Herman vs. Strong

[Zavala 1384]

38 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

what should terrify everyone is that herman is probably just good enough to have something to point to that looks like progress. charlie was so fantastically shitty it made firing him easy. herman is going to underperform but find ways to make us look like a mediocre team right on the cusp of breaking through, which will make getting rid of him more difficult. 

Are you scared to death?

[Coelenterate Fuccboi 13176]

40 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

what should terrify everyone is that herman is probably just good enough to have something to point to that looks like progress. charlie was so fantastically shitty it made firing him easy. herman is going to underperform but find ways to make us look like a mediocre team right on the cusp of breaking through, which will make getting rid of him more difficult. 

I’m absolutely terrified and actually contemplating getting an emotional support animal.

[Hellraiser97 185]

I think Herman inherited a far worse situation than Strong so you can't compare the two.  Strong inherited a team that had under-performed, but still won 8-9 games the previous 3 years.  He turned them into a team that had three consecutive losing records, to which Herman inherited.  It's going to take more than 13 games to change that.  I'm willing to giver Herman a real chance to do it.

[ClubWhatever 12177]

5 minutes ago, Casual Encounter said:

I’m absolutely terrified and actually contemplating getting an emotional support animal.

Careful!  American Airlines will stuff him in the overhead bin.

[BurntOrange&White 40736]

I think Herman inherited a far worse situation than Strong so you can't compare the two.  Strong inherited a team that had under-performed, but still won 8-9 games the previous 3 years.  He turned them into a team that had three consecutive losing records, to which Herman inherited.  It's going to take more than 13 games to change that.  I'm willing to giver Herman a real chance to do it.

Not sure if serious.

[Hellraiser97 185]

 

1 minute ago, Bevo VIII said:

Not sure if serious.

Completely serious.  Charlie fucked us good.  Wanting to can the guy simply because he didn't immediately bring us back to the level we expect is down right aggieish.

[TwiceHorn 31705]

Yeah, no, I disagree with that.  Strong didn't quite fix the culture, but he brought it out of the primeval stew.  And his recruiting was an improvement on the prior few years, if still fairly full of holes (QB, RB).  You can't use the three years prior to Strong to say Strong had a full cupboard.  He had bits and pieces, Herman has a few more bits and pieces.  Quite a few more actually.

[Slacks 6922]

24 minutes ago, Hellraiser97 said:

I think Herman inherited a far worse situation than Strong so you can't compare the two.  Strong inherited a team that had under-performed, but still won 8-9 games the previous 3 years.  He turned them into a team that had three consecutive losing records, to which Herman inherited.  It's going to take more than 13 games to change that.  I'm willing to giver Herman a real chance to do it.

You serious? I mean, I suppose if you count David Ash and the OL that all get kicked out for smoking weed...

I would *MUCH* rather have the 2017 team than the 2014 team...

 

Doesn't matter. win.

[FriendofaFriend 93]

28 minutes ago, Hellraiser97 said:

I think Herman inherited a far worse situation than Strong so you can't compare the two.  Strong inherited a team that had under-performed, but still won 8-9 games the previous 3 years.  He turned them into a team that had three consecutive losing records, to which Herman inherited.  It's going to take more than 13 games to change that.  I'm willing to giver Herman a real chance to do it.

congrats on your brain injury

Edited September 4, 2018 by FriendofaFriend
quoted wrong post

[Hellraiser97 185]

Longhorn fans still making excuses for Strong and blaming everything on Mack.  Pathetic.

[BurntOrange&White 40736]

Longhorn fans still making excuses for Strong and blaming everything on Mack.  Pathetic.

What?

[Rhinotx 500]

1 hour ago, Hellraiser97 said:

I think Herman inherited a far worse situation than Strong so you can't compare the two.  Strong inherited a team that had under-performed, but still won 8-9 games the previous 3 years.  He turned them into a team that had three consecutive losing records, to which Herman inherited.  It's going to take more than 13 games to change that.  I'm willing to giver Herman a real chance to do it.

What do you mean? The cake was baked for Herman!

[Texasrocks 2212]

In case anyone forgot, here's the roster when Strong took over. There were some really talented seniors, but not much after that. Take out the seniors and I don't see many guys who would start on this year's team.

