Dallas officer kills man after mistaking apartment for her own, police say

[Gene Parmesan 4062]

I don't think the story is that it was cracked it just wasn't latched.  From the outside it would appear to be a normal closed door but any pressure to push it open would have opened it.

[hopkinsnhorns 533]

Her keys were in the door.  When you insert a non-coded key into that digital lock, it beeps and flashes red to show that the key has been denied.  Even before she pushed open that unlatched door, you can add those indicators as another piece of evidence she was oblivious too before she pushed that door open and killed the lawfully residing occupant, in addition to the bright red door mat that she was necessarily standing on that was not hers.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18913]

17 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

What I see coming out of this is a pretty easy script for killing a member of your family.  Tell your wife you hear a noise in the middle of the night.  You both get up to check, you tell her to go check the front room, you check the back (with your Glock).  And then you shoot her.  Easy story: we both got up to look for an intruder.  In the dark, I mistook her for an intruder.  I feel awful, oh my God, this is terrible.

And sometime after you're no-billed, you are off fucking your 27 yr old office assistant in Aruba.

[immortal13 4059]

[irishtexan 11692]

1 minute ago, immortal13 said:

Fuck. That. Cunt.

[TXSooner518 2455]

11 minutes ago, hopkinsnhorns said:

Her keys were in the door.  When you insert a non-coded key into that digital lock, it beeps and flashes red to show that the key has been denied.  Even before she pushed open that unlatched door, you can add those indicators as another piece of evidence she was oblivious too before she pushed that door open and killed the lawfully residing occupant, in addition to the bright red door mat that she was necessarily standing on that was not hers.

The keys in the door go to this point, and also to the fact that the door wasn't obviously open. I think if the door was obviously open, her actions are even more unreasonable in the apartment, as you have time to think and prepare a bit, rather than being completely surprised.

[Vic Mackey 47849]

7 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

Yep I remember this. Fuck this murdering cunt bitch. This is the mentality of so many of law enforcement. They feel they are above the law on and off duty. And hell why wouldn't they with how much they get away with.

[Vic Mackey 47849]

1 hour ago, CHEF DIESEL said:

Guyger shot another person six months before this incident. Is there a background on that? Can't find anything of substance online.

Any more on this? I never heard about this and could not find any thing on it. 

[hopkinsnhorns 533]

Defense was emphasizing Jean being 13-15' from the doorway.  I'd bet $1000 they're going to use the 21' rule of police engagement in their defense.

[Huckleberry 34407]

Do we know for sure that she tried her key in the lock? I agree with many people on this thread that jurors will have different takes on people obliviously entering the wrong apartment, but if you keep piling on warning signs at some point most or all jurors will start to wonder.

Bright red doormat (did her apartment have a doormat at all? I don't recall), tried her key and it didn't work and she was beeped at with a red light indicating as much, opens the door and the apartment smells different (and smell actually is a really big deal because it triggers our brains more powerfully than other senses), if the apartment is dark then it's obvious on the wall she's facing that the layout has door-wall-window instead of door-window-wall based on light coming in from outside.

If all those things are true then the number of things that would have caused a reasonable person to pause and verify the situation is starting to get pretty large.

[Vic Mackey 47849]

Just now, Huckleberry said:

Do we know for sure that she tried her key in the lock? I agree with many people on this thread that jurors will have different takes on people obliviously entering the wrong apartment, but if you keep piling on warning signs at some point most or all jurors will start to wonder.

Bright red doormat (did her apartment have a doormat at all? I don't recall), tried her key and it didn't work and she was beeped at with a red light indicating as much, opens the door and the apartment smells different (and smell actually is a really big deal because it triggers our brains more powerfully than other senses), if the apartment is dark then it's obvious on the wall she's facing that the layout has door-wall-window instead of door-window-wall based on light coming in from outside.

If all those things are true then the number of things that would have caused a reasonable person to pause and verify the situation is starting to get pretty large.

