Dallas Cowboys 2018 Regular Season Thread

[EvilCaseMcCoy 691]

58 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Did you skip over the first half of the first sentence?  Do you want to list me all the shitty players that have been MVP in an effort to claim that spares accomplish that as well.

I did.  My main point is, Dak needs to run more.  The zone read will help alleviate the stress on the run and pass game and he's more than capable of running it effectively. 

[C-Man 27041]

1 hour ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Did you skip over the first half of the first sentence?  Do you want to list me all the shitty players that have been MVP in an effort to claim that spares accomplish that as well.

Yeah, it's like I'm taking crazy pills here.

[Vic Mackey 46932]

The we don't run zone read more with Dak is maddening. Teams can't stop it. Even if they know it's coming. Yet we rarely see it.

[Gene Parmesan 3993]

3 minutes ago, EvilCaseMcCoy said:

I did.  My main point is, Dak needs to run more.  The zone read will help alleviate the stress on the run and pass game and he's more than capable of running it effectively. 

Agree with that for sure.  I don't know if he can take the punishment of Cam, but he simply can't cut it as a passer without the defense accounting for his legs.

[FizzleFish 137]

1 hour ago, EvilCaseMcCoy said:

Rex Grossman has taken a team to the super bowl.  Not sure that anoints Cam to legend status.  Especially because he got spanked in that game and didn't log a single TD.

Dak was rookie of the year, just like Cam.  Cam's obviously had more time in the league, but Dak has the ability to be just as good.  While Cam may be bigger stronger faster, Dak has a higher completion percentage so I'd argue he's more accurate. 

Cam regressed after his rookie season too.  They brought in a new offensive coaching staff to simplify the offense, complete with zone reads and uptempo.

https://www.catscratchreader.com/2013/6/13/4426096/carolina-panthers-cam-newton-hopeful-simplified-offense-leads-to-more-success

Where is the Dak friendly offense we were told about?

 

 

I haven’t given this much thought, but referring to the dak friendly offense reminds me of 2015. How many qbs did we run thru that year when romo went down? Every one looked like garbage. IDK if I’m ready to dump dak without seeing him operate under a different offensive staff.  This passing attack r minds me of the 2015 frustrations.

[Mileslong 4712]

1 hour ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Agree with that for sure.  I don't know if he can take the punishment of Cam, but he simply can't cut it as a passer without the defense accounting for his legs.

he can absolutely take the punishment as well as Cam.  Cam is 6'-5" 250 and Dak is 6'-2" 235.  just as sturdy

[DougO 5239]

5 hours ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Cam has been league MVP and taken a team to the Superbowl.  That's pretty much every QBs ceiling besides the few that win one on top of that.  I get it if you don't think he's a top 5 QB because there are some elite guys at the top, but everyone after top 5 aren't just lumped together as practically the same guy.  There are a whole lot of degrees in there. 

The comparison on point except that Cam is better at pretty much every metric.  Bigger, stronger, faster, more accurate, and better decision making.

Eight seasons so far, and Cam has completed 58% of his passes. That's atrocious in today's NFL. He's only barely touched 60% twice in his career prior to this season. His career QB rating is backup level, and trending in the wrong direction. If you actually watch him play you see him routinely miss wide open receivers by a mile. His last three seasons he has averaged UNDER 7 yards per attempt, which is really bad.  He has finished a season with a QB rating above 90 only once in his career.

Those are a lot of metrics that suck for a great QB. He peaked years ago and has been trending in the wrong direction.

[Vic Mackey 46932]

Dak could have easily made the Super Bowl if he had a coaching staff worth a damn or even a defense with a pulse. Not a great defense but one better than the junk we had in 2016. Dak's rookie year was one we have never really seen from a rookie QB in terms of how efficient he was. That playoff game he had against GB was fucking great. Too bad the defense gave him zero help and Rodgers was on the other side. We had a better chance to make it to the Super Bowl that season than any other season this century. 

Young QBs like Dak need coaching to develop and grow, especially after the league gets a year of tape to study. They are going to make adjustments and then it is up to our coaches to adjust with Dak. But we have none of that. We are fucking ruining him.