 

Name    Pos    Ht    Wt    Class
Dominic Espinosa    C    6'3    308    Sr.
Quandre Diggs    CB    5'10    195    Sr.
Ryan Roberts    CB    5'8    170    Sr.
Sheroid Evans    CB    6'0    190    Sr.
Brandon Allen    DB    6'2    200    Sr.
Cody Boswell    DB    5'11    180    Sr.
Devin Huffines    DB    6'0    195    Sr.
Cedric Reed    DE    6'5    272    Sr.
Nate Boyer    DS    5'10    195    Sr.
Desmond Jackson    DT    6'0    298    Sr.
Demarco Cobbs    LB    6'0    221    Sr.
Steve Edmond    LB    6'2    258    Sr.
Tevin Jackson    LB    6'2    245    Sr.
Jordan Hicks    LB    6'1    234    Sr
Desmond Harrison    OT    6'8    313    Sr.
William Russ    P/PK    6'3    206    Sr.
Michael Davidson    PK/Pv    6'4    200    Sr.
Miles Onyegbule    QB    6'4    230    Sr.
Eddie Aboussie    RB    5'9    221    Sr.
Malcolm Brown    RB    5'11    222    Sr.
Josh Turner    S    5'11    175    Sr.
Mykkele Thompson    S    6'2    191    Sr.
Chris Terry    TE    6'3    243    Sr.
Geoff Swaim    TE    6'4    250    Sr.
Greg Daniels    TE    6'4    246    Sr.
Chris Giron    WR    5'8    160    Sr.
Dakota Haines    WR    6'1    195    Sr.
David Thomann    WR    6'0    184    Sr.
Jaxon Shipley    WR    6'0    190    Sr.
John Harris    WR    6'2    218    Sr.
Duke Thomas    CB    5'11    178    Jr.
Dillon Boldt    DB    5'10    167    Jr.
Logan Mills    DE    6'3    223    Jr.
Shiro Davis    DE    6'3    253    Jr.
Malcom Brown    DT    6'2    320    Jr.
Alex De La Torre    FB    6'1    241    Jr.
Dominic Cruciani    FB    5'11    225    Jr.
Dalton Santos    LB    6'3    252    Jr.
Peter Jinkens    LB    6'1    237    Jr.
Trey Gonzales    LB    6'0    219    Jr.
Sedrick Flowers    OG    6'3    320    Jr.
Taylor Doyle    OG    6'4    298    Jr.
Marcus Hutchins    OL    6'5    278    Jr.
Ben Pruitt    PK    6'1    215    Jr.
Nick Rose    PK    6'2    203    Jr.
David Ash    QB    6'3    230    Jr.
Gaston Davis    RB    5'11    193    Jr.
Johnathan Gray    RB    5'11    215    Jr.
M.J. McFarland    TE    6'4    249    Jr.
Marcus Johnson    WR    6'1    193    Jr.
Daje Johnson    WR/RB    5'10    178    Jr.
Bryson Echols    CB    5'10    184    So.
Dylan Haines    DB    6'1    194    So.
Tyler Lee    DB    5'10    185    So.
Tyler Marriott    DB    6'1    192    So.
Bryce Cottrell    DE    6'2    247    So.
Caleb Bluiett    DE    6'3    261    So.
Johnny Tseng    DE    6'1    220    So.
Kyle Ashby    DS    6'1    227    So.
Alex Norman    DT    6'4    288    So.
Hassan Ridgeway    DT    6'4    307    So.
Paul Boyette Jr.    DT    6'2    302    So.
Timothy Cole    LB    6'1    236    So.
Curtis Riser    OG    6'4    324    So.
Clark Orren    OL    6'0    260    So.
Daniel Rodriguez    OL    6'2    299    So.
Camrhon Hughes    OT    6'7    324    So.
Kent Perkins    OT    6'5    330    So.
Nick Jordan    PK    6'1    175    So.
Logan Vinklarek    QB    6'1    217    So.
Trey Holtz    QB    6'0    190    So.
Tyrone Swoopes    QB    6'4    243    So.
Adrian Colbert    S    6'1    206    So.
Kevin Vaccaro    S    5'11    188    So.
Blake Whiteley    TE    6'5    250    So.
Jacorey Warrick    WR    5'11    172    So.
Ty Templin    WR    6'0    195    So.
Jake Raulerson    C    6'5    281    Fr.
Antwuan Davis    CB    5'11    193    Fr.
Jason Hall    DB    6'2    207    Fr.
Jermaine Roberts Jr.    DB    5'9    171    Fr.
John Bonney    DB    5'10    181    Fr.
Derick Roberson    DE    6'3    219    Fr.
Chris Nelson    DT    6'1    307    Fr.
Jake McMillon    DT    6'3    290    Fr.
Poona Ford    DT    5'11    280    Fr.
Cameron Hampton    LB    6'1    202    Fr.
Naashon Hughes    LB    6'4    232    Fr.
Darius James    OG    6'5    304    Fr.
Alex Anderson    OL    6'4    320    Fr.
Elijah Rodriguez    OL    6'3    292    Fr.
Frank Lopez    OL    6'2    300    Fr.
Terrell Cuney    OL    6'1    278    Fr.
Mitchell Becker    P    6'2    190    Fr.
Jerrod Heard    QB    6'2    199    Fr.
D’Onta Foreman    RB    6'2    215    Fr.
Donald Catalon    RB    5'10    195    Fr.
Edwin Freeman    S    6'1    220    Fr.
Erik Huhn    S    6'3    209    Fr.
Andrew Beck    TE    6'3    242    Fr.
Matt Center    TE/DS    6'2    218    Fr.
Armanti Foreman    WR    6'0    189    Fr.
Connor Huffman    WR    5'9    170    Fr.
Dorian Leonard    WR    6'3    201    Fr.
Garrett Gray    WR    6'4    211    Fr.
Hunter DeGroot    WR    6'1    207    Fr.
Jake Oliver    WR    6'3    214    Fr.
Lorenzo Joe    WR    6'2    201    Fr.
Roderick Bernard    WR    5'9    170    Fr.
 

