Dallas officer kills man after mistaking apartment for her own, police say

[El Diablo 4232]

10 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

I believe this 99.7% 

I don't know. There's a reason hunters have to wear that blaze orange. Buck fever is real. Sure, not exactly the same but still... dumbasses with guns have been known to blast buddies and strangers alike when there was venison on the brain.

[RPM 26323]

57 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Very old and strong am radio station out of Dallas. So old it’s before the W/K designations so it’s one of the few western stations with a W. On a nice night, that signal can reach a long way.  Some of you guys should dial in 820 and see if you can get it. 

They're 50,000 watt clear channel. You can hear them pretty much nationwide. Back in the old days they shared the frequency with WFAA and would swap frequencies twice a day ringing a cowbell so the listener would know they were changing. When they ended the swap, WBAP kept the cowbell and would ring it at the top of the hour. Don't know if they still do that.

[hookem17 485]

5 minutes ago, El Diablo said:

I don't know. There's a reason hunters have to wear that blaze orange. Buck fever is real. Sure, not exactly the same but still... dumbasses with guns have been known to blast buddies and strangers alike when there was venison on the brain.

[Deej 76834]

She should have claimed she downed some Starfuckers and thought she shot a deer.

[4th and 5 4914]

2 hours ago, msudawg said:

Possibility defense might go for making it a crime of sudden passion, knocks down to 2nd degree felony and 2-20.

 

 

Here's the law on that.

Sec. 19.02. MURDER. (a) In this section:

(1) "Adequate cause" means cause that would commonly produce a degree of anger, rage, resentment, or terror in a person of ordinary temper, sufficient to render the mind incapable of cool reflection.

(2) "Sudden passion" means passion directly caused by and arising out of provocation by the individual killed or another acting with the person killed which passion arises at the time of the offense and is not solely the result of former provocation.

(b) ...

(c) Except as provided by Subsection (d), an offense under this section is a felony of the first degree.

(d) At the punishment stage of a trial, the defendant may raise the issue as to whether he caused the death under the immediate influence of sudden passion arising from an adequate cause. If the defendant proves the issue in the affirmative by a preponderance of the evidence, the offense is a felony of the second degree.

 

I don't see it mattering much, because I don't think anything over 20 is in range.

And let me add: I don't see the "provocation" element here. Certainly the terror. But no provocation.

But she'll get the charge to prevent reversible error.

 

2 hours ago, bigup2dahorns said:

 

 

I was gong to post this earlier but I have been busy today raking LE over the coals:

The state is going to have her bond raised because she is now convicted, and as such is a flight risk, and is guaranteed of a prison sentence, and she is not entitled to bond pending appeal.

And that is exactly what they did......the judge found the existing bond insufficient, so prison time starts today

 

52 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

That raises an interesting point.  I don't know if we ever figured out whether the jury was instructed to judge her actions as a reasonable ordinary person, or a reasonable person with 3500 hours of law enforcement training.

It is the reasonable belief as defined by statute TPC 1.07 (42). Jury charge elements and definitions come straight out of the Penal Code

(42) "Reasonable belief" means a belief that would be held by an ordinary and prudent man in the same circumstances as the actor.

Edited October 2, 2019 by 4th and 5

[TwiceHorn 31498]

I was reminded that the Balch Springs cop, who shot a teenager in a car driving away with a rifle, got 15 years.

That strikes me as more craven than this.  But it won't be offered as a comparator.  A juror might remember it though.

[Trey3216 15347]

1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

I was reminded that the Balch Springs cop, who shot a teenager in a car driving away with a rifle, got 15 years.

That strikes me as more craven than this.  But it won't be offered as a comparator.  A juror might remember it though.

Most of our electorate can’t remember 15 minutes ago 

[TwiceHorn 31498]

2 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

Most of our electorate can’t remember 15 minutes ago 

Somehow or other jurors seem to reach fairly similar verdicts considering there are no guidelines.

And, although jurors come from the same places as the electorate, I tend to think they're on their best civic behavior most of the time.

Edited October 2, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[SameSame 1705]

1 hour ago, immortal13 said:

Are you saying women shouldn't be cops

I'm going with some

 

[Trey3216 15347]

18 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Somehow or other jurors seem to reach fairly similar verdicts considering there are no guidelines.

And, although jurors come from the same places as the electorate, I tend to think they're on their best civic behavior most of the time.

No doubt. I’m just being honest about our awareness as a whole these days.  Our “electorate”, or those eligible to vote, are not collectively to be trusted for things of this nature. Those that are weeded our and don’t shirk their time are to be commended.  I still don’t expect even 40% of them to remember that case.   Likely why they were picked on the jury.  

[Newdoc 3448]

1 hour ago, 'stache said:

Is this the "Best Choice" version of The Onion? Not really even satire, just stupid.

