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Sam Ehlinger

wild_turkey

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HuntinHorn

HuntinHorn 975

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21 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Ash was 57.2% his freshman year and then 67.3% his sophomore year. As the saying goes, most players see their biggest improvement between years one and two. There are exceptions, but the fact that they're rare is why you remember them. Ash was 55-72 (76.4%) against our non-conference schedule his sophomore season.

Ehlinger was 57.5% his freshman year and is 57.6% so far in his sophomore year.

Colt McCoy, who some people will want to point out as improving most after year two, was 68.2% his true freshman season.

Jury is still out....I'll wait and see...

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Bateshorn

Bateshorn 9,905

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So, I can get my Westlake Fanboi on with the best of Chaparrals, but Erhlinger is just okay.  If put into the right offense that takes advantage of this power running abilities and doesn't ask him to win the game with arm talent, he can succeed, assuming he's supported by this defense.  But there's nothing in his play to date that suggests he's gonna take us to the proven land. n

Which for you fools that refuse to listen is how he has the most value to us:  As a grind it out starter who can get us to 8-4, hopefully win a decent bowl, keep the recruiting mojo going and then turn the keys over to one of the young QBs on the roster.

Edited by Bateshorn
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elguapo

elguapo 4,583

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32 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Ash was 57.2% his freshman year and then 67.3% his sophomore year. As the saying goes, most players see their biggest improvement between years one and two. There are exceptions, but the fact that they're rare is why you remember them. Ash was 55-72 (76.4%) against our non-conference schedule his sophomore season.

Ehlinger was 57.5% his freshman year and is 57.6% so far in his sophomore year.

Colt McCoy, who some people will want to point out as improving most after year two, was 68.2% his true freshman season.

Should we compare who Ash had as OC vs who Ehlinger gets to work with?

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Gene Parmesan

Gene Parmesan 3,993

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Just now, Katfid54 said:

Also, Ehlinger himself satisfies your post.  Buechele was a "two year incumbent starter" who lost his job.

That's a coaching change though, and Buechele was only the starter his Freshman year.  I'm not saying it doesn't happen so you literally don't have to post the instances, but just like the incumbent wins elections, they win spring training QB battles as well.  I'd put the odds in Sam being starter next year under Herman over Rising barring injury. 

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Katfid54

Katfid54 8,592

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Just now, Gene Parmesan said:

That's a coaching change though, and Buechele was only the starter his Freshman year.  I'm not saying it doesn't happen so you literally don't have to post the instances, but just like the incumbent wins elections, they win spring training QB battles as well.  I'd put the odds in Sam being starter next year under Herman over Rising barring injury. 

Buechele was the starter at Maryland (our fist game) and against Mizzou (our last game) last year.  He started six of our games last year.

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Vertigo

Vertigo 20,267

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38 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Ash was 57.2% his freshman year and then 67.3% his sophomore year. As the saying goes, most players see their biggest improvement between years one and two. There are exceptions, but the fact that they're rare is why you remember them. Ash was 55-72 (76.4%) against our non-conference schedule his sophomore season.

Ehlinger was 57.5% his freshman year and is 57.6% so far in his sophomore year.

Colt McCoy, who some people will want to point out as improving most after year two, was 68.2% his true freshman season.

I would consider the USC game a bit of an outlier due to the amount of deep shots we took. I bet he ends up around 62-63% on the year. 

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Gene Parmesan

Gene Parmesan 3,993

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I forgot how much they split time last year.  I know he started Maryland but I honesty forgot everything after that.  I don't really think you could call either of them the starting QB for 2017.  So Sam would basically only be a 1 year starter this offseason.  My point was mainly for anyone who can't envision Sam being QB1 in the future.  I'm not holding my breath that Rising wins whatever QB battle we have next spring.

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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4,275

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11 minutes ago, elguapo said:

Should we compare who Ash had as OC vs who Ehlinger gets to work with?

again, why? it's not as if ehlinger is some awesome qb tasking who's being stunted by poor offensive coaching, he's just not a great quarterback, period. we don't need to compare the talent around him or the coaches he has to any qbs from the past, because the bottom line is that he's just not that good. you could put ehlinger on the 2008 or 2009 teams and we'd have lost 4 games each year.

