Dallas officer kills man after mistaking apartment for her own, police say

[TwiceHorn 31,489]

27 minutes ago, Orange&White said:

Aren't there now witnesses now saying that the cop was banging on the door and yelling "Let Me In"?

If that is the case, that blows a gaping hole in her self defense argument. 

 

I'm not sure any of that is credible.  However, there was a bunch of stuff flying around early on, most of which was not credible and false, but some of which proved to be accurate (the video).  So possibly.

[Zepol87 9,188]

Well stay tuned. You may be able to do that and legally kill the resident.

Only if he is a cop

[miguelito 11,266]

and if he worked a 12 15 hour shift first.

[Gene Parmesan 4,007]

The witnesses supposedly didn't initially talk to police but recently came forward because they felt the story wasn't being told correctly.  Their account contradicts the door ajar statements because they heard knocking and someone yelling "let me in."  Yelling "let me in" to a supposed intruder in your apartment makes no sense, so who knows.

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

The witnesses supposedly didn't initially talk to police but recently came forward because they felt the story wasn't being told correctly.  Their account contradicts the door ajar statements because they heard knocking and someone yelling "let me in."  Yelling "let me in" to a supposed intruder in your apartment makes no sense, so who knows.

Didn’t come forward to police but to Jean family’s attorney. 

[FondrenRoad 4,378]

24 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

The witnesses supposedly didn't initially talk to police but recently came forward because they felt the story wasn't being told correctly.  Their account contradicts the door ajar statements because they heard knocking and someone yelling "let me in."  Yelling "let me in" to a supposed intruder in your apartment makes no sense, so who knows.

Isnt there hallway video?  The let me in doesnt have to be her. After shots are fired, anyone outside in the whole building would be scrambling to get behind the safety of a door.

Or she could have just been frustrated and screaming at the door for not accepting her key. She did just work a 35 hour shift. 

[bernorange 8,362]

1 minute ago, FondrenRoad said:

.. She did just work a 35 hour shift. 

Look, this is no joke.  When you've just worked a 53 hour shift, you are fucking tired, man.

[PilotsError 2,287]

It was a 65 hour shift, in FULL UNIFORM.  

[Gene Parmesan 4,007]

And she had to walk to and from work uphill both ways.

[Guest Lobo]

When that L.A. cop told the Dude they had them working in shifts, this is what he meant.

[PilotsError 2,287]

 

Dallas police officer Amber Guyger shot Bothem Jean after a series of noise complaints against him.

Dallas police officer Amber Guyger was described as a "security guard" in a dispatch call to firefighters in the moments after she shot Bothem Jean in his own apartment even though she was in full police uniform.

That revelation, which can be heard in the above video, may explain the noise complaints that came from Guyger's apartment about Jean's apartment above, including a complaint made on the day of the shooting, a detail brought to light Monday by an attorney for the victim's family.

And it may also explain the contentious exchange overheard by two sisters who live in a nearby apartment at the time of the shooting.

"Let me in, let me in," demanded a female voice while pounding on a door, followed by the sounds of gunshots.

"Oh my God, why did you do that?" a man's voice then said, probably Jean's final words.

And it would also explain why police have issued so many versions of the story, none of them adding up or making sense, all of them contradicting each other, blaming Jean in one way or another for his death.

In other words, it's beginning to look like Guyger had taken on the role of an overzealous security guard at her apartment complex, shooting and killing Jean over whatever noise he may or may not have been making in the apartment above her.

As far-fetched as that may sound, it's much more plausible than the three versions police have told us so far.

Police said that Guyger was returning home after working 12 to 15 hours, a number that increases with each revision to make us believe she was exhausted from keeping the public safe from evildoers.

But she also lives within walking distance of the police department, so it's not implausible for her to have been at home at any time during her shift.

All three versions state that Guyger killed Jean after returning home from work and confusing his fourth-floor apartment with her third-floor apartment, then confusing him for a burglar, which made her fear for her life.

The first version claimed she inserted her key in the keyhole but the door would not open, so he placed the items she was carrying down to continue struggling with the door, drawing Jean's attention inside, who opened the door and startled her, which was why she shot him.

