The end goal of Trumpism is Putin’s Russia. Insular, inward-looking, and apart from the global community. Economy in the hands of a small political in-crowd. Intellectuals, dissenters, and the press harassed or worse. A population that’s homogeneous, aging, angry, and paranoid. Even if courts or future elections overturn specific policies, the perception that America is unwelcoming and unfriendly will last for a generation or more.

I’m probably 10 to 15 years from retirement. I can ride it out and then check out. But we have elementary school-aged kids. A life in Putin’s Russia is not what I want for them and we’re now facing the same tough decision that a lot of Asians, Latin Americans, and Africans did in the 20th century: would my kids have a better life outside of the place that I call home? We also, fortunately, have some means to do something about it (not Surly 1%).

Would like to hear serious thoughts on how best to prepare them. Foreign language lessons? Somehow start building a case for residency/citizenship elsewhere now? I think a few of you have sent kids overseas for college - is the idea/possibility that they will stay? I’m honestly not trying to be alarmist, just proactive. If my take on the world turns out to be dead wrong, then great. But I’m also not the kind of person that wants to leave any stone unturned. 

5 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

People like you are one of the reasons some are thinking like this.  

I'd ask if you're proud of yourself.   But I already know the answer.

2 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

People like you are one of the reasons some are thinking like this.  

I'd ask if you're proud of yourself.   But I already know the answer.

I tell you what this board needed...the fiftieth version of, "I'm out, headed for Canada...HoW Do iT DO i ??!!?!?!?!!??111"  

 

Do it, or don't .   But for the love of God stop with the fucking idiotic drivel about it.  

2 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

I tell you what this board needed...the fiftieth version of, "I'm out, headed for Canada...HoW Do iT DO i ??!!?!?!?!!??111"  

 

Do it, or don't .   But for the love of God stop with the fucking idiotic drivel about it.  

Don't you have a Zero Hedge article to post somewhere?

Just now, Macanudo said:

Don't you have a Zero Hedge article to post somewhere?

perchance you have me confused with someone else?  I don't believe I have ever posted anything from Zero Hedge.

Mexico should create a path to citizenship for Americans of Mexican heritage going back several generations. My family is 4th generation born on this side of the Rio but retains a lot of ethnic Mexican culture (with some distinctly South Texas/American differences). My brother in law’s parents were born in Mexico and he got dual citizenship a long time ago. I’m very jealous, they have a legit exit plan. I’m pretty much stuck in this shithole country and also fear for my children. If this continues they’ll probably make it illegal for Americans to study abroad or even leave for more than a few days at a time. My kids also have a z at the end of their last name like me and we know where that’s heading even now regardless of citizenship. There’s no hyperbole anymore, the most outrageous shit is clearly on the table. We’ve learned there is no bottom.

Just now, 'stache said:

My kids also have a z at the end of their last name like me and we know where that’s heading even now regardless of citizenship.

One of the administration's chief advisors has openly claimed that there are "65 million illegals" in the US.  That is not true.  What is true is that there are 65 million HISPANICS in the US.  So, understand that this is an undeniable truth: to the current Regime, "hispanic" = "illegal."  And further understand that they have made it plain that anyone the Regime decides is "illegal" has no right to due process.  Due process only applies to Americans, not to illegals.

No due process for illegals + All hispanics are illegals = no due process for hispanics in the US.  The logical syllogism isn't a lengthy one, and it's pretty fucking direct and linear.  If you are hispanic in the US and you don't have a self-defense and/or exit plan, you're a fucking fool.

8 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Mexico should create a path to citizenship for Americans of Mexican heritage going back several generations.

Why would they create something that already exists?

 

https://consulmex.sre.gob.mx/littlerock/index.php/serv-extranjeros

 

Residing in Mexico

Foreign Nationals can immigrate into Mexico in any of the following characteristics:

Rentista, Scientist, Technician, Business, Student, and as a Family member of a Mexican national, family member of a Temporary Resident or Permanent Resident.

Permanent Resident

After five years as a temporary resident in Mexico, a foreign national can obtain the "Permanent Resident status", which means he or she has his/her permanent residence in Mexico.

 

Real answers and I don’t disagree with the premise.

The best overall solution, as with most things, is money. With enough money (assuming that we don’t end up a pariah like North Korea or 2022 Russia), immigration and livelihood questions melt away.  A good current target? Accessible assets worth more than 1 million per kid can get an investor visa to a country worth living in and a start to making a livelihood.  More is of course much better. 
 

Second to money is a skill that is portable to make money and that can build connections.  Tech, business, elective medicine, and believe it or not— academia— are ideas to consider.  Academia will be less well paid but there are pathways to jobs and networks.  Seeking employment after graduation at large multinationals and looking for international work within them is a good pathway. For tech, you need to do something really meaningful and specialized at a high level for it to work.  Look and see what paths are only available at North American or Western European schools and choose those. Learning to code throws you in with subcontinental people who want to come here for poverty wages. 
 

Learning foreign languages and study abroad is good to begin building networks and getting comfortable in international settings, it’s the fundamentals and not what will get you there.  Being able to write and speak excellently and clearly in English will be far more valuable internationally than almost any foreign language they can realistically learn. 

7 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Why would they create something that already exists?

 

https://consulmex.sre.gob.mx/littlerock/index.php/serv-extranjeros

 

Residing in Mexico

Foreign Nationals can immigrate into Mexico in any of the following characteristics:

Rentista, Scientist, Technician, Business, Student, and as a Family member of a Mexican national, family member of a Temporary Resident or Permanent Resident.

Permanent Resident

After five years as a temporary resident in Mexico, a foreign national can obtain the "Permanent Resident status", which means he or she has his/her permanent residence in Mexico.

 

Incredible work, outstanding. Did you even read his post?

Then again, it tracks that MAGA dipshit doesn't know what the difference is between citizen and permanent resident.

3 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Then again, it tracks that MAGA dipshit doesn't know what the difference is between citizen and permanent resident.

Which is it?  Are we fleeing oppression or parsing the legal status of "refugees"?

 

"I HAVE to get out of here, but I will only go if I can be a citizen!!!!"

 

 

2 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Which is it?  Are we fleeing oppression or parsing the legal status of "refugees"?

"I HAVE to get out of here, but I will only go if I can be a citizen!!!!"

What the fuck even is your point? Do you even know?

Just now, Brian Fantana said:

What the fuck even is your point? Do you even know?

It's not remotely challenging to move to Mexico permanently.

Apologies if this is well-trodden ground in the CR. Delete thread, ban user, etc.

I mainly just want to explore strategies to set my kids up with attainable options. Particularly interested in hearing the perspective of Surlyites with older kids, like high school and college-aged. @956 Worldwide makes good points about choosing a career field that offers good mobility, but my kids are young enough that it's hard to even predict the trajectory of the American university system between now and then.

1 minute ago, tokamak said:

Apologies if this is well-trodden ground in the CR. Delete thread, ban user, etc.

I mainly just want to explore strategies to set my kids up with attainable options. Particularly interested in hearing the perspective of Surlyites with older kids, like high school and college-aged. @956 Worldwide makes good points about choosing a career field that offers good mobility, but my kids are young enough that it's hard to even predict the trajectory of the American university system between now and then.

Your questions are fine, the resident MAGA troll just wants some attention.

 

Last weekend I spent like an hour perusing rural French estates with sprawling grounds that can be had for 1-2m. Buildings hundreds of years old in good condition. So I guess that's my plan. With the parapets and towers, I figure I can hold off the French immigration authorities.

5 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Your questions are fine, the resident MAGA troll just wants some attention.

I definitely could've gone with a less clickbait-y thread title. That's on me.

I have an engineer's mindset and I like to be as prepared as possible for externalities. I don't know that anything in the thread's first paragraph is even debatable at this point, although I'd love to be convinced otherwise. Extrapolation is always very tricky, especially when we're talking about human events, but it's all we can do. On current trends, the world my kids will inherit won't be as welcoming and dynamic as the one that I inherited. How best to pave the way for them? That's all.

1 hour ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Real answers and I don’t disagree with the premise.

The best overall solution, as with most things, is money. With enough money (assuming that we don’t end up a pariah like North Korea or 2022 Russia), immigration and livelihood questions melt away.  A good current target? Accessible assets worth more than 1 million per kid can get an investor visa to a country worth living in and a start to making a livelihood.  More is of course much better. 
 

Second to money is a skill that is portable to make money and that can build connections.  Tech, business, elective medicine, and believe it or not— academia— are ideas to consider.  Academia will be less well paid but there are pathways to jobs and networks.  Seeking employment after graduation at large multinationals and looking for international work within them is a good pathway. For tech, you need to do something really meaningful and specialized at a high level for it to work.  Look and see what paths are only available at North American or Western European schools and choose those. Learning to code throws you in with subcontinental people who want to come here for poverty wages. 
 

Learning foreign languages and study abroad is good to begin building networks and getting comfortable in international settings, it’s the fundamentals and not what will get you there.  Being able to write and speak excellently and clearly in English will be far more valuable internationally than almost any foreign language they can realistically learn. 

