Dallas officer kills man after mistaking apartment for her own, police say

[Eternal Noob 29]

6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I imagine the evidence on that will stay a muddled mess.

What will NOT be a muddled mess will be her story, wherein she was confronted by a rage-filled, drug-fueled, giant black man, and she had no choice but to defend herself against the hulking, attacking monster.  If only he would have obeyed her lawful commands, he'd be alive today.

Are there some implying, as you seem to be, that she was not on the wrong floor by accident? I'm not asking for a re-hash, I'll go back and catch up on the thread if there's any discussion of that point. I'm just not interested in 2 days of back and forthing on the Bernard issue in general.

[bernorange 8348]

16 minutes ago, Eternal Noob said:

Are there some implying, as you seem to be, that she was not on the wrong floor by accident?...

Yes.  Details reported from Jeans family lawyer claim there was a noise complaint issued from Officer Guyger's apt during the day on the day of the shooting (when Officer Guyger was purportedly working).  The also claim witness testimony that Guyger shouted at Jean to open the door and when he did, she shot him.

[Deej 76542]

43 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

It was next to the angel dust-laced joint he'd been smoking, and near something that he was wielding as a weapon, leaving her no choice but to defend herself.

Don't forget the kiddie porn and two white girls he had tied up in his apartment.

[mdmost 42843]

Well I guess if he hadn't been stoned out of his mind, in his underwear, in his apartment, he would've been able to hear her "lawful commands" that he had to obey. See, it's technically not her fault. I mean he did drugs. 

[Brisketexan 104557]

3 minutes ago, Deej said:

Don't forget the kiddie porn and two white girls he had tied up in his apartment.

I don't think they can plant two white girls at this late date.

I definitely think they can plant some kiddie porn on his laptop.

[Deej 76542]

"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, the decedent was black and in possession of marijuana. The defense rests."

[Eternal Noob 29]

29 minutes ago, bernorange said:

Yes.  Details reported from Jeans family lawyer claim there was a noise complaint issued from Officer Guyger's apt during the day on the day of the shooting (when Officer Guyger was purportedly working).  The also claim witness testimony that Guyger shouted at Jean to open the door and when he did, she shot him.

Muchas gracias. I'll go back a few pages and catch up.

[rantanamo 143]

1 hour ago, bernorange said:

I remember reading one of the early reports mentioning that they did a blood draw before releasing her.  Not that that means anything.

So the excuse I read as to why she didn't notice the bright red floor mat is because she was carrying so many packages.  I would assume that means she didn't take the stairs from the parking garage if an elevator was available.

Still waiting to hear about the location of Jeans body.  Was it near the door or across the room? 

across the room.   So she shot him in the dark across the room.  Her night vision also includes being able to see him not obey commands.

[Brisketexan 104557]

1 minute ago, rantanamo said:

across the room.   So she shot him in the dark across the room.  Her night vision also includes being able to see him not obey commands.

Well, she "smelled the distinct odor of marijuana."  That WILL end up in the final story.  Count on it.

She was just doing her job, and she was lucky to make it home alive.  We should be thanking her for her service, not putting her on trial.

[Constant 6722]

You get so hyperbolic it’s ridiculous. No one that matters is saying what you’re saying other than you. 

[TwiceHorn 31262]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

I imagine the evidence on that will stay a muddled mess.

What will NOT be a muddled mess will be her story, wherein she was confronted by a rage-filled, drug-fueled, giant black man, and she had no choice but to defend herself against the hulking, attacking monster.  If only he would have obeyed her lawful commands, he'd be alive today.

[Ghost of LL 15477]

2 hours ago, C-Man said:

What did Philip Kingston post on FB or Twitter regarding this that got TC Broadnax all in a tizzy? They were discussing it on The Ticket this morning.

If it was the thing from last week, he posted that DPD (or maybe the Rangers) had gone to a judge to get an arrest warrant for manslaughter, but the judge denied it on the basis that it was the wrong charge (the correct charge being murder).

[Ghost of LL 15477]

2 hours ago, C-Man said:

What did Philip Kingston post on FB or Twitter regarding this that got TC Broadnax all in a tizzy? They were discussing it on The Ticket this morning.

If it was the thing from last week, he posted that DPD (or maybe the Rangers) had gone to a judge to get an arrest warrant for manslaughter, but the judge denied it on the basis that it was the wrong charge (the correct charge being murder).

[TwiceHorn 31262]

1 minute ago, Constant said:

You get so hyperbolic it’s ridiculous. No one that matters is saying what you’re saying other than you. 

I have been measured in my response to this, but I have to confess that hystero-brisket seems to be bearing out.  After the Balch Springs verdict, I have to confess that I'm disappointed in my city and PD.  They can still pull the bacon out of the fire.