But that version began falling apart when a photo surfaced showing a big, bright red doormat in front of his apartment when she had no such doormat in front of her apartment, which should have been an indicator she was at the wrong door.

Videos also surfaced showing residents from that complex opening doors with fob keys, which turn green or red depending on whether they are the right key or not, similar to a hotel room card key, so there was no need for her to struggle with the door because she would have immediately known she was at the wrong door.

The second version claimed that Jean had left the door unlocked, which was how Guyger was able to walk into the darkened apartment and see a silhouette of a man who refused to show her his hands, which she somehow was able to determine even though she was unable to determine she was in the wrong apartment.

But when Jean's family said he would never leave his door unlocked because he was very meticulous and orderly, they came out with the third version, claiming that Jean left the door ajar, enabling Guyger to walk into the darkened apartment, which was when she was startled by a silhouette of a man who refused her verbal commands, whatever they may have been, which was why she shot him.

Besides the dubious claim she could not tell she was in the wrong apartment after stepping inside it, the second and third claims are also dubious because the doors of those apartments are designed to close and lock automatically.

So it is highly unlikely Jean had left the door open or ajar. He would have had to have done it on purpose. And that is something most people won't do. Especially somebody as orderly and meticulous as Jean.

But considering the third version comes from the affidavit of the manslaughter charge against Guyger, it is the official version for now, even though it reads as if it was written by Guyger herself.

But that may change now that police have decided to interview witnesses other than Guyger, including the ones that overheard the conversation outside their door.

The affidavit also states that Guyger mistakenly drove up to the fourth floor parking level instead of the third floor parking level where she was supposed to park because the parking floors are supposed to correspond with the residential floors.

But a resident of the complex said that most spaces are first come, first serve with only a handful of reserved spots, which means she could be parking on any floor at any time and it should not cause her to enter the wrong apartment.

Police have been saying she was tired from working so many hours, which is why she parked in the wrong spot and why she entered the wrong apartment and why she couldn't tell she was in the wrong apartment even after walking inside.

But she was alert enough to shoot Guyger in the dark, striking him once in the chest.

And if it's true she was working so many hours, it's likely she was doing so willingly to milk the overtime as so many cops like to do.

And living a block away is convenient in case she needs a quick nap.

And that may explain the noise complaints because for all we know, she is a control freak who can't stand the sound of somebody walking in the apartment above her while she's trying to nap during the day.

After all, it's much easier to believe she killed Jean in a fit of rage than it is to believe she killed him in a state of oblivion.

https://newsmaven.io/pinacnews/courtroom-files/dallas-cop-may-have-been-acting-as-security-guard-when-she-killed-botham-jean-pyk1Ljnz9kWauqbTLbUNeQ/

[Steel Shank 9,426]

Quote

may explain the noise complaints that came from Guyger's apartment about Jean's apartment above, including a complaint made on the day of the shooting, a detail brought to light Monday by an attorney for the victim's family.

OK, here we go......

[Gene Parmesan 4,007]

The information is all over the place in this story.  So now there are noise complaints against him coming from her apartment the day of the shooting?

[JBJ 3,654]

1 hour ago, 4th and 5 said:

That is incorrect.

The act is causing the death of another (actus reus).

The culpable mental state is intentionally (mens rea).

Its easy to show this false: by that definition capital punishment, insanity, plug pulling, and self-defense are murder, but they are in fact not.

Intent is part of the act.

The mens rea is "malice aforethought" in common law.

[bernorange 8,362]

The documented noise complaints kind of destroys the whole "she didn't know him" assertion.  Even if she had never actually met the man before, she certainly had established an adversarial relationship with her upstairs neighbor.

['stache 21,817]

6 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

The information is all over the place in this story.  So now there are noise complaints against him coming from her apartment the day of the shooting?

Most of it is caused by police reports and official statements, which are clearly CYA.  The only false thing I've seen from the other side is that picture that made the rounds on social media that they were romantic.  Other than that, everything that pokes holes in the "official" story seems more likely that what the police are saying.

Also, do we still not know where his body was when help arrived?  Wouldn't it help at least clear up whether he opened the door and was shot (in which case she would have seen him clearly) or whether it was further into the apartment, which they are claiming was dark and she couldn't see him until after she shot?  That seems like an easy fact to establish.