Agree with this 100% I'm not a parent so take my additional advice, or not. I personally worry about the upcoming generations and how they will thrive.

If I had kids, I would be pushing them to be curious and learn more about how AI is changing the world. Obviously a 5 year old's exposure shouldn't be the same as a 22 year old. AI is going to increase productivity and eliminate some jobs, so anyone with ambitions to have a comfortable life with money needs to understand how to use it to their advantage.

If you were hiring a data analyst today, would you want someone who's resume demonstrates their knowledge on how to crunch numbers, or the person who also knows how to do that but via AI tools? Do you want to hire a VP who can competently manage and plan a division at your company, or a similar VP candidate who has experience deploying AI tools to increase productivity? AI will quickly become an essential skill.

My daughter refused to entertain any recruiters from traditional red states for college volleyball. She is headed to a blue state for school. We saw it as an opportunity to vacate Texas as a family. So we will see how that goes but we are also looking at properties outside the country. If things start to really hit the fan me and my daughter are out(the brown ones) and my wife will stay and close up shop.

FWIW, we are exploring Czech (easier) and German (far more of a challenge) citizenship so we have an exit strategy to any EU country.  
 

I’m not eager to leave, by any means, and still love Texas.  That said, we are clearly going backwards from a good governance perspective and I’m not really seeing elites from either side show any willingness to address core cultural and little d democratic issues that might help steer us out of the nose dive.  

1 hour ago, Incredulity said:

It's not remotely challenging to move to Mexico permanently.

Actually it is. Believe it or not, Mexico has a real government and real politicians, and has many arbitrary roadblocks like in the US. I’d like to think the current climate would make them loosen up those restrictions for people from the US including regular job people not just high skill blah blah blah. Hence my comment. And yeah I was specifically talking about citizenship not work visas. But yeah, I know you think “bro calm down” because everything’s great from your perspective. MAGA policies for the lulz.

Edited May 29, 20251 yr by 'stache

3 hours ago, Incredulity said:

I tell you what this board needed...the fiftieth version of, "I'm out, headed for Canada...HoW Do iT DO i ??!!?!?!?!!??111"  

 

Do it, or don't .   But for the love of God stop with the fucking idiotic drivel about it.  

Fuck you, dude.  You people (that's right) don't get to destroy this country and then tell everybody else to quit bitching about it.

The thread title was pretty clear.  If that's not what you want to see, then read some other thread.

Edited May 29, 20251 yr by TexArcher

Look at countries that have had shit hit the fan in the last 100 years. What commonalities exist between the people that were able to get out before it got bad.

1. Money. Probably the most important aspect as it makes picking up, moving, and having funds to live off of possible.

2. Foresight. If things get bad we will have a lot of people looking to leave at the same time. Also, we have a lot of people with money. Restrictions will certainly get tighter and we have already seen that in some popular destinations. Jumping before the masses would help greatly. 

3. Political connections. Always helps to have somebody greasing the wheels in your favor. I don’t think it’s particularly necessary if you have a lot of 1 and 2.

I wanted to make a separate post to ask a question about the perceptions of different posters. I’m in Texas where we get the double whammy of MAGA at the federal level and the likes of Abbot, Paxton, and Patrick at the state level. 

Do the left leaning posters currently living in blue states feel the same sense of demoralization about the future of the US?

25 minutes ago, Larry T. Spider said:

 

Do the left leaning posters currently living in blue states feel the same sense of demoralization about the future of the US?

Yes.  Maybe not as intensely, but yes.  On the national level, cuts or elimination of programs hurts us all. On the state level blue states are absolutely being targeted and scrambling to come up with say, ways to fund fire fighting.  Or feeding kids.  It is scary.  And if you moved to a blue state to enjoy the scenery, well they're doing their best to kill that as well.  

On the flip side, there is at least the idea that your blue state will do its best to band together, so emotionally I think its better than being back in a red state.  Whether that translates to any efficacy is another question.

So the stress is there.  I have no serious current plans to leave the country however.   Long before Trump I did fantasize about retiring to some Spanish speaking country where my money goes further and medical care won't drain my retirement and leave me destitute.  Plus, I like the adventure idea and really getting to know some new place.  I have not traveled as much as others.   But that's still more fantasy than reality.  I still love where I live, so why let the assholes force me out?  Plus, imo, this right wing oligarchic tilt knows no borders. Neither does climate change.

