Dallas officer kills man after mistaking apartment for her own, police say

[Gene Parmesan 4,008]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Does it make the cop look bad?  If so, yes.

What do you mean?  The state is keeping it secret because it would make the cop look bad, but they are getting ready to present it in trial to send her away for the rest of her life?

[Brisketexan 105,155]

5 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

What do you mean?  The state is keeping it secret because it would make the cop look bad, but they are getting ready to present it in trial to send her away for the rest of her life?

I think that if that's the case, they'll try to bury it.  

[TwiceHorn 31,496]

The notion that there was a prior relationship being kept secret/buried is kind of belied by the civil suit, with attorneys that seem anxious to try the case at least partially in the press.

[Hawndoh 2,386]

"on going relationship" could also mean she made a lot of noise complaints about him or something. That they knew each other in a more conflict oriented fashion. Doesn't mean they had to be dating. 

 

[Red Six 131]

20 hours ago, T’Boo Ted Marshall said:

Attorney buddy of mine in Dallas said evidence will be presented they had an “ongoing” relationship of some sort and this was done out of anger.

He has no doubt she’ll go to prison for life.

Information like that -- especially in a high profile case -- is something that I, as an attorney, tend to keep within my "circle of trust." I can't always guarantee that it won't escape, but I think most attorneys know about which information they need to STFU.

[Skipper 6,136]

I'm not buying the secret prior relationship either.  I mean even if in theory they could get away with burying it because they are confident the family has no other way to determine independently, wouldn't that be a better narrative for DPD?  This wasn't a poorly trained, overworked and/or potentially racist officer, it's just a person that happened to be an officer murdering over a personal dispute.  

['stache 21,819]

7 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

I buy there was a "relationship", but not one of a lover or friend.

I also would be suprised if lawyers let it slip, unless they are afraid of it being covered up.

What I have not bought, at any point, is the "confused" wrong apartment bit.

She parked on the 4th floor of the garage.

There are signs all over most garages. 

Then misses that every apartment is 4xxxx rather than 3xxx.

There was claimed loud knocking, and yelling.

There are possibly noise complaints prior logged by the shooter.

Then the door is "ajar".

And she is confused and tired.

Nope. Occams Razor.

She got tired of his shit. Went to tell him what for and it escalated to a dead man.

Don't forget the red floor mat at his place that wasn't hers. That alone should tip you off you're at the wrong door. I can see the "prior relationship" being a noise complaint, or maybe she could smell some pot smoke through the floor and complained to him. I can see a scenario where she knocked on his door some time earlier, he was less than "respectful" to her authoritah, and she held a grudge. That night she comes home exhausted and he's still making noise/smoking pot. In a fit of rage she goes up and caps his ass. Her brain then comes back to earth and she thinks of the perfect excuse. I can also see there being no witnesses to the earlier encounter since it could have been just a few minutes with nobody else around. 

Edited May 8, 2019 by 'stache

[C-Man 27,230]

22 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Sort of a general question lurking in the back of my mind.  Anyone know what it's like down there from a homeless and crime standpoint.  Some years, ago, maybe 10, you would have to be something of an urban pioneer to live down there, but that was before this place was even built, I think.

Used to be shits-ville down there but the whole Southside development makes that several-block area pretty safe. If you get off the one or two roads, though, it's pretty sketchy pretty fast. You've also got to remember DPD HQ is practically across the street, I think.

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2,732]

Information like that -- especially in a high profile case -- is something that I, as an attorney, tend to keep within my "circle of trust." I can't always guarantee that it won't escape, but I think most attorneys know about which information they need to STFU.

Agreed. Alcohol loosens lips.

[Beau Vine 54,254]

On 5/2/2019 at 10:36 PM, TwiceHorn said:

I have yet to say she shouln't serve some time.  I have objected to the notion that she be "punished, hard" whatever that means.

I have yet to see anyone say that.  I have seen posters claim that she's going to get off scot free any time anyone expresses any view that is not "she should be punished, hard."

