Water Softener thread of Obfuscation and Turbidity

[Damor 1246]

This seems to be one of those subjects which is difficult to effectively research online, as pretty much every site is pushing a product with religious fervor or is a 'review' site littered with referrals, and a lot of the 'user' reviews make some eye-rollingly subjective claims (Soft water will kill your children in their sleep!  Soft water cured my fibromyalgia!).  There also seem to be a lot of companies like Culligan who are gunning to get you on a service contract with cheap proprietary equipment (ADT model).

I have a reputable local guy (Tommy Dorsey) coming out next week, and I understand he pretty much sticks with low-maintenance Fleck salt systems.  In thinking about my ultimate goal, though, it's primarily to decrease scaling in appliances/fixtures (a clogged bidet orifice puts us back with the savages, after all).  I'm not particularly bothered by the other typical hard water complaints, and in fact I'd prefer that the taste of the water not get altered.  That got me looking at the non-salt systems like the Pelican, even though it kind of sounded like voodoo at first (and I'm a little wary of the direct sales route).  That said, we do have pretty hard water, and I see vague statements that non-salt systems aren't effective in those situations, though nobody provides any numbers.

Does anyone have any real-world experience with the difference between salt and non-salt systems? 

[GottaB 605]

no, I don't have comparative experience, but tommy dorsey's guy installed my system about 6 months ago.  I haven't noticed a change in taste of the water (salt only used to clean the resin when you aren't actually using the water as I understood it).  It's simple and inexpensive after the install.  Huge selling point for me.  

Edited September 7, 2018 by GottaB

[Sam Lin 3599]

One physically removes the minerals from the water. One doesn't. If your goal is to eliminate scale, you need to remove the minerals. Otherwise the water will still leave a mineral deposit anywhere it dries (faucet tip, water spots on counter, on your car, etc).

I don't remember what system we put in my mom's house, but the plumber preferred it because it was a simple mechanical timer, no electronic control panel and no sensing crap to break. His thought was if your usage is pretty consistent, then keep it simple for long-term ease of maintenance. The tradeoff is you're probably wasting more salt and water in regen than absolutely necessary.

[Dbeasy 15596]

We are moving to Leander and didn’t realize the water sucks ass. What do we do?

[immamac 44354]

A lot of people don't realize that there's a lot that can go wrong with water that requires softening or something else or both. 

I'm on a well system and there's a few ways to clean up your water pretty good, each has it's in drawbacks.

1) how much iron and manganese do you have? A filox or iron breaker or h202/ozonator/oxidizer will address a few of your core issues of scaling and build up by removing minerals that typically cause scaling and other things. 

2) how much calcium do you have? Calcium is what all traditional water softeners target it causes the most unwanted lime buildup and all that. 

3) how much bacteria and or chlorine and other chemicals do you have? This is where purification needs to happen. Depending on how hardcore you wanna get your oxidizer could handle sanitization, but you still need a great carbon filter or something to remove all the stuff. Another option is to get a filter system with an additional add on for a UV light to kill virus and bacteria.

 

So if you have all 3 problems you need 3 solutions. 

1) oxidize the water to get dissolved metals and other shit to get big "big enough" to filter out

2) soften the water and remove calcium by doing ion exchange or calcium specific filtering

3) clean your damn water with a good filter and any other type of non chemical disinfectant. 

 

If you have more money than God, just buy a huge RO it takes care of all of it but is also the least efficient.

[NeverMarryAStripper 22302]

I don't remember what system we put in my mom's house, but the plumber preferred it because it was a simple mechanical timer, no electronic control panel and no sensing crap to break. His thought was if your usage is pretty consistent, then keep it simple for long-term ease of maintenance. The tradeoff is you're probably wasting more salt and water in regen than absolutely necessary.

I put a Kinetico system in the last house I built. They’re mechanical and I really liked it.

[Dbeasy 15596]

I put a Kinetico system in the last house I built. They’re mechanical and I really liked it.

Does it do all three things listed above?

[NeverMarryAStripper 22302]

No, the whole house system was strictly a water softener.  We also put a separate reverse osmosis filter under the kitchen sink for the kitchen faucet. 

[BurntOrange&White 41866]

I’m looking at some water softener companies as well. So far I’m down to Kinetico, Culligan, Alamo Water Softeners, and Oasis

[milkman 428]

My company has installed a few of these.

https://www.aquasana.com/whole-house-water-filters/

[Jerry Callo 8960]

18 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

I’m looking at some water softener companies as well. So far I’m down to Kinetico, Culligan, Alamo Water Softeners, and Oasis

We put in a Kinetico quad system (softens and filters) in 2002.  Haven't had any issues.

[BurntOrange&White 41866]

5 hours ago, Jerry Callo said:

We put in a Kinetico quad system (softens and filters) in 2002.  Haven't had any issues.

Yeah I checked with a few more places the terms for the three we narrowed it down to are as follows:

Culligan:

$2578 w/ Install and taxes

Service Calls: $95

1-5-10 parts and labor

12 or 15 gal/min - Model Dependent

Resin/Carbon replacement every 6-10 years priced at $800 

Kinetico:

$3725 w/ Install & Taxes

Premier 2030 Model - Non Electric

Service Call: $70

10 year parts year warranty, 1 year labor

16 gal/min

Resin & Carbon replacement 7-10 years at $900

Hydroclear:

$3000 w/ install + taxes
Westinghouse Brand

Service Call: No Fee

Lifetime Warranty

13 gal/min

Resin & Carbon replacement every 10 years for free(Part of Lifetime Warranty offered).

 

Our house will be  pre-plumbed which basically gave us free install on all the above featured. All the above systems are metered systems so it will only refill when needed vs a set schedule.

Edited May 19, 2021 by BurntOrange&White

[Steel Shank 9556]

My neighbor and I installed this model ourselves. I could've done it without him, but he'd done it before and we knocked it out in 30 minutes. If you're going to be set up for it (plumbed), just get a buddy who's not an idiot and save yourselves some money. I replaced my RO myself. Also have the UV light. I maintain all the shit myself. No contracts.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Fleck-Whole-Softener-Grains-Loaded/dp/B010MR6T2I/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3C8TXY415S1UF&dchild=1&keywords=fleck+water+softener+5600sxt&qid=1621475540&sprefix=fleck+water+softener%2Caps%2C206&sr=8-1

Edited May 20, 2021 by Steel Shank
we are on a well, not city water