Dallas officer kills man after mistaking apartment for her own, police say

[PilotsError 2336]

Tell that to all the limp-dicked concealed carry Rambo wannabes.

Lol uh oh, an anti Gunner! Look out everyone.

[Fudge Nuggets 19453]

Just now, PilotsError said:

59 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Tell that to all the limp-dicked concealed carry Rambo wannabes.

Lol uh oh, an anti Gunner! Look out everyone.

I don’t mind guns, just the idiots that claim they would have ended any and all mass shootings in the blink of an eye due to their mad skillz.

[El Diablo 4232]

1 hour ago, Steel Shank said:

The warrant states she t that she's in the wrong apartment?urns on the light and when 911 operator asks where she is, she goes to the door to get the # and discovers she's in the wrong apartment. You mean turning on the light in someone else's apartment doesn't clue this idiot cop in that she's in the wrong apartment?

You may have missed the fact that SHE'D HAD A LONG DAY.

[Vic Mackey 47951]

Has her shift she just got off that day increased to 18 hours yet? Already went from 12 to 15.

[Lat22 4082]

12 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

Didn't she only hit him once? 

Once........twice...........three times a lady. 

[cabowabo 4685]

Did they not issue a flashlight to this dumb bitch?

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4999]

Do they not teach the whole "know your target and what lies beyond it" thing at the police academy?

[Neonmoon 38130]

Everyone knows someone or has heard of someone who has shown up to the wrong door. I’ve never heard of any of them ending in someone being shot. It’s just sad her mindset was 

He must be a criminal 

he didn’t follow my commands 

he must be shot. 

Normal people don’t think like that. They think whoa, who the fuck are you? Get out of my apartment. Oh this is your apartment? Wait where am I? Oh I’m sorry I’m an idiot 

 

 

[TwiceHorn 32071]

It's sad that this is going to turn into a racial police brutality thing.  Because it isn't.  Or if it is, it isn't like any you've ever seen before.  And I am not one to easily give cops a pass.

For fuck's sake, she shot the poor bastard in the dark before she could ascertain his race.

If there is anything broader to be drawn from it all, it is what kind of people are we training as cops and how are we training them.

Even if it went down exactly as recounted, I am  uncomfortable with the haste with which she drew her weapon and fired.  I don't think we have any way of knowing if it went down some other way.  The 911 call where she realizes it isn't her place would seem to be the key piece of evidence in corroborating her story.  If she sounds as devastated as most people would be to discover she is in the wrong apartment then it's as ok as it's ever going to get.

Edited September 11, 2018 by TwiceHorn

[Cheeseweasel 26439]

11 hours ago, Deej said:

What fucking basis did she have to give a legal command? Guy is in his domicile. She enters illegally. 

Bingo. If I'm the prosecutor, I'm making this the cornerstone of my case. This was not an arrest. This was B&E. If the shoe was on the other foot, the defendant would be facing the death penalty.

[Cheeseweasel 26439]

34 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Do they not teach the whole "know your target and what lies beyond it" thing at the police academy?

Is the answer "more perps"?

[lemonlime 5503]

It is about the way both police officers and black men are treated by the criminal justice system.  If a black man accidentally walked into the wrong apartment and killed a white female police officer, he would have been arrested immediately afterwards, charged with murder one, and face life in prison at the very least.  Hell, even if he was just caught with some pot he'd be facing time, loss of ability to vote, and a criminal record making finding a job nearly impossible.  Meanwhile, she killed a man either in cold blood or in some of the most reckless stupidity I've ever heard of and she's going to skate.

Every time there's a bad police shooting, the bosses say it's "a few bad apples."  But they leave out the second part of the phrase: they ruin the barrel.  They are all ruined by treating the so called "bad apples" as special snowflakes who can literally get away with murder.

