Dallas officer kills man after mistaking apartment for her own, police say

[Gene Parmesan 3,992]

I don't think the DPD technically releases the information, but if keeping things sealed from the press is an option for 911 tapes why don't you do the same thing for all evidence assuming tainted jury pool is the concern?

[DigDug 1,649]

4 hours ago, El Diablo said:

Did she call 911 to report the shooting before it happened?

Somebody's been watching Blood Work

[Zavala 1,384]

9 hours ago, PilotsError said:

Dallas DA is refusing to release the 911 call .

She must have said she shot her by before changing her story. 

11 hours ago, RPM said:

If she walks, somebody will hire her.

No, not any police force in the US. You sound like an insane blue haired leftie.

[Zavala 1,384]

3 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

it doesn't take a conspiracy theory to see how differently cops are handled by the justice system than laypeople. we found about his possession of marijuana right quick, because, i was told, that's public material. so is the 911 call. but it is being withheld. if they were so interested in a perfectly untainted jury pool, we wouldn't know about his weed either. 

to be clear, i'm not coming at you. i'm just extremely cynical.

Good point. Sounds like this dumb lying cunt needs to be locked up for murder and the corrupt cops trying to cover it up also need to go in the slammer. 

She's probably a dope head too, shot her dope head boyfriend and went into panic mode with the "I was tired, I thought it was my apartment" excuse. Shameful. 

I'm interested in the facts, and who has been hiding them, and why, and how they will be punished. Nobody is above the law.

[Red Six 131]

1 hour ago, irishtexan said:

This is both absurd, and completely expected. 

Can any criminal defense attorneys comment on how they can choose not to release this information, but at the same time justify the release of personal and incriminating information about the deceased under the guise of "public information?"

I'm surmising here because I don't want to dig through all the information sources, but the marijuana was found pursuant to search warrant, and search warrant returns become part of a court record. Notice I didn't say "the" court record, because the search warrant is returned to whomever issued it -- so if a Dallas muni judge issued it, it goes back to Dallas Municipal Court, if a Dallas County district court judge issued it, it returns to the district judge, etc. Sometimes it will be on file with the criminal case, but most of the time it won't because search warrants typically issue before a court has jurisdiction under indictment. At any rate, it is accessible short of a judge's sealing it, which is extraordinary and rarely happens.

But what about the 9-1-1 call? Isn't that a "public record"?

Yes. However, until it is placed in evidence in court, it is not necessarily accessible. Release of this information is governed under the Texas Public Information Act (TPIA). The TPIA has myriad exceptions for release. Some items are confidential by law, and others can be withheld if the agency wishes to do so. The law enforcement exception permits an agency to not release information that is related to the investigation or detection of a crime. That information is not confidential, which mandates withholding; it is an exception, which is discretionary with the agency.

The 9-1-1 call in this case is likely related to an ongoing investigation. The agency that holds it can release it or withhold it, subject to the ruling of the AG. But 9-1-1 calls often are released soon after an alleged, high-profile crime is committed. So why is the agency refusing to release the 9-1-1 call in this case?

<shoulder shrug emoji>

[immortal13 4,059]

Funny how quick they were to release info on the victim (ie the marijuana), but are being super tight with any info on the cop. Not shocking

[TwiceHorn 31,184]

13 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

Funny how quick they were to release info on the victim (ie the marijuana), but are being super tight with any info on the cop. Not shocking

Read Red Six's post.  The press found the search warrant info on its own, as a public record.  911 calls are technically public, subject to an "investgation" exception, but aren't just lying out there for the press to find.  Someone made a FOIA/Open Records request and the DA is withholding on the ground that it relates to an ongoing investigation.  That withholding may or may not hold up (I might think that it would), but would be disclosed to the defense in a criminal trial/pretrial, at which point it would probably become part of the court file for the press to find, or the defense to disclose.  Similar in a civil suit.

It hasn't been explicitly stated, but one reason the warrant was worded the way it was (narcotics, narcotic paraphernalia) was that the first responders, who had no authority to seize evidence, told the popo what they saw lying around his apartment when they "removed" him.

[irishtexan 11,442]

13 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Read Red Six's post.  The press found the search warrant info on its own, as a public record.  911 calls are technically public, subject to an "investgation" exception, but aren't just lying out there for the press to find.  Someone made a FOIA/Open Records request and the DA is withholding on the ground that it relates to an ongoing investigation.  That withholding may or may not hold up (I might think that it would), but would be disclosed to the defense in a criminal trial/pretrial, at which point it would probably become part of the court file for the press to find, or the defense to disclose.  Similar in a civil suit.

It hasn't been explicitly stated, but one reason the warrant was worded the way it was (narcotics, narcotic paraphernalia) was that the first responders, who had no authority to seize evidence, told the popo what they saw lying around his apartment when they "removed" him.

