Dallas officer kills man after mistaking apartment for her own, police say

[rantanamo 143]

13 minutes ago, msudawg said:

It was a horrible accident. How much more profile has it been though due to her being a cop. and then there's the other component...the major driving one. 

Yes, she accidently decided to leave her training and police protocol at the door.  She accidently pulled the trigger.  Accidently forgot how to do cpr.  Accidently texted her married love during 911 call. Accidently erased texts.  The accidently part ended  the moment she claimed to have heard Jean before deciding to go in.  

[msudawg 371]

2 minutes ago, TXSooner518 said:

Alright, it's a wrap, thoughts?

OPENING LINES

Convicted of murder +170

Convicted of manslaughter +120

Acquitted +200

I fully believe it's manslaughter now that was put back as an option. the public pressure caused the overcharge. 

 

[TwiceHorn 31,470]

Just now, msudawg said:

I fully believe it's manslaughter now that was put back as an option. the public pressure caused the overcharge. 

 

It wasn't an overcharge.  I'd call it one if it was one, because it's the biggest problem in the CJ system today.

Manslaughter, in this case, will be jury nullification.  Not sure exactly of what, but it won't be strictly following the law.

[rantanamo 143]

1 minute ago, msudawg said:

I fully believe it's manslaughter now that was put back as an option. the public pressure caused the overcharge. 

 

It's been thoroughly explained why it wasn't an overcharge

[msudawg 371]

1 minute ago, rantanamo said:

It's been thoroughly explained why it wasn't an overcharge

Well i jumped in late. i intend to go back and read the last 15-20 pages this afternoon unless someone wants to point to a certain post on that subject. 

[TwiceHorn 31,470]

5 minutes ago, rantanamo said:

Yes, she accidently decided to leave her training and police protocol at the door.  She accidently pulled the trigger.  Accidently forgot how to do cpr.  Accidently texted her married love during 911 call. Accidently erased texts.  The accidently part ended  the moment she claimed to have heard Jean before deciding to go in.  

She appears to have a horrible temperament/psychology for a peace officer, despite an admitted 3500 hours of training.

*Accidentally.

[Fuck Tim Beck 3,816]

3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

She appears to have a horrible temperament/psychology for a peace officer, despite an admitted 3500 hours of training.

*Accidentally.

I'd be willing to bet her temperament/psychology is far more the the norm of cops today 

[TXSooner518 2,438]

8 minutes ago, msudawg said:

Well i jumped in late. i intend to go back and read the last 15-20 pages this afternoon unless someone wants to point to a certain post on that subject. 

Murder is intentionally causing the death of another. It doesn't require motive, premeditation, or anything else. When she pointed the gun at Jean and pulled the trigger, she explicitly testified her intent was to kill him. That's murder unless it is justified or excused by a defense.

I think manslaughter is the result as a compromise. The state did prove all of the elements of manslaughter so I don't think it is nullification, and I do think saying making an unreasonable intentional decision is reckless is legally defensible as a result. I also think most laypeople picture "murder" as something more than Texas law does.

[msudawg 371]

4 minutes ago, TXSooner518 said:

Murder is intentionally causing the death of another. It doesn't require motive, premeditation, or anything else. When she pointed the gun at Jean and pulled the trigger, she explicitly testified her intent was to kill him. That's murder unless it is justified or excused by a defense.

I think manslaughter is the result as a compromise. The state did prove all of the elements of manslaughter so I don't think it is nullification, and I do think saying making an unreasonable intentional decision is reckless is legally defensible as a result. I also think most laypeople picture "murder" as something more than Texas law does.

Thanks. I understand what you are saying. 

[gsoda3 3,261]

49 minutes ago, msudawg said:

Ah.. duh. Nope. wife works at six flags so i think of that being that term instead. 

 

does she let you skip to the front of the line?

 

jk i thought it was six flags too.

[HRSchenker 2,268]

How long do yall think it will take for the jury to reach a verdict? 

[C-Man 27,227]

2 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

A guilty verdict on manslaughter would keep her from ever being a law enforcement officer again, right?

I would like to think killing an innocent man in his own home because you're too reckless -- or too stupid -- to know better should keep her from working in law enforcement ever again. I know that's naive, wishful thinking.