Did you know this gal?  This is getting kind of fishy.

[Chewbacca 7729]

4 minutes ago, Constant said:

You get so hyperbolic it’s ridiculous. No one that matters is saying what you’re saying other than you. 

Do you think he's wrong?  I don't.  Nobody, and I mean nobody, circles the wagons like cops when one of their own does something bad.

[Brisketexan 104557]

6 minutes ago, Constant said:

You get so hyperbolic it’s ridiculous. No one that matters is saying what you’re saying other than you. 

I posited all of the possible angles of excuses and victim-blaming that I could think of.

I can comfortably conclude two things:

1) the defense will not present ALL of them as part of its theory.

2) the defense will definitely present at least ONE of them (probably more) as part of its theory.

 

To remind you, these are the facts/theories that could be deployed by the defense:

1) he was on drugs, and his erratic and dangerous behavior put her in fear for her life.

2) he was a drug dealer, and when he saw a cop, he panicked to protect his operation, and lunged at her.

3) he refused her lawful commands because he wanted to go over to the table and get rid of the evidence of his criminal behavior.

4) he refused her lawful commands because he was in a drug-fueled state of rage/threat.

5) upon opening the door, she smelled the distinct odor of marijuana, and thus was in a heightened state of alert.

I'm probably missing a couple.  Want to make a wager on whether or not at least one of those theories is trotted out by the defense?

[SDG 3319]

You forgot he was watching kiddy porn on the laptop they seized... 

 

why havent we we seen a warrant for her apartment. Does she have a black leather couch to?   

[TwiceHorn 31262]

7 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I posited all of the possible angles of excuses and victim-blaming that I could think of.

I can comfortably conclude two things:

1) the defense will not present ALL of them as part of its theory.

2) the defense will definitely present at least ONE of them (probably more) as part of its theory.

 

To remind you, these are the facts/theories that could be deployed by the defense:

1) he was on drugs, and his erratic and dangerous behavior put her in fear for her life.

2) he was a drug dealer, and when he saw a cop, he panicked to protect his operation, and lunged at her.

3) he refused her lawful commands because he wanted to go over to the table and get rid of the evidence of his criminal behavior.

4) he refused her lawful commands because he was in a drug-fueled state of rage/threat.

5) upon opening the door, she smelled the distinct odor of marijuana, and thus was in a heightened state of alert.

I'm probably missing a couple.  Want to make a wager on whether or not at least one of those theories is trotted out by the defense?

I think it's probably worthwhile to distinguish between what her defense attorneys do strictly on her behalf and between things that the DPD and DPS and Dallas County DA do in investigating/prosecuting her.

[Constant 6722]

17 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I have been measured in my response to this, but I have to confess that hystero-brisket seems to be bearing out.  After the Balch Springs verdict, I have to confess that I'm disappointed in my city and PD.  They can still pull the bacon out of the fire.

Did you know this gal?  This is getting kind of fishy.

I knew her but didn’t really know her. 

[Brisketexan 104557]

Just now, TwiceHorn said:

I think it's probably worthwhile to distinguish between what her defense attorneys do strictly on her behalf and between things that the DPD and DPS and Dallas County DA do in investigating/prosecuting her.

Fair...but also probably irrelevant.  Do you think that a) her defense team will get the same level of cooperation from DPD and the DA that other defendants get, or b) here defense team will get significantly more cooperation/assistance/coordination from DPD and the DA? 

[Jive Turkey 12568]

The affidavit doesn’t specify the lawful commands Amber allegedly gave Jean, correct?  Just vaguely says he failed to obey them, whatever they were.

Now that weed was allegedly discovered in his apartment “in the open,” she can go with that one from here on out.  If they had found a gun in his place, she could go with “I thought he was holding a gun so I asked him to show me his hands.”  Even if the gun was found in the closet, the fact he owns one would be enough for some to justify shooting him.  “Hey man, he owns a gun.  You never know.  He could have used that to kill sweet Amber if she hadn’t shot him first.”

[Constant 6722]

13 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I posited all of the possible angles of excuses and victim-blaming that I could think of.

I can comfortably conclude two things:

1) the defense will not present ALL of them as part of its theory.

2) the defense will definitely present at least ONE of them (probably more) as part of its theory.

 

To remind you, these are the facts/theories that could be deployed by the defense:

1) he was on drugs, and his erratic and dangerous behavior put her in fear for her life.

2) he was a drug dealer, and when he saw a cop, he panicked to protect his operation, and lunged at her.

3) he refused her lawful commands because he wanted to go over to the table and get rid of the evidence of his criminal behavior.

4) he refused her lawful commands because he was in a drug-fueled state of rage/threat.