Satire -“ In fiction and less frequently in non-fiction, satire is a genre of literature and performing arts, in which vices, follies, abuses, and shortcomings are held up to ridicule, ideally with the intent of shaming individuals, corporations, government, or society itself into improvement.”

Despite your opinion, it fits the definition of satire.

[Jim Tom Pinch 120]

1 hour ago, immortal13 said:

Are you saying women shouldn't be cops

I’m saying a guy reacts differently in that situation than a woman.

[drt 640]

Well unfortunately there are a whole shitload of examples to the contrary where dudes with guns made shitty decisions and people died. But thanks for trying. 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

One of the other things with regards to uniforms; if they require them to change into and out of uniform at the station they have to pay them for that time. So adding an extra ten minutes to each end of the shift (which would pay time and a half) would be a significant expense for the police department. Much more than purchasing the officer's duty weapon.

[Fuck Tim Beck 3834]

3 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Very old and strong am radio station out of Dallas. So old it’s before the W/K designations so it’s one of the few western stations with a W. On a nice night, that signal can reach a long way.  Some of you guys should dial in 820 and see if you can get it. 

Yep. Growing up in the Temple area in the early to mid 80's, my old man listed to this station constantly. They were pretty funny back then. 

[Lhorn 4916]

2 hours ago, Jim Tom Pinch said:

If Amber Guyger was a guy, Botham Jean is still alive.

A guy doesn’t panic and start blasting away in this situation.

A guy doesn’t forget where he lives either.

A friend of mine here in Ca, asked me what I thought about this case a few days ago.  I made this same, un-pc statement.  Not 100%, but his odds would have been much better.  Part of her panic stems from the fact that she is physically smaller, weaker than most young men she confronts on the job.  Self preservation pushes her to grab the gun instead of thinking "if push comes to shove, I can take this guy [hand to hand]."  Doesn't mean that women shouldn't be cops, just means they ought to make sure they're in the right apartment.  

Edited October 2, 2019 by Lhorn

[Pato del Muerto 52528]

50 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

One of the other things with regards to uniforms; if they require them to change into and out of uniform at the station they have to pay them for that time. So adding an extra ten minutes to each end of the shift (which would pay time and a half) would be a significant expense for the police department. Much more than purchasing the officer's duty weapon.

Uh no. They would just head to the locker room 10 minutes before their shift is up. 

It feels like people are telling me that current procedure is cops get dressed at home, get in their cruiser, drive around for 10 hours, then go home. Are there not reports and end of shift briefings that get done at the stations?

[rantanamo 143]

Guy cops don't need to panic. They get rage and gun happy.  We just had a cop kill a kid in a car driving away.  Plenty of video evidence of dude cops fucking up.  I have no doubt if it was a side instead, he kills Bo and gets away with it.

[Jim Tom Pinch 120]

A guy wouldn’t forget where his apartment is. 

[rantanamo 143]

42 minutes ago, Jim Tom Pinch said:

A guy wouldn’t forget where his apartment is. 

The testimony from this case says otherwise.

[DigglerontheHoof 21203]

12 hours ago, SameSame said:

Holee S you want to hear what a lot of your white Dallas brethren think about it.  Flip over to wbap.  I flipped over on my drive home and it was one racist caller after another.  Including the host, he is the worst.  They did everything except call all the blacks in Dallas stupid niggers.    And I only say that, because trust me they were close.

80% of the callers were probably cops. 

[texanbychoice 354]

Uh no. They would just head to the locker room 10 minutes before their shift is up. 
It feels like people are telling me that current procedure is cops get dressed at home, get in their cruiser, drive around for 10 hours, then go home. Are there not reports and end of shift briefings that get done at the stations?

As I understand it is mostly like this:

[Mojo Hand 4580]

Racist texts introduced by prosecution for sentencing:

"But after a jury convicted Amber Guyger, 31, of murder on Tuesday, prosecutors introduced text messages sent by the former officer that show her making offensive statements. In the texts, Guyger jokes about Martin Luther King Jr.’s death, mocks her black colleagues and discusses a dog that her friend warns “may be racist.”

“It’s okay.. I’m the same,” Guyger wrote back about the dog, just days before she fatally shot 26-year-old Botham Jean in his Dallas apartment on Sept. 6, 2018. One minute later, she texted again: “I hate everything and everyone but y’all.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/10/02/amber-guyger-offensive-texts-botham-jean-murder/

Edited October 2, 2019 by Mojo Hand

[Orange&White 5528]

Back when all of this went down, she was terminated by DPD on the day she was arrested. 

Was there ever a specific mention of what she was terminated for?

[hornian 5219]

2 minutes ago, Orange&White said:

Back when all of this went down, she was terminated by DPD on the day she was arrested. 