[Pato del Muerto 52,524]

Should I plug in the popcorn maker?

the idea that she went to confront him and things escalated doesn’t hold water for me if it’s true that she was coming off shift and parked on the 4th floor. That’s not how or when you argue with a neighbor. 

Sounds more like manufacturing an opportunity to kill someone, which would put the crime at capital murder or whatever is premeditated. 

Edited May 8, 2019 by Pato del Muerto

[Guest Lobo]

So if you're a white cop, you can shoot a black man and get off.  You just can't fuck a black man.  Got it.  

[TwiceHorn 31,496]

16 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Used to be shits-ville down there but the whole Southside development makes that several-block area pretty safe. If you get off the one or two roads, though, it's pretty sketchy pretty fast. You've also got to remember DPD HQ is practically across the street, I think.

Yeah HQ is close by, but it was when the area was shitsville too. 

[C-Man 27,230]

3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yeah HQ is close by, but it was when the area was shitsville too. 

Lamar Street can be walked at just about any hour of the day or night without too much trouble. A street or two over in either direction, though, is another story.

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

1 hour ago, BurntEyes said:

While it's something most people know the first person you look for in a murder is a lover, then an enemy.

Wait. Are those two different people?

[TwiceHorn 31,496]

1 minute ago, C-Man said:

Lamar Street can be walked at just about any hour of the day or night without too much trouble. A street or two over in either direction, though, is another story.

Still and all, I imagine people that live down there see a fair amount of shit and may be kind of on-guard.

[jkates 316]

 

 

 

1 hour ago, 'stache said:

Don't forget the red floor mat at his place that wasn't hers. That alone should tip you off you're at the wrong door.

I can't recall the last time, if ever,  I noticed or recognized a doormat. 

[Huckleberry 32,997]

20 minutes ago, jkates said:

I can't recall the last time, if ever,  I noticed or recognized a doormat. 

I bet if I put a red one in front of your door before you got home you'd notice.

[Gene Parmesan 4,008]

1 minute ago, Huckleberry said:

I bet if I put a red one in front of your door before you got home you'd notice.

I'd bet if you put a red doormat in front of 100 homes that quite a few would notice, and quite a few wouldn't.

[C-Man 27,230]

12 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

I'd bet if you put a red doormat in front of 100 homes that quite a few would notice, and quite a few wouldn't.

Especially if I was really fucked up or exhausted from a long day at work.

[immortal13 4,059]

57 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

I'd bet if you put a red doormat in front of 100 homes that quite a few would notice, and quite a few wouldn't.

Especially after happy hour

[El Diablo 4,232]

Sometime in the last month there was a deadly car crash here locally, fool ran a stop sign at a hwy intersection and t-boned a car killing both occupants. It may have been 2 days later the newspaper reported that the driver who ran the stop sign had meth and alcohol in the blood.

Crazy how fast this stuff can be reported.

[Huckleberry 32,997]

I'm not saying I'm absolutely certain she was under the influence of something, I'm just saying I find it hard to believe that if a police officer's toxicology report came back clean that it wouldn't have been leaked by now.

[woohorn 1,131]

I bet if I put a red one in front of your door before you got home you'd notice.

This.

 

[hayden_horn 11,362]

1 hour ago, Huckleberry said:

I bet if I put a red one in front of your door before you got home you'd notice.

or you'd at least notice something was "different." my wife once threw away an older doormat before buying a new one. when i got home, i stopped on the sidewalk and looked around, making sure i was at he right house. i didn't notice the doormat was gone, but something was wrong.

and let's not forget part of her fucking job is supposed to be keen observation and recall.

[immortal13 4,059]

5 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

I'm not saying I'm absolutely certain she was under the influence of something, I'm just saying I find it hard to believe that if a police officer's toxicology report came back clean that it wouldn't have been leaked by now.

Thin blue line

[Ten Bears 2,481]

It was 3:00 am and I was drunk the other day in East Nashville and tried to open the wrong AirBnB door one house over from mine.  Good thing a cop didn't live there.

I was pretty freaked out as I skedaddled out of the wrong yard.