[EvilCaseMcCoy 691]

13 hours ago, DougO said:

Those are a lot of metrics that suck for a great QB. He peaked years ago and has been trending in the wrong direction.

See this is where I disagree.  Cam may not be an elite passer, but that doesnt mean hes not an elite QB.  His power running game elevates him to the next level. 

This is a style they should be trying to emmulate with Dak. When they ran the QB sneak with Dak last week, he burst out of a cannon.  I cant think of any current QB who can run with that much power besides Cam.  

The problem is, these coaches believe that Dak can become an elite passer.  Either that or they are too inept to understand how to incorporate QB rpo's consistently.  By doing so they are completely ignoring the abilities that could elevate Dak. 

 

[txbroadcaster 110]

19 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Hurns is blowing up the Cowboys coaching staff and play calling.  The receivers have taken it very personally about criticism coming their way and it's understandable and nobody likes to be the punching bag.  

Here's the tough thing.  Statistically there is data out they don't win enough in single coverage, but as most issues, there isn't a silver bullet which explains all.  

Our play calling is poor and frankly, we're running an old system without a ton of creativity which is relying on less talented players to try and outplay more talented guys.  Hurns was the most vocal this week about how it's not one thing, but Beasley has chirped about it.  Feels like Garrett is starting to lose this locker room and when that happens, you can either get rid of all the players or get rid of coaches.  As Fisher admits....

Unfortunately, will this fix the organization and culture?  Absolutely not, it's a Jerrah problem.  However, Jason Garrett is the 2nd longest tenured coach in Cowboys history.  He has 1 playoff win.  

 

While I am not big on our OC...that was on Dak...The OC is not guaranteed to know what D they will be in. Hurns even points out that was the ONLY time they saw that look. So Dak needs to be able to see they are in and that the play called will not work and change it.

[DougO 5239]

They paid a decent chunk of money to Hurns to come in and be their number one. He's hardly seen on the field. It's a failure or either player evaluation, failure of coaching or failure of scheming. Either way, it wasn't the most productive offseason in Cowboys history.

[Dr Fear 1265]

3 minutes ago, DougO said:

They paid a decent chunk of money to Hurns to come in and be their number one. He's hardly seen on the field. It's a failure or either player evaluation, failure of coaching or failure of scheming. Either way, it wasn't the most productive offseason in Cowboys history.

With signing bonus he got $5 million this year. In 2019 he has a non-guaranteed $4 million base salary with a $1 million roster bonus.  Dead cap if he is released after this season is $1.25 million. Hurns, Cole, Terrance and Tavon all make about the same. Also, Hurns made $9 million in 2016 and $7 million in 2017 from the Jags.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/allen-hurns-14929/

[DougO 5239]

Right, he got $6 mil. Not a great value for a guy on a milk carton. At least they didn't give him guaranteed money twice, like they did Deonte. LOL

[SurlyBDR 22644]

Guys, calm down! We've got the right kind of guys on the team. Now, if we could only get the right kind of coaches.

 

[Dr Fear 1265]

Just now, SurlyBDR said:

Guys, calm down! We've got the right kind of guys on the team. Now, if we could only get the right kind of coaches.

 

He is consistent, if nothing else.

[EvilCaseMcCoy 691]

57 minutes ago, Dr Fear said:

He is consistent, if nothing else.

8-8

[DougO 5239]

South of .500 right now, making this a must win at home.

The Jags will be without their left tackle, who was a recent replacement for their original starter for the season. Their starting left guard is also out. Former Cowboy Jeremy Parnell, the starter on the opposite side, has been limited in practice this week. Their starting center has not practiced as of Wednesday.

Fournette is out. Corey Grant, their third RB after Fournette and Yeldon, is out, and they're scraping for backup help. Jamal Charles was signed this week. Interesting note, the Jags just signed Bo Scarborough to their PS. They promoted an RB off the PS to fill in as a reserve.

