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Herman vs. Strong

bschoolprof

By bschoolprof
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MaybeACoordinator

MaybeACoordinator 8349

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He'll be here through next year for financial reasons and appearance's sake unless we go 0-11 or something comes out of the tOSU mess to bite his ass. Yeah "We're Texas!" and shit but we won't be throwing $15m out the window and we don't want to be the school that doesn't give coaches even a ghost of a chance to stamp a program with their imprint. 

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31495

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1 hour ago, bschoolprof said:

There were a few posters on the shag that were very worried about this - most of them were Charlie apologists though , so no one really paid much attention.  I remember cdt23 being really down on Herman and the fact he lost to SMU and Navy.  

I hung on to hope with Charlie for a bit too long.  And that has a big influence on how I feel about Herman.  I am immediately skeptical of really aberrant things, like matching opening losses in consecutive years, with many of the same problems in both losses.

I do think Strong left the program in a better place than he found it.  Recruiting was at least somewhat revitalized and some, if not all, of the entitlement was on the way out.

But mostly, I am kind of "anti-hype."  I am immediately suspicious of the flavor of the month.  Charlie objectively had more skins on the wall than Herman, and over a longer period of time, and yet was a dismal failure.  It was pretty easy to "poke holes" in Herman's resume in comparison to Strong's, for the reasons you mention and others.

So, I didn't buy the hype surrounding Herman.  I don't find him to be that "unlikeable," really, but the largely unfounded arrogance kind of amuses me.  Like a silly, aggro puppy or something.  But I also realize it may be the tip of something darker that inhibits his coaching ability.  He was more or less behind the 8 ball from jump for me.  But, it seemed like many of the ways he was deploying resources (weight room, social media, etc.) were a good sign.  I was a bit wait-and-see on Beck, but I am convinced that that was a bad hire, along with some other comfort-type hires (Warehime, Mehringer).  The Terrapin Debacle has me very "shook," to say the least.

Most of these are elaborations on your original points (good post by the way), but I felt the need to expose my colon.  Also, I am weirdly bipolar as far as optimism and pessimism go.  I tend toward pessimism, but have found over a lifetime that it tends not to be particularly productve, so I often force myself into optimism, or at least, "you don't know how this is going to come out."  So I guess I should adopt that attitude here.

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GRHorn

GRHorn 105

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7 minutes ago, 54_Strat said:

Strong demoted his OC after a poor showing one game into the second season. Herman will stick with Beck until the offseason. 

In fairness, the offense Saturday looked like the ‘99 Rams compared to Swoopes and company in South Bend. 

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Treefidy

Treefidy 1468

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6 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

No shit? Yeah, no one is saying otherwise. There are zero people on this board predicting a firing after this season. Zero. 

I'm saying otherwise.  I don't think it will happen because last year is a good example.   We are more experienced than last year.  We lost some big pieces on D but we have talent.  We will most likely repeat 6-6 or maybe 5-7 or even 7-5.  

But if we win less than 4 games that means they quit, he lost the locker room and he will be shown the door because things are that toxic.  

Or scandal.  There's a couple ways he doesn't see year 3

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jinx

jinx 2635

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16 minutes ago, Landomatic said:

Holy shit we’ve hit aggy levels of retardation.

I feel like I've taken eight years of crazy pills.  I have little control over my feelings of the Texas Football team anymore (mostly disgust and rage).  Words cannot express how tired I am of watching shit football.  

Maybe that is what happened to aggy 

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MaybeACoordinator

MaybeACoordinator 8349

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18 minutes ago, Treefidy said:

 

 

same song, second verse.  We can pretty much guess how this goes from here since it's fucking Groundhog Day.  This is why he's being turned on so quickly, plus he's a prick.  I know you've seen his presser by now.   What's fucked is this is where the timeline likely splits because his narcissism is having no part in demoting Beck Tuesday.  

Charlie tenure was like waterboarding for the fan base.   Hermans tenure is like waterboarding with old motor oil.   You know it's bad because you just spent 3 years getting waterboarded but you really don't realize how much worse this time is going to be.  Hopefully it ends sooner. 

