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2018 Seattle Mariners Thread

MC Fresh Breath

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miguelito
miguelito

This is how he got the superpowers.

MC Fresh Breath
MC Fresh Breath
miguelito
miguelito

Yeah, opening day snuck up on me, too.  Although I always say this is the best sports time of the year: March Madness, Baseball, Masters. 

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spystud13

spystud13 2371

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They will have to move one of Dee or Seager. Dee clearly can’t play CF, & both guys are owed a shit-ton for awhile. Healy can be non-tendered, then they throw Vogelbach @ 1B everyday for a few months & pray. Either Dee 2B/Robbie 3B or Robbie 2B/Seager 3B. Either way a CF has to be acquired. 

And they have to try to bring Nellie back on a very short-term deal just to keep from being so LH in the middle. 

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Biff Tannen

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On 9/25/2018 at 1:37 AM, spystud13 said:

They will have to move one of Dee or Seager. Dee clearly can’t play CF, & both guys are owed a shit-ton for awhile. Healy can be non-tendered, then they throw Vogelbach @ 1B everyday for a few months & pray. Either Dee 2B/Robbie 3B or Robbie 2B/Seager 3B. Either way a CF has to be acquired. 

And they have to try to bring Nellie back on a very short-term deal just to keep from being so LH in the middle. 

I think Seager has to be the clear pick if what you say is correct.  He had a shit season, but he certainly is the better player overall than Dee.  I like them both though.  Can't we unload Felix for...maybe...Griffey?

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MC Fresh Breath

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ariners Terminate Contract of Dr. Lorena Martin, Director of High Performance, Amid Controversy

The Mariners have terminated Dr. Martin’s three-year contract after just a year, and Dr. Martin has alleged racial discrimination

By John Trupin and Isabelle Minasian  Nov 12, 2018, 4:12pm PST
 

Screen_Shot_2018_11_12_at_3.50.40_PM.0.p

While waiting for news to break of where LHP James Paxton would next be headed, the Marinersorganization has instead delivered a bombshell of far more distressing proportions. The news itself is troubling at best: Dr. Lorena Martin, hired just one year ago to the position of Director of High Performance, has been fired by the organization.

With two more years on her contract, reportedly, it seems the issues were severe, and the Mariners appear to feel they are an aggrieved party in the situation, such that they are attempting to avoid paying the rest of Dr. Martin’s contract. While it’s unknown what the details of her contract were, it is common in sports for coaches and coach-like personnel to have “for cause” clauses in their contracts. These clauses tend to protect the employee from firing without pay before the conclusion of their deal without specific cause - in other words not just because they weren’t performing their job as well as desired. This is famously common in college football, although prevalent throughout many sports, and other professions, where coaches often receive significant payouts after delivering poor results due to having received guarantees of payment barring a “for cause” firing (see, Petrino, Bobby).

The situation, however, only gets thornier from there. Dr. Martin outlined a list of issues with the Mariners organization on both her Instagram and Twitter accounts, which touch the highest levels of the front office.

 

The Mariners organization has issues.
The things I’ve witnessed first hand have left me shocked, GM Jerry Dipoto, Manager Scott Servais, and Director of PD Andy McKay speak about players like this
Calling LATINOS, LAZY, DUMB, and STUPID, especially DOMINICANS#discrimination

 
325 people are talking about this
 
 
 

As is sometimes the case, Tweets and posts get deleted, so should that occur, here is the text from Dr. Martin’s post:

 

Lorena_Martin_statement.jpegDr. Lorena Martin

Dr. Martin further elaborated in response to Ryan Divish of the Seattle Times outlining the situation, stating that the Mariners organization had been in negotiations with her about a more quiet parting of ways.

dToqsTWH_normal.jpeg

The Mariners decided to terminate the contract of Dr. Lorena Martin, who was hired to be the team's high performance director last offseason. Martin has commented on the situation on her instagram account. https://www.instagram.com/p/BqGUTHYhzq3/ 

 
 

From all angles this is a disastrous situation. These allegations come on the heels of further organizational problems and controversy. Earlier in the 2018 season a Seattle Times exposé found that the Mariners dealt with three reported cases of reported sexual harassment by high-level officials, including current President Kevin Mather. Mather, save for a public apology following the article, has done nothing and continues to preside over the organization, while the women involved all left the organization shortly after reporting. And, of course, there was a clubhouse fight near the end of the season, with Jean Segura, a native of the Dominican Republic, at the center.

We have reached out to the Mariners and Dr. Martin for further comment, and will refrain from speculating until we’ve heard from the respective parties.

UPDATE: 4:55 PM PT

The Mariners have released their statement:

 

Mariners press release regarding the statements made by Dr. Martin.

 

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MC Fresh Breath

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Bench coach Manny Acta defends Scott Servais, Mariners after allegations of racism by Lorena Martin

Originally published November 14, 2018 at 12:41 pm

Seattle Mariners third base coach Manny Acta is seen in the dugout during the first inning of a baseball game against the Detroit Tigers, Tuesday, April 25,2017, in Detroit. (AP Photo/Carlos Osorio) otkco110 otkco110 (Carlos Osorio / The Associated Press)
 
Seattle Mariners third base coach Manny Acta is seen in the dugout during the first inning of a baseball game against the Detroit Tigers, Tuesday, April 25,2017, in Detroit. (AP Photo/Carlos Osorio) otkco110 otkco110 (Carlos Osorio / The Associated Press)
 

 

 
 

In a phone call from the Dominican Republic, Acta said during his three years on Servais’ staff, he has never seen signs of the behavior alleged by former director of high performance Lorena Martin.

By 
Seattle Times columnist

Mariners bench coach Manny Acta on Wednesday strongly defended manager Scott Servais and the organization against charges of racist comments levied this week by Dr. Lorena Martin, the team’s director of high performance who was fired last month.

In a phone call from the Dominican Republic, where he is general manager of the Aguilas Cibaenas of the Dominican Winter League, Acta said during his three years on Servais’ staff, he has never seen signs of the behavior alleged by Martin.

“I don’t want to talk about Dr. Martin,’’ he said. “I want to talk about me being able to see first-hand our clubhouse and our organization. Our clubhouse is probably the most diