Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted
  On 12/12/2018 at 8:18 PM, chase25 said:

tenor.gif

Can you please post these facts you speak of?

Expand  

 

  On 12/12/2018 at 8:38 PM, chase25 said:

No, people like you just use revisionist history and the old "players of old are better than the players today" shtick.

I don't give a flying fuck what the rules were and I'm not using CMP%, passing yards, Y/A, or any other arbitrary metric. How about the simple fundamental goal of football which is to score TDs.

Through the first 45 games of Aikman's career: 39 passing TDs, 55 INTs

Through the first 45 games of Dak's career: 62 passing TDs, 24 INTs

I don't care what "get off my lawn", "these guys today couldn't do what they are doing 20 years ago" old man argument you use. That isn't even close. Aikman was along for the ride on Cowboys teams that were built on elite defense and hand the ball to Emmitt 25-30 times a game. Not to mention Aikman always rose to the occasion in the postseason. He was Eli Manning before Eli Manning.

The only reason Troy is in the HOF is because he was a tough SOB and those teams he had around him from 1992-1996 were damn good.

Expand  

bravo, dude.  bravo. 

Posted
  On 12/12/2018 at 9:47 PM, futureman said:

 

bravo, dude.  bravo. 

Expand  

Oh shit, sorry, I forgot that Mike White is the only QB better than Troy Aikman. Troy would be lucky to hold Mike's jock strap.

The point of the post was to show that comparing different eras is just as stupid as trying to compare HOF Player X to Player Y's not even 3 year career.

Posted
  On 12/12/2018 at 10:02 PM, chase25 said:

Oh shit, sorry, I forgot that Mike White is the only QB better than Troy Aikman. Troy would be lucky to hold Mike's jock strap.

The point of the post was to show that comparing different eras is just as stupid as trying to compare HOF Player X to Player Y's not even 3 year career.

Expand  

uh, and I was applauding your argument?  I’m on your side, bro.  aikman was not as good as dak and the stats prove it.  I’m agreeing with you. 

  • Like 1
Posted
  On 12/12/2018 at 9:01 PM, Mileslong said:

Yeah Troy the guy who got in the hall of fame and super bowl mvp just because he was a tough sob. Classic

Expand  

The point of the post went over your head but I digress (see response to futureman). Troy was a 7/10 QB that played like a 9 in the playoffs and the fact that he had what should be a HOF coach and played for a Cowboys organization that was still run the correct way is why he won 3 Super Bowls. It wasn't because he was throwing the ball all around the yard and carrying the Cowboy's to titles.

See C-Man's post about what I'm talking about. There were better "QBs" in his era that simply didn't have the teams that Troy had.

Posted

So Wentz might be done for the year. Foles steps in. Eagles now have the better QB in place to make a run, just like last year. And people still think we made a mistake not drafting that overrated media darling lmao. Front office can't be feeling too good about their injury prone QB at this point.

What happens if Foles yet again steps in and makes a run in Wentz's absence? 

  • Like 1
Posted (edited)
  On 12/12/2018 at 9:04 PM, C-Man said:

I agree with some of chase's points. While a sure-fire HOF'er in my estimation, Aikman wouldn't be the first QB I'd take if I'm hand-picking somebody to build my team around. Brett Favre, Jim Kelly, Steve Young, John Elway and Dan Marino were all better QBs than Aikman save for maybe the back-to-back championship years. They were all asked to do more than Troy. But Aikman was very, very good when he needed to be. Let's not forget he played behind the best line in football and had weapons such as Emmitt, Irvin and Novacek on offense.

Expand  

No, what you don't understand is that Troy never missed. His accuracy was as beautiful as watching Picasso take a brush across a canvas. Emmitt Smith didn't exist, that OLine was non existent, Michael Irvin was sub par at best, Novacek couldn't hold Geoff Swaim's jock strap, those Dallas defenses were cut through like swiss cheese, but thank god Troy Aikman was there to carry Dallas with that throwing arm that many call a rifle.

You nailed it, Troy raised his game in the post season, In Dallas' 3 Super Bowl runs he had 17 TDs and 4 INTs.

Edited by chase25
Posted
  On 12/12/2018 at 10:17 PM, Vic Mackey said:

So Wentz might be done for the year. Foles steps in. Eagles now have the better QB in place to make a run, just like last year. And people still think we made a mistake not drafting that overrated media darling lmao. Front office can't be feeling too good about their injury prone QB at this point.

What happens if Foles yet again steps in and makes a run in Wentz's absence? 

Expand  

I've never understood the media love fest for Carson either

  • Like 1
Posted
  On 12/12/2018 at 10:17 PM, Vic Mackey said:

So Wentz might be done for the year. Foles steps in. Eagles now have the better QB in place to make a run, just like last year. And people still think we made a mistake not drafting that overrated media darling lmao. Front office can't be feeling too good about their injury prone QB at this point.

What happens if Foles yet again steps in and makes a run in Wentz's absence? 

Expand  

Foles is a starting NFL QB. If they keep playing Wentz over him he needs to get out of Philly. 

Posted

what an interesting day, today i learned that players like troy aikman, roger staubach, james street, johnny unitas, bob griese etc were all average QB's because they didnt throw the ball all over the yard every game...

Posted (edited)
  On 12/12/2018 at 10:19 PM, chase25 said:

No, what you don't understand is that Troy never missed. His accuracy was as beautiful as watching Picasso take a brush across a canvas. Emmitt Smith didn't exist, that OLine was non existent, Michael Irvin was sub par at best, Novacek couldn't hold Geoff Swaim's jock strap, those Dallas defenses were cut through like swiss cheese, but thank god Troy Aikman was there to carry Dallas with that throwing arm that many call a rifle.

You nailed it, Troy raised his game in the post season, In Dallas' 3 Super Bowl runs he had 17 TDs and 4 INTs.

Expand  

You're closer to the truth than anybody. "Irving", as I like to call him, was a damned good receiver, however. Certainly not sub-par. He just had the it factor, and Troy was one of the most accurate passers ever. Nobody threw a tighter spiral. Novacek, Irvin and Harper had great hands, and Aikman always put the ball right on the money. They always caught it. At this point in his career, Aikman was a little better than Dak, but not by much.

 

In his rookie season, I thought Dak was very accurate. There are some questions about this season, although a couple of his long balls that missed might have been the receiver's fault. What QB doesn't miss on long balls? Aikman maybe? It's a pretty good bet that Dak needs a really good QB coach. And not having that all-star OLiine has him a little out of his rhythm.

 

As has been pointed out, it was Aikman's fourth season when he won a SB. That was a young team, but by the time they clinched the Division, then Conference, they coulda beat anybody. And they proved it. Maybe this year's team will gel at just the right time. We'll know more on Sunday. Would love to see that offense put together a string of sustained drives while Luck chills on the bench.

Edited by Irish Wrist Watch
  • Like 1
Posted
  On 12/12/2018 at 11:02 PM, Mileslong said:

what an interesting day, today i learned that players like troy aikman, roger staubach, james street, johnny unitas, bob griese etc were all average QB's because they didnt throw the ball all over the yard every game...

Expand  

Everything just goes over your head, it is impossible to even have a discussion with you. It is called relating a QB to what their counter parts in their era were doing to what they were doing.

No way Mileslong, I had no idea that (insert HOF QB here)'s career body of work is better than Dak Prescott's not even 3 year career. Wow, mind blown, had no idea.

I never thought someone would say something dumb enough that it would have me trying to bring down Aikman. The guys you mentioned put up numbers that were at the top if not the best in the league at their time. Troy did not. I don't know why you threw James in there, James ran the wishbone, you can't even compare that to anything or really even call that playing QB. James was just a phenomenal football player period, guy would have run over his own mother to win.

I know you don't like this because it one of those arbitrary statistics but Dak is completing 66% of his passes which is good for this era. So sorry, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Troy was not "infinitely" more accurate than Dak. Obviously every QB's numbers from the past would look better if they played today given that you can hardly hit the QB, you can't hand check receivers until the ball is in the air, receivers don't have to worry about getting their head taken off over the middle, etc...

My point was not to say Dak is better than Troy. My point is don't re-write history if you are going to even try and compare them which is stupid to begin with. Don't try and compare Troy's 11 year HOF career to Dak's first 2 years and 13 games in the league which is what you attempted to do. Troy struggled to hit the bright side of a barn (albeit on some bad teams) his first 3 years in the league.

Posted

Aikman's accuracy and timing were off the charts amazing.

I recently watched the 92 and 93 NFC championship games against Frisco, and it's incredible how often Irvin and Harper would make a cut and by the time they've looked back the ball's hitting their hands.  Irvin has said he could've run his routes blindfolded, raised his arms, and the ball would've hit him in the hands.

And I've never seen a more beautiful spiral than Aikman threw.

Not sure how comparisons between Dak and Aikman made it into this discussion, but those need to wait until Dak's had a few more  years in the league and hopefully a ring or two.  

Dak has the potential to be great.  I'm pulling for that to happen.

 

 

  • Like 3
Posted (edited)

What are the odds that this is Sean Lee's last season as a Cowboy? I love the guy but it is hard to keep taking that cap hit for a guy who can't stay healthy. Could move that money elsewhere on the defensive side.