[bschoolprof 6281]

2 hours ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

what should terrify everyone is that herman is probably just good enough to have something to point to that looks like progress. charlie was so fantastically shitty it made firing him easy. herman is going to underperform but find ways to make us look like a mediocre team right on the cusp of breaking through, which will make getting rid of him more difficult. 

That was my biggest fear with Strong - he would be just good enough to be mediocre and he was likable, so he'd hang around for years because he wasn't terrible and the optics of firing him given decent but not great seasons (e.g., 8-4) would be bad.  Fortunately, Strong was terrible at his job, so this was never an issue.

Similar to you, I fear the same thing with Mensa.  But he appears well on his way to three and out.  

 

[UTDD 362]

I think an important difference this time is that Texas has now suffered for a longer period of ineptitude and just went through the culmination of the Kansas loss with Strong so I would think patience wears more thin the longer it lasts.

[Hellraiser97 185]

2 hours ago, UTDD said:

I think an important difference this time is that Texas has now suffered for a longer period of ineptitude and just went through the culmination of the Kansas loss with Strong so I would think patience wears more thin the longer it lasts.

And this is what concerns me.  Herman may not be the guy to get us back where we belong, but there's no way you can tell that 1 game into the second season.  Anyone want to remember NCST?  Based on that game, I wouldn't have thought Mack would have managed a winning season that year, much less become our second all time winningest coach.  When we are immediately ready to toss someone under the bus one game into their second season, we start becoming like aggies.  

[Hellraiser97 185]

 

3 hours ago, Texasrocks said:

In case anyone forgot, here's the roster when Strong took over. There were some really talented seniors, but not much after that. Take out the seniors and I don't see many guys who would start on this year's team.

 

