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Dallas officer kills man after mistaking apartment for her own, police say

'stache

By 'stache
in Daily Texan

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Constant
Constant

First off I’d like to say that I’m heartbroken for the Jean family. As a parent myself, I hope Mr. Jean’s father and mother find some peace in the outcome. They appear to be a wonderful family that ra

SubliminalHorn
SubliminalHorn

Just relax the throat and stay in rhythm 

4th&Five
4th&Five

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105441

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, 4th and 5 said:

This is a fascinating case. Been doing this over 20 years and I teach it. Teaching the defenses right now. Can't get enough of this stuff. 

I think I could get her off. Somewhere back in September I posted an analysis of the defenses.  

 

 

I agree.  I suspect you could.  I don't even practice in the field, and I think I'd have a fair shot of it.

I'm curious about your take if we flipped the script.  Imagine Botham comes home tired, legally carrying a weapon (this is Texas, after all), and does exactly what she did - except the shooter is a black civilian male killing a white civilian female.  

You'd have a LOT harder time getting him off, wouldn't you?

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ztejas

ztejas 43546

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I agree.  I suspect you could.  I don't even practice in the field, and I think I'd have a fair shot of it.

I'm curious about your take if we flipped the script.  Imagine Botham comes home tired, legally carrying a weapon (this is Texas, after all), and does exactly what she did - except the shooter is a black civilian male killing a white civilian female.  

You'd have a LOT harder time getting him off, wouldn't you?

Botham isn't a cop. You don't even need to bring race or gender into it. 

If he WAS a cop - then yes (and sorry if that's what you mean). But white women are the most privileged members of society and black men unfortunately fall towards the bottom. 

Edited by ztejas
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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105441

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2 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Botham isn't a cop. You don't even need to bring race or gender into it. 

If he WAS a cop - then yes (and sorry if that's what you mean). But white women are the most privileged members of society and black men unfortunately fall towards the bottom. 

Oh, I know.  It's a really layer cake of shit.

White female cop does this -- probably gets off.

Black male non-cop does this -- dies in Huntsville.

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ztejas

ztejas 43546

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1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Oh, I know.  It's a really layer cake of shit.

White female cop does this -- probably gets off.

Black male non-cop does this -- dies in Huntsville.

I would expand that to (and not a lawyer (obviously) so feel free to correct):

White female does this to a black male - invol manslaughter and 2 years in the pen. 

Black male does this to a white female - vol manslaughter or 2nd degree and more than 2.

Fucked up but it's the country we live in. 

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4th and 5

4th and 5 4920

Posted
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3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

I agree.  I suspect you could.  I don't even practice in the field, and I think I'd have a fair shot of it.

I'm curious about your take if we flipped the script.  Imagine Botham comes home tired, legally carrying a weapon (this is Texas, after all), and does exactly what she did - except the shooter is a black civilian male killing a white civilian female.  

You'd have a LOT harder time getting him off, wouldn't you?

He would be a lot harder

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Catdaddyhorn

Catdaddyhorn 3447

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Seems appropriate.  John Creuzot will be the DA when this goes to trial and I trust him to do the right thing (/spike lee).  He's a good man, regardless of political affiliation, and has a track record of doing the right thing without regard for political consequences (he "invented" drug courts and other diversion programs in Dallas County many years ago as a judge).
Plus his family started Frenchys so there's that.
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Chewbacca

Chewbacca 7787

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I can’t stop thinking about the “what if” he had a gun and shot/killed her under the assumption she was breaking into his house and armed. Wouldn’t he be essentially guaranteed to be within his rights to have killed her?
Yep. Right up until the point where the police shot him dead because he shot a cop.
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NorthLoop

NorthLoop 14252

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2 hours ago, SubliminalHorn said:

And then he would be indicted for murder of an officer. Doesn’t matter. 

Yep. He would be on death row for killing a cop who was executing a search of his apt because she smelled weed. Her bodycam would magically have malfunctioned and his blood test would've revealed crack laced with pcp. And a missing child would've been found in his bathroom. 

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texasjacket

texasjacket 289

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13 hours ago, 4th and 5 said:

This is a fascinating case. Been doing this over 20 years and I teach it. Teaching the defenses right now. Can't get enough of this stuff. 

I think I could get her off. Somewhere back in September I posted an analysis of the defenses.  

 

 

And you would be able to sleep at night knowing full well, you let some one get away with murder? What happens when it is your apartment next time?

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ShaggyBevo RIP

ShaggyBevo RIP 3868

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 11/30/2018 at 6:05 PM, 4th and 5 said:

This is a fascinating case. Been doing this over 20 years and I teach it. Teaching the defenses right now. Can't get enough of this stuff. 

I think I could get her off. Somewhere back in September I posted an analysis of the defenses.  

 

 

The electronic locks at that apartment complex may be pivotal. Those usually have an audit trail. If there are time logs that show she went to her apartment first her whole story is toast.  When I last dealt with electronic locks the last 100 entries had a time and key used record.

Edited by ShaggyBevo RIP
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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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Way until the jury finds out she requested to work that extra long shift even though it wasn't her turn to do so.  Adding fuel to her fire that she  was "wiped out from a long shift and not thinking clearly."  She set the wheels in motion on this thing long before that night.  

