Dallas officer kills man after mistaking apartment for her own, police say

[TwiceHorn 32,002]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

And that's fair.

You gotta admit.....that the fine folks of Dallas did NOT side with a cop over a pot smoking black man surprises you, at least a little bit, correct?

I was open minded, and encouraged by the Balch Springs verdict.

I felt like once Creuzot's office took over, everything would be according to Hoyle (not an Irish cop).

Hell, I wasn't sure they would convict either until the noises.  And even then.  But, I did have faith that they would do it according to the evidence and not according to prejudice (either in favor of the popo or against black men from the Caribbean who indulge in the ganj).

I haven't lost all my faith in my fellow citizens, although I wonder sometimes if the extreme of your loss of faith is the better view.  I will take this as a hopeful data point that it is not.

Edited October 1, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[Brisketexan 106,678]

1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

I was open minded, and encouraged by the Balch Springs verdict.

I felt like once Creuzot's office took over, everything would be according to Hoyle (not an Irish cop).

Hell, I wasn't sure they would convict either until the noises.  And even then.  But, I did have faith that they would do it according to the evidence.

I admit, I didn't think that a Dallas jury would look past the evidentiary facts of 1) black man 2) smoking pot.  I thought those were insurmountably prejudicial.  I was wrong.  Happy to be wrong, but still wrong.

[Native Horn 3,571]

Wouldn't that depend upon the demographics of the jury?

[Chewbacca 7,827]

1 hour ago, SA-KC_Horn said:

The fact she admitted to hearing noises before entering and not rendering aid, should be 10+ yrs.

She wanted to be a cop so she could help people.  Except the guy she shot in his own apartment.  Fuck that guy.  She's not helping him.

[Continental Op 3,934]

I admit, I didn't think that a Dallas jury would look past the evidentiary facts of 1) black man 2) smoking pot.  I thought those were insurmountably prejudicial.  I was wrong.  Happy to be wrong, but still wrong.

Jesus dude it's not like they were trying the case in Williamson County or something. Dallas County isn't NYC or anything but it's not Vidor either.

[TwiceHorn 32,002]

1 minute ago, Continental Op said:

6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I admit, I didn't think that a Dallas jury would look past the evidentiary facts of 1) black man 2) smoking pot.  I thought those were insurmountably prejudicial.  I was wrong.  Happy to be wrong, but still wrong.

Jesus dude it's not like they were trying the case in Williamson County or something. Dallas County isn't NYC or anything but it's not Vidor either.

Not all that long ago it did have a pretty bad record, led along a primrose path by people like Henry Wade that were willing to prey on the baser instincts.

[irishtexan 11,692]

16 minutes ago, GotThatFire said:

Did she dye her hair blonde?

Blondes have more fun!

Balch Springs cop got 15 years. What that guy did seems "worse". I'd wager she gets 10 and serves 5. Personally 20/10 feels more appropriate.

[Brisketexan 106,678]

3 minutes ago, Continental Op said:

8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I admit, I didn't think that a Dallas jury would look past the evidentiary facts of 1) black man 2) smoking pot.  I thought those were insurmountably prejudicial.  I was wrong.  Happy to be wrong, but still wrong.

Jesus dude it's not like they were trying the case in Williamson County or something. Dallas County isn't NYC or anything but it's not Vidor either.

 

Just now, TwiceHorn said:

Not all that long ago it did have a pretty bad record, led along a primrose path by people like Henry Wade that were willing to prey on the baser instincts.

^^^^

This.

And forgive me if my faith in my fellow Texans doing the right thing is rather limited these days.

[DaysOff 8,158]

Hell of an impressive young man listening to his mom.

[hopkinsnhorns 533]

She definitely chose the wrong minority to indiscriminately kill.  Her life couldn't hold a flame to his...

[Gene Parmesan 4,062]

Is it customary for jurors to give their opinions after the case?  I am curious on how they reached their decision and if it was like me that hearing noises prior to entering is what turned the case.  Had the fact pattern been showing up at the wrong door and opening, and then seeing a possible intruder I wonder what their stance would be.  Not guilty I suppose?  Seems the law dogs who posted in this thread were alluding to.

[Ghost of LL 15,674]

 

31 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

And that's fair.

You gotta admit.....that the fine folks of Dallas did NOT side with a cop over a pot smoking black man surprises you, at least a little bit, correct?