Lastly, someone else mentioned tech as a career.  As someone in tech I'd be very cautious. AI has a lot of too much hype, but there is a reality of it as well.   And that reality is that the tech world is going to have a lot less jobs, especially entry level jobs.  Don't think they will be coming back.  No more than buggy drivers or elevator operators.  Just my opinion.  Hoping to survive the next 10-15 years in the field but I am not advising my kids to go into it.  

Edited May 29, 20251 yr by MC Fresh Breath

i will say that i do feel an overwhelming sense of relief and gratitude every time i read some fresh cruelty or idiocy or crime perpetrated by Texas leadership. there is something to be said about not having state leaders actively trying to make life worse for their citizens. 

it's also quite liberating once you are outside of it...i equated it to being in an abusive relationship and not even realizing it... you don't realize how bad it was until you actually get out! my perspective has changed tremendously.

Step 1: taking the kids to London and Paris next week for the their first time,

Step 2: encouraging them to do overseas full semester study as soon as they can (2nd soph semester or 1st jr semester),

Step 3: maybe with enough time in other countries they'll find a way to stay, particularly if things here keep going downhill.

 

Mrs. Bullneck and I can survive here until we retire then we're likely headed for the Caribbean somewhere.  

Edited May 29, 20251 yr by Bullneck

1 hour ago, Larry T. Spider said:

I wanted to make a separate post to ask a question about the perceptions of different posters. I’m in Texas where we get the double whammy of MAGA at the federal level and the likes of Abbot, Paxton, and Patrick at the state level. 

Do the left leaning posters currently living in blue states feel the same sense of demoralization about the future of the US?

Universities, national parks, education and hospitals are getting hit no matter where you are. 

One major roadblock for leaving the country, say with a US bank account, SS, or as my wife has—retirement for career teaching, is simply that the govt could just pull the plug on any of it. Contracts mean nothing now. And if you live overseas, what’s to prevent the government from stating they no longer view expats as Americans, since they no longer participate regularly in the American economy? America first isn’t going to care much for expats. 

And the rest of the world is tied to its neighbors politics since they share borders. The world is a quagmire. 

2 hours ago, TexArcher said:

Fuck you, dude.  You people (that's right) don't get to destroy this country and then tell everybody else to quit bitching about it.

The thread title was pretty clear.  If that's not what you want to see, then read some other thread.

4 minutes ago, Mdhorn said:

Universities, national parks, education and hospitals are getting hit no matter where you are. 

One major roadblock for leaving the country, say with a US bank account, SS, or as my wife has—retirement for career teaching, is simply that the govt could just pull the plug on any of it. Contracts mean nothing now. And if you live overseas, what’s to prevent the government from stating they no longer view expats as Americans, since they no longer participate regularly in the American economy? America first isn’t going to care much for expats. 

And the rest of the world is tied to its neighbors politics since they share borders. The world is a quagmire. 

I do think this is a legit concern, especially if more left leaning people retire outside of the US. Whatever iteration of MAGAs are in charge at the time could make SS more solvent and claim the money should go to people who will spend it in the US to boost the economy. 

Two birds, one stone. Of course, liberal tears is the real goal but they have to dog whistle that part.

why should we leave, they're the ones who suck?!

5 hours ago, Incredulity said:

I tell you what this board needed...the fiftieth version of, "I'm out, headed for Canada...HoW Do iT DO i ??!!?!?!?!!??111"  

 

Do it, or don't .   But for the love of God stop with the fucking idiotic drivel about it.  

I had the discussion with some MAGA moron who swore up and down that MAGA would prevent the demographic collapse that SK and Japan are currently experiencing, as if Japan has not had kid bribing since the 1990s and better family planning policies as well

The US was the premier power on one thing alone, soft power, that has essentially evaporated. What is left is the slow decline, if we are lucky a easter roman empire is the absolute best case scenario, over a west roman empire dissolvement.

2 minutes ago, linux said:

The US was the premier power on one thing alone, soft power

LOL

If you want say it was due one thing, this is the one thing.

Get out and see the world, you will discover that the US is simultaneously not so great and not so bad. This thread should be renamed "rich people problems". 

Imo, one of the the most important things is to start traveling internationally with them, to as many different places as possible. When you do, try to be as local as possible. They'll get a worldly perspective that will serve them well. 

1 minute ago, seven said:

Get out and see the world, you will discover that the US is simultaneously not so great and not so bad. This thread should be renamed "rich people problems". 

Yeeeaaaaahhhhh.........for you

Just now, Thatguy said:

Yeeeaaaaahhhhh.........for you

Valid criticism! 