[nycHorn 3123]

I lived for a year in a then-popular apt complex off Riverside.  One night some friends and I gave a little saucy on tequila and the wheels came off.  A friend fell into the pool with all his clothes on and walked back to what he thought was my apt.  Took off all his clothes, spread out the contents of his wallet on the coffee table and wrapped himself in the table cloth and slept naked on the couch until noon the next day.  The bedroom doors were locked and he finally realized he was in the wrong apt and found his way back to my place about 1pm.  Nobody was shot and the only tragedy was the table cloth, which I hope was burned.

I still wish I was there when the occupants of the apt he slept in figured out that neither of them knew him.  "Your buddy slept on the couch naked last night!"..."My friend?  I thought it was your friend!"

If that's not the epitome of college, I don't know what is.

[PilotsError 2336]

The Police PR Spin Machine is in full effect in Dallas with "sources" telling local reporters that Dallas police officer Amber Guyger shot and killed Botham Jean because he would not show her his hands after she entered his apartment without permission.

However, the affidavit said the apartment was so dark that she didn't realize she had entered the wrong apartment until after she stepped outside and noticed the number on the side of the door did not correspond to her apartment.

And "sources" are saying she did not see the red doormat in front of his apartment because she was carrying bags.

But those bags did not deter her from pulling out her gun in a pitch black apartment and killing the man who lived there.

This is why they waited three days to release any information. It took them this long to concoct a narrative that would allow her to walk free.

Read the full affidavit that is linked in the third paragraph in the story below.

https://newsmaven.io/pinacnews/courtroom-files/dallas-police-officer-amber-guyner-claims-botham-jean-ignored-verbal-commands-Oa5MevPkQEW2fK0L-zIwjQ/

[elnimo 55]

Anyone who was not police would have been taken into custody right there. The police had cause to arrest her on manslaughter and probably could have gotten the warrant issued that night. Then she would not have had time to workout her story (lie) with her attorney and get her bail money organized. Instead they let her go home do just that. Which is why that affidavit reads the way it does.

She’s gonna walk. Pretty white girls get away with murder all the time.

[TwiceHorn 32071]

17 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Bingo. If I'm the prosecutor, I'm making this the cornerstone of my case. This was not an arrest. This was B&E. If the shoe was on the other foot, the defendant would be facing the death penalty.

Except you aren't because a Texas cop has jurisdiction, on or off duty, but within their territorial jurisdiction, to make arrests for crimes committed in their presence/sight.  Some, like domestic violence, they are actually required to make an arrest.

And, with this little factoid, the cop dragged the City into it because she was then acting within the scope of her employment. 

Edited September 11, 2018 by TwiceHorn

[Deej 77806]

4 minutes ago, elnimo said:

Anyone who was not police would have been taken into custody right there. The police had cause to arrest her on manslaughter and probably could have gotten the warrant issued that night. Then she would not have had time to workout her story (lie) with her attorney and get her bail money organized. Instead they let her go home do just that. Which is why that affidavit reads the way it does.

She’s gonna walk. Pretty white girls get away with murder all the time.

I think calling her pretty is being generous. 

[conVINCEd 21477]

2 hours ago, Steel Shank said:

The warrant states she t that she's in the wrong apartment?urns on the light and when 911 operator asks where she is, she goes to the door to get the # and discovers she's in the wrong apartment. You mean turning on the light in someone else's apartment doesn't clue this idiot cop in that she's in the wrong apartment?

I can't make any sense of this.  My first thought was she was hammered, yet she hit her target with a handgun with a 50% success rate, which is not easy to do sober.  The door was ajar thing bothers me.  From photos, the apartments look like they are relatively new construction.  The last new construction apartment I lived in had self-closing doors, and I think that's pretty common in new builds.  In order to leave the door ajar, you would have to physically stop it from closing, and intentionally leave it open.  