Edited by chase25
Posted
  On 12/13/2018 at 12:27 AM, chase25 said:
Everything just goes over your head, it is impossible to even have a discussion with you. It is called relating a QB to what their counter parts in their era were doing to what they were doing.
No way Mileslong, I had no idea that (insert HOF QB here)'s career body of work is better than Dak Prescott's not even 3 year career. Wow, mind blown, had no idea.
I never thought someone would say something dumb enough that it would have me trying to bring down Aikman. The guys you mentioned put up numbers that were at the top if not the best in the league at their time. Troy did not. I don't know why you threw James in there, James ran the wishbone, you can't even compare that to anything or really even call that playing QB. James was just a phenomenal football player period, guy would have run over his own mother to win.
I know you don't like this because it one of those arbitrary statistics but Dak is completing 66% of his passes which is good for this era. So sorry, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Troy was not "infinitely" more accurate than Dak. Obviously every QB's numbers from the past would look better if they played today given that you can hardly hit the QB, you can't hand check receivers until the ball is in the air, receivers don't have to worry about getting their head taken off over the middle, etc...
My point was not to say Dak is better than Troy. My point is don't re-write history if you are going to even try and compare them which is stupid to begin with. Don't try and compare Troy's 11 year HOF career to Dak's first 2 years and 13 games in the league which is what you attempted to do. Troy struggled to hit the bright side of a barn (albeit on some bad teams) his first 3 years in the league.

Dude YOU are the one saying Aikman was just an average QB. That’s the main thing I took offense with and laughing at my point that he was way more accurate than Dak. How you can watch them play and not see that is beyond me.
Posted
  On 12/12/2018 at 10:17 PM, Vic Mackey said:

So Wentz might be done for the year. Foles steps in. Eagles now have the better QB in place to make a run, just like last year. And people still think we made a mistake not drafting that overrated media darling lmao. Front office can't be feeling too good about their injury prone QB at this point.

What happens if Foles yet again steps in and makes a run in Wentz's absence? 

Expand  

I just don't think the Eagles are about to make a run, but I do agree with you on Wentz 

Posted
  On 12/12/2018 at 11:02 PM, Mileslong said:

what an interesting day, today i learned that players like troy aikman, roger staubach, james street, johnny unitas, bob griese etc were all average QB's because they didnt throw the ball all over the yard every game...

Expand  

Do you even fantasy football, bro?

  • Like 1
Posted
  On 12/12/2018 at 10:20 PM, futureman said:

troy aikman was an average quarterback.  meaty part of the curve.  success the result of team around him. 

Expand  

Good thing he had all those high end lineman from Emporia St, Florida A&M, etc.    nothing like having the highest quality 

Posted
  On 12/13/2018 at 12:36 AM, Augustus said:

Aikman's accuracy and timing were off the charts amazing.

I recently watched the 92 and 93 NFC championship games against Frisco, and it's incredible how often Irvin and Harper would make a cut and by the time they've looked back the ball's hitting their hands.  Irvin has said he could've run his routes blindfolded, raised his arms, and the ball would've hit him in the hands.

And I've never seen a more beautiful spiral than Aikman threw.

Expand  

One thing I remember about Aikman was how spoiled I got re: the deep ball. 

If Irvin or Harper was running the fly route and you saw Aikman rock back in a clean pocket to let it fly deep, it's like you were already celebrating before the ball left his hand. 

Posted
  On 12/13/2018 at 12:44 AM, chase25 said:

What are the odds that this is Sean Lee's last season as a Cowboy? I love the guy but it is hard to keep taking that cap hit for a guy who can't stay healthy. Could move that money elsewhere on the defensive side.

Expand  

His contract is very friendly for the Cowboys because much of it is built on availability and performance metrics 

Posted
  On 12/12/2018 at 10:20 PM, chase25 said:
I've never understood the media love fest for Carson either
Me either. People crowned him as the next coming before he even stepped on an NFL QB. I'll take Dak any day of the week. Hell I'll take Baker over Wentz

Any way, fuck the Eagles.
Posted

Im not getting into all that stupid shit said earlier....only thing im saying anyone that questions aikmans accuracy is the one with revisionist history...every teammate,announcer and opposing player knew about aikmans accuracy

Posted

91 thru 96 seasons aikmans lowest completion % was 63.7% ....go look at elways,favres,youngs and marinos if you think thats bad for the era

Then checkout favres lowest ints for a season for that era before rule changes

Posted
  On 12/12/2018 at 8:53 PM, chase25 said:
No, you take it with a grain of salt, the 1989 Dallas team was one of the worst football teams I have ever seen take a football field. That being said don't shit in my yard and tell me it is a chocolate cupcake. Don't tell me Troy Aikman was Chris Kyle with a football when that couldn't be further from the truth.
Only an idiot who didn't watch the game watched those 90's Cowboys teams an went "wow, Troy is just dicing defenses up, slinging the Cowboys to wins". Troy was Eli Manning. Pedestrian numbers and a guy who elevated his game when it mattered.
EDIT: And no I'm not saying that Dak is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I just laugh at the revisionist history that is used to discuss players who used to play and how all their deficiencies and ill's are forgotten.