Name    Pos    Ht    Wt    Class
Dominic Espinosa    C    6'3    308    Sr.
Quandre Diggs    CB    5'10    195    Sr.
Ryan Roberts    CB    5'8    170    Sr.
Sheroid Evans    CB    6'0    190    Sr.
Brandon Allen    DB    6'2    200    Sr.
Cody Boswell    DB    5'11    180    Sr.
Devin Huffines    DB    6'0    195    Sr.
Cedric Reed    DE    6'5    272    Sr.
Nate Boyer    DS    5'10    195    Sr.
Desmond Jackson    DT    6'0    298    Sr.
Demarco Cobbs    LB    6'0    221    Sr.
Steve Edmond    LB    6'2    258    Sr.
Tevin Jackson    LB    6'2    245    Sr.
Jordan Hicks    LB    6'1    234    Sr
Desmond Harrison    OT    6'8    313    Sr.
William Russ    P/PK    6'3    206    Sr.
Michael Davidson    PK/Pv    6'4    200    Sr.
Miles Onyegbule    QB    6'4    230    Sr.
Eddie Aboussie    RB    5'9    221    Sr.
Malcolm Brown    RB    5'11    222    Sr.
Josh Turner    S    5'11    175    Sr.
Mykkele Thompson    S    6'2    191    Sr.
Chris Terry    TE    6'3    243    Sr.
Geoff Swaim    TE    6'4    250    Sr.
Greg Daniels    TE    6'4    246    Sr.
Chris Giron    WR    5'8    160    Sr.
Dakota Haines    WR    6'1    195    Sr.
David Thomann    WR    6'0    184    Sr.
Jaxon Shipley    WR    6'0    190    Sr.
John Harris    WR    6'2    218    Sr.
Duke Thomas    CB    5'11    178    Jr.
Dillon Boldt    DB    5'10    167    Jr.
Logan Mills    DE    6'3    223    Jr.
Shiro Davis    DE    6'3    253    Jr.
Malcom Brown    DT    6'2    320    Jr.
Alex De La Torre    FB    6'1    241    Jr.
Dominic Cruciani    FB    5'11    225    Jr.
Dalton Santos    LB    6'3    252    Jr.
Peter Jinkens    LB    6'1    237    Jr.
Trey Gonzales    LB    6'0    219    Jr.
Sedrick Flowers    OG    6'3    320    Jr.
Taylor Doyle    OG    6'4    298    Jr.
Marcus Hutchins    OL    6'5    278    Jr.
Ben Pruitt    PK    6'1    215    Jr.
Nick Rose    PK    6'2    203    Jr.
David Ash    QB    6'3    230    Jr.
Gaston Davis    RB    5'11    193    Jr.
Johnathan Gray    RB    5'11    215    Jr.
M.J. McFarland    TE    6'4    249    Jr.
Marcus Johnson    WR    6'1    193    Jr.
Daje Johnson    WR/RB    5'10    178    Jr.
Bryson Echols    CB    5'10    184    So.
Dylan Haines    DB    6'1    194    So.
Tyler Lee    DB    5'10    185    So.
Tyler Marriott    DB    6'1    192    So.
Bryce Cottrell    DE    6'2    247    So.
Caleb Bluiett    DE    6'3    261    So.
Johnny Tseng    DE    6'1    220    So.
Kyle Ashby    DS    6'1    227    So.
Alex Norman    DT    6'4    288    So.
Hassan Ridgeway    DT    6'4    307    So.
Paul Boyette Jr.    DT    6'2    302    So.
Timothy Cole    LB    6'1    236    So.
Curtis Riser    OG    6'4    324    So.
Clark Orren    OL    6'0    260    So.
Daniel Rodriguez    OL    6'2    299    So.
Camrhon Hughes    OT    6'7    324    So.
Kent Perkins    OT    6'5    330    So.
Nick Jordan    PK    6'1    175    So.
Logan Vinklarek    QB    6'1    217    So.
Trey Holtz    QB    6'0    190    So.
Tyrone Swoopes    QB    6'4    243    So.
Adrian Colbert    S    6'1    206    So.
Kevin Vaccaro    S    5'11    188    So.
Blake Whiteley    TE    6'5    250    So.
Jacorey Warrick    WR    5'11    172    So.
Ty Templin    WR    6'0    195    So.
Jake Raulerson    C    6'5    281    Fr.
Antwuan Davis    CB    5'11    193    Fr.
Jason Hall    DB    6'2    207    Fr.
Jermaine Roberts Jr.    DB    5'9    171    Fr.
John Bonney    DB    5'10    181    Fr.
Derick Roberson    DE    6'3    219    Fr.
Chris Nelson    DT    6'1    307    Fr.
Jake McMillon    DT    6'3    290    Fr.
Poona Ford    DT    5'11    280    Fr.
Cameron Hampton    LB    6'1    202    Fr.
Naashon Hughes    LB    6'4    232    Fr.
Darius James    OG    6'5    304    Fr.
Alex Anderson    OL    6'4    320    Fr.
Elijah Rodriguez    OL    6'3    292    Fr.
Frank Lopez    OL    6'2    300    Fr.
Terrell Cuney    OL    6'1    278    Fr.
Mitchell Becker    P    6'2    190    Fr.
Jerrod Heard    QB    6'2    199    Fr.
D’Onta Foreman    RB    6'2    215    Fr.
Donald Catalon    RB    5'10    195    Fr.
Edwin Freeman    S    6'1    220    Fr.
Erik Huhn    S    6'3    209    Fr.
Andrew Beck    TE    6'3    242    Fr.
Matt Center    TE/DS    6'2    218    Fr.
Armanti Foreman    WR    6'0    189    Fr.
Connor Huffman    WR    5'9    170    Fr.
Dorian Leonard    WR    6'3    201    Fr.
Garrett Gray    WR    6'4    211    Fr.
Hunter DeGroot    WR    6'1    207    Fr.
Jake Oliver    WR    6'3    214    Fr.
Lorenzo Joe    WR    6'2    201    Fr.
Roderick Bernard    WR    5'9    170    Fr.
 