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Hiphopopotamos

Hiphopopotamos 20,865

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4 minutes ago, Vertigo said:

I would consider the USC game a bit of an outlier due to the amount of deep shots we took. I bet he ends up around 62-63% on the year. 

Sam was at 64% going into the USC game.

I'd rather look at yards per attempt than completion %, and Sam's ypa is at 7.3 this season (up from 7.0 last season).  His adjusted yards per attempt is at 7.6 (last year he was at 6.6).

Shanes a/ypa was at 6.6 last year after a 7.6 a/ypa as a freshman.

 

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elguapo

elguapo 4,583

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3 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

again, why? it's not as if ehlinger is some awesome qb tasking who's being stunted by poor offensive coaching, he's just not a great quarterback, period. we don't need to compare the talent around him or the coaches he has to any qbs from the past, because the bottom line is that he's just not that good. you could put ehlinger on the 2008 or 2009 teams and we'd have lost 4 games each year.

Hah!  Love how shaggy/surly spends so much energy and time bitching about how much our offensive coaching sucks, then try to act like it has no relevance on player development.  Like player development just happens in a vacuum with no influence from coaching.

 

Not saying Ehlinger is great, or even good, but it's hard to tell how good he could be when our offense makes 0 fucking sense and doesn't play to his strengths.  He also has Tim Beck as his QB coach who has a long and proven track record of being a fucking 0 when it comes to developing QBs.

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BabaYaga

BabaYaga 15,212

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4 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

I forgot how much they split time last year.  I know he started Maryland but I honesty forgot everything after that.  I don't really think you could call either of them the starting QB for 2017.  So Sam would basically only be a 1 year starter this offseason.  My point was mainly for anyone who can't envision Sam being QB1 in the future.  I'm not holding my breath that Rising wins whatever QB battle we have next spring.

Shane was injured in the MD game (first series if memory serves)?  So Sam was injected.  Did "ok", and broke our hearts on more than one occasion.  He was also then injured.  So we vacillated between who was the most healthy.  

This is not unlike what happened with Opie and Simms.  Opie was injured in the AR bowl game near the end (knee).  Simms came in and finished.  Then over the offseason while AW rehabbed, Simms spent the majority of the time with the 1st team, so he got the nod to start.  

Sam can make plays with his feet.  But that's also how he got hurt last year.  So careful what you wish for.  

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58 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Ash was 57.2% his freshman year and then 67.3% his sophomore year. As the saying goes, most players see their biggest improvement between years one and two. There are exceptions, but the fact that they're rare is why you remember them. Ash was 55-72 (76.4%) against our non-conference schedule his sophomore season.

Ehlinger was 57.5% his freshman year and is 57.6% so far in his sophomore year.

Colt McCoy, who some people will want to point out as improving most after year two, was 68.2% his true freshman season.

He also takes more chances than either of them (not always good decisions, to be sure). And what was Colt’s completion % his soph year, his worst year?

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hornian

hornian 5,205

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19 minutes ago, Vertigo said:

I would consider the USC game a bit of an outlier due to the amount of deep shots we took. I bet he ends up around 62-63% on the year. 

This. We were going deep multiple times a quarter (and sometimes multiple times a drive) against USC. I honestly can't remember a Texas team since Mackovic that did that. 

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31 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

So, I can get my Westlake Fanboi on with the best of Chaparrals, but Erhlinger is just okay.  If put into the right offense that takes advantage of this power running abilities and doesn't ask him to win the game with arm talent, he can succeed, assuming he's supported by this defense.  But there's nothing in his play to date that suggests he's gonna take us to the proven land. n

Which for you fools that refuse to listen is how he has the most value to us:  As a grind it out starter who can get us to 8-4, hopefully win a decent bowl, keep the recruiting mojo going and then turn the keys over to one of the young QBs on the roster.