[Reagan1k 3,024]

1 hour ago, Gene Parmesan said:

I'd bet if you put a red doormat in front of 100 homes that quite a few would notice, and quite a few wouldn't.

Raises hand......My wife has done some serious redecorating before and it took me days of living in the house to notice. 

She and the decorator had a side bet on how long it would take, based on my historical tunnel vision.  I know I'm not alone in that regard.

Unless I had to get a key out from under that mat, it would likely be some time before my brain clicked that something was different.

Additionally, the scars on my shins and my crooked toes tell a tale that I often fail to look down when walking.

It's a small piece of the story but not crucial or definitive in my opinion.

 

[bigup2dahorns 3,343]

https://buff.ly/2VU20Ps

 

DMN article discussing venue and can she get a fair trial in Dallas

[Sandman 3,403]

Why would a cop (especially one who appears to have "I'm a badass cop" syndrome) bother with making a noise complaint? I would assume she'd just go to his apartment, in uniform, and tell him to keep it down. She doesn't even have to tell him she lives there.  How would he know? If a cop comes to my door about the noise, I wouldn't assume that he/she must live here, too.

And I'm in club "never notice the doormat". Even if I did, I'd probably assume it got kicked down the hall from next door by some kids or something. 

 

[Fuck Tim Beck 3,834]

46 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

I'm not saying I'm absolutely certain she was under the influence of something, I'm just saying I find it hard to believe that if a police officer's toxicology report came back clean that it wouldn't have been leaked by now.

Motherfucking this. It's straight from their playbook. 

[PilotsError 2,294]

...

[immortal13 4,059]

Fuck her and her F5, whatever the fuck that is

[Neonmoon 38,129]

Mathew North, 

Go fuck yourself and your tired blue line bullshit

signed,

the world 

[RPM 26,322]

Poor overworked UNION cop. Too bad there's no way to stop them from working overtime. Cops hammer truckers that work more than 10 hours a day because of safety. You don't want an 80,000 lb truck in the hands of someone with poor cognitive functions. But a cruiser and a gun? That's okie dokie and by the way... cut 'em some slack when they accidentally murder someone. They worked really hard that day to get home safe.

[Foggy Notion 1,202]

If a cop is working 16 hour days for a month straight, there's a very good chance it's because the cop is doing it voluntarily, working additional hours off-duty to make more money. That likely is a perk, not a requirement. 

The idea that Guyger should be allowed to work again as a cop is laughable, regardless of the outcome of her trial. 

[Guest Lobo]

So fatigue is now a defense for murder/manslaughter?  Got it.  

[tokamak 6,431]

I bet anyone here one US dollar that Matthew North has also made the argument that “if Botham Jean had just done what she asked, he’d be alive today”.

[immortal13 4,059]

21 minutes ago, Lobo said:

So fatigue is now a defense for murder/manslaughter?  Got it.  

Handy info for sure

[Continental Op 3,934]

Change of venue requested by defense: 

https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2019/07/08/amber-guyger-attorneys-change-of-venue-move-murder-trial-out-of-dallas-county/

 

CAN WE MOVE THIS TRIAL TO VIDOR PLEASE?? 

[FigurelliPwC 115]

So when is the trial?

[Cajun 11,714]

On 5/12/2019 at 12:34 PM, PilotsError said:

...

Jesus.

please be sterile

[TwiceHorn 31,496]

Not a super-substantive article, but confirms some of the lawdog speculation on here.

https://www.dallasobserver.com/news/dallas-police-officer-amber-guygers-defense-tactics-11735279

Jury selection is set for September 6.  Bit surprised no continuances.

Also an explanation of why Dallas (and other cops) avoid Dallas County facilities when turning themselves in.  https://www.dallasobserver.com/news/why-dallas-police-accused-of-crimes-avoid-the-dallas-county-jail-11700265

Edited August 19, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[Brisketexan 105,155]

Y'all remember I told ya she's walking?  She's walking.  She's a hero.  Not only should we not criticize her for this shooting, we should thank her for her dedication and hard work for our safety.  Really, it's only because she loved her duty SO MUCH that she ended up exhausted and shooting a guy on the wrong floor in the wrong apartment with the wrong number outside.