On these facts.  No, not really.  

It's not Henry Wade's Dallas anymore.  The Dallas of my youth, when Henry Wade and Bill Hill were the DA?  There's no way she'd even be prosecuted.

But the Dallas of today?  A conviction on these facts surprises me not one bit.

[El Diablo 4,232]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

And I don't think my assessment was wrong, until....

....the decision to enter AFTER she knew something was off.  That was the bombshell piece of evidence.  None of us knew about it, it was nowhere in the official narrative that was out there pre-trial.

And the point about numerous DPD officers acting improperly in trying to frame the case and the issues during the investigative stage stands as a pretty damned important one.  I suspect the evidence and testimony would have been MORE damning had her fellow officers not assisted with an attempted cover-up, given her a chance to get her story straight, etc.

But I was wrong about my predicted outcome, you bet.  I did NOT see the admission that she knew something was up before she went inside coming.

Horse shit. You didn't care what the evidence was, you were going with your "gut" regardless. Just admit it and move on.

[Chewbacca 7,827]

5 minutes ago, El Diablo said:

Horse shit. You didn't care what the evidence was, you were going with your "gut" regardless. Just admit it and move on.

And his gut feel was based on a long history in this country of police officers getting away with killing people fairly regularly.  

[Brisketexan 106,678]

4 minutes ago, El Diablo said:

Horse shit. You didn't care what the evidence was, you were going with your "gut" regardless. Just admit it and move on.

My gut was that the jury would do what many Texans do - go with their gut, damn the evidence.  A pot-smoking black man got shot by a cop.  In Texas, that's a tough hill to climb for a murder conviction.  Not because of the law, but because Texans.  Add to that the fact that I saw NO piece of evidence that looked powerful enough to overcome that inclination, yep, I called it like I saw it.

As for what my gut told me a jury would do with the pot-smoking black guy who got shot by a cop....forgive me if I don't think too highly of the fine white folk of North Texas.  Pay no mind to the fact that one of 'em just went through the effort to drive all the way to El Paso to murder some brown people.

My gut didn't get this verdict right.  But it also knew that it was just a matter of time before someone like many members of this jury pool went beaner-hunting.  On such matters, I'll still give my gut a strong vote.  Glad the evidence proved otherwise here.

[HOOKEM4 5,152]

1 minute ago, El Diablo said:

Horse shit. You didn't care what the evidence was, you were going with your "gut" regardless. Just admit it and move on.

Just move on.

[Fuck Tim Beck 3,892]

I wonder if sex cop will be making conjugal visits to Gatesville. 

[Constant 6,844]

3 hours ago, hopkinsnhorns said:

Where is @Constant?  Verdict is rendered, so now he can give his opinion, right?

First off I’d like to say that I’m heartbroken for the Jean family. As a parent myself, I hope Mr. Jean’s father and mother find some peace in the outcome. They appear to be a wonderful family that raised an exceptional young man. 

I think in the time between the offense and the trial beginning I had given the defendant a benefit of doubt, for lack of a better term. I saw it as a tragic mistake, but I didn’t see it as a criminal offense. I knew a detail or two, but I was as unaware of most facts of the case as you all were. 

I think the first turn of the tide for me was seeing that first body camera video and the position of Mr. Jean’s body. In my head leading into the trial, I saw this incident occurring much closer to the front door. I expected him to be in that narrow corridor leading towards the entry area of the apartment. His actual position was quite shocking as he was no where near the front door. Regardless of whether he was seated when she made entry or not, I don’t understand how she perceived a threat. 

I can understand and almost see myself making the mistakes that led her to Mr. Jean’s door. I don’t live in an apartment, but there have been plenty of days where I pull into my driveway and don’t recall the actual drive itself. So all the easy, dumb signs she missed, I can understand. But every single action from her after that door opened were unreasonable and unjustifiable, in my opinion. There was no reason to enter if she believed there was an intruder prior to entering. She believed she was on the third floor. There is only one way for a suspect to escape as we do not live in a Hollywood world and he isn’t going to scale the side of the building. Pull back, call for help...be done. 

That aside, she goes inside still. She then makes the fatal mistake of shooting before probably any rational thought goes through her head. I don’t see how she perceived him a deadly threat(other than his mere presence) because she didn’t allow time to perceive anything at all. We all understand the significance of that mistake. 

