a buncha things (fuel pump, doors that were busted, AC). Still tools along and does its thing. People stop me in parking lots asking if I’m interested in selling it. Nope. Gonna keep it till it’s wrecked or goes full-on tits up…and even then, I can surely drop a new powertrain into it for 20% of what a new truck would cost.
It’s ugly, and he paint is faded, my wife kinda hates it…but she has to repeatedly acknowledge how handy it is.

We taking it to Texas vs. Land thieves?

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Posted
20 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

This all makes me very grateful that my wife and I don’t give a shit about cars except in two respects: 1) for primary vehicle, give us reliability and comfort. A smooth highway ride, nice interior features, and doesn’t need a lot of maintenance. We each have 2020 era Korean SUVs (bought hers, mine was my mother’s for years, almost no miles on it), they do the trick. Then 2) I need a truck. Not often, but when I need it, I need it - hunting, fishing, yes I do occasionally haul shit, tow a trailer (a smoker, a boat, etc). So, I still have my 99 F-150 V8 4wd, that I bought new in 99. Coupla years ago, put $2500 into it to finally fix a buncha things (fuel pump, doors that were busted, AC). Still tools along and does its thing. People stop me in parking lots asking if I’m interested in selling it. Nope. Gonna keep it till it’s wrecked or goes full-on tits up…and even then, I can surely drop a new powertrain into it for 20% of what a new truck would cost.
It’s ugly, and he paint is faded, my wife kinda hates it…but she has to repeatedly acknowledge how handy it is.

A couple of times a year I look into replacing our 2013 f150 since it’s more truck than we need anymore, but nothing makes sense financially. And it’s only got like 130k on it and runs like a top. A good running truck is a tough thing to part with. 

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Posted
We taking it to Texas vs. Land thieves?

I’m willing. She’s up for the drive these days. Gotta put a quart of oil in every 1,000 miles or so because the main gasket is shot, but a few quarts of oil a year is a lot cheaper than a full gasket replacement. She’s got 150k miles on her. I put another 3k a year on her in recent years. She may outlive me.
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Posted
5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


I’m willing. She’s up for the drive these days. Gotta put a quart of oil in every 1,000 miles or so because the main gasket is shot, but a few quarts of oil a year is a lot cheaper than a full gasket replacement. She’s got 150k miles on her. I put another 3k a year on her in recent years. She may outlive me.

How does that pass emissions?

Posted
7 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


Hellifiknow, but it did.
Of course, I didn’t register it at all from 2013-2024. It’s only been re-registered for a bit over a year.

When it leaks out of a gasket and burns off in the engine compartment, it doesn’t end up in the tailpipe where they measure. 

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Posted
16 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


Hellifiknow, but it did.
Of course, I didn’t register it at all from 2013-2024. It’s only been re-registered for a bit over a year.

I was out of registration a whole 5 weeks and got popped by HPD. Shit luck.

Posted
7 minutes ago, elfenix said:

I was out of registration a whole 5 weeks and got popped by HPD. Shit luck.

Back in around 2004 I worked with a guy and noticed his sticker expired in 1988. It was ft when they were state shaped.  Daily driver. I’m pretty sure he worked such that he only drove at night. 

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