Before you know it midterm elections will be here, and if Dems are successful in the House all of the bitching and crying is done. If your kids aren’t teenagers now, they won’t remember most of this shit.

Or just go to Mexico. It’s easy. Go literally anywhere. Nobody is stopping you. Abandon any family you have and bang whores in SE Asia like every Aussie, Brit, and Russian with a passport.

Edited May 29, 20251 yr by StassneyHorn

32 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

LOL

If you want say it was due one thing, this is the one thing.

No, and slightly less, the informal agreement where the US pledged to destroy piracy and guarantee global shipping IS soft power but that is dead and gone after Trump .

But no hard power is irrelevant see how those carriers did in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan, all lost wars.

Also China's navy is now bigger numbers wise than the USN and will probably lead it 2:1 before I croak, tonnage is smaller but thanks to advancement in electronics and automation smaller ships are a GOOD thing. 

They have dedicated drone carriers now. sheesh thanks Trump.

Good news bad news, kids… bad news is we’re moving out of the country to the UK, good news is no more visits to the dentist. 

19 minutes ago, linux said:

 

Also China's navy is now bigger numbers wise than the USN and will probably lead it 2:1 before I croak, tonnage is smaller but thanks to advancement in electronics and automation smaller ships are a GOOD thing. 

 

China's 2:1 ships ratio is like comparing Aggie's enrollment numbers to Stanford.   Sure, more Aggies but a considerably higher number of morons.

1 hour ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

why should we leave, they're the ones who suck?!

I'm grateful for all the constructive comments I've gotten, but this was never meant to be a "fuck this, I'm out, where we going?" thread. I'm well aware that we already have that on this forum. The extremely high likelihood is that I personally live out the rest of my days and kick the bucket right here in these United States.

Just now, tokamak said:

I'm grateful for all the constructive comments I've gotten, but this was never meant to be a "fuck this, I'm out, where we going?" thread. I'm well aware that we already have that on this forum. The extremely high likelihood is that I personally live out the rest of my days and kick the bucket right here in these United States.

For your kids, the key is to give them options.  And where that starts is to give them perspective.  Travel, but not just to the tourist highlight places.  Spend some time like a local, with locals.  My kids love to travel, and have lived in multiple countries....and both of them acknowledged early on that "every place has its own shit to deal with."  So, they need to get a realistic perspective.

Then, once they get perspective and realize that they can be mobile in this world, then they have the option of choosing mobility.  The easiest way to start with that (and it's often cost-effective for you, too) is to attend university outside the US.  There's a shitton of great options all over the world.  And if they do that, then they have more options to stay someplace, or to choose to come back to the US.  

Give them information and tools.  Give them options.  Then, because they'll be grown-ass adults of their own, let them choose their path.

Just now, Macanudo said:

China's 2:1 ships ratio is like comparing Aggie's enrollment numbers to Stanford.   Sure, more Aggies but a considerably higher number of morons.

They are doing really well right now like scary well, the PL-15E that downed a Rafale was a massive earthquake in defense spheres, the AIM-260 is the comparable US missile, this is still in development meanwhile the Chinese export version not only has a confirmed kill but also against a state of the art SPECTRA jamming avionics.

China is also about to pass the US in number of 5th gen fighters soon, and might beat the US in getting 6th gen ones ready.

Meanwhile the only thing that could cause them pause is a regional alliance with Japan and South Korea and here is Trump pissing them off on trade.

1 hour ago, Incredulity said:

LOL

If you want say it was due one thing, this is the one thing.

That shit doesn’t matter anymore unless the goal is to have an empire of ashes in a military escalation with China.  Everyone else is better persuaded with diplomacy or isolated as a pariah state.  
 

There’s a very good article in The Atlantic today about Ukrainian advances in drone tech and how that underscores the vast new frontier in war fighting.  I’m sure there’s still a place for carrier groups but it’s not going to look like it did even a couple of years ago.  They are just way too expensive and vulnerable to act as a command asset in contested battle spaces.  
 

That said, aren’t you MAGA?  It would be typical for one of the ‘Merica first myopics to overestimate our own martial capacity because you’ve been told falsely that we’re the biggest swinging dick on the planet and that China somehow ignored over 20 years of futility in trying to subdue a bunch of unemployed sheep herders.  

1 hour ago, linux said:

But no hard power is irrelevant see how those carriers did in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan, all lost wars

You think those wars were lost because we didn’t have the wherewithal to win?

 

lol

29 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

Everyone else is better persuaded with diplomacy or isolated as a pariah state

Limp dick appeasement does nothing but embolden bad actors.  Were you in a coma in 2022?