Was there ever a specific mention of what she was terminated for?

Was shooting an unarmed man in his own home not cause for termination?

[Bama Chick 28596]

The testimony from this case says otherwise.

The earlier posts in this thread say otherwise.

There were a not insignificant number of men posting in this thread about how they have done the same type of thing or could see themselves doing it.

[HOOKEM4 5038]

Nevermind, starts at 9:30am

Edited October 2, 2019 by HOOKEM4

[77horn 216]

21 minutes ago, hornian said:

Was shooting an unarmed man in his own home not cause for termination?

Maybe she didn't make her quota?

[PilotsError 2296]

Let's not forget that Martin Rivera shot and killed an unarmed man in 2007, Brandon Washington.  I believe Amber probably begged him for details of it while they fucked, and what she had most on her mind when she chose to enter the apartment was not arresting a burglar, but killing someone (she just naturally assumed she could get away with it) and then her and Rivera fucking their brains out and having this great thing to share.  We know from her posts she was ON THE FUCKING EDGE man to kill someone.  I bet her pussy got so wet when Sex Cop told her what it was like to draw and shoot fucking lead man into another person.  She needed that rush to share with her lover.

[Gene Parmesan 4008]

3 minutes ago, PilotsError said:

Let's not forget that Martin Rivera shot and killed an unarmed man in 2007, Brandon Washington.  I believe Amber probably begged him for details of it while they fucked, and what she had most on her mind when she chose to enter the apartment was not arresting a burglar, but killing someone (she just naturally assumed she could get away with it) and then her and Rivera fucking their brains out and having this great thing to share.  We know from her posts she was ON THE FUCKING EDGE man to kill someone.  I bet her pussy got so wet when Sex Cop told her what it was like to draw and shoot fucking lead man into another person.  She needed that rush to share with her lover.

You should try writing some erotica. 

[Gooby 640]

38 minutes ago, Orange&White said:

Back when all of this went down, she was terminated by DPD on the day she was arrested. 

Was there ever a specific mention of what she was terminated for?

The shooting was on September 6.  She was terminated on September 24 following an IA investigation that found she "engaged in adverse conduct" when she shot Jean.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/death-innocent-man-timeline-wrong-apartment-murder-trial/story?id=65938727

Edited October 2, 2019 by Gooby

[SDG 3319]

6 minutes ago, PilotsError said:

Let's not forget that Martin Rivera shot and killed an unarmed man in 2007, Brandon Washington.  I believe Amber probably begged him for details of it while they fucked, and what she had most on her mind when she chose to enter the apartment was not arresting a burglar, but killing someone (she just naturally assumed she could get away with it) and then her and Rivera fucking their brains out and having this great thing to share.  We know from her posts she was ON THE FUCKING EDGE man to kill someone.  I bet her pussy got so wet when Sex Cop told her what it was like to draw and shoot fucking lead man into another person.  She needed that rush to share with her lover.

She has previously shot someone as well.  

[PilotsError 2296]

yeah but i don't think he died.

[DaysOff 7951]

Let's not forget that Martin Rivera shot and killed an unarmed man in 2007, Brandon Washington.  I believe Amber probably begged him for details of it while they fucked, and what she had most on her mind when she chose to enter the apartment was not arresting a burglar, but killing someone (she just naturally assumed she could get away with it) and then her and Rivera fucking their brains out and having this great thing to share.  We know from her posts she was ON THE FUCKING EDGE man to kill someone.  I bet her pussy got so wet when Sex Cop told her what it was like to draw and shoot fucking lead man into another person.  She needed that rush to share with her lover.

Have you been watching Mindhunter? Because that's what serial killers do.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

“People are so ungrateful,” Guyger commented under a post of a Minion character from "Despicable Me" with the text, “No one ever thanks me for having the patience not to kill them.”

[smuggs 9353]

8 minutes ago, PilotsError said:

yeah but i don't think he died.

She previously shot someone? Was this mentioned in the trial because I missed it.

[Orange&White 5528]

2 minutes ago, smuggs said:

She previously shot someone? Was this mentioned in the trial because I missed it.

It was not mentioned int he trial.

The most I have seen was a mention that there was another shooting that she was "involved in". But nothing that concretely states that she pulled the trigger.

[Fuck Tim Beck 3834]

23 minutes ago, PilotsError said:

Let's not forget that Martin Rivera shot and killed an unarmed man in 2007, Brandon Washington.  I believe Amber probably begged him for details of it while they fucked, and what she had most on her mind when she chose to enter the apartment was not arresting a burglar, but killing someone (she just naturally assumed she could get away with it) and then her and Rivera fucking their brains out and having this great thing to share.  We know from her posts she was ON THE FUCKING EDGE man to kill someone.  I bet her pussy got so wet when Sex Cop told her what it was like to draw and shoot fucking lead man into another person.  She needed that rush to share with her lover.