[Steel Shank 9,426]

1 hour ago, 4th and 5 said:

That is incorrect.

The act is causing the death of another (actus reus).

The culpable mental state is intentionally (mens rea).

 

What about mons pubis?

[High Plains Drifter 11,050]

If the cops' story is that she was so tired from working so much, it sounds like the entire police system is at fault because they are working their cops to the point where they become dangerous to people inside their own apartments.

So, the solution to this happening again is no more overtime for cops.

I wonder how the police unions feel about that?

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

17 minutes ago, bernorange said:

The documented noise complaints kind of destroys the whole "she didn't know him" assertion.  Even if she had never actually met the man before, she certainly had established an adversarial relationship with her upstairs neighbor.

Shame that he couldn't understand the need for sleep after a 72 hour shift. 

[Red Six 131]

10 minutes ago, JBJ said:

Its easy to show this false: by that definition capital punishment, insanity, plug pulling, and self-defense are murder, but they are in fact not.

Intent is part of the act.

The mens rea is "malice aforethought" in common law.

J. F. C.

Murder in Texas is defined in the Texas Penal Code, not common law.

Mens reas in Texas are defined in the Texas Penal Code. They are generally Intentional, Knowing, Reckless, and Negligent.

Insanity is an affirmative defense. It doesn't expressly negate the mens rea of intent or knowledge, but it absolves the defendant of criminal liability. The person still commits murder.

Self-defense in Texas is a defense (not an affirmative defense, despite what your civil lawyer friends try to tell you) of confession and avoidance. The defendant admits to the relevant mens rea and actus reus, but, again, is absolved of criminal liability.

I am not going to dig through the Penal Code right now, but administering a capital sentence and pulling the plug are presumably protected acts either by defense or affirmative defense.

In sum, yes, in your examples, murder has been committed, but there is a legal excuse for commission.

[Ghost of LL 15,531]

10 hours ago, JBJ said:

I agree with much of the quoted portion, but your summary is, again, ignoring what mens rea is.

"Intentionally caused the death of a person" is not murder; it's only the actus reus.

Serious question--where did you go to law school?  Because you learned it waaaaay different than I did.

[High Plains Drifter 11,050]

This is what happened:

Cop works 800 hr shift, comes home to sleep in the middle of the day. Dude upstairs is walking around in boots making noise. She goes upstairs to confront him, banging on his door. He finally jerks open the door. OMG! A large black man. She shoots him in a panic.

Then she, other cops, and the attorney supplied by the police union come up with some cya  bullshit about it being the wrong apartment.

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

10 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

This is what happened:

Cop works 800 hr shift, comes home to sleep in the middle of the day. Dude upstairs is walking around in boots making noise. She goes upstairs to confront him, banging on his door. He finally jerks open the door. OMG! A large black man. She shoots him in a panic.

Then she, other cops, and the attorney supplied by the police union come up with some cya  bullshit about it being the wrong apartment.

You left out the part where he attacked her in a cocaine fueled rage.

['stache 21,817]

2 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

You left out the part where he attacked her in a cocaine fueled rage.

And had a gun hidden in his underwear.

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

Just now, 'stache said:

And had a gun hidden in his underwear.

Ayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyye!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Orange&White 5,528]

18 hours ago, South Austin said:

...since the night of the shooting incident, do you think the police officer has had sex?

I don't know the answer to that, but I suspect she's just about to get proper fucked.

[Hank Scorpio 17,729]

38 minutes ago, JBJ said:

Its easy to show this false: by that definition capital punishment, insanity, plug pulling, and self-defense are murder, but they are in fact not.

Intent is part of the act.

The mens rea is "malice aforethought" in common law.

Did you go to Hollywood Upstairs Law School?

[4th and 5 4,914]

38 minutes ago, JBJ said:

Its easy to show this false: by that definition capital punishment, insanity, plug pulling, and self-defense are murder, but they are in fact not.

Intent is part of the act.

The mens rea is "malice aforethought" in common law.