This is an old tweet. This account tweeted a lot about the case when it first happened. Doesn't seem to have posted anything about since, though. It's just the little things that keep adding up. 

 

 

[hopkinsnhorns 533]

My only issue is that the shooting occurred at roughly 9:50PM.  There should not have been a lot of ambient light entering the apartment, even less so if the shades were drawn.

[bernorange 8385]

I guess the prosecution isn't angling for a premeditated murder, so they haven't presented any evidence about Guyger's supposed noise complaint (against Jean) earlier in that same day, have they?

[Huckleberry 34407]

Just now, hopkinsnhorns said:

My only issue is that the shooting occurred at roughly 9:50PM.  There should not have been a lot of ambient light entering the apartment, even less so if the shades were drawn.

It's not bright, but you can tell where the window is with light coming in from outside.

[Huckleberry 34407]

1 minute ago, Vic Mackey said:

This is an old tweet. This account tweeted a lot about the case when it first happened. Doesn't seem to have posted anything about since, though. It's just the little things that keep adding up. 

 

 

Is that real? I guess add "didn't walk by big ass tree" to the list.

[TXSooner518 2455]

6 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Do we know for sure that she tried her key in the lock? 

Yes. Her keys are still hanging in the lock in the videos and pics from the scene.

[Vic Mackey 47849]

2 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Is that real? I guess add "didn't walk by big ass tree" to the list.

Not sure honestly. 

I wonder if there is any video/pics out there about the walk to her apartment vs the walk to his. And how many noticeable differences there are. Apartments are built to look the same on each floor but most have differences here and there you can spot and can trigger into your brain that you are not on the right floor. 

[Orange&White 5563]

Just now, Vic Mackey said:

Not sure honestly. 

I wonder if there is any video/pics out there about the walk to her apartment vs the walk to his. And how many noticeable differences there are. Apartments are built to look the same on each floor but most have differences here and there you can spot and can trigger into your brain that you are not on the right floor. 

There were some posted here yesterday.

[hopkinsnhorns 533]

They showed those videos.  The tree thingy was there.  There's also different distinctive floor mats on each floor, but if you didn't even recognize the bright red floormat that magically showed up outside of "your" door, I doubt you would recognize those other inconsistencies.

[Vic Mackey 47849]

Just now, hopkinsnhorns said:

They showed those videos.  The tree thingy was there.  There's also different distinctive floor mats on each floor, but if you didn't even recognize the bright red floormat that magically showed up outside of "your" door, I doubt you would recognize those other inconsistencies.

Gotcha. I haven't been able to keep up with every single thing that has been posted here and just online in general. I figured there had to be some differences here and there.

[Vic Mackey 47849]

Also went back to the start of the thread just to browse and see if anything was posted that I forgot about. This is raw footage after the incident happened for anyone who forgot about it. 

 

[Vic Mackey 47849]

7 minutes ago, Orange&White said:

There were some posted here yesterday.

I saw the pics of the layouts and the inside of both of their apartments. Were there also pics of what the hallways of both floors looked like leading up to their respective apartments? 

[Chilly Water 421]

Earlier today they showed video shot by a TX Ranger walking from the 3rd level of the parking garage to Guyers apartment and then walking from the 4th level to Jeans. It was evident in the video and confirmed by his testimony that there were no red welcome mats on her floor and the only one on Jeans floor was the one in front of his door. 

Edited September 26, 2019 by Chilly Water

[Constant 6844]

3 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

I saw the pics of the layouts and the inside of both of their apartments. Were there also pics of what the hallways of both floors looked like leading up to their respective apartments? 

A Ranger testified earlier today with videos of a complete walkthrough of each respective floor. 

[Vic Mackey 47849]

3 minutes ago, Constant said:

A Ranger testified earlier today with videos of a complete walkthrough of each respective floor. 

Ok thanks. Haven't gotten a chance to watch any of the livestream of the trial today. 

[Constant 6844]

Just now, Vic Mackey said:

Ok thanks. Haven't gotten a chance to watch any of the livestream of the trial today. 