Her selfishness after that fact also bothers me. She called for help as she should have but she abandoned all other responsibilities. Fucking focus and do what you can, however you can. It ultimately would not have changed the outcome but it did herself no favors essentially ignoring Mr. Jean while texting and talking on the phone. 

I’m glad she will be facing some consequences and I am in no minority there.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Constant

[Brisketexan 106,678]

^^^^

Thanks for sharing that, Constant.

And I do genuinely hope that almost all of your fellow officers feel similarly.

You will, of course, understand if some of us retain healthy skepticism.  That said, it heartens me to hear it from at least one.  So thank you for that, truly.

[Gooby 642]

Legals....

Will they try to button up the punishment phase today?

 

 

[Ghost of LL 15,674]

10 minutes ago, Constant said:

I’m glad she will be facing some consequences and I am in no minority there.

You think?

That's an honest question--no sarcasm?  I'm honestly curious about what the reaction is and is going to be.

[RPM 26,573]

When does this end?

When MLK is dead...

[Tailgate 3,056]

This guy was truly an all-star person who was killed totally unnecessarily.

I’m doubling down on 10+ years.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Tailgate

[Bruh Man 3,160]

Angelic man killed by another racist police officer. 

[Constant 6,844]

2 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

You think?

That's an honest question--no sarcasm?  I'm honestly curious about what the reaction is and is going to be.

I can only offer anecdotal information but everyone in my circle sees it the same. I don’t know what will be made official. But I don’t want to live in a world where something like this is okay. 

[Skipper 6,406]

I just caught the end of that but were those all the texts?  I was expecting a lot worse.

[hookem17 485]

The texts about the dog were confusing but I think she admitted to being racist?

[Ghost of LL 15,674]

10 minutes ago, Gooby said:

Legals....

Will they try to button up the punishment phase today?

 

 

You better believe the jury will.

[Orange&White 5,566]

I want to clarify my earlier belief that I would "take the under on 10 years". She may well be sentenced to more than ten years, but I don't think she will serve 10 years.

[hookem17 485]

 

[RPM 26,573]

Rolling out the Facebook memes she posted.

[hopkinsnhorns 533]

I've stated my hypothesis that she gets 10 years on FB.  My black friends (and their black friends) do not agree and want much more time.
 

Quote

If the sentence is too light, the verdict means nothing...

Quote

the length matters just as much. He is gone FOREVER. She deserves to have her life forever changed, even if it was possibly a mistake. 10 years means nothing. She is young and will go back to life like without much consequences because she’s white and a woman. It needs to be longer

My response:
 

Quote

What we have in play is a difference in opinion re: the role of incarceration in our criminal justice system. If we want to go all Hammurabi's Code, eye for an eye, then she should get 99 years.

However, I don't think that letting someone unlikely to re-offend a violent crime rot in jail is a good use of our prisons or that life, regardless of the mistakes that person made. I'm a big advocate for rehabilitation, which for her would likely involve understanding why she made the decision to resort to violence when violence was not necessitated by the circumstances she found herself in and rehabilitating those violent tendencies.

She is guilty of her crime, but should not be unjustly punished for the crimes of her peers that avoided prosecution.

 

[hopkinsnhorns 533]

Yeah, those memes will not do her any favors.  Ooof.

[hookem17 485]

 

2 minutes ago, hopkinsnhorns said:

Yeah, those memes will not do her any favors.  Ooof.

 

[Cajun 11,771]

18 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

^^^^

Thanks for sharing that, Constant.

And I do genuinely hope that almost all of your fellow officers feel similarly.

You will, of course, understand if some of us retain healthy skepticism.  That said, it heartens me to hear it from at least one.  So thank you for that, truly.

Seconded

[0xdeadbeef 1,696]

As everyone agrees, the fact that turned the trial was when she said she heard someone inside before going in.   

Assuming she told her defense attorneys, what options did her defense attorney have?   Could they tell her to lie about that and help craft a better story?   Or is that not officially allowed and their only real option was to own it, or keep her off the stand?     

[smuggs 9,394]

Is this a pants-adjustment break for the judge? Something is going on under that robe.

 

[Ghost of LL 15,674]

For the record, I put the number at 40 years in a conversation with Brisket before the texts started coming out.

I'm sticking with that number.

