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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, achooloco said:

Nope. She correctly called out a bullshit ice admin warrant that has no legal binding effect.

That's a Twitter opinion.  Such a warrant is fully effective, but doesn't allow officers to enter private property without consent.  Nor do they permit or require non-federal officers to execute them.

 

Edited by TwiceHorn
Posted
12 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

That's a Twitter opinion.  Such a warrant is fully effective, but doesn't allow officers to enter private property without consent.  Nor do they permit or require non-federal officers to execute them.

 

It’s not effective. Ice admin warrants don’t allow you access to homes or property. 

Posted
6 minutes ago, achooloco said:

It’s not effective. Ice admin warrants don’t allow you access to homes or property. 

Which is what I said.

They are effective to authorize ICE officers to make arrests.

I think there's some confusion about search vs. arrest warrants.

Posted
4 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Which is what I said.

They are effective to authorize ICE officers to make arrests.

I think there's some confusion about search vs. arrest warrants.

There is definitely some confusion. I’m not in the field but close enough to know that Pro bono immigration attorneys across nyc are taught ice admin warrants are full of shit and never let them in. 

now sure, the nuance is there so both viewpoints can be right and thus the confusion exists. But god, the constitution, and ethics should dictate anything magat advocated is wrong. They are the empire. They are wrong. They are wrong here. It isn’t  a debate 

Posted
2 hours ago, cabowabo said:

Lighten up bro. Maybe you should go key a few Teslas to blow off steam. 

Are you the dude whose wife left him for someone she met in rehab?

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Posted
21 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Are you the dude whose wife left him for someone she met in rehab?

His wife wears stretchy pants from Lane Bryant so that is a no.

Posted
2 hours ago, cabowabo said:

Lighten up bro. Maybe you should go key a few Teslas to blow off steam. 

You actually think you’re doing well so far 

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Posted
34 minutes ago, achooloco said:

There is definitely some confusion. I’m not in the field but close enough to know that Pro bono immigration attorneys across nyc are taught ice admin warrants are full of shit and never let them in. 

now sure, the nuance is there so both viewpoints can be right and thus the confusion exists. But god, the constitution, and ethics should dictate anything magat advocated is wrong. They are the empire. They are wrong. They are wrong here. It isn’t  a debate 

Here's the thing.  Full search and arrest warrants in compliance with the 4th Amendment are signed by a judge/magistrate on a showing of probable cause that a crime was committed (both types of warrant), and for search what premises are to be searched, for what type of evidence, and how the premises and evidence are connected to the crime.  Both include the ability to enter personal property for the search or arrest.

Administrative warrants are for less-than-criminal proceedings, of which immigration is one.  The 4th Amendment doesn't apply to non-criminal proceedings, per se.  They do authorize officers to make arrests in public places, but in a nod to the 4th Amendment, don't permit entry on private property without consent.

They're not the same as a criminal search or arrest warrant.  But then again they have no application in criminal matters.  And immigration is not a criminal matter in most cases.

But yeah, since they cant' come on private property, you can tell them to fuck off if they knock on your door.

The lawfare article I cited goes through the case law that state officials have no duty to assist federal officials and that extends so far that states can make laws forbidding state officials from cooperating or assisting.

Ironically, Dugan is charged with 18 USC 1505, the Trump 1/6 statute, which the Supreme Court ruled pretty much applies only to documentary/evidentiary obstruction, narrowing the case against Trump, and making it non-viable against Dugan.  The other statute is harboring a fugitive, which probably means something more overt than what she did.

She probably would have been better off to order the agents not to come in her courtroom.  Ultimately what she did didn't hamper his arrest much.

 

Posted
16 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Here's the thing.  Full search and arrest warrants in compliance with the 4th Amendment are signed by a judge/magistrate on a showing of probable cause that a crime was committed (both types of warrant), and for search what premises are to be searched, for what type of evidence, and how the premises and evidence are connected to the crime.  Both include the ability to enter personal property for the search or arrest.

Administrative warrants are for less-than-criminal proceedings, of which immigration is one.  The 4th Amendment doesn't apply to non-criminal proceedings, per se.  They do authorize officers to make arrests in public places, but in a nod to the 4th Amendment, don't permit entry on private property without consent.

They're not the same as a criminal search or arrest warrant.  But then again they have no application in criminal matters.  And immigration is not a criminal matter in most cases.

But yeah, since they cant' come on private property, you can tell them to fuck off if they knock on your door.

The lawfare article I cited goes through the case law that state officials have no duty to assist federal officials and that extends so far that states can make laws forbidding state officials from cooperating or assisting.

Ironically, Dugan is charged with 18 USC 1505, the Trump 1/6 statute, which the Supreme Court ruled pretty much applies only to documentary/evidentiary obstruction, narrowing the case against Trump, and making it non-viable against Dugan.  The other statute is harboring a fugitive, which probably means something more overt than what she did.

She probably would have been better off to order the agents not to come in her courtroom.  Ultimately what she did didn't hamper his arrest much.

 

Right so see below…

8 hours ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

Twice should be along anytime now to tell us to be patient and let the legal system do its thing.  A furrowed brow should do. 

 

Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, achooloco said:

Right so see below…

 

Yeah, except that's not what I said.

I said the Twitter take, like most twitter takes, was shit.

Because Twitter is shit.

I don't really care for counterfactuals from either side.  In that respect, we have to be better.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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Posted
22 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yeah, except that's not what I said.

I said the Twitter take, like most twitter takes, was shit.

Because Twitter is shit.

I don't really care for counterfactuals from either side.  In that respect, we have to be better.

You’re on the right side of history but if multiple people telling you the below doesn’t register, I don’t know how else to explain it to you. 

8 hours ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

Twice should be along anytime now to tell us to be patient and let the legal system do its thing.  A furrowed brow should do. 

 



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