[mdmost 43949]

This whole "he didn't obey my commands" bullshit is galling. I mean the balls on these people to blame the victim for not obeying someone in the dark who told him to put his hands up. The bitch needs to plea bargain. You took a man's life because you fucked up and killed him. Your mistake, not his. He did nothing wrong. Your mistake cost him his life. So fuck off with this notion that he did anything wrong in his own fucking home. 

[SDG 3336]

8 minutes ago, PilotsError said:

The Police PR Spin Machine is in full effect in Dallas with "sources" telling local reporters that Dallas police officer Amber Guyger shot and killed Botham Jean because he would not show her his hands after she entered his apartment without permission.

However, the affidavit said the apartment was so dark that she didn't realize she had entered the wrong apartment until after she stepped outside and noticed the number on the side of the door did not correspond to her apartment.

And "sources" are saying she did not see the red doormat in front of his apartment because she was carrying bags.

But those bags did not deter her from pulling out her gun in a pitch black apartment and killing the man who lived there.

This is why they waited three days to release any information. It took them this long to concoct a narrative that would allow her to walk free.

Read the full affidavit that is linked in the third paragraph in the story below.

https://newsmaven.io/pinacnews/courtroom-files/dallas-police-officer-amber-guyner-claims-botham-jean-ignored-verbal-commands-Oa5MevPkQEW2fK0L-zIwjQ/

She could see that his hands weren’t in plane sight, but could tell his furniture was different?  

[TwiceHorn 32071]

8 minutes ago, mdmost said:

This whole "he didn't obey my commands" bullshit is galling. I mean the balls on these people to blame the victim for not obeying someone in the dark who told him to put his hands up. The bitch needs to plea bargain. You took a man's life because you fucked up and killed him. Your mistake, not his. He did nothing wrong. Your mistake cost him his life. So fuck off with this notion that he did anything wrong in his own fucking home. 

Slow your roll for a minute.  Aint nobody blaming him.

Stop and think about this for a second.  Accepting, for the moment, that she got into the dark apartment by an unlocked door, she sees an intruder in what she believes is her place.  As a cop, is it not plausible that you say "stop, let me see your hands,"  "do not move"?  If you are honest, yes it is plausible.

And, when he fails to heed because he is in his own home, she blasts, thinking it's hers.  It's quite plausible, if a bit aggro on the part of the cop.

I am as reliable a cop-trasher as there is on this board, but this situation is so odd that I am not willing to go the "party line" on it.

 

To me, the key piece of evidence in evaluating the "accidentalness" of this incident is the 911 call.  That will tell us whether we have a trigger happy psychopath or an overly nervous accidental killer.  The bigger question is whether we should have either type as a cop.

Edited September 11, 2018 by TwiceHorn

[SDG 3336]

11 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Except you aren't because a Texas cop has jurisdiction, on or off duty, but within their territorial jurisdiction, to make arrests for crimes committed in their presence/sight.  Some, like domestic violence, they are actually required to make an arrest.

And, with this little factoid, the cop dragged the City into it because she was then acting within the scope of her employment. 

There’s that whole fourth amendment thing and he was in his house not committing a crime so she had no right without a warrant. 

[mdmost 43949]

5 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Slow your roll for a minute.  Aint nobody blaming him.

Stop and think about this for a second.  Accepting, for the moment, that she got into the dark apartment by an unlocked door, she sees an intruder in what she believes is her place.  As a cop, is it not plausible that you say "stop, let me see your hands,"  "do not move"?  If you are honest, yes it is plausible.

And, when he fails to heed because he is in his own home, she blasts, thinking it's hers.  It's quite plausible, if a bit aggro on the part of the cop.

I am as reliable a cop-trasher as there is on this board, but this situation is so odd that I am not willing to go the "party line" on it.

 

To me, the key piece of evidence in evaluating the "accidentalness" of this incident is the 911 call.  That will tell us whether we have a trigger happy psycopath or an overly nervous accidental killer.  The bigger question is whether we should have either type as a cop.