Facebook reminded me that I posted this one year ago today. 21272503_10156650106842942_8035466690476

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Walden Ponderer

Walden Ponderer 12639

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11 minutes ago, bschoolprof said:

There were a few posters on the shag that were very worried about this - most of them were Charlie apologists though , so no one really paid much attention.  I remember cdt23 being really down on Herman and the fact he lost to SMU and Navy.  

He pretty much sucked against Memphis, too, if you watch the film. Lots of head scratchers in that one.

 

He's still better than Charlie. Not enough to save his job long term, but better than Charlie, so... Yay.

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MaybeACoordinator

MaybeACoordinator 8349

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54 minutes ago, ButtFumble said:

 

I know it would have never been popular, but I really wished Tom had kept Gilbert, but being an "offensive guy" (yea prove it mensa guy) I knew there was not a chance in hell he would, but unfortunately he did just like charlie and brought in very inexperienced "his guys" and then has been "loyal" to them

and yea from your post above the fake rap and "grillz" stuff was stupid as fuck too again that is G5 shit that sells to "us against the world" programs that take $25 million a year from academics to support their football while crying they belong in the Big 12 because they had a good season or two (before they watched their coach ditch them again)

that is the type of shit you have to throw in the garbage when you come to Texas because it is everyone looking to kick the shit out of Texas week in and week out

If Herman really wanted to be Mr Gangsta hip-hop ice OG he could have kept Gilbert on staff. Tony Montana found jobs for some competent dudes after "firing" the rest of them. 

 

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Not a cat

Not a cat 5660

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1 hour ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Didn't the Fire Charlie thread start after the Notre Dame loss? Seems like we are right on schedule.

It did, and then shut right back down a month later once that picture of him in a golden hat with a giant finger became a meme.  Amazing what a win over the land thieves will do for a coach's prospects and if Herman does that we'll love him again. Of course, I have serious doubts it'll happen after watching that shitshow yesterday.

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Surly Bevos

Surly Bevos 1

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Main similarity between Strong and Herman?

Both, through either ego or sheer stuborness, refuse to follow the number 1 rule of coaching: you build your "system" around the talents and strengths of the players you have. You don't try to force a rigid system on players who can't run it. 

This team has an OL that is far better suited to pass pro than power run blocking. The QB's strengths are more simple quick throws and no huddle. We have several receivers who are best able to work in space. And finally we have zero TE who are either game breaking receivers or great at power run blocking. 

The personel screams offense that spreads the field and works to attack defenses that are forced to go nickel and match up with the receivers in space. Yet here we are with Herman trying to force a power running game on an OL and QB that can't handle it. Pure stubbornness. 

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MaybeACoordinator

MaybeACoordinator 8349

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43 minutes ago, Surly Bevos said:

Main similarity between Strong and Herman?

Both, through either ego or sheer stuborness, refuse to follow the number 1 rule of coaching: you build your "system" around the talents and strengths of the players you have. You don't try to force a rigid system on players who can't run it. 

This team has an OL that is far better suited to pass pro than power run blocking. The QB's strengths are more simple quick throws and no huddle. We have several receivers who are best able to work in space. And finally we have zero TE who are either game breaking receivers or great at power run blocking. 

The personel screams offense that spreads the field and works to attack defenses that are forced to go nickel and match up with the receivers in space. Yet here we are with Herman trying to force a power running game on an OL and QB that can't handle it. Pure stubbornness. 

Charlie had no personnel on offense. A young D'Onta, a fragile Ash, a bunch of slackers on the OL and that was it. We really should have just run the Wing-T and have done with it. Couldn't have been worse than the actual results. 

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Shaggy3.0

Shaggy3.0 1695

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2 hours ago, Wally Pryor said:

I do and continue love Strong as a person and wish him nothing but good.  He was in over his head and also had to deal with that unbridled piece-of-shit fuckstick Patterson, but Strong never made excuses, took every hit from fans and the media while taking the high road and was just a solid guy, period. 

