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Dallas officer kills man after mistaking apartment for her own, police say

'stache

By 'stache
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Red Six

Red Six 131

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, thestud said:

I’m no lawyer, but I thought they usually charge you with the most immediately easy to prove and then work on building a stronger case for more serious charges. Or something like that

They usually try to hit you with the most serious charge, then use that as leverage in negotiations.

The facts here support murder. A Dallas city councilman tweeted that they tried to get a manslaughter warrant from a Dallas judge (unclear as to whether municipal or county), but the judge wouldn't sign for that charge; the judge said that the offense was murder.

I'm wondering if the Rangers didn't judge shop to Mesquite or Seagoville, and that's why she ended up in the Kaufman County jail.

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Constant
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First off I’d like to say that I’m heartbroken for the Jean family. As a parent myself, I hope Mr. Jean’s father and mother find some peace in the outcome. They appear to be a wonderful family that ra

SubliminalHorn
SubliminalHorn

Just relax the throat and stay in rhythm 

4th&Five
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Gene Parmesan

Gene Parmesan 4064

Posted
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1 minute ago, C-Man said:

Any word as to whether she lived there alone or had a roommate? That *might* explain the banging on the door saying "Open up!" as a witness reported -- if her key wasn't working in the door. And she was shit-hammered. And etc, etc, etc.

I've read that the key didn't work and the victim came to the door, and I've read it was unlocked and she walked in.  Has one of these been verified yet?

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C-Man

C-Man 27777

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4 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

I've read that the key didn't work and the victim came to the door, and I've read it was unlocked and she walked in.  Has one of these been verified yet?

DMN reporting the door was unlocked. I hadn't seen that before.

Quote

The door was unlocked and the lights were out, according to the official. Guyger opened the door and saw a figure in the darkness. She fired at him twice, the official said, thinking he was a burglar.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/2018/09/10/watch-family-botham-jean-discusses-charge-dallas-officer-killed

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AbeFroman

AbeFroman 3112

Posted
Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Any word as to whether she lived there alone or had a roommate? That *might* explain the banging on the door saying "Open up!" as a witness reported -- if her key wasn't working in the door. And she was shit-hammered. And etc, etc, etc.

His neighbor that shares a wall and new him says she didn't hear a commotion or loud yelling.  Obviously heard the two gun shots.

And I live in an apartment and my door is unlocked about ninety percent of the time while I'm at home, never really crosses my mind.  

Edited by AbeFroman
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staboner

staboner 5084

Posted
Posted (edited)

I've said this many times, but I think it really rings true here

Police are walking basket cases - in a war between them and us. They are anxiety ridden to a point that I am genuinely fearful of their flight or flight response. This situation to me is a wound up cop having her fight or flight triggered in a second and she flips out and start shooting. 

This is a serious mental health problem. Our policeman are walking around half mad. 

RIP. terrible fucking story

Edited by staboner
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C-Man

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12 minutes ago, staboner said:

I've said this many times, but I think it really rings true here

Police are walking basket cases - in a war between them and us. They are anxiety ridden to a point that I am genuinely fearful of their flight or flight response. This situation to me is a wound up cop having her fight or flight triggered in a second and she flips out and start shooting. 

This is a serious mental health problem. Our policeman are walking around half mad. 

RIP. terrible fucking story

Amen to that. Shit. I also don't know if being involved in another office-related shooting matters in this case or she just got unlucky but she does seem awful quick on the trigger.

His front door being unlocked is very interesting to me. I certainly don't see that it absolves her in this instance but I can very easily see how it might've gone down at this point.

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4th and 5

4th and 5 5000

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2 hours ago, Red Six said:

They usually try to hit you with the most serious charge, then use that as leverage in negotiations.

The facts here support murder. A Dallas city councilman tweeted that they tried to get a manslaughter warrant from a Dallas judge (unclear as to whether municipal or county), but the judge wouldn't sign for that charge; the judge said that the offense was murder.

I'm wondering if the Rangers didn't judge shop to Mesquite or Seagoville, and that's why she ended up in the Kaufman County jail.

It is a murder for the reasons I stated above, a specific intent to cause his death with a mistaken belief of the justification of self defense.

Once there is a warrant she can turn herself in anywhere. She chose the Kaufman county jail.

 

 

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Mojo Hand

Mojo Hand 4580

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Seems to me that it should be murder, based on the reported facts.  Even if it had been her apartment, and an unarmed black dude was inside, there's no way that instantly shooting him from the hallway was a reasonable response.  She intended to kill him, and has no valid or minimizing justification for it. 