The problem with that comparison is that you're looking at how those guys played under Strong for the most part and saying "Hey they turned out to suck!"  Well, their coaching sucked.  Who knows how they would have performed with even moderately capable coaching.

Edited September 4, 2018 by Hellraiser97

[CBHorn 440]

4 minutes ago, Hellraiser97 said:

And this is what concerns me.  Herman may not be the guy to get us back where we belong, but there's no way you can tell that 1 game into the second season.  Anyone want to remember NCST?  Based on that game, I wouldn't have thought Mack would have managed a winning season that year, much less become our second all time winningest coach.  When we are immediately ready to toss someone under the bus one game into their second season, we start becoming like aggies.  

This is surly. Keep that rationalism and cautious thinking out of here.

Also, username doesn't check out.

[Hellraiser97 185]

13 minutes ago, CBHorn said:

This is surly. Keep that rationalism and cautious thinking out of here.

Also, username doesn't check out.

I've become mellow in my old age.  Well, except when I yell at clouds.

[Zavala 1384]

15 minutes ago, Hellraiser97 said:

I've become mellow in my old age.  Well, except when I yell at clouds.

I'm 30, graduated 2010. 

If they look shakey against Tulsa when I'm there this weekend, I may reconsider, but I still believe in the coaching staff and TH.

[irishtexan 11595]

They both suck.

[Texasrocks 2212]

47 minutes ago, Hellraiser97 said:

 

The problem with that comparison is that you're looking at how those guys played under Strong for the most part and saying "Hey they turned out to suck!"  Well, their coaching sucked.  Who knows how they would have performed with even moderately capable coaching.

Swoopes would probably be a TE this year. Dylan Haines wouldn't see the field. Those guys were starters and they wouldn't make the two deep this year no matter who the coach was. That was just a bad roster.

[scottsins 1999]

8 hours ago, Hellraiser97 said:

I think Herman inherited a far worse situation than Strong so you can't compare the two.  Strong inherited a team that had under-performed, but still won 8-9 games the previous 3 years.  He turned them into a team that had three consecutive losing records, to which Herman inherited.  It's going to take more than 13 games to change that.  I'm willing to giver Herman a real chance to do it.

No coach inherits a team that won _____ games the prior season, unless every single player returns.  The immediately preceding records are a terrible gauge to use.  You have attrition, “purge” type shit, etc. to consider.

[scottsins 1999]

3 hours ago, Hellraiser97 said:

And this is what concerns me.  Herman may not be the guy to get us back where we belong, but there's no way you can tell that 1 game into the second season.  Anyone want to remember NCST?  Based on that game, I wouldn't have thought Mack would have managed a winning season that year, much less become our second all time winningest coach.  When we are immediately ready to toss someone under the bus one game into their second season, we start becoming like aggies.  

I definitely agree that a truly informed assessment can not be made at this point. However, this is nothing like the NCST thing, for many reasons.

[Surly Bevo 25542]

Mainly Mack's first year as I have said elsewhere.  He took a 4 win team from 97 and....

1.  Beat OU

2.  Beat Aggy

3.  Ended Nebraska 47 game home winning streak

4.  Didn't fuck up winning Ricky the Heisman

5.  Won a Cotton Bowl beating cockmunch Sherrill in the process.

 

Other than that....sure it's exactly the same.  

Edited September 4, 2018 by Surly Bevo

[Surly Bevo 25542]

And let's be clear.  Herman could have had that kind of first year, hell Herman should have had that year. Don't get beat by MD, close down either the USC or OU game.  Don't fuck your own ass during he Tech game and the Oklahoma state game..  

[Hank Chinaski 6324]

This

18 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

Mainly Mack's first year as I have said elsewhere.  He took a 4 win team from 97 and....