5) upon opening the door, she smelled the distinct odor of marijuana, and thus was in a heightened state of alert.

I'm probably missing a couple.  Want to make a wager on whether or not at least one of those theories is trotted out by the defense?

Seems pretty unethical for me to wager with you considering the circumstances. I’ll pass. 

[4th&Five 41457]

 

[Dahobbs 17437]

17 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I posited all of the possible angles of excuses and victim-blaming that I could think of.

I can comfortably conclude two things:

1) the defense will not present ALL of them as part of its theory.

2) the defense will definitely present at least ONE of them (probably more) as part of its theory.

 

To remind you, these are the facts/theories that could be deployed by the defense:

1) he was on drugs, and his erratic and dangerous behavior put her in fear for her life.

2) he was a drug dealer, and when he saw a cop, he panicked to protect his operation, and lunged at her.

3) he refused her lawful commands because he wanted to go over to the table and get rid of the evidence of his criminal behavior.

4) he refused her lawful commands because he was in a drug-fueled state of rage/threat.

5) upon opening the door, she smelled the distinct odor of marijuana, and thus was in a heightened state of alert.

I'm probably missing a couple.  Want to make a wager on whether or not at least one of those theories is trotted out by the defense?

To be fair, I'm pretty sure it would be malpractice to not present at least some of those as a defense. The real issue is the police helping her make her defense. That isn't something you would find with other defendants. 

Edited September 13, 2018 by Dahobbs

[ocugolf 1210]

Why is he having weed in his apartment even a headline? 

[Brisketexan 104557]

1 minute ago, ocugolf said:

Why is he having weed in his apartment even a headline? 

So....you haven't seen any photos of the defendant?

Clearly, he was a drug-dealing thug.

[TwiceHorn 31262]

13 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Fair...but also probably irrelevant.  Do you think that a) her defense team will get the same level of cooperation from DPD and the DA that other defendants get, or b) here defense team will get significantly more cooperation/assistance/coordination from DPD and the DA? 

Well, like I intimated, if we can find the authorities named providing assistance, they should be excoriated publicly.

I think a search warrant of a privately held crime scene is a normal thing.  In this instance, it happens to be the victim's place.  The specific mention of narcotics and paraphernalia was a bit gratuitous in this instance, but again probably SOP.  And, if he had doobage lying around it was going to be discovered and mentioned in the warrant return.

One might think she deserves a good tossing of her place, but I'm not sure the authorities can yet gin up probable cause to support such a warrant.

And, as yet, no authorities have taken to trashing the victim.  And I am not going to hold it against the authorities for things the defense does in the ordinary course of defending.

Still and all, there's enough smoke swirling that I think there may be more to it than a horrific accident involving a marginally competent cop.

[TwiceHorn 31262]

2 minutes ago, ocugolf said:

Why is he having weed in his apartment even a headline? 

To be fair, the mention of it was in a search warrant return, a receipt for items taken during a search.  The media reported it because that's a public document.

And, in case you hadn't been keeping up with current, or non-current, events, possession of marijuana is still illegal in the state of Texas.

[HenryJames 65887]

5 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

To be fair, the mention of it was in a search warrant return, a receipt for items taken during a search.  The media reported it because that's a public document.

And, in case you hadn't been keeping up with current, or non-current, events, possession of marijuana is still illegal in the state of Texas.

[4th and 5 4914]

Crime-scene evidence from Botham Jean’s apartment supports Dallas police Officer Amber Guyger’s account that she shot Jean from across the room as she stood inside his apartment door, two law enforcement officials with direct knowledge of the case told The Dallas Morning News.

 

 

The two shell casings were found just inside the door, indicating that's where Guyger stood when she fired her gun, one official said.

That official said there was no blood by the door to indicate that's where Jean was shot. There was "a small amount along the paramedics' route with Botham," one of the officials said.

=================

I had lunch with a cop today, we discussed it and consistent with my recollection, and tough lessons on hot brass, his opinion is the casings are ejected out to the side and to the back, not forward.

Edited September 14, 2018 by 4th and 5

[4th and 5 4914]

Also, I would like to add sometimes when I enter a residence, I can't look down and see the doormat because of my "package." 

[El Diablo 4232]

3 hours ago, Constant said:

You don’t wear those home. 

??? That's where I put mine on. 

[Constant 6722]

7 minutes ago, El Diablo said:

??? That's where I put mine on. 

We dock ‘em at the station every day so they can download and charge. 

[El Diablo 4232]

5 minutes ago, Constant said:

We dock ‘em at the station every day so they can download and charge. 

Why do you guys go home strapped and in uniform and firemen don't? 

J/K!

[Message Board User 12389]

On ‎9‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 1:17 PM, Message Board User said:

Gotta give the cops time to plant evidence and get stories straight.