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4th and 5

4th and 5 4920

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On 12/1/2018 at 6:10 AM, texasjacket said:

And you would be able to sleep at night knowing full well, you let some one get away with murder? What happens when it is your apartment next time?

You prejudge much? You think someone charged with a crime doesn't deserve one zealous advocate to counter the infinite resources of the state to prosecute? In my experience, people like you have this attitude, but when it's you or your loved one whose ass is in a sling, you whine and complain about rights you don't even have, or failed to exercise, and want a break from the system. When I spot people like you, you know what I do? I charge you an extra couple thousand. 

Who said it was a murder? You, not knowing the facts of the case?

Based on the evidence presented at trial, if the jury verdict is an acquittal, there is no murder. And if got a NG, I'd sleep good. Real good.

To be clear, I said I thought the appropriate charge was murder, because her act was intentional, not reckless. And she has defenses to her conduct.....which I doubt were presented to the grand jury. The defense has no right to present evidence to a grand jury.

We'll see if the jury finds from the evidence presented at trial whether the defenses available to her were proved by the state beyond a reasonable doubt not to apply to her conduct.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105441

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7 minutes ago, 4th and 5 said:

You prejudge much? You think someone charged with a crime doesn't deserve one zealous advocate to counter the infinite resources of the state to prosecute? In my experience, people like you have this attitude, but when it's you or your loved one whose ass is in a sling, you whine and complain about rights you don't even have, or failed to exercise, and want a break from the system. When I spot people like you, you know what I do? I charge you an extra couple thousand. 

Who said it was a murder? You, not knowing the facts of the case?

Based on the evidence presented at trial, if the jury verdict is an acquittal, there is no murder. And if got a NG, I'd sleep good. Real good.

To be clear, I said I thought the appropriate charge was murder, because her act was intentional, not reckless. And she has defenses to her conduct.....which I doubt were presented to the grand jury. The defense has no right to present evidence to a grand jury.

We'll see if the jury finds from the evidence presented at trial whether the defenses available to her were proved by the state beyond a reasonable doubt not to apply to her conduct.

And that is indeed EXACTLY how it's supposed to work.

What bothers folks is that the exact same scenario plays out quite differently when the shooter is a cop.  Two sets of laws/justice is a real problem.  And it's how you destroy faith in a pretty good system of justice.

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High Plains Drifter

High Plains Drifter 11052

Posted
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On 11/30/2018 at 9:10 PM, SquishMitten said:

I can’t stop thinking about the “what if” he had a gun and shot/killed her under the assumption she was breaking into his house and armed. Wouldn’t he be essentially guaranteed to be within his rights to have killed her?

I'd like to think you can't just shoot somebody who accidentally walks into the wrong apt.

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Gene Parmesan

Gene Parmesan 4016

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I would guess that if he killed her under the same set of facts it would be pretty easy self defense claim on his behalf.  Killing an armed stranger that walked into your apartment/house that is.  The only thing that would make me hesitant is her being a cop, but it's not like she knocked and announced herself as police she just walked right in.

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El Diablo

El Diablo 4232

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1 hour ago, Gene Parmesan said:

I would guess that if he killed her under the same set of facts it would be pretty easy self defense claim on his behalf.  Killing an armed stranger that walked into your apartment/house that is.  The only thing that would make me hesitant is her being a cop, but it's not like she knocked and announced herself as police she just walked right in.

Would be interesting. I'd think there would be some questions. I mean, she's a cop. She executes warrants all day. She's trained to not just enter folks' homes without following proper police procedures. If the black guy was the only witness to the shooting of a cop I'm afraid it might go badly regardless of the circumstances or truth.

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Gene Parmesan

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2 minutes ago, El Diablo said:

Would be interesting. I'd think there would be some questions. I mean, she's a cop. She executes warrants all day. She's trained to not just enter folks' homes without following proper police procedures. If the black guy was the only witness to the shooting of a cop I'm afraid it might go badly regardless of the circumstances or truth.

Yeah it muddies the waters, but the same set of facts would be under the pretense that she believes she was walking into her apartment.  So there would be no police procedures to follow or warrants to execute because she (in her mind) is walking into her apartment. 

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El Diablo

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2 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Yeah it muddies the waters, but the same set of facts would be under the pretense that she believes she was walking into her apartment.  So there would be no police procedures to follow or warrants to execute because she (in her mind) is walking into her apartment. 

Wouldn't surprise me a bit if the guy was indicted under those circumstances. I doubt he'd be convicted but he'd be the ham sandwich.

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conVINCEd

conVINCEd 21469

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19 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Yeah it muddies the waters, but the same set of facts would be under the pretense that she believes she was walking into her apartment.  So there would be no police procedures to follow or warrants to execute because she (in her mind) is walking into her apartment. 

If he killed her, we wouldn’t know that she thought it was her apartment.  The facts would simply be dead white cop, black shooter, drugs found at the scene.  End of story, welcome to Huntsville.

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Gene Parmesan

Gene Parmesan 4016

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2 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

If he killed her, we wouldn’t know that she thought it was her apartment.  The facts would simply be dead white cop, black shooter, drugs found at the scene.  End of story, welcome to Huntsville.

We wouldn't know that she lived directly above/below, was off duty, and had no police reason to be at that apartment?

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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Posted
2 hours ago, Reagan1k said:

Will all those 100's of episodes, I can't believe Law and Order didn't come up with this plot first.

That's just what John Mulaney said.  ;)

 

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