So, thank her, and BACK THE BLUE!

[AUS-97HORN 11,809]

yeah the mistake of fact defense seems like shes got a real fucking chance of getting off entirely... hell she will probably get her pension back unless by some miracle 3 white, female, jurors are cop-skeptics and actually follow their conscience and ask.... if this lady was not a cop, would she ever have a chance in hell of being able to make the same defense as she is trying to do now?????....

 

and even more so, if the roles were completely reversed and Jean (the scary, tall, large, pot smoking black man) managed to accidentally go into the wrong apartment, somehow manage to open a door that is supposed to not open without the correct key, and walk in on a white female in her underwear (btw, cant forget shes a cop), and she lunges for a gun, and he (for the purpose of argument) is a legal LTC carrier, and he pops her because he legit thinks hes got a crackhead white girl who broke into his apartment and now is lunging for something that looks a lot like a gun.

 

LOL are you fucking kidding me?  Jean would have immediately had his ass beat by every fucking cop that showed up as soon as they realized she was a not a dead white crackhead, but a dead card-carrying-blue-badge-wearing white girl and he would have been immediately put on trial for Murder 1 of a cop with the death sentence on the line.    and he sure as shit would have been convicted of murder, (but maybe not Murder 1 Capital Punishment)

[Brisketexan 105,155]

12 minutes ago, AUS-97HORN said:

yeah the mistake of fact defense seems like shes got a real fucking chance of getting off entirely... hell she will probably get her pension back unless by some miracle 3 white, female, jurors are cop-skeptics and actually follow their conscience and ask.... if this lady was not a cop, would she ever have a chance in hell of being able to make the same defense as she is trying to do now?????....

 

and even more so, if the roles were completely reversed and Jean (the scary, tall, large, pot smoking black man) managed to accidentally go into the wrong apartment, somehow manage to open a door that is supposed to not open without the correct key, and walk in on a white female in her underwear (btw, cant forget shes a cop), and she lunges for a gun, and he (for the purpose of argument) is a legal LTC carrier, and he pops her because he legit thinks hes got a crackhead white girl who broke into his apartment and now is lunging for something that looks a lot like a gun.

 

LOL are you fucking kidding me?  Jean would have immediately had his ass beat by every fucking cop that showed up as soon as they realized she was a not a dead white crackhead, but a dead card-carrying-blue-badge-wearing white girl and he would have been immediately put on trial for Murder 1 of a cop with the death sentence on the line.    and he sure as shit would have been convicted of murder, (but maybe not Murder 1 Capital Punishment)

The underlying theme will 100% be not just that it was a mistake-in-fact, but....come on, folks.....who among us WOULDN'T react with deadly force upon seeing a threatening thug* menacingly coming towards us.

* And everyone here knows what I mean by "thug," right?

[NeverMarryAStripper 21,907]

That defense would seem to call into question Dallas' policy of overworking its LEOs to the point that they have a bunch of zombies who are completely incapable of determining who to shoot.

[Captainant 27,680]

7 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

That defense would seem to call into question Dallas' policy of overworking its LEOs to the point that they have a bunch of zombies who are completely incapable of determining who to shoot.

some might consider that a feature and not a bug

[Orange&White 5,528]

1 hour ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

That defense would seem to call into question Dallas' policy of overworking its LEOs to the point that they have a bunch of zombies who are completely incapable of determining who to shoot.

It sounds as though they will have open season to go into any apartment they want and do just that.

The blueprint will be meticulously laid out and an established legal precedent as the cherry on top.

Edited August 19, 2019 by Orange&White

[Fuck Tim Beck 3,834]

1 hour ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

That defense would seem to call into question Dallas' policy of overworking its LEOs to the point that they have a bunch of zombies who are completely incapable of determining who to shoot.

All part of the plan. Cops gonna shoot everybody!