I forget his name but he’s fairly early in todays proceedings. 

[Guest Lobo]

I never really thought about how valuable the practice of some buildings painting the elevator bank area a different color from floor-to-floor.  i thought it was convenient for purposes of "which floor did I park on/do I live on?" kinda shit.  Now I realize it could actually save lives, or at least make murders harder to commit.

In completely unrelated news, Dallas Police officers are, going forward, only allowed to live in apartment buildings with the same paint color, floormats, and plants on every single level. 

[hayden_horn 11401]

so, let's just entertain she zombies her way to the door with the bright red floormat and she put her keys in the door, presumably looking down to do so, and still not seeing the bright red mat, and pushes open the door. the tv is on and a guy looks over from the couch.  the guy starts to rise.

BANG BANG.

that is some shit, in my opinion. that's the murder. hell, anyone can make a mistake. it was her going from 0 to dying guy in 2 seconds that makes it a murder, in my opinion.

[hopkinsnhorns 533]

If you were paying attention earlier in the trial, they walked through a detailed timeline of the events.  Guyger was on her phone with Sex Cop while driving home.  She entered the parking garage a few minutes before another resident, Ronald so-and-so.  However, Ronald parked and was gathering his work stuff and leaving his car when he noticed her speeding around the corner of the parking garage in her Ram pickup on the 4th level.  This means that she must have pulled over or parked in a lower level before going to her eventual parking space.  What was going on that required her to park on a lower level?  Where did she stop and for what purpose?  Did she have to pull over to diddle herself while chatting with Sex Cop?  Is any of this relevant?

[woohorn 1131]

Always had respect for Texas Rangers, esp. compared to local LEOs, but if it is true that they recommended that Dallas didn't charge her with a crime, something is wrong, imo.

[hopkinsnhorns 533]

6 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

so, let's just entertain she zombies her way to the door with the bright red floormat and she put her keys in the door, presumably looking down to do so, and still not seeing the bright red mat, and pushes open the door. the tv is on and a guy looks over from the couch.  the guy starts to rise.

BANG BANG.

that is some shit, in my opinion. that's the murder. hell, anyone can make a mistake. it was her going from 0 to dying guy in 2 seconds that makes it a murder, in my opinion.

Don't forget that in the time immediately following the deadly gun shots, she spent more time texting Sex Cop and repeatedly proclaiming her tiredness to the 911 operator instead of actually rendering the first aid she would be expected to do if she arrived at the scene of any other shooting.  I don't think Botham Jean had to die that day if she had actually made attempts to stop the bleeding until further medical assistance could arrive.

[TXSooner518 2455]

3 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

so, let's just entertain she zombies her way to the door with the bright red floormat and she put her keys in the door, presumably looking down to do so, and still not seeing the bright red mat, and pushes open the door. the tv is on and a guy looks over from the couch.  the guy starts to rise.

BANG BANG.

that is some shit, in my opinion. that's the murder. hell, anyone can make a mistake. it was her going from 0 to dying guy in 2 seconds that makes it a murder, in my opinion.

But, when you think about it, her only other options would be:

1) Retreat into the hallway through the open door directly behind you and make lots of noise banging on other doors, alerting the dozens of other people who live in the building, and using your police radio to immediately summon LE

2) Announce "Dallas Police Freeze" and then ask what they are doing there, possibly brandishing your gun and/or using your police radio to immediately summon LE

3) If necessary, use your mace and/or Taser to disable the "suspect", then using your police radio to immediately summon LE

Clearly, none of those are reasonable, gotta be BANG BANG. After all, she's already dressed in black.

[TXSooner518 2455]

3 minutes ago, hopkinsnhorns said:

Don't forget that in the time immediately following the deadly gun shots, she spent more time texting Sex Cop and repeatedly proclaiming her tiredness to the 911 operator instead of actually rendering the first aid she would be expected to do if she arrived at the scene of any other shooting.  I don't think Botham Jean had to die that day if she had actually made attempts to stop the bleeding until further medical assistance could arrive.