I’m surprised so many think this is a probability and not a slight possibility. Most know I’m a Westlake grad. But I don’t care about that. For example, I really don’t like Hager. 

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elguapo

elguapo 4,583

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2 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

He also takes more chances than either of them (not always good decisions, to be sure). And what was Colt’s completion % his soph year, his worst year?

65%, accuracy was kinda Colt's thing.

He was also a turnover machine his redshirt Soph season, so much so that after a terrible game against Aggy in the season finale many were calling for Chiles to get a shot in 2008.

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Nivek

Nivek 16,861

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17 minutes ago, elguapo said:

65%, accuracy was kinda Colt's thing.

He was also a turnover machine his redshirt Soph season, so much so that after a terrible game against Aggy in the season finale many were calling for Chiles to get a shot in 2008.

Mostly from batted balls and going from an O-line that featured NFL talent to a bunch of choir boys that lost a 5 on 2 battle.   

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HtownHorn

HtownHorn 14,488

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39 minutes ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

Sam was at 64% going into the USC game.

I'd rather look at yards per attempt than completion %, and Sam's ypa is at 7.3 this season (up from 7.0 last season).  His adjusted yards per attempt is at 7.6 (last year he was at 6.6).

Shanes a/ypa was at 6.6 last year after a 7.6 a/ypa as a freshman.

 

Yep. Cardale Jones was at 60.9% in 2014, but his Y/A was 9.3 and his AY/A was 9.9.

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Helobious

Helobious 9,481

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Jesus Christ. Colt was miles better as a sophomore than Ehlinger. Not to mention Colt had a much better freshman year. Sure Colt had all those picks. Pretty much none of them were backbreaking.  Off the top of my head, I can think of at least 4 times that Ehlinger has turned the ball over when he had a chance to win the game on a final drive. I can think of maybe one time Colt did that his entire career (aggy cheapshot in ‘06). And keep in mind Ehlinger hasn’t even started a full year. The two players aren’t comparable. 

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elguapo

elguapo 4,583

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Jesus Christ. Colt was miles better as a sophomore than Ehlinger. Not to mention Colt had a much better freshman year. Sure Colt had all those picks. Pretty much none of them were backbreaking.  Off the top of my head, I can think of at least 4 times that Ehlinger has turned the ball over when he had a chance to win the game on a final drive. I can think of maybe one time Colt did that his entire career (aggy cheapshot in ‘06). And keep in mind Ehlinger hasn’t even started a full year. The two players aren’t comparable. 

People are comparing their career trajectories, as in Colt kinda sucked his Soph year and then turned into a fucking college qb ninja so maybe Sam can become serviceable until we can upgrade. No one is really trying to compare them as players but you’re an idiot who doesn’t read good so whatever.
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17 minutes ago, elguapo said:


People are comparing their career trajectories, as in Colt kinda sucked his Soph year and then turned into a fucking college qb ninja so maybe Sam can become serviceable until we can upgrade. No one is really trying to compare them as players but you’re an idiot who doesn’t read good so whatever.

What elguapo said but I don’t think people recall how down his year was / how much he regressed, and it had everything to do with protection. He had JC bail him out of at least the Nebraska and OSU games. He was 65% completion, by far his lowest (he was 77% in ‘08), threw for 3,300, 22/18, and had 7.8 and 6.9 YPA and AYPA. Sam can match those numbers this year as a true soph. 

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oSuJeff97

oSuJeff97 3,435

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1 hour ago, Katfid54 said:

A few years ago, Davis Webb got replaced by Mahomes.

Similar timeframe, Mason Rudolph replaced J.W. Walsh.

Etc.

 

Just FYI - Rudolph didn't replace J.W. Walsh, he replaced Daxx Garmin.  Gundy had been planning on redshirting Rudolph until Garmin was basically broken in half during the Texas game that year when we were in the midst of losing 5 straight games.

Gundy had no choice but to pull Rudolph's redshirt after that and he started the last three games that year at Baylor (L) and OU (W) and the bowl game (W).