[4th and 5 4,914]

24 minutes ago, Red Six said:

J. F. C.

Murder in Texas is defined in the Texas Penal Code, not common law.

Mens reas in Texas are defined in the Texas Penal Code. They are generally Intentional, Knowing, Reckless, and Negligent.

Insanity is an affirmative defense. It doesn't expressly negate the mens rea of intent or knowledge, but it absolves the defendant of criminal liability. The person still commits murder.

Self-defense in Texas is a defense (not an affirmative defense, despite what your civil lawyer friends try to tell you) of confession and avoidance. The defendant admits to the relevant mens rea and actus reus, but, again, is absolved of criminal liability.

I am not going to dig through the Penal Code right now, but administering a capital sentence and pulling the plug are presumably protected acts either by defense or affirmative defense.

In sum, yes, in your examples, murder has been committed, but there is a legal excuse for commission.

Thanks for saving me the trouble, sometimes my compulsion to argue with idiots on the internet gets the best of me

[conVINCEd 21,469]

How was she home to call in a noise complaint when she was working a 12 13 15 hour shift?

[Shenanigans 31]

1 minute ago, conVINCEd said:

How was she home to call in a noise complaint when she was working a 12 13 15 hour shift?

Don't question the struggles of a hard-working public servant, citizen.

[BERT 4,362]

32 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

This is what happened:

Cop works 800 hr shift, comes home to sleep in the middle of the day. Dude upstairs is walking around in boots making noise. She goes upstairs to confront him, banging on his door. He finally jerks open the door. OMG! A large black man. She shoots him in a panic.

Then she, other cops, and the attorney supplied by the police union come up with some cya  bullshit about it being the wrong apartment.

Roger Murtaugh: [discussing a theory] That's pretty fucking thin.

Martin Riggs: That's very thin.

Roger Murtaugh: What the hell, thin's my middle name.

Martin Riggs: Your wife's cooking, I'm not surprised.

[fires his gun several more times]

Roger Murtaugh: What? What?

Martin Riggs: Nothin'.

Roger Murtaugh: Remarks like that will not get you invited to Christmas dinner.

Martin Riggs: My luck's changing for the better every day.

[DigDug 1,669]

Goes to show you, Don't hire midgets.

[Seasick Sailor 3,747]

She should have sprinkled some crack on him and got the hell out of there. 

[Ellellelle 311]

So she's shot someone else in the past? Does DPD have any responsibility for employing someone who is known to be trigger happy?

[Brisketexan 105,152]

1 minute ago, Ellellelle said:

So she's shot someone else in the past? Does DPD have any responsibility for employing someone who is known to be trigger happy?

So, you're thinking.....promotion time?

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

19 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

How was she home to call in a noise complaint when she was working a 12 13 15 hour shift?

You want to get shot? That's how you get shot.

[MrBig 5,412]

I want to see the footage from the elevator video camera and hallway cameras. Was she carrying so many bags that she clicked the button for the wrong floor? What does the area outside the elevator look like in the parking garage? Is each floor painted a different color, or do they all look the same? Everything about this story just raises more questions.

[Pato del Muerto 52,507]

12 minutes ago, Ellellelle said:

So she's shot someone else in the past? Does DPD have any responsibility for employing someone who is known to be trigger happy?

I’m sure the first time was deemed justified, so why would they care?  They are also severely understaffed apparently, with officers working shifts of extraordinary length to serve warrants and create revenue. 

[woohorn 1,131]

This is what happened:
Cop works 800 hr shift, comes home to sleep in the middle of the day. Dude upstairs is walking around in boots making noise. She goes upstairs to confront him, banging on his door. He finally jerks open the door. OMG! A large black man. She shoots him in a panic.
Then she, other cops, and the attorney supplied by the police union come up with some cya  bullshit about it being the wrong apartment.

That's some made up bullshit-

Dude lived BELOW her.

[Huckleberry 32,882]

4 minutes ago, woohorn said:

That's some made up bullshit-

Dude lived BELOW her.

Are third floors above fourth floors in your world? Every story has stated Jean lived on the 4th floor and Guyger lives on the 3rd floor.

[SameSame 1,704]

5 minutes ago, woohorn said:

That's some made up bullshit-

Dude lived BELOW her.