[TwiceHorn 31,470]

I might assume any felony conviction would disqualify as a police officer.  Probably any crime of moral turpitude, as well, felony or not.

[Orange&White 5,528]

Maybe she could get a job as a maintenance worker at the apartment complex she murdered Jean? Then someone could "accidentally" go to the wrong apartment and shoot her in the face.

[hayden_horn 11,362]

i actually think that now that manslaughter is on the table, that's what the jury will find. it's an easy jury room compromise, i would reckon.

i honestly don't think anyone could argue that she was within any sort of right to do what she did. but some might find 1st degree murder difficult to countenance, given the situation.

once she admitted she heard jean moving around inside, though, and decided to enter, she lost any sort of sympathy from me. that's stone cold murder. she wanted to catch the person in her home, and shoot that person. maybe for department cred, or to be a hero cop, but she opened that door gun drawn, imo.

[tokamak 6,430]

8 minutes ago, Orange&White said:

Maybe she could get a job as a maintenance worker at the apartment complex she murdered Jean? Then someone could "accidentally" go to the wrong apartment and shoot her in the face.

Hard to hit a target that small

[TXSooner518 2,438]

1 minute ago, tokamak said:

Hard to hit a target that small

Officer Rivera did it on the reg.

[BigDHornfan 6,548]

4 minutes ago, TXSooner518 said:

Officer Rivera did it on the reg.

Sex Cop.  thought we covered this.   

[Trey3216 15,346]

9 minutes ago, tokamak said:

Hard to hit a target that small

Hopefully she doesn't start throwing hats at people once her weapon is taken away.  

[PilotsError 2,287]

...

[kevwun 15,788]

That doesn't mean much.  A good and fair Judge will be liked and endorsed by defense attorneys, cops and prosecutors.

[DallasHorn26 586]

I've never followed a murder trial this close, but it seems like they usually take longer or is a week normal? Also, how much attention would this be getting if she had been a teacher, nurse, etc instead of a cop?

[Gene Parmesan 4,007]

Just now, DallasHorn26 said:

I've never followed a murder trial this close, but it seems like they usually take longer or is a week normal? Also, how much attention would this be getting if she had been a teacher, nurse, etc instead of a cop?

This one was quick because it's not a who did it case.  Who killed the victim was already established.

[bluto 4,929]

This isn’t a typical murder, the defendant admitted to murdering a person

[DallasHorn26 586]

1 minute ago, Gene Parmesan said:

This one was quick because it's not a who did it case.  Who killed the victim was already established.

 

1 minute ago, bluto said:

This isn’t a typical murder, the defendant admitted to murdering a person

Got ya. Yeah, I didn't think of it from that angle. 

[kevwun 15,788]

The ones I have seen locally have also been under a week. 

[hopkinsnhorns 533]

46 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

i actually think that now that manslaughter is on the table, that's what the jury will find. it's an easy jury room compromise, i would reckon.

i honestly don't think anyone could argue that she was within any sort of right to do what she did. but some might find 1st degree murder difficult to countenance, given the situation.

once she admitted she heard jean moving around inside, though, and decided to enter, she lost any sort of sympathy from me. that's stone cold murder. she wanted to catch the person in her home, and shoot that person. maybe for department cred, or to be a hero cop, but she opened that door gun drawn, imo.

I'm right there with you.  This is not the ticker-tape parade she envisioned in her head before she decided to barge in and kill her "burglar".

[Ellellelle 308]

I know she probably thought she would be a hero in the moment, but I really can't wrap my head around the reasoning. I think if I were a cop I would take so much pleasure in watching an intruder in my home squirm in a courtroom before being found guilty. Capturing a criminal dumb enough to break into a cops home would bring her a lot of acclaim. Not to mention, she risked getting blood all over everything she owns.

[immortal13 4,059]

I'm starting to wonder if she really did know that wasn't her apartment 

[TXSooner518 2,438]

I think her pure panic after is too good to be faked. She in the moment wrote a check that her ass couldn’t cash.

[DaysOff 7,951]

So I guess just look for this thread to be bumped when there's a verdict? I don't Twitter or live in Dallas.

[Red Six 131]

10 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

I'm starting to wonder if she really did know that wasn't her apartment 

I've wondered that myself.

My bizarre theory of late has been that Rivera was about to dump her, and she did it to win back his affection.