I think he was going to be dead following the shot based on the ME testimony, but of course she didn't know the extent of internal injuries while she was busy proclaiming her innocence and texting instead of providing aid. 

Edited September 26, 2019 by TXSooner518

[Constant 6844]

15 minutes ago, TXSooner518 said:

But, when you think about it, her only other options would be:

1) Retreat into the hallway through the open door directly behind you and make lots of noise banging on other doors, alerting the dozens of other people who live in the building, and using your police radio to immediately summon LE

2) Announce "Dallas Police Freeze" and then ask what they are doing there, possibly brandishing your gun and/or using your police radio to immediately summon LE

3) If necessary, use your mace and/or Taser to disable the "suspect", then using your police radio to immediately summon LE

Clearly, none of those are reasonable, gotta be BANG BANG. After all, she's already dressed in black.

It’s a really dark blue. 

[El Diablo 4232]

1 hour ago, Huckleberry said:

Do we know for sure that she tried her key in the lock? I agree with many people on this thread that jurors will have different takes on people obliviously entering the wrong apartment, but if you keep piling on warning signs at some point most or all jurors will start to wonder.

Bright red doormat (did her apartment have a doormat at all? I don't recall), tried her key and it didn't work and she was beeped at with a red light indicating as much, opens the door and the apartment smells different (and smell actually is a really big deal because it triggers our brains more powerfully than other senses), if the apartment is dark then it's obvious on the wall she's facing that the layout has door-wall-window instead of door-window-wall based on light coming in from outside.

If all those things are true then the number of things that would have caused a reasonable person to pause and verify the situation is starting to get pretty large.

I've spent enough nights in hotels where I've had to put the card in the reader several times to get the door to unlatch. I don't know if that was enough to make me look at the door number to see if I had the wrong room. Honestly don't recall but probably not.

[TXSooner518 2455]

4 minutes ago, Constant said:

It’s a really dark blue. 

I would pay to see this as the first response to her social media post on that.

[hayden_horn 11401]

12 minutes ago, Constant said:

It’s a really dark blue. 

maybe you've commented on this or maybe not, or maybe you don't want to, but i'm compelled to ask: what would proper and responsible procedure have been for her in this situation, assuming it was her apartment?

[hookem17 485]

The red floor mat has finally made it into evidence. 

[Constant 6844]

3 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

maybe you've commented on this or maybe not, or maybe you don't want to, but i'm compelled to ask: what would proper and responsible procedure have been for her in this situation, assuming it was her apartment?

I’ll comment on that when the trial is over. It’s not appropriate for me at this time. 

[HOOKEM4 5152]

The State rest. 

[hayden_horn 11401]

7 minutes ago, Constant said:

I’ll comment on that when the trial is over. It’s not appropriate for me at this time. 

That's fair enough. 

[Constant 6844]

4 minutes ago, HOOKEM4 said:

The State rest. 

I thought they did a good job presenting their case. The testimony from neighbors got redundant to me but I understand their significance. 

[Lou 264]

WFAA is saying Amber Guyger is the first witness up.

[hopkinsnhorns 533]

2 minutes ago, Lou said:

WFAA is saying Amber Guyger is the first witness up.

[Skipper 6406]

1 minute ago, Lou said:

WFAA is saying Amber Guyger is the first witness up.

Very interesting.  

[HOOKEM4 5152]

[HRSchenker 2331]

10 minutes ago, Lou said:

WFAA is saying Amber Guyger is the first witness up.

Holy shit. I think that says all that we need to know about how confident her camp is in acquittal. 

[Trey3216 15450]

[Skipper 6406]

1 minute ago, HRSchenker said:

Holy shit. I think that says all that we need to know about how confident her camp is in acquittal. 

And how good of a witness they think she will be.  Prosecution better be nails on their cross because we can all imagine the picture she's about to paint.

[hookem17 485]

How long until she starts crying. O/U 5 min.