1.  Beat OU

2.  Beat Aggy

3.  Ended Nebraska 47 game home winning streak

4.  Didn't fuck up winning Ricky the Heisman

5.  Won a Cotton Bowl beating cockmunch Sherrill in the process.

 

Other than that....sure it's exactly the same.  

and

16 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

And let's be clear.  Herman could have had that kind of first year, hell Herman should have had that year. Don't get beat by MD, close down either the USC or OU game.  Don't fuck your own ass during he Tech game and the Oklahoma state game..  

The Mack and Herman situations are not comparable. Mack also signed the top-rated offensive (Simms) and defensive (Redding) players in the country after accomplishing all those things listed above in 1998. 

The NC St game was what it was, but the first impression for Mack was very different than for Herman. He'd already built up enough good will for a mulligan. Herman has not. 

Everyone is losing their minds because Herman didn't show much during year 1, and year 2 has started in the exact same way. 

Also...it's been noted here repeatedly, but most of the great coaches from the past few decades were already winning big in year 2. 

Edited September 5, 2018 by Hank Chinaski

[Hellraiser97 185]

25 minutes ago, scottsins said:

I definitely agree that a truly informed assessment can not be made at this point. However, this is nothing like the NCST thing, for many reasons.

Every clusterfuck is unique for its own reasons, but they have in common that both were loses to teams we should have soundly beat due to multiple coaching failures and poor player execution.  Certain different coaching failures and player execution.

[DanTheHorn 4973]

Lets see Tom vs Strong

[Slacks 6922]

damn near every offensive player in the 2-deep for Mack's first two years would start over these players or the players of Strong's first 2 years.

Why are we comparing them?

All of the offensive starters from this year (and probably Rising) would start over most of the starters for Strong's last year (Williams, Vahe, Foreman, Perkins, CJ.)

Why are we comparing them?

This team SHOULD be better than Strong's, but not necessarily better than Mack's... especially the OL.

let's just win the next one...

[TwiceHorn 31705]

The other thing that's really disconcerting about this (but I agree that it's still too early to completely write Herman off), is that Herman was virtually tap-dancing on Strong's grave.  He didn't say it outright, but he intimated that he would make none of the mistakes Strong made, because Mensa.  And, as it currently stands, there are more similarities than dissimilarities.

[Revolution512 1510]

Both had rosters of incredibly average football players. Strong had Brown and he’s the last true stud player we’ve had. 

When Herman was hired I said he wasn’t the guy and I felt the next coach would finally be the one to right the ship. With CDC in place now, I’m in full belief that’ll come true.

I was hoping for Fuente last time around but that dream will likely die. By the time we usher this smug prick out the door Fuente will be unattainable. So I don’t know who will emerge but I’m ready whenever CDC is.

[Hooky Hornstein 35]

Charlie Strong was David McWilliams, while Tom Herman is John Mackovic.

As Texas fans we want every coach to succeed and we’re bitterly disappointed when they don’t.

But you know what makes it even worse?

When they’re dicks about it.

Strong and McWilliams made crappy decisions and humiliated Texas football but at least you felt like their hearts were in the right place and they were just as heartbroken about it as the fanbase was.

Mackovic and Herman, on the otherhand, were/are both so fucking narcissistic they actually revel in their crappy decisions and inconsistent logic, disassociate from the humiliation to blame others, and treat the fanbase with contempt.

if you’re going to be an asshole like that, you really need to win quick and big because the patience of the insulted fanbase is gonna be worn paper thin.

Edited September 5, 2018 by Hooky Hornstein

[Disco Missile 456]

I was biased against Strong from the get-go.
I mentioned it on the other site, but I have a cousin that coaches a state champ HS team in Kentucky and I asked him his thoughts on Strong while he was at Louisville. To my shock he had nothing good to say. I know some other coaches in KY and TX and the ones that knew anything about him said similar things. 
When Strong came and got a chilly reception from Texas HS coaches, Shaggy unloaded on the 'entitled' 'bitchy' 'needy' HS coaches running down a good man. But I knew some good men/coaches that didn't like him and also didn't think he was any good. But online message boards aren't known for moderation.

There was also the charge of racism Strong leveled against UF when they passed him over. That was pretty crappy. 
Also, the word was that he recruited Bridgewater to play for him at UL after Shannon was fired at Miami to play for a black coach. 