Like the firefighters who spark forest fires.

Or pervy tow truck drivers who throw rocks.

[Steel Shank 9,425]

Sorry I missed it, but the other cop she was sexting is married?

[hopkinsnhorns 533]

yes

['stache 21,815]

She was looking to fuck someones world up when she thought someone was messing with her shit. If it was really her apartment and if he really was a burglar, she'd definitely get away with it, though it would still be a crime in my opinion. I truly think that if she walks its because of one or more racists on the jury who just don't give a shit about the victim.

[bluto 4,929]

I know captain obvious at this point, but just taking a step back and thinking about the stones of her skating on castle doctrine when she killed a guy in his own dwelling.... it is beyond absurd.

[hopkinsnhorns 533]

It could have just as easily been the maintenance man doing an emergency repair in her apartment and she still probably would have gotten off the hook.  Her mentality ensured that someone was leaving in a body bag, even if it wasn't her apartment to defend.  If she walks, then we need to go back and re-visit the Castle Doctrine and ensure that this sort of defense can never be used in these situations ever again.  It gives carte blanche to would-be murderers looking for the opportunity to put someone in a grave.

[TXSooner518 2,438]

I dunno, even if it really was her apartment, since the "intruder" entered while it was unoccupied, she needs some reasonable belief that deadly force is needed to stop a murder, agg assault, sex assault, or robbery. His mere presence isn't enough to trigger that (as it would be if an intruder entered with force while it was occupied). Given he had no weapon, and there was no other evidence, I think castle doctrine would have been very shaky even in her own apartment. 

[hopkinsnhorns 533]

I missed the live trial action this morning, but can one of our law dogs explain why the Judge instructed the jury that they could consider the Castle Doctrine defense?  It doesn't appear to be applicable given the actual circumstances of this murder.  Does this make it more likely for the verdict to stand on appeal?  There's got to be a good reason.  I just can't figure out what it is.

[RPM 26,321]

Camera just went live. Nothing happening, just showing State seal. Must be getting close.

[TXSooner518 2,438]

6 minutes ago, hopkinsnhorns said:

I missed the live trial action this morning, but can one of our law dogs explain why the Judge instructed the jury that they could consider the Castle Doctrine defense?  It doesn't appear to be applicable given the actual circumstances of this murder.  Does this make it more likely for the verdict to stand on appeal?  There's got to be a good reason.  I just can't figure out what it is.

My assumption is that they are saying that if her mistake of fact was that she was in her own residence, that that defense would then be available. Whether the facts of this case result in its application is up to the finder of fact (the jury). 

[bigup2dahorns 3,343]

I've never followed a murder trial this close, but it seems like they usually take longer or is a week normal? Also, how much attention would this be getting if she had been a teacher, nurse, etc instead of a cop?

I served on a jury for a murder trial in the very same building and it was exactly one week

[hookem17 485]

The livestream is focused on the Jury Call light outside of the jury room. That light will turn on when the jury reaches a decision or has a question.  

It’s kind of like waiting for the smoke to come out of the chimney at the Vatican. 

[TwiceHorn 31,470]

1 hour ago, Gene Parmesan said:

This one was quick because it's not a who did it case.  Who killed the victim was already established.

And there were no witnesses.

[Brisketexan 105,139]

Just now, TwiceHorn said:

And there were no witnesses.

Well, there was one.

But the shooter made damned sure that he bled out and died on the floor, instead of trying to save his life.

[El Diablo 4,232]

43 minutes ago, TXSooner518 said:

I dunno, even if it really was her apartment, since the "intruder" entered while it was unoccupied, she needs some reasonable belief that deadly force is needed to stop a murder, agg assault, sex assault, or robbery. His mere presence isn't enough to trigger that (as it would be if an intruder entered with force while it was occupied). Given he had no weapon, and there was no other evidence, I think castle doctrine would have been very shaky even in her own apartment. 

Ice cream spoon and dark skin. ARMED TO THE TEETH.

[bluto 4,929]

Dark skin in a dark room = cammo, so he was def out for blood!

[SDG 3,319]

How likely are we to get anything tonight?  

[bigup2dahorns 3,343]

How likely are we to get anything tonight?  

PM South Austin’s mom?

[SDG 3,319]

Lights flashing.