Huh. They are absolutely making a case that yes, she made a mistake but the victim was shot because HE DIDN'T OBEY HER COMMANDS". This has been used over and over in these shootings to justify them. Oh she made an awful mistake but.....he didn't obey her commands. That's putting the blame on him. Did she say "Dallas PD" or "I am cop"? We'll only know her side. I'm not willing to cut her slack. She needs to plea to the manslaughter because her eventual acquittal is going to set this city back 10 years. 

Quote

Authorities say a Dallas police officer said she shot a neighbor whose home she mistakenly entered last week after he ignored her “verbal commands.”

 

Edited September 11, 2018 by mdmost

[TwiceHorn 32071]

3 minutes ago, SDG said:

There’s that whole fourth amendment thing and he was in his house not committing a crime so she had no right without a warrant. 

That's not applicable here.

[Cheeseweasel 26439]

Just now, TwiceHorn said:

That's not applicable here.

Maybe not, but I'd sure as shit make sure the jury heard it.

[TwiceHorn 32071]

3 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Huh. They are absolutely making a case that yes, she made a mistake but the victim was shot because HE DIDN'T OBEY HER COMMANDS". This has been used over and over in these shootings to justify them. Oh she made an awful mistake but.....he didn't obey her commands. That's putting the blame on him. 

 

That doesn't make the actual argument, you are just reading it that way (perhaps as you were intended to do).  Nonetheless, there's no group out there saying it's justified because he didn't obey commands.  Although, sooner or later there probably will be.

Edited September 11, 2018 by TwiceHorn

[TwiceHorn 32071]

1 minute ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Maybe not, but I'd sure as shit make sure the jury heard it.

We have enough problems with prosecutors spewing bullshit at juries without having to resort to this.

[Deej 77806]

17 minutes ago, SDG said:

She could see that his hands weren’t in plane sight

Quote

 the affidavit said the apartment was so dark that she didn't realize she had entered the wrong apartment

Too dark to make out anything about the apartment, maybe that's why his hands weren't in plain sight. 

Nothing about her story adds up. She obviously fucked up, but hey, give the cop a pass. 

Edited September 11, 2018 by Deej

[Shenanigans 31]

How was the door ajar if she was unable to unlock the door. What happened to the narrative about keys being stuck in the door? All of this is garbage lies.

[TwiceHorn 32071]

1 minute ago, Shenanigans said:

How was the door ajar if she was unable to unlock the door. What happened to the narrative about keys being stuck in the door? All of this is garbage lies.

None of that was from a reliable source.

[Vic Mackey 47951]

I can't make any sense of this.  My first thought was she was hammered, yet she hit her target with a handgun with a 50% success rate, which is not easy to do sober.  The door was ajar thing bothers me.  From photos, the apartments look like they are relatively new construction.  The last new construction apartment I lived in had self-closing doors, and I think that's pretty common in new builds.  In order to leave the door ajar, you would have to physically stop it from closing, and intentionally leave it open.  

You are absolutely correct. I've been to several of these new apartment builds like this around Dallas and they all have self closing doors. I'm calling bullshit on the door being ajar. Can they not investigate that? But that's right, the people investigating are doing their best to help her walk free so of course they won't.

[PilotsError 2336]

...

[Mojo Hand 4580]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

It's sad that this is going to turn into a racial police brutality thing.  Because it isn't.  Or if it is, it isn't like any you've ever seen before.  And I am not one to easily give cops a pass.

For fuck's sake, she shot the poor bastard in the dark before she could ascertain his race.

 

Says her.   Who also apparently says she could see that he was not putting his hands up. 

[South Austin 53220]

1 minute ago, PilotsError said:

...

I see, because intruders usually commit burglary in their underwear.

[LongestHorn 772]

Did she use her police radio at any point before she called 911 on her cell?

[SDG 3336]

9 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

None of that was from a reliable source.

Nothing in this case is from a reliable source including the arrest affidavit.  