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LongestHorn

LongestHorn 772

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The official, who spoke to the Dallas Morning News on condition of anonymity, said Officer Amber Guyger had just ended a 15-hour shift when she parked on the fourth level of the South Side Flats garage Thursday night. She normally parked on the third level. The officials said Guyger, a four-year veteran of the force, then went to the door she thought was hers but was one floor too high. Guyger didn’t notice that Jean's door had a red doormat, the official said told the Morning News. Guyger put her key in the unlocked door and it opened, the official said. The official said Guyger told investigators she entered the dark apartment, saw someone inside and thought it was a burglary. Guyger said she pulled her gun and fired twice, the officials said.

Failing to notice the red doormat is a figurtive red flag literally at her feet.

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Trey3216

Trey3216 15452

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, LongestHorn said:

She parked on the 4th floor, thinking it was the 3rd floor, will be her story.  Does her parking garage not have the floor clearly posted when she walked from her car to the building?  She just didn't notice that either?

Texting and walking seems to be as dangerous as texting and driving...

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DigDug

DigDug 1738

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

Seems to me that it should be murder, based on the reported facts.  Even if it had been her apartment, and an unarmed black dude was inside, there's no way that instantly shooting him from the hallway was a reasonable response.  She intended to kill him, and has no valid or minimizing justification for it. 

I think we all know if it had happened to be her apartment, and someone else was in there, there's not a jury in Texas that would convict her.  Doubt she would have ever even faced charges.

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Reagan1k

Reagan1k 3042

Posted
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27 minutes ago, miguelito said:

Has anyone else noticed that supposedly she shot twice at close range, and hit the guy once?

"That's some fine police work, Lou."

The stats on close quarters gun-fights with handguns are remarkable to some.....adrenaline plays a huge factor.

Average number of hits is usually around 25%-40% even within 10 yards.  Statistics vary but more shots miss than hit.

Normally it is a 3-3-3 rule - 3 shots / 3 seconds / 3 yards is the average for an officer involved shooting.

The fact that she killed him firing only 2 shots is actually more surprising than the fact that one shot missed.

 

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Chewbacca

Chewbacca 7829

Posted
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1 hour ago, LongestHorn said:

She parked on the 4th floor, thinking it was the 3rd floor, will be her story.  Does her parking garage not have the floor clearly posted when she walked from her car to the building?  She just didn't notice that either?

Dude, she was fucking tired from working ALL DAY.  For more than one day in a row!

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bernorange

bernorange 8385

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, Reagan1k said:

The stats on close quarters gun-fights with handguns are remarkable to some.....adrenaline plays a huge factor.

Average number of hits is usually around 25%-40% even within 10 yards.  ..

You meant 10 feet, right?  At 10 yards (30 feet), missing 75% shots with a pistol would not be surprising at all.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 106874

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38 minutes ago, Reagan1k said:

The stats on close quarters gun-fights with handguns are remarkable to some.....adrenaline plays a huge factor.

Average number of hits is usually around 25%-40% even within 10 yards.  Statistics vary but more shots miss than hit.

Normally it is a 3-3-3 rule - 3 shots / 3 seconds / 3 yards is the average for an officer involved shooting.

The fact that she killed him firing only 2 shots is actually more surprising than the fact that one shot missed.

 

My uncle was an ATF agent on the border.  He told a tale of one of his colleagues getting into a gunfight with a suspect around a gas station pump island.  Distances of less than 10 feet.  Both guys emptied their weapons without hitting the other.  Agent was able to reload, bad guy surrendered.  But trained agent, unloaded a mag and couldn't hit suspect at 10 feet.  To be fair, he was getting shot at and simultaneously shitting his pants.  The point is, when you're in the thick of it, you ain't exactly a deadeye.

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Reagan1k

Reagan1k 3042

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11 minutes ago, bernorange said:

You meant 10 feet, right?  At 10 yards (30 feet), missing 75% shots with a pistol would not be surprising at all.

If she had squared him up with center mass hits on both shots I'd be more inclined to think intentional.

It's a bit anecdotal but sometimes the best gauge as to whether an office was truly in fear for their life in a shooting is the hit ratio.  Show me a 1-5 shoot vs a 5-5 shoot and I'll show you the difference between fear and aggression -  

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3adays

3adays 454

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, Auto Driller said:

Another element of this story that’s hard to believe -

The victim is in his apartment in total darkness? Unlocked door, lights off, wandering around?

He was from St. Lucia, probably grew up never locking doors. Guy gets awaken from the noise and sleepily walks into trigger happy cops gunfire. 

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