Defensively, DJ Hayden is still out. Tyler Patmon has been his replacement as the slot corner.

Lots of former Cowboys ties in this one.

The Cowboys get David Irving back this week.

The Cowboys have a definite health advantage, despite being without Lee, as VE has filled in very well. If they can't win this one it's not a good sign for the rest of the season.

Edited October 11, 2018 by DougO

[KeysPhoneWallet 807]

I think the Houston game closed the door on Garrett. Time to move on to the next guy. Maybe we can get bellicheck.

[Irish Wrist Watch 1349]

Dak isn't the problem. Two years ago, he must have run the ball five times a game, if not more. And he was damn good at it. It will open up the offense. The problem is fucking Linehan and his worthless coach. After losing to Houston, I think they're finally beginning to realize that they had better get their fucking acts together. There's gonna be a lot more Dak this Sunday.

[In10se 175]

14 hours ago, EvilCaseMcCoy said:

See this is where I disagree.  Cam may not be an elite passer, but that doesnt mean hes not an elite QB.  His power running game elevates him to the next level. 

This is a style they should be trying to emmulate with Dak. When they ran the QB sneak with Dak last week, he burst out of a cannon.  I cant think of any current QB who can run with that much power besides Cam.  

The problem is, these coaches believe that Dak can become an elite passer.  Either that or they are too inept to understand how to incorporate QB rpo's consistently.  By doing so they are completely ignoring the abilities that could elevate Dak. 

 

They incorporated them a ton in his rookie year. Even during this past game on the lone drive they scored a TD they utilized a lot of misdirection and fakes to make the defense have to worry about overpursuing and it opened things up enough for them to get in the end zone. Dak even looked a whole lot more comfortable running that style of offense and was sharp on that one drive. 

Then they inexplicably abandoned the whole thing the rest of the game and went back to their simple curl routes and outs and predictable play calling patterns. 

Dak has shown he's a beast in the QB running game and he's great at executing fakes and misdirection in the plays, yet this staff is too stupid to base the offense around what he does at an elite level. It's like Garrett saw Aikman dominate in a style of drop back offense and believes that's the only way to win at QB even though 20 years of post Aikman data and even Aikman himself say otherwise. 

 

Edited October 12, 2018 by In10se

[Trey3216 15325]

11 hours ago, DougO said:

Right, he got $6 mil. Not a great value for a guy on a milk carton. At least they didn't give him guaranteed money twice, like they did Deonte. LOL

At least Deonte actually does run some decent routes and catches the ball well with his hands.   

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

38 minutes ago, KeysPhoneWallet said:

I think the Houston game closed the door on Garrett. Time to move on to the next guy. Maybe we can get bellicheck.

Amanda?  Wrong sport..... 

It's feeling like a 5-11 season...... Philly is doing what a good team does to a shitty Giants team.  Destroying them, at their place.  Philly's not what they were last year but they're still way better than we are....

 

[futureman 22414]

On 10/10/2018 at 2:51 PM, Vic Mackey said:

Dak and these WRs are not great by any means but they are not as bad as this. Look at Alex Smith. He went from a great situation in KC. Now look at him with Gruden and the Skins. Coaching and scheme matters. 

sorry pal but dak is that bad.  he was fine his rookie year before defenses had him figured out.  remember when RG3 was trying on gold jackets his rookie year?  dak is a below-average quarterback whom the league has figured out.  he is now no better than an anchor weighing us down.  quit making excuses for him.  he’s an underwhelming, untalented, overhyped JAG.   

and what the fuck point are you even trying to make with alex smith?  he’s had one game this season where he didn’t play well. 

[EvilCaseMcCoy 691]

10 hours ago, futureman said:

sorry pal but dak is that bad.  he was fine his rookie year before defenses had him figured out.  remember when RG3 was trying on gold jackets his rookie year?  dak is a below-average quarterback whom the league has figured out.  he is now no better than an anchor weighing us down.  quit making excuses for him.  he’s an underwhelming, untalented, overhyped JAG.   

and what the fuck point are you even trying to make with alex smith?  he’s had one game this season where he didn’t play well. 