Compare and contrast with this Heman, whose shit never stinks in his eyes, will tell you that 2 + 2 = 5 because, well, he says so.  And he may present that new math with gold teeth, a baseball bat, sledgehammer or any other candy ass schtick that he or Michelle feels appropriate.

preach on, preacher.

 

 

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45976

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4 hours ago, Auto Driller said:

It has been repeated ad nauseum, but Charlie Strong was a likeable guy and therefore got the benefit of the doubt for a lot of bone headed decisions. Most people ended up agreeing that the responsibilities of managing a program the size of Texas was too much for him, and that he’s much better suited to a place like USF where alumni pressure is a lot lower and you only have to prepare for 2 or 3 really high quality opponents per year.

Tom Herman is the opposite. 

I find this perspective 100% backwards.  I disliked Charlie Strong because he came across as a dimwit.  I didn't trust him to be able to think his way out of the morass.  Herman is a sharp guy -- he's definitely losing any benefit of the doubt as a coach -- but at least he's not intellectually stunted.  Is that sufficient?  Certainly not, but it's necessary. 

I don't give a rat's ass if my CEO is a dickhead as long as he's making good decisions.  I "like" smart guys who don't get bogged down by complex problems.  Of course, solving those problems is job #1.

So far, Tom Herman has shown that he can't solve those problems but to act like Charlie did or should have gotten more slack because he was less offensive is silly.

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BradInATX

BradInATX 9208

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I find this perspective 100% backwards.  I disliked Charlie Strong because he came across as a dimwit.  I didn't trust him to be able to think his way out of the morass.  Herman is a sharp guy -- he's definitely losing any benefit of the doubt as a coach -- but at least he's not intellectually stunted.  Is that sufficient?  Certainly not, but it's necessary.  I don't give a rat's ass if my CEO is a dickhead as long as he's making good decisions.  I "like" smart guys who don't get bogged down by complex problems.  Of course, solving those problems is job #1.

So far, Tom Herman has shown that he can't solve those problems but to act like Charlie did or should have gotten more slack because he was less offensive is silly.

 

There is literally nothing about Tom Herman that comes across as smart. From the stupid piss chart to his redneck attitude to his complete inability to match scheme to personnel. I can't imagine why you would think either of them are smart. They're both idiots. We can and should do much, much better. 

 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

 

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MaybeACoordinator

MaybeACoordinator 8349

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2 hours ago, Walden Ponderer said:

He pretty much sucked against Memphis, too, if you watch the film. Lots of head scratchers in that one.

 

He's still better than Charlie. Not enough to save his job long term, but better than Charlie, so... Yay.

What is the basis for the "better than Charlie" aspect? Who are his NFL recruits? What programs has he rebuilt? What skins does he have on the wall as a Texas coach?

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Chad

Chad 1728

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Tom Herman is an arrogant prick. I'm to the point where I'd take Mike Leach. The pirate isn't a soft bitch and would win 9+ games a season. He's been competitive in the conference at Tech and would love to bury them year in and year out. Give the pirate a decent DC and he would win 9+ games yearly which would be a breath of fresh air compared to the Strong and Herman eras.

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MaybeACoordinator

MaybeACoordinator 8349

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2 minutes ago, Chad said:

Tom Herman is an arrogant prick. I'm to the point where I'd take Mike Leach. The pirate isn't a soft bitch and would win 9+ games a season. He's been competitive in the conference at Tech and would love to bury them year in and year out. Give the pirate a decent DC and he would win 9+ games yearly which would be a breath of fresh air compared to the Strong and Herman eras.

Would love to have the Pirate for multiple reasons. 

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MaybeACoordinator

MaybeACoordinator 8349

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3 minutes ago, Chad said:

Tom Herman is an arrogant prick. I'm to the point where I'd take Mike Leach. The pirate isn't a soft bitch and would win 9+ games a season. He's been competitive in the conference at Tech and would love to bury them year in and year out. Give the pirate a decent DC and he would win 9+ games yearly which would be a breath of fresh air compared to the Strong and Herman eras.

Never gonna happen because of the stuffed shirt BMDs

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