 

 

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gmr548

gmr548 16,517

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There is a lot of truth in that considering performance...
I didn't really mean that as a defense of Sam. He was fine the other night but I think we've seen enough to know he isn't special and isn't leading this program to anything significant without a dominant defense and running game, neither of which exist. He's proven without a shadow of a doubt that he won't be the reason you win games, but he can sure be the reason you lose.

I meant it as an explanation of the improvement out of Ash and to say that we probably aren't going to see that kind of growth out of Sam. He is a more limited player and has... Questionable coaching and play calling, to put it gently. He will never be a top 25 QB in passing efficiency, partially out of his own limitations, partially because he is asked to do things he doesn't do well while often having his strengths hidden by the gameplan.

Also, shout out to Ash while we're on the topic. Underrated player around these parts.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

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Stunns38

Stunns38 3,357

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65%, accuracy was kinda Colt's thing.
He was also a turnover machine his redshirt Soph season, so much so that after a terrible game against Aggy in the season finale many were calling for Chiles to get a shot in 2008.


Colt lost the great 05 championship o-line his sophomore year. The o-line regressed big time that year. In comparison, The o-line seems to be much improved this year for Sam.
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Gene Parmesan

Gene Parmesan 3,993

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8 minutes ago, cafe society said:

This is our concern, Dude.gif

Exactly.  As the big12 has evolved with it's offenses one thing has been made incredibly apparent.  Speed kills.  It doesn't matter what your ranking was in high school if you can run, a great system will make you a superstar.  We have done a horrible job at showcasing speed.

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Bill Lumbergh

Bill Lumbergh 7,170

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1 minute ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Exactly.  As the big12 has evolved with it's offenses one thing has been made incredibly apparent.  Speed kills.  It doesn't matter what your ranking was in high school if you can run, a great system will make you a superstar.  We have done a horrible job at showcasing speed.

Duverney is pretty fucking fast, right?  I think we have more speed than we think, we're just not using it like tcu does so it's less obvious. 

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Gene Parmesan

Gene Parmesan 3,993

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5 minutes ago, Bill Lumbergh said:

Duverney is pretty fucking fast, right?  I think we have more speed than we think, we're just not using it like tcu does so it's less obvious. 

I believe he was the fastest player in his class.  At least track times.  That's my point though, you have to think to remember he's still on the team.  This isn't a new problem either.  This has been the case for some time now, and we've had some burners in here that we couldn't really figure out what to do with. 

Edited by Gene Parmesan
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RPM

RPM 26,229

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Posted

x-post from The Ticket thread:

Joel Klatt: Texas is a 9 or 10 win team if they can get some blocking up front. There are huge swaths of open area down the middle of the field for Texas' WRs. Ehlinger would be much better (stat wise) if they let him exploit that.

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Gene Parmesan

Gene Parmesan 3,993

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1 minute ago, RPM said:

x-post from The Ticket thread:

Joel Klatt: Texas is a 9 or 10 win team if they can get some blocking up front. There are huge swaths of open area down the middle of the field for Texas' WRs. Ehlinger would be much better (stat wise) if they let him exploit that.

Yeah he was pretty much begging for us to go over the middle before halftime, but we kept launching uncatchable deep balls down the side line.  It's there to exploit but some combination of our coaches/Sam isn't seeing it.  Not being able to exploit what a defense is giving you is going to cost us against well coached teams like TCU.  We can't break TCU like we did USC.

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 32,703

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1 minute ago, kevwun said:

I think we are probably not going to like what happens if they let Ehlinger start throwing to the middle of the field with regularity.

Yep, his slow processing and release will result in picks without question. But it's on the staff either to improve that or make the decision on cost-benefit of incorporating it into the offense. It's obviously in the scheme, it's not like Rising's throw I linked before was from some other system. Ehlinger just basically refuses to throw in the middle of the field underneath the safeties. If his guy hasn't cleared the last safety he's hesitant to throw. That might not be 100% accurate as we don't have all-22 film to dissect but that's sure what it seems like.

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