RG3 regressed because he couldn't handle the workload as a runner and kept getting injured.  It's what I fear could happen to Watson, especially after watching him late last week.  Their frames just don't have what it takes to withstand those hits repeatedly.  Dak, on the other hand, looks stout and is punishing as a runner.

Alex Smith was arguably a bust until he teamed up with Harbaugh.  That's where scheme comes into play.  He had like 5 different offensive coordinators in his first 5 years.  People were ready to give up on him, but once a coach came in that fit a scheme to his skillset he progressed.  Dak may never be elite, but I don't believe he's been given a fair shake to prove what he can be. 

[futureman 22414]

8 minutes ago, EvilCaseMcCoy said:

RG3 regressed because he couldn't handle the workload as a runner and kept getting injured.  It's what I fear could happen to Watson, especially after watching him late last week.  Their frames just don't have what it takes to withstand those hits repeatedly.  Dak, on the other hand, looks stout and is punishing as a runner.

Alex Smith was arguably a bust until he teamed up with Harbaugh.  That's where scheme comes into play.  He had like 5 different offensive coordinators in his first 5 years.  People were ready to give up on him, but once a coach came in that fit a scheme to his skillset he progressed.  Dak may never be elite, but I don't believe he's been given a fair shake to prove what he can be. 

RG3 regressed because he was an overrated sham product of the the veer-and-shoot who was figured out by NFL coordinators in under a year.  Dak is worse than that.  Dak is a blue collar, inspirational, hard working teammate and friend.  he is a below average quarterback incapable of becoming an elite or even average NFL starter.  

Dak apologists will just keep apologizing until his ass is out of Dallas within a year. 

[EvilCaseMcCoy 691]

33 minutes ago, futureman said:

RG3 regressed because he was an overrated sham product of the the veer-and-shoot who was figured out by NFL coordinators in under a year.  Dak is worse than that.  Dak is a blue collar, inspirational, hard working teammate and friend.  he is a below average quarterback incapable of becoming an elite or even average NFL starter.  

Dak apologists will just keep apologizing until his ass is out of Dallas within a year. 

I'll reserve judgement

[Trey3216 15325]

I'm wondering if we'll even get 200 yards of offense Sunday against JAX.  

[Vic Mackey 46932]

RG3 regressed because he was an overrated sham product of the the veer-and-shoot who was figured out by NFL coordinators in under a year.  Dak is worse than that.  Dak is a blue collar, inspirational, hard working teammate and friend.  he is a below average quarterback incapable of becoming an elite or even average NFL starter.  
Dak apologists will just keep apologizing until his ass is out of Dallas within a year. 

So pretty much like the Romo apologists huh?

[DougO 5239]

13 hours ago, KeysPhoneWallet said:

I think the Houston game closed the door on Garrett. Time to move on to the next guy. Maybe we can get bellicheck.

Jerry doesn't like to admit mistakes, and he's dug in deep with Garrett. I think he'll scapegoat the OC, which should have happened last year. Garrett gets one more shot with a new offensive guy.

[futureman 22414]

1 hour ago, Vic Mackey said:

So pretty much like the Romo apologists huh?

if you think dak is on romo’s level as a football player you really need to tuck your sack back and become a soccer fan. 

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

21 minutes ago, DougO said:

Jerry doesn't like to admit mistakes, and he's dug in deep with Garrett. I think he'll scapegoat the OC, which should have happened last year. Garrett gets one more shot with a new offensive guy.

As mentioned...... Again, this is a Jerrah Jones problem.  Everything for the last 25 years is a Jerrah issue.  Stop giving this cat your money.

 

[EvilCaseMcCoy 691]

23 minutes ago, DougO said:

Jerry doesn't like to admit mistakes, and he's dug in deep with Garrett. I think he'll scapegoat the OC, which should have happened last year. Garrett gets one more shot with a new offensive guy.

This sounds about right.  

[Tired Horn 734]

2 hours ago, DougO said:

Jerry doesn't like to admit mistakes, and he's dug in deep with Garrett. I think he'll scapegoat the OC, which should have happened last year. Garrett gets one more shot with a new offensive guy.