If this officer was a regular old private citizen, do you think s/he would be afforded the same protections of privacy/witholding of info that the officer is being given? Because it certainly seems that she is being protected by the DPD, the DA, the courts, etc., under a bunch of legalese bullshit. 

[TwiceHorn 31,184]

41 minutes ago, irishtexan said:

If this officer was a regular old private citizen, do you think s/he would be afforded the same protections of privacy/witholding of info that the officer is being given? Because it certainly seems that she is being protected by the DPD, the DA, the courts, etc., under a bunch of legalese bullshit. 

I'm not sure.  It's a rather unique situation.  The point is that there is a non-conspiratorial reason for what has gone down so far.  I'm as cynical as the next person, or moreso, when it comes to cops and the thin blue line.  I'm just willing to let this play out instead of seizing on every little factoid and screaming that the fix is in.  I know that's an extremely unpopular viewpoint here on the surl, but there it is.

A quick googling indicates that its fairly common for police/DAs to withhold 911 calls that are evidence in an ongoing investigation that DOES NOT involve a cop defendant.  Doesn't make it right, but doesn't make this situation particularly unique.

Edited October 4, 2018 by TwiceHorn

[C-Man 26,991]

6 hours ago, PilotsError said:

I would love to see footage of her prior shoot, if it exists.  I have zero belief the guy actually took her taser.

I don't think that dude was killed by Guyger, though. What did he say about the incident?

[RPM 26,185]

3 hours ago, Zavala said:

No, not any police force in the US.

[immortal13 4,059]

3 hours ago, Zavala said:

Good point. Sounds like this dumb lying cunt needs to be locked up for murder and the corrupt cops trying to cover it up also need to go in the slammer. 

She's probably a dope head too, shot her dope head boyfriend and went into panic mode with the "I was tired, I thought it was my apartment" excuse. Shameful. 

I'm interested in the facts, and who has been hiding them, and why, and how they will be punished. Nobody is above the law.

They weren't boyfriend/girlfriend; that has already been established.

[Guest Lobo]

If you're on the hook for a possible felony and you're guilty, but they gotta match up DNA to prosecute you...you're gonna want the lab that is handling the toxicology report for this officer. Because you'll have plenty of time to bug outta town.  

Whatever it is, it'll be something she somehow magically ingested all of in the elevator ride up to the apartment, so that it could not have possible impaired her while on duty and had not yet kicked into effect when she opened fire.   

[Chewbacca 7,727]

If you're on the hook for a possible felony and you're guilty, but they gotta match up DNA to prosecute you...you're gonna want the lab that is handling the toxicology report for this officer. Because you'll have plenty of time to bug outta town.  
Whatever it is, it'll be something she somehow magically ingested all of in the elevator ride up to the apartment, so that it could not have possible impaired her while on duty and had not yet kicked into effect when she opened fire.   

Nah, she took it (or drank it) after she shot him but before they got there.

[Guest Lobo]

I could see that.  She Kinda of plops down on the sofa (which apparently looks just like hers), puts the weapon on the coffee table (again, identical collection from IKEA), throws back a handful of pills from her shirt pocket, chases it with a fifth of Seagram's (because it's my story) that for some reason was on her utility belt, props her feet up as she starts to dial the station house, and proclaims, "Ahh, I'm getting too old for this shit..."  

[SDG 3,319]

The cop that shot Labuan McDonald was just found guilty.  

[JimmyHoffa 1,188]

7 minutes ago, SDG said:

The cop that shot Labuan McDonald was just found guilty.  

 

I know there have been other "slam dunk" cases where a police officer was found not guilty but this wasn't a shock after watching the body camera tape and the awful testimony he gave on the stand.  

[SDG 3,319]

2 minutes ago, JimmyHoffa said:

 

I know there have been other "slam dunk" cases where a police officer was found not guilty but this wasn't a shock after watching the body camera tape and the awful testimony he gave on the stand.  

I agree but this and the north Dallas case give me hope that the tide of police accountability is turning. I’m an optimist. 

[JimmyHoffa 1,188]

5 minutes ago, SDG said:

I agree but this and the north Dallas case give me hope that the tide of police accountability is turning. I’m an optimist. 

Agreed. 

[TwiceHorn 31,184]

6 minutes ago, SDG said:

I agree but this and the north Dallas case give me hope that the tide of police accountability is turning. I’m an optimist. 

You mean Balch Springs? 

[Brisketexan 104,462]

53 minutes ago, SDG said:

I agree but this and the north Dallas case give me hope that the tide of police accountability is turning. I’m an optimist. 

Wussy.  Team pessimist!