This may be the dumbest post of this or TOS....ever.
  • Like 5
Posted
  On 12/13/2018 at 2:02 AM, Post Oak said:

Any The Athletic bros got this article about LVE

https://theathletic.com/706119/2018/12/12/inside-the-cowboys-master-plan-to-draft-leighton-vander-esch/

Pleaseandthankyou

Expand  
  Reveal hidden contents

 

  • Like 1
Posted (edited)
  On 12/12/2018 at 10:17 PM, Vic Mackey said:

So Wentz might be done for the year. Foles steps in. Eagles now have the better QB in place to make a run, just like last year. And people still think we made a mistake not drafting that overrated media darling lmao. Front office can't be feeling too good about their injury prone QB at this point.

What happens if Foles yet again steps in and makes a run in Wentz's absence? 

Expand  

So what are the Eagles options? If Foles finishes the season in style, could they join in the bidding war for him with a promise to trade Wentz. Or is Wentz seen as having a lot more upside, even if Foles wins out in 2018? Would Foles trust them? Seems we need to get Dak under contract before Foles signs with someone else. If Dak wants too much, we go after the ex-Chap?

Edited by Irish Wrist Watch
Posted
  On 12/13/2018 at 5:38 AM, Irish Wrist Watch said:

So what are the Eagles options? If Foles finishes the season in style, could they join in the bidding war for him with a promise to trade Wentz. Or is Wentz seen as having a lot more upside, even if Foles wins out in 2018? Would Foles trust them? Seems we need to get Dak under contract before Foles signs with someone else. If Dak wants too much, we go after the ex-Chap?

Expand  

Wentz is their QB of the present and future, regardless.  Not only is he a better player but still should be cheaper.  Foles had a great playoff run but looked mediocre at best this year.  Someone will probably pay him as a starting QB, but really he’s probably better suited as a high grade backup.

As far as this year, they need to run the table and get some help... and no, we’re not going to sign foles unless Dak has something catastrophic happen.

  • Like 1
Posted

So now people are saying Aikman was average at best?  He was only good because he had Emmitt to hand to?

How many times have we heard that Emmitt was not that great, and he only got all those yards because of the OL?

An OL that consisted of guys from power houses such as Florida A&M, Emporia State, Central State, Sacramento State, and Hawaii.

  • Like 1
Posted

At Cowboys training camp in Austin in 89 I asked one of the free agent WRs who was better - Walsh or Aikman - and he immediately laughed and said "who do you think!" and then he said Aikman throws perfect strike fastballs like a pitcher.

You know, he never said Aikman was better I just assumed it. 

Aikman got rid of Alvin Harper because he was an unreliable route runner.

In 95 he really only had 1 wide receiver.  And no coach.

Posted
  On 12/13/2018 at 11:25 AM, ADHD said:

At Cowboys training camp in Austin in 89 I asked one of the free agent WRs who was better - Walsh or Aikman - and he immediately laughed and said "who do you think!" and then he said Aikman throws perfect strike fastballs like a pitcher.

You know, he never said Aikman was better I just assumed it. 

Aikman got rid of Alvin Harper because he was an unreliable route runner.

In 95 he really only had 1 wide receiver.  And no coach.

Expand  

Aikman lost every game he started in '89.

Walsh started far fewer games and actually won one in '89.


It was obvious that Aikman was the bigger guy with a stronger arm, but he sucked a lot of ass in '89. He couldn't take his eyes off his primary WR even to move out of the way of a blitzer coming right at him. Eventually Norv Turner created an offense that perfectly fit with Aikman's strengths.

Posted
  On 12/13/2018 at 10:08 AM, ADHD said:

Go watch Aikman throw on YouTube . He was the fucking prototype. He & Elway.

Expand  

 

  On 12/13/2018 at 10:10 AM, ADHD said:

^ and yes that seems racist. 

Expand  

 

  On 12/13/2018 at 11:25 AM, ADHD said:

At Cowboys training camp in Austin in 89 I asked one of the free agent WRs who was better - Walsh or Aikman - and he immediately laughed and said "who do you think!" and then he said Aikman throws perfect strike fastballs like a pitcher.

You know, he never said Aikman was better I just assumed it. 

Aikman got rid of Alvin Harper because he was an unreliable route runner.

In 95 he really only had 1 wide receiver.  And no coach.

Expand  

 

  On 12/13/2018 at 11:27 AM, ADHD said:

And he thought Roy Williams, as a Cowboy, was shit.

Expand  

Username checks out

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



×
×
  • Create New...