Well he died above her....wait are you saying they switched apartments and somebody was going back on the deal?   Just getting crazier

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

8 minutes ago, woohorn said:

That's some made up bullshit-

Dude lived BELOW her.

Maybe he WAS in the wrong apartment! REASONABLE DOUBT!!!

[Chewbacca 7,780]

Yeah, I think this bitch is going down for murder.  I think she got overzealous enforcing her own noise complaint (because she was REALLY tired) and shot her neighbor.

[AbeFroman 2,178]

16 minutes ago, MrBig said:

I want to see the footage from the elevator video camera and hallway cameras. Was she carrying so many bags that she clicked the button for the wrong floor? What does the area outside the elevator look like in the parking garage? Is each floor painted a different color, or do they all look the same? Everything about this story just raises more questions.

So many bags, crazy bags.  Women be shopping

[El Diablo 4,232]

26 minutes ago, MrBig said:

I want to see the footage from the elevator video camera and hallway cameras. Was she carrying so many bags that she clicked the button for the wrong floor? What does the area outside the elevator look like in the parking garage? Is each floor painted a different color, or do they all look the same? Everything about this story just raises more questions.

There were no bags, she went to his apartment with the intent of shutting him up one way or another. Sleep is serious bidness.

[Chewbacca 7,780]

I want to hear the 911 call.  Wonder when (if ever) they will release it.  Because if it's true that she identified herself as a security guard, her story is going to crumble really quickly.

[clapclapclap 9,000]

Sounds like (intentionally or not) DPD and the Rangers let her (actually her lawyer) paint herself into a corner.  If there actually was a noise complaint about his apartment from her's, regardless of whether it was the day of the shooting or from her (could have been a boyfriend or guest) she'll be easily convicted of manslaughter, and possibly see an upgraded charge to murder. 

Even if the noise complaint claim proves to be false, waiting several days to grant the interview (if that is what happened) is going to seed plenty of doubt and the assumption that she was forming a story rather than the truth.  So many elements now have to align to corroborate here story.  The way she framed her tale, the 911 call would be expected to show a huge change in tone and composure, since in her version it started before she became aware that she was in the wrong apartment.  It also places the body differently than some of the other rumors.  Based on those locks, I wonder how smart wired that apartment is?  Can some of those be analyzed and an exact timeline established for various usage?  Not just the lock, but lights, appliances.  Both their phone records.  Her phone probably traced her path the whole day, if they are allowed to carry it on duty.

Because the bottom line is that even in her story, she made a mistake, trespassed, and became trigger happy.  He is dead solely because of her mistakes and her initial illegal actions.  All the other claims about the door being unlocked and 'Failed to comply with commands' might provide rationale(excuses) for why she reacted and compounded her mistakes, but it doesn't change the fact that everything is a result of her illegally trespassing.  She didn't claim she was reacting to a distress call that could give her legal entry.  To most people that starts off with guilty, all the other stuff are just factors that might affect sentencing.  Or might not.

Completely different than most on-duty shooting situations.

Edited September 12, 2018 by clapclapclap

[bigup2dahorns 3,343]

Couple of points. In reference to her acting as a "security guard", that almost has to be factually incorrect. Apartments do employ security guards, but I don't believe she was one. I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere yet, but she could have been a "courtesy officer" for the apartment complex. This is very common around Dallas apartments. They give a break to DPD officers on the rent, and then market to their residents and prospective residents that they have a courtesy officer who lives onsite. The courtesy officer is sometimes available to respond quicker to incidents on the property and also may walk the property to help enforce the apartment rules (noise complaints, issues at the pool, dog violations etc). 

On the protocol for handling the post shooting, I just saw a former DPD higher-up postulate that it should have been treated as OIS, officer involved shooting. He claimed that because she did not change out of her DPD uniform, gave police commands, and acted in Dallas, that her actions should be viewed as an officer of Dallas police. So that should have set off a series of protocols on how to handle things, but clearly they (DPD, DA, Mayor, whoever) went a different direction.

[Chewbacca 7,780]

The 'failed to comply with commands' might be when she was pounding on the door to let her in and he wouldn't...