Cops will only be convicted in cases where the evidence is TWICE as convincing as it would take to convict a regular defendant.  Maybe there times as convincing.  I haven't done the exact math.

She's getting off.  There will be a story/excuse, and I GUARANTEE you it will revolve around him being a "drug-crazed black man" (I mean, they won't use those EXACT words....they'll just use words a lot like them, and wink when they say them).

[SDG 3,319]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Wussy.  Team pessimist!

Cops will only be convicted in cases where the evidence is TWICE as convincing as it would take to convict a regular defendant.  Maybe there times as convincing.  I haven't done the exact math.

She's getting off.  There will be a story/excuse, and I GUARANTEE you it will revolve around him being a "drug-crazed black man" (I mean, they won't use those EXACT words....they'll just use words a lot like them, and wink when they say them).

They found drugs in McDonalds system and the cop was still convicted.  Evidence still has to be overwhelming, but these two convictions give me hope.  Remember it wasn’t that long ago that Brailsford got off for executing Shaver on camera (add the SC and Tulsa  cases as well). 

[4th and 5 4,910]

On 10/4/2018 at 1:05 PM, Red Six said:

I'm surmising here because I don't want to dig through all the information sources, but the marijuana was found pursuant to search warrant, and search warrant returns become part of a court record. Notice I didn't say "the" court record, because the search warrant is returned to whomever issued it -- so if a Dallas muni judge issued it, it goes back to Dallas Municipal Court, if a Dallas County district court judge issued it, it returns to the district judge, etc. Sometimes it will be on file with the criminal case, but most of the time it won't because search warrants typically issue before a court has jurisdiction under indictment. At any rate, it is accessible short of a judge's sealing it, which is extraordinary and rarely happens.

But what about the 9-1-1 call? Isn't that a "public record"?

Yes. However, until it is placed in evidence in court, it is not necessarily accessible. Release of this information is governed under the Texas Public Information Act (TPIA). The TPIA has myriad exceptions for release. Some items are confidential by law, and others can be withheld if the agency wishes to do so. The law enforcement exception permits an agency to not release information that is related to the investigation or detection of a crime. That information is not confidential, which mandates withholding; it is an exception, which is discretionary with the agency.

The 9-1-1 call in this case is likely related to an ongoing investigation. The agency that holds it can release it or withhold it, subject to the ruling of the AG. But 9-1-1 calls often are released soon after an alleged, high-profile crime is committed. So why is the agency refusing to release the 9-1-1 call in this case?

<shoulder shrug emoji>

Well I was going to type this, but no need now. This is the correct answer.

[C-Man 26,991]

Welp, this story seems to have just withered out in Dallas.

[RPM 26,185]

Everything is on lockdown until the trial.

[bernorange 8,346]

Quote

...

First Assistant District Attorney Mike Snipes says releasing the 911 calls before the trial could cause potential jurors to form an opinion about the case. He said: "We don't want to have the venue shifted out of Dallas County.”

“If you can keep John Wiley Price case here in Dallas County with the publicity that had, then I don't see why this case would ever be moved out of Dallas,” Washington said.

...

http://www.fox4news.com/news/dallas-officials-trying-to-keep-public-records-sealed-in-amber-guyger-investigation

Shots fired!

[hayden_horn 11,360]

3 minutes ago, RPM said:

Everything is on lockdown until the trial.

i think you mean election day.  dallas DA is up for reelection in november having previously been appointed by governor abbott.

/nopoliticsboard

[bigup2dahorns 3,343]

 Dallas DA meets with Jean family today for 3 hours

 

 

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/2018/10/16/botham-jeans-family-satisfied-dallas-da-investigation-officer-amber-guyger-killing-son

 

[Stella Link 534]

Family of man shot in his own apartment files lawsuit against Dallas and the fired officer

https://abc13.com/4564714/?sf200956543=1

 

 

 

[LongestHorn 759]

 

[Guest Lobo]

any update on what decade we can expert her toxicology report?   Hard to believe Dallas county has a test kit that can show if a black man has ever held a gun in his hand in the previous 18 calendar months.  But seeing if there's been alcohol and opioids in your system in the last 24 hours?  Nope, no fucking way to ever tell that accurately.  

[SDG 3,319]

Yeah that pisses me off. We found out about his mj use almost immediately as smear campaign kicked in but haven’t heard ish regarding her tox except that she was tested...

[El Diablo 4,232]

1 hour ago, SDG said:

Yeah that pisses me off. We found out about his mj use almost immediately as smear campaign kicked in but haven’t heard ish regarding her tox except that she was tested...

Well, you have to understand that the black man, well, he's dead. But the lady cop, she's alive and free and fighting for her continued freedom, hell, her she's fighting for her very life! Smearing the name of a dead black man is, well, , it's a dead black man. Need I say more? But this lady? Let's not poison the minds of the public while she's out there, fighting.