I'll second that.

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

Good news?

[DougO 5239]

Another key injury issue for the jags. Cold comment by Rotoworld.

 

Jalen Ramsey (knee) is questionable for Week 6 against the Cowboys.

Ramsey was added to the injury report on Thursday after apparently twisting his knee. The Jaguars probably don't need him against Dallas' receivers.

[Vic Mackey 46932]

5 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

As mentioned...... Again, this is a Jerrah Jones problem.  Everything for the last 25 years is a Jerrah issue.  Stop giving this cat your money.

 

Fuck off Jerry.

[futureman 22414]

jags signed ereck flowers.  should help our pass rush. 

[Wishbone 4731]

On 10/11/2018 at 11:01 AM, SurlyBDR said:

Guys, calm down! We've got the right kind of guys on the team. Now, if we could only get the right kind of coaches.

 

Says the wrong guy on that team.

[EvilCaseMcCoy 691]

1 hour ago, futureman said:

jags signed ereck flowers.  should help our pass rush. 

Is chaz green still available?

[futureman 22414]

19 minutes ago, EvilCaseMcCoy said:

Is chaz green still available?

la’el collins goes down with an injury.  gun to your head, are you starting chaz green or ereck flowers at right tackle ?

[DougO 5239]

I would put Tavon Austin at right tackle before I would ever suit up Chaz Green again.

And probably would have better results.

[Vic Mackey 46932]

I'd just roll with 4 OL if you made me choose between Flowers and Green. Let one of our spare TEs play OL even

[futureman 22414]

9 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

I'd just roll with 4 OL if you made me choose between Flowers and Green. Let one of our spare TEs play OL even

I seriously wonder if geoff swaim could be a better pass-blocking RT than ereck flowers... 

[Vic Mackey 46932]

[futureman 22414]

Lol Gruden.  he could go 0-32 his first two years.  he ain’t goin no place.  

[EvilCaseMcCoy 691]

12 hours ago, futureman said:

la’el collins goes down with an injury.  gun to your head, are you starting chaz green or ereck flowers at right tackle ?

Can't I just let the gun do it's job

[futureman 22414]

1 hour ago, EvilCaseMcCoy said:

Can't I just let the gun do it's job

ah yes, option three.  forgot about that one.  you win.  

[Drew 2331]

Cowboys will win Sunday.  They're alternating wins and losses and for some reason seem to play better at home.

 

Yes I've been drinking.

[Vic Mackey 46932]

Jags don't scare me. We'll probably win.

[Guest]

On 10/12/2018 at 9:24 AM, Vic Mackey said:

On 10/12/2018 at 8:42 AM, futureman said:

RG3 regressed because he was an overrated sham product of the the veer-and-shoot who was figured out by NFL coordinators in under a year.  Dak is worse than that.  Dak is a blue collar, inspirational, hard working teammate and friend.  he is a below average quarterback incapable of becoming an elite or even average NFL starter.  
Dak apologists will just keep apologizing until his ass is out of Dallas within a year. 

Read more  

So pretty much like the Romo apologists huh?

Romo was always a bottom tier Top 10 QB. He was a good QB, and sometimes great with the right personnel. He had some terrible play at terrible times, but his lack of playoff wins isn’t really on him, Seattle excluded. 

Futureman is exactly right on Dak. We caught lightning in a bottle in his rookie year. Then defenses figured him out, and last year, Zeke missed 6 games and Witten and Dez got a year older. 13-3 to 9-7. Now with those guys gone and replaced with spare parts, and a banged up line, and no change in scheme except we’re inexplicably not running Dak as much, we are destined for 5-11, unless Linehan can pull something out of his ass. And he can, but it won’t get us beyond 8-8. 

The difference between the two is Romo could will an inferior team (with a much inferior D to what Dak has now) to 8-8 or 9-7. Dak has no such ability and in fact is a bottom quartile QB in the best scheme. As it stands now, he’s about the worst NFL starter.