[TwiceHorn 32071]

8 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

Says her.   Who also apparently says she could see that he was not putting his hands up. 

She didn't say that.

[TwiceHorn 32071]

Just now, SDG said:

Nothing in this case is from a reliable source including the arrest affidavit.  

That is possibly true.  But it's all we got and it's probably all we're ever going to get.

[TwiceHorn 32071]

9 minutes ago, PilotsError said:

...

Another shaded narrative.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

Just now, TwiceHorn said:

She didn't say that.

OK.  You are drawing the firm conclusion that this is not a race thing because she shot the guy in the dark before she could ascertain his race.   What is your basis for that conclusion? 

[Brisketexan 106874]

23 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

That doesn't make the actual argument, you are just reading it that way (perhaps as you were intended to do).  Nonetheless, there's no group out there saying it's justified because he didn't obey commands.  Although, sooner or later there probably will be.

1 -- she is absolutely going to make up a story (that is, LIE) about telling him to put his hands up and he "refused her verbal commands."  She will indeed say that.  I'm here to say that is a lie, and it never happened.

2 -- that is going to be the basis of her defense. "Based on her years of training in assessing and responding to threats, she followed all proper protocols and procedures.  If only the deceased had done what everyone should do -- obey the lawful commands of a law officer who reasonably believed that a crime was being committed -- he could have avoided causing this awful tragedy."

3 -- the cop defenders will be on this like flies on shit.  I'm sure they are already, but you and I don't read their posts/see their comments on newspaper articles.

Those three things are fact.  She's lying about giving verbal commands.  That lie will be the cornerstone of her legal defense.  It will be the cornerstone of her public defense.

[TwiceHorn 32071]

2 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

OK.  You are drawing the firm conclusion that this is not a race thing because she shot the guy in the dark before she could ascertain his race.   What is your basis for that conclusion? 

No I haven't concluded anything.  It's the rest of you that have got the jump to conclusions mat out.  I'm waiting for facts to emerge.

[TwiceHorn 32071]

6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

1 -- she is absolutely going to make up a story (that is, LIE) about telling him to put his hands up and he "refused her verbal commands."  She will indeed say that.  I'm here to say that is a lie, and it never happened.

2 -- that is going to be the basis of her defense. "Based on her years of training in assessing and responding to threats, she followed all proper protocols and procedures.  If only the deceased had done what everyone should do -- obey the lawful commands of a law officer who reasonably believed that a crime was being committed -- he could have avoided causing this awful tragedy."

3 -- the cop defenders will be on this like flies on shit.  I'm sure they are already, but you and I don't read their posts/see their comments on newspaper articles.

Those three things are fact.  She's lying about giving verbal commands.  That lie will be the cornerstone of her legal defense.  It will be the cornerstone of her public defense.

That's a pretty bold statement.

I agree that she has a motivation to lie, but it's also a very plausible thing for a cop to do.

And, actually, while it might "look good" that she gave him a chance, I don't think it is strictly necessary for her defense.

 

I want to hear the 911 tape.  If it's full of "I told him to stop, I TOLD HIM!" then there may be a problem.  If it's more like "Oh holy Jesus, I came in the wrong apartment and shot a guy I thought was a burglar, Oh my Gawwwwd, help me."  then it may be less of a problem.

Edited September 11, 2018 by TwiceHorn

[Mojo Hand 4580]

1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

No I haven't concluded anything.  It's the rest of you that have got the jump to conclusions mat out.  I'm waiting for facts to emerge.

This is your quote.  Nothing about this reads like someone merely waiting for facts to emerge.  You have both made a firm assertion about what she knew and are pre-judging others for a conclusion that you don't yet know to be incorrect:

"It's sad that this is going to turn into a racial police brutality thing.  Because it isn't.  Or if it is, it isn't like any you've ever seen before.  And I am not one to easily give cops a pass.