That was just the initial phase. Then Strong took a mediocre team and made them worse. We were lucky to make the Texas bowl, and got our asses kicked. Charlie was a terrible gameday coach, was awful at making adjustments on the fly, had zero control of his players, and every game he just scowled and paced the sidelines. His pressers showed that he had no idea what was happening on the field - he messed up names, didn't know who was playing when - it was a shambles, and it lasted for 3 years.

Yet people supported him and many were heartbroken when he lost at Kansas all but ending what looked like a certain bowl eligible season.

 

With Tom I knew nothing about him. Clean slate. People from Houston thought he was a lunatic and had strong opinions about him, but there were three qualities I saw in him that I liked: his perfectionism, his attention to detail, and his work ethic. The coaches I asked about him didn't know him personally but said he was energetic and acknowledged the amount of hype around him. Even coaches aren't immune from that type of stuff in their own profession.

I gave him a pass year one. He made some mistakes. The offense was anemic. But we did make a bowl game and pulled off an upset win.
The Maryland game was a waste. I put most of it on Tom. We were unprepared, played tight, didn't stick with what worked, and let Maryland play to all of their strengths. That doesn't give me a lot of hope for the future. But based on his record so far and the qualities I believed I saw in him at first I am willing to give him some more rope. But if year two doesn't get better quickly, and if Tom can't provide better answers than he did after the game, he's a dud.

 

[Treefidy 1490]

2 hours ago, Hellraiser97 said:

Every clusterfuck is unique for its own reasons, but they have in common that both were loses to teams we should have soundly beat due to multiple coaching failures and poor player execution.  Certain different coaching failures and player execution.

Dude, Mack went 9-3 his first year here, beating #6, #7 and #23, and losing to #5, #6 and at tech.  He beat the shit out of OU and we ended the season ranked in the top 20, all right after the fucked up 1997 season.  

He bought himself a lot of good will because we saw definitive progress and an upward trajectory in year 1.  

this looks and feels nothing like Macks first season and 1 game except they both lost G1S2. Mack was reigniting interest in Texas football, Herman is quoting of mice and men and confusing it with Elmer Fudd.  

 

[dcar00 14631]

1 hour ago, Hooky Hornstein said:

Charlie Strong was David McWilliams, while Tom Herman is John Mackovic.

As Texas fans we want every coach to succeed and we’re bitterly disappointed when they don’t.

But you know what makes it even worse?

When they’re dicks about it.

Strong and McWilliams made crappy decisions and humiliated Texas football but at least you felt like their hearts were in the right place and they were just as heartbroken about it as the fanbase was.

Mackovic and Herman, on the otherhand, were/are both so fucking narcissistic they actually revel in their crappy decisions and inconsistent logic, disassociate from the humiliation to blame others, and treat the fanbase with contempt.

if you’re going to be an asshole like that, you really need to win quick and big because the patience of the insulted fanbase is gonna be worn paper thin.

It is particularly interesting how history is repeating itself.  the only thing we are missing so far is that Charlie didn't have his one "shock the nation" season.  Akers was pretty dame close to Mack except mack had the one NC. Akers had 2 shots at the NC.

[Treefidy 1490]

1 hour ago, Hooky Hornstein said:

Charlie Strong was David McWilliams, while Tom Herman is John Mackovic.

As Texas fans we want every coach to succeed and we’re bitterly disappointed when they don’t.

But you know what makes it even worse?

When they’re dicks about it.

Strong and McWilliams made crappy decisions and humiliated Texas football but at least you felt like their hearts were in the right place and they were just as heartbroken about it as the fanbase was.

Mackovic and Herman, on the otherhand, were/are both so fucking narcissistic they actually revel in their crappy decisions and inconsistent logic, disassociate from the humiliation to blame others, and treat the fanbase with contempt.

if you’re going to be an asshole like that, you really need to win quick and big because the patience of the insulted fanbase is gonna be worn paper thin.

Not bad analogies, so I guess we can hope Herman pulls zach evans and either he or Ingram turns out to be the next Ricky and win the heisman for the next guy.  

[TwiceHorn 31705]

1 hour ago, Hooky Hornstein said:

Charlie Strong was David McWilliams, while Tom Herman is John Mackovic.

As Texas fans we want every coach to succeed and we’re bitterly disappointed when they don’t.

But you know what makes it even worse?

When they’re dicks about it.

Strong and McWilliams made crappy decisions and humiliated Texas football but at least you felt like their hearts were in the right place and they were just as heartbroken about it as the fanbase was.