Nailed it back on page 5.

[cmontexas 3250]

If this bitch lives right across the street from the police station then why the hell is she driving to work and "parking on the wrong level"?

[Deej 76542]

You try walking after working a 512 hour shift.

[Constant 6722]

Just now, cmontexas said:

If this bitch lives right across the street from the police station then why the hell is she driving to work and "parking on the wrong level"?

She doesn’t work at Headquarters. 

[SDG 3319]

45 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well, like I intimated, if we can find the authorities named providing assistance, they should be excoriated publicly.

I think a search warrant of a privately held crime scene is a normal thing.  In this instance, it happens to be the victim's place.  The specific mention of narcotics and paraphernalia was a bit gratuitous in this instance, but again probably SOP.  And, if he had doobage lying around it was going to be discovered and mentioned in the warrant return.

One might think she deserves a good tossing of her place, but I'm not sure the authorities can yet gin up probable cause to support such a warrant.

And, as yet, no authorities have taken to trashing the victim.  And I am not going to hold it against the authorities for things the defense does in the ordinary course of defending.

Still and all, there's enough smoke swirling that I think there may be more to it than a horrific accident involving a marginally competent cop.

They need to search her place to verify how easily she can mistake his place for hers.  All the latest news indicates she shot him from the door.  Does this apartment not have hallway lights?  I live in a very similar building and when I open my door at night my living room lights up from the ambient light in the hall.  Does her apartment look anything like his so much so that a reasonable person could mistake them?

[Zepol87 9171]

We dock ‘em at the station every day so they can download and charge. 

Is this when you lose the footage?

[po elvis 2070]

noise complaint against the victim that day. witnesses stating she was banging on his door saying "Let me in, let me in". going to the wrong apartment was just a desperate explanation by her. the truth will come out.

[miguelito 11216]

^ Do we know for a fact yet that those witnesses don't also have marijuana or crack or dead hookers in their apartments?

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

Bookmarking this here so we can compare and contrast the difference in the tone of the prosecution in these 2 cases. 

Prosecutors point to 'prior acts of recklessness and indifference' while Noor was an officer

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2018/09/05/mohamed-noor-case-prosecutors-point-to-prior-acts-of-recklessness-while-officer

[Vic Mackey 46932]

Of course the victim blaming has started. And they wonder why so many have negative views on cops. Fuck the Back the Blue slogan. This is fucking pathetic but not surprising. This could be Ferguson, Missouri Pt 2 in terms of the aftermath is this dumb bitch skates. They are doing everything they can to spin this. How many different versions have now came out about this? The prosecution is not going to be gunning for her like  regular criminal. They won't even view her as a criminal at all. 

[Chewbacca 7729]

^ Do we know for a fact yet that those witnesses don't also have marijuana or crack or dead hookers in their apartments?

If they don't already, they will.

[TwiceHorn 31262]

4 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Bookmarking this here so we can compare and contrast the difference in the tone of the prosecution in these 2 cases. 

 

 

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2018/09/05/mohamed-noor-case-prosecutors-point-to-prior-acts-of-recklessness-while-officer

I don't know that that's a really apt comparison.  Much like JBJ has argued about common-law murder, Minnesota murder requires "depraved mind," as opposed to Texas murder where all you have to do is intend to harm.  That state of mind requirement is going to bring in all kinds of things.

The prosecution isn't trashing that guys character for non-specific reasons.

[TwiceHorn 31262]

4 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

Of course the victim blaming has started. And they wonder why so many have negative views on cops. Fuck the Back the Blue slogan. This is fucking pathetic but not surprising. This could be Ferguson, Missouri Pt 2 in terms of the aftermath is this dumb bitch skates. They are doing everything they can to spin this. How many different versions have now came out about this? The prosecution is not going to be gunning for her like  regular criminal. They won't even view her as a criminal at all. 

It may yet, but it hasn't.  No one from DPD, DPS/Rangers, or the Dallas County DA has breathed a word about Botham Jean.

[rantanamo 143]

does anything state that the marijuana was his?  It seems to be listed along with other items that clearly are not his.  

[Constant 6722]

37 minutes ago, Zepol87 said:

 

Is this when you lose the footage?

 

If I sat around answering these unfunny, low-hanging fruit jokes all day, I’d have no time for anything else. You want to be an adult and ask me an adult question, go ahead. Keeping in mind I can’t talk about specifics with this incident. 

[TwiceHorn 31262]

2 minutes ago, rantanamo said:

does anything state that the marijuana was his?  It seems to be listed along with other items that clearly are not his.  

Fair point.  It was just found in his apartment.  If I were prosecuting, I might be tempted to exclude reference to it at trial as he isn't there to explain it, and it's of minimal relevance.