[Steel Shank 9,405]

I'm just glad she made it home safely. That's been my main concern. Did the cop, after killing innocent people, get home alive.

[ShaggyBevo RIP 3,867]

Electronic locks of that type should have an audit trail of what key was used at what time. It should show if she went to her apartment first and may show if a nonmatching key was put into Jean’s lock. 

[bigup2dahorns 3,343]

DMN:

A Dallas County grand jury went home Wednesday without deciding whether to indict a former Dallas police officer in the shooting death of an unarmed 26-year-old in his apartment.
Grand jurors heard testimony all day about whether Amber Guyger should be charged with murder, manslaughter or nothing at all for killing Botham Jean in his Dallas apartment. They won't return until Friday to either hear additional testimony or vote on an indictment.

Jean was watching a football game when Guyger fatally shot him Sept. 6. She told authorities she mistook his apartment for hers and thought Jean was a burglar.

Guyger, 30, was off-duty but still in uniform when she entered Jean's apartment at the South Side Flats complex in the Cedars, a few blocks from police headquarters. She told authorities the door was ajar and unlocked, which Jean's family disputed, saying he was a meticulous person who wouldn't have left his door open.
Guyger was arrested and charged with manslaughter three days after the shooting. She was booked into the Kaufman County Jail and released on bond within an hour.

Dallas defense attorneys have said murder was the more appropriate charge for Guyger because, in Texas, manslaughter charges are reserved for reckless acts. If Guyger intended to shoot Jean, even if she wrongly assumed he was a burglar, murder would be the charge that fits best, they said.

Guyger's attorney, Robert Rogers, has not returned phone calls seeking comment.

The Jean family's attorneys said they were hopeful that a murder indictment would be handed up.

"Anything less, we feel would be a miscarriage of justice," attorney Lee Merritt said.

Merritt said Allison Jean, Botham's mother, took the stand before the grand jury Monday. Botham's sister, Allisa Charles-Findley, was on the stand Wednesday afternoon, Merritt said.

If Guyger is indicted on the more severe charge, she will be re-arrested. If that happens, it's possible she could turn herself in at a jail outside Dallas County, as she did previously. It's also possible the grand jury could decide not to charge Guyger.

[immortal13 4,059]

They better at least indict her on a manslaughter charge or shit is going to hit the fan

[conVINCEd 21,468]

If she’s no-billed I’m working from home for a few days.

[Fudge Nuggets 19,118]

On 11/19/2018 at 11:28 PM, El Diablo said:

But the lady cop, she's alive and free and fighting for her continued freedom, hell, her she's fighting for her very life! Smearing the name of a dead black man is, well, , it's a dead black man. Need I say more? But this lady? Let's not poison the minds of the public while she's out there, fighting.

And she’s white.  You forgot the most important part.

[DigglerontheHoof 21,022]

She'll walk

[DaysOff 7,821]

Then I hope the "community" burns the city to the ground.

[bigup2dahorns 3,343]

The timing on this could be something to keep an eye on. The grand jury comes back to work on Friday and could make a decision then, just as TX/Ou the rematch rolls into town.

[Brisketexan 104,462]

She'll walk

I’ve been telling y’all....

[LurkingHorn 1,044]

1 hour ago, DaysOff said:

Then I hope the "community" burns the city to the ground.

Downtown Dallas will be a mad house if she walks. Absolute madness and I can't say it isn't deserved. This should be a no-brainer indictment. 

[irishtexan 11,442]

I mean, we were all questioning whether or not she would be found "not guilty" but she's not even gonna be indicted!

[Brisketexan 104,462]

I mean, we were all questioning whether or not she would be found "not guilty" but she's not even gonna be indicted!

White cop.
Black victim.
Done deal.

[Guest Lobo]

I wonder if the term "case precedence" even means anything to police these days.  They're going to get to use this to say, "When police can't even feel safe in their own homes, that's when society has truly gone awry."  

[Deej 76,510]

If she walks, and if someone happened to mistake her apartment for theirs, and the same situation occurred, they'd be good? Just wondering if they uphold the same standard.

[Zepol87 9,163]

58 minutes ago, LurkingHorn said:

Downtown Dallas will be a mad house if she walks. Absolute madness and I can't say it isn't deserved. This should be a no-brainer indictment. 

Totally fucking deserved if this happens. I will hate to see but the damn city will deserve what it gets. This is horseshit

[miguelito 11,204]

11 minutes ago, Deej said:

If she walks, and if someone happened to mistake her apartment for theirs, and the same situation occurred, they'd be good? Just wondering if they uphold the same standard.

Only if that person worked a 32, no, 48 hour shift first.