Mackovic and Herman, on the otherhand, were/are both so fucking narcissistic they actually revel in their crappy decisions and inconsistent logic, disassociate from the humiliation to blame others, and treat the fanbase with contempt.

if you’re going to be an asshole like that, you really need to win quick and big because the patience of the insulted fanbase is gonna be worn paper thin.

And McWilliams came across as a deputy dawg dipshit despite being one of the smartest owners of a T-ring, by all accounts.  I doubt Strong is as smart as David, but appearances can be deceiving.

 

Scary parallels.

[Guest Lobo]

I don't think many of us would have such an issue with taking "up & comers" for major sports and dealing with their growth trajectory if they cost "up and comer" money.  Paying Strong, Smart, and Herman at the absolute top of their field with uncertain pasts and unrealistic expectations is dangerous.  When you pay the new guy 8x what his boss makes because his name was featured in some cool blogs, shit's gonna hit the fan.  

[bschoolprof 6281]

6 hours ago, Hellraiser97 said:

And this is what concerns me.  Herman may not be the guy to get us back where we belong, but there's no way you can tell that 1 game into the second season.  Anyone want to remember NCST?  Based on that game, I wouldn't have thought Mack would have managed a winning season that year, much less become our second all time winningest coach.  When we are immediately ready to toss someone under the bus one game into their second season, we start becoming like aggies.  

This is revisionist bullshit and the two scenarios are not even remotely comparable.  Mack's 1998 season was one for the ages, where each week we looked better than the next, culminating in a dominant bowl win. The NC state loss, while frustrating and disappointing because of the 3 blocked punts, was nothing like the Maryland loss.  We had 20 first downs to their 6, held them to 170 yards, and gained almost 400 yards, and that's with a midget running back and a shit line.  We led at halftime and most of the game.  If not for 3 blocked punts, we win that game. Easily.  Putting that hiccup aside, any objective observer of the program could see that it was on an upward trend - on the field, in the stands, in recruiting.  

None of that can be said about the current state of the program.  Herman inherited a team with some talent and some deficiencies and has managed to do about as well as his shitty predecessor.  He's made terrible staff decisions, terrible personnel decisions, and terrible play design and play call decisions given our talent.  Moreover, we keep making the same fucking mistakes over and over again.  Abandoning the run game.  Going away from what works. Not riding the hot hand. Playing guys he anoints because he likes their moxie or the way they practice our whatever and not putting the well-being of the team first.  Protecting his buddies.  Insulting fans and media.  Being an overall arrogant shithead. The current trend of the program is clearly not upward.  It's not so much about the W-L - it's about how we look on the field.  Shitty.

But Tom will get his chance.  He'll get at least 3 years, barring some major catastrophe.  If he gets us to the conference championship game this year (as Mack did in 1999), all is forgiven.  

 

[gmr548 16645]

6 minutes ago, bschoolprof said:

This is revisionist bullshit and the two scenarios are not even remotely comparable.  Mack's 1998 season was one for the ages, where each week we looked better than the next, culminating in a dominant bowl win. The NC state loss, while frustrating and disappointing because of the 3 blocked punts, was nothing like the Maryland loss.  We had 20 first downs to their 6, held them to 170 yards, and gained almost 400 yards, and that's with a midget running back and a shit line.  We led at halftime and most of the game.  If not for 3 blocked punts, we win that game. Easily.  Putting that hiccup aside, any objective observer of the program could see that it was on an upward trend - on the field, in the stands, in recruiting.  

None of that can be said about the current state of the program.  Herman inherited a team with some talent and some deficiencies and has managed to do about as well as his shitty predecessor.  He's made terrible staff decisions, terrible personnel decisions, and terrible play design and play call decisions given our talent.  Moreover, we keep making the same fucking mistakes over and over again.  Abandoning the run game.  Going away from what works. Not riding the hot hand. Playing guys he anoints because he likes their moxie or the way they practice our whatever and not putting the well-being of the team first.  Protecting his buddies.  Insulting fans and media.  Being an overall arrogant shithead. The current trend of the program is clearly not upward.  It's not so much about the W-L - it's about how we look on the field.  Shitty.

But Tom will get his chance.  He'll get at least 3 years, barring some major catastrophe.  If he gets us to the conference championship game this year (as Mack did in 1999), all is forgiven.  

 

Yup, agree 100%. There are 11 games left, and none of us assholes know for sure what will happen. The trend line isn't encouraging though.