[Homercles 10,206]

6 minutes ago, hookem17 said:

 

Deleted, deleted, deleted...

[hayden_horn 11,402]

yikes. 

i mean, i'm not sure i want johnny law going through all my texts and jokes with my friends, because it's so easy to take things out of context.

but jesus, lady. not a great look for a police officer.

[hopkinsnhorns 533]

"hopkinsnhorns, can you explain why there was an abundance of transexual pornographic images in your group text message?"

"My friends are sick, sick fucks."

[Fuck Tim Beck 3,892]

4 minutes ago, smuggs said:

Is this a pants-adjustment break for the judge? Something is going on under that robe.

 

Fupa adjustment ? 

[Bruh Man 3,160]

That Rivera POS better be off the force too after his racist comments were revealed.

[hopkinsnhorns 533]

Seriously, what is going on here?  I didn't hear a reason for the sidebar.

[RollLeft 5,091]

9 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

yikes. 

i mean, i'm not sure i want johnny law going through all my texts and jokes with my friends, because it's so easy to take things out of context.

but jesus, lady. not a great look for a police officer.

don't worry we all know what you really mean when you call someone a crackity ass cracka honky ass phaggot

[LongestHorn 772]

27 minutes ago, Constant said:

I can only offer anecdotal information but everyone in my circle sees it the same. I don’t know what will be made official. But I don’t want to live in a world where something like this is okay. 

Good on you.  Like McMasters in Tombstone.  Brothers to the bone?  

Not anymore.

Edited October 1, 2019 by LongestHorn

[hayden_horn 11,402]

45 minutes ago, Constant said:

First off I’d like to say that I’m heartbroken for the Jean family. As a parent myself, I hope Mr. Jean’s father and mother find some peace in the outcome. They appear to be a wonderful family that raised an exceptional young man. 

I think in the time between the offense and the trial beginning I had given the defendant a benefit of doubt, for lack of a better term. I saw it as a tragic mistake, but I didn’t see it as a criminal offense. I knew a detail or two, but I was as unaware of most facts of the case as you all were. 

I think the first turn of the tide for me was seeing that first body camera video and the position of Mr. Jean’s body. In my head leading into the trial, I saw this incident occurring much closer to the front door. I expected him to be in that narrow corridor leading towards the entry area of the apartment. His actual position was quite shocking as he was no where near the front door. Regardless of whether he was seated when she made entry or not, I don’t understand how she perceived a threat. 

I can understand and almost see myself making the mistakes that led her to Mr. Jean’s door. I don’t live in an apartment, but there have been plenty of days where I pull into my driveway and don’t recall the actual drive itself. So all the easy, dumb signs she missed, I can understand. But every single action from her after that door opened were unreasonable and unjustifiable, in my opinion. There was no reason to enter if she believed there was an intruder prior to entering. She believed she was on the third floor. There is only one way for a suspect to escape as we do not live in a Hollywood world and he isn’t going to scale the side of the building. Pull back, call for help...be done. 

That aside, she goes inside still. She then makes the fatal mistake of shooting before probably any rational thought goes through her head. I don’t see how she perceived him a deadly threat(other than his mere presence) because she didn’t allow time to perceive anything at all. We all understand the significance of that mistake. 

Her selfishness after that fact also bothers me. She called for help as she should have but she abandoned all other responsibilities. Fucking focus and do what you can, however you can. It ultimately would not have changed the outcome but it did herself no favors essentially ignoring Mr. Jean while texting and talking on the phone. 

I’m glad she will be facing some consequences and I am in no minority there.

man, what a great post. thanks for your take.

[High Plains Drifter 11,163]

3 hours ago, hopkinsnhorns said:

1) That is very inefficient and inconvenient to make them robe/disrobe at the station.  Not really feasible or necessary for anything.

2) They did use her training in de-escalation, protocols, CPR, etc against her in this case as she failed to follow her training.

Most damning bits came out in her cross-examination.  She admitted to hearing noises coming from her apartment before she entered.  She admitted that she intended to kill him when she engaged him.  Those two things likely convicted her.

 

Regarding 1): Inefficient and inconvenient to change clothes after a shit? What a load of horseshit.

 

[hopkinsnhorns 533]

What would them changing out of their uniform prior to returning home accomplish?

[hopkinsnhorns 533]

Looks like the hearing is done for the day, to resume tomorrow morning at 9:30am.