For fuck's sake, she shot the poor bastard in the dark before she could ascertain his race."

[Brisketexan 106874]

Just now, TwiceHorn said:

That's a pretty bold statement.

I agree that she has a motivation to lie, but it's also a very plausible thing for a cop to do.

And, actually, while it might "look good" that she gave him a chance, I don't think it is strictly necessary for her defense.

No, it's not strictly necessary.  But these are cops.  They are Greg Davis on 3rd and long.  They only have one play they can call -- sideways screen pass for a gain of .1 yards.

She did not issue him any verbal command.  She will say that she did.  She is going to lie. Her union and pals are helping her concoct that lie and story as we speak.  It will be THE narrative of this when all is said and done.  Months from now, when this is back in the courts, we'll all be DEBATING the right thing to do - "should you obey a cop's commands or not?" -- because that will be the issue of the day.  But I'm here to tell you that it is all a lie.  It didn't happen.

He opened the door.  She freaked, and shot him.  There were no words. Just panic and death.

And finally, it will 100% be the cornerstone of her defense.  She HAS to blame the victim.  Otherwise, she shoulders all of the blame.  And the only plausible way to blame the victim is by saying HE had a chance to de-escelate, but didn't take it.  Subtext with a wink -- you know how THOSE people are.....if they'd only follow cops' orders, they wouldn't get shot.

[elnimo 55]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

No, it's not strictly necessary.  But these are cops.  They are Greg Davis on 3rd and long.  They only have one play they can call -- sideways screen pass for a gain of .1 yards.

She did not issue him any verbal command.  She will say that she did.  She is going to lie. Her union and pals are helping her concoct that lie and story as we speak.  It will be THE narrative of this when all is said and done.  Months from now, when this is back in the courts, we'll all be DEBATING the right thing to do - "should you obey a cop's commands or not?" -- because that will be the issue of the day.  But I'm here to tell you that it is all a lie.  It didn't happen.

He opened the door.  She freaked, and shot him.  There were no words. Just panic and death.

And finally, it will 100% be the cornerstone of her defense.  She HAS to blame the victim.  Otherwise, she shoulders all of the blame.  And the only plausible way to blame the victim is by saying HE had a chance to de-escelate, but didn't take it.  Subtext with a wink -- you know how THOSE people are.....if they'd only follow cops' orders, they wouldn't get shot.

All of this. And she’s gonna walk because guess what? He’s dead and can’t tell his side of the story.

[TwiceHorn 32071]

8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

He opened the door.  She freaked, and shot him.  There were no words. Just panic and death.

 

This, I pretty much assume is what REALLY happened.  Did the fact that he was a black guy even register?  If, so, maybe had some influence.  Hard to say in a split second.  I tend to think a white guy is probably just as dead.

My question all along is, should we have a cop that "freaks" and shoots people.  And I think the answer is probably no.

The other question is, what sort of liability should this officer experience?  Civil liability, within the Tort Claims Act seems almost inevitable.  A Bivens claim, eesh, I don't know.  Criminal liability? 

Edited September 11, 2018 by TwiceHorn

[Cheeseweasel 26439]

12 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

No, it's not strictly necessary.  But these are cops.  They are Greg Davis on 3rd and long.  They only have one play they can call -- sideways screen pass for a gain of .1 yards.

When you are a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

When you are Greg Davis, everything looks like an opportunity for a screen.

When you are a cop, everyone looks like a perp.

[mdmost 43949]

The answer to your first question is pretty obvious. The 2nd, she should be criminally liable. She killed a person because of her mistake. The only reason she possibly gets off is because she has a badge. And that's bullshit. A guy is dead because she's a fucking idiot. I'll say again, the best thing would be for her to plea this but she won't. Any civilian who makes this same mistake is looking at 5-20 years. 

[Cheeseweasel 26439]

Have we got a tox screen on the "perp" yet? I'm guessing his fervent movements were caused by all the drugs in his system.