And way back in this thread and elsewhere is the video of some cop somewhere commenting about the best sex you'll ever have is going home after killing someone. 

[hopkinsnhorns 533]

He’s not even a cop. Just some jagoff who leads cop training seminars that thinks all cops are warriors/superheroes and justified in using deadly force in almost any situation so long as they get home safe.

 

*his name is Dave Grossman. He was featured in a doc called Do Not Resist and there are several YouTube videos about the content of his Warrior Cop seminars.

[Underdog 28713]

39 minutes ago, PilotsError said:

Let's not forget that Martin Rivera shot and killed an unarmed man in 2007, Brandon Washington.  I believe Amber probably begged him for details of it while they fucked, and what she had most on her mind when she chose to enter the apartment was not arresting a burglar, but killing someone (she just naturally assumed she could get away with it) and then her and Rivera fucking their brains out and having this great thing to share.  We know from her posts she was ON THE FUCKING EDGE man to kill someone.  I bet her pussy got so wet when Sex Cop told her what it was like to draw and shoot fucking lead man into another person.  She needed that rush to share with her lover.

[TwiceHorn 31498]

11 minutes ago, hopkinsnhorns said:

He’s not even a cop. Just some jagoff who leads cop training seminars that thinks all cops are warriors/superheroes and justified in using deadly force in almost any situation so long as they get home safe.

LTCOL Dave Grossman.  https://www.killology.com/bio

Lieutenant.  Colonel.  It's very important that you note that he was a  field grade officer.

Killology.

Oh JFC, he has an M.Ed. from UT.

In the Army for 24 years, no CIB.

Edited October 2, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[irishtexan 11521]

Could the fact that she previously shot someone be evidence of her likelihood of doing this again? If she "didn't learn" the first time, why should we believe she won't do this again? 

I would like to know the percentage of police officers that fire their service weapon/shoot someone/kill someone. I thought it was very rare for an officer to even fire their weapon over the course of a career. Yet this cop has shot two people, killing one? And she's fucking another cop who killed someone? This whole thing is fucking insane.

[hopkinsnhorns 533]

State is not challenging the sudden passion.  Jury could lower this to a 2nd degree felony.

[HOOKEM4 5038]

Wait, does she still have a chance of only getting probation??? 

[hopkinsnhorns 533]

I don't believe so.  If the Jury accepts the Sudden Passion modifier, then the sentencing can be from 2-20 years.  Just because the State isn't challenging that doesn't mean that the jury will have to accept that.

[Ellellelle 314]

What is sudden passion? I'm not brazen enough to search at work.

[Orange&White 5528]

I would be shocked if this jury that found her guilty of murder and saw all of those texts yesterday accept that it was "sudden passion".

[hopkinsnhorns 533]

12 hours ago, 4th and 5 said:

Here's the law on that.

Sec. 19.02. MURDER. (a) In this section:

(1) "Adequate cause" means cause that would commonly produce a degree of anger, rage, resentment, or terror in a person of ordinary temper, sufficient to render the mind incapable of cool reflection.

(2) "Sudden passion" means passion directly caused by and arising out of provocation by the individual killed or another acting with the person killed which passion arises at the time of the offense and is not solely the result of former provocation.

(b) ...

(c) Except as provided by Subsection (d), an offense under this section is a felony of the first degree.

(d) At the punishment stage of a trial, the defendant may raise the issue as to whether he caused the death under the immediate influence of sudden passion arising from an adequate cause. If the defendant proves the issue in the affirmative by a preponderance of the evidence, the offense is a felony of the second degree.

 

I don't see it mattering much, because I don't think anything over 20 is in range.

And let me add: I don't see the "provocation" element here. Certainly the terror. But no provocation.

But she'll get the charge to prevent reversible error.

 

 

I was gong to post this earlier but I have been busy today raking LE over the coals:

The state is going to have her bond raised because she is now convicted, and as such is a flight risk, and is guaranteed of a prison sentence, and she is not entitled to bond pending appeal.

And that is exactly what they did......the judge found the existing bond insufficient, so prison time starts today

 

It is the reasonable belief as defined by statute TPC 1.07 (42). Jury charge elements and definitions come straight out of the Penal Code

(42) "Reasonable belief" means a belief that would be held by an ordinary and prudent man in the same circumstances as the actor.

See above for Sudden Passion

[Gooby 640]

She was apparently in leg irons this morning.  The defense said they felt she should have them removed and the prosecution did not object

[TXSooner518 2438]

I think there is a reasonable argument for "sudden passion" which kind of goes to the overall circumstances and the quick (and bad) decision to use the force. 

She would still not be eligible for probation, but would be a 2nd degree felony, with a sentence range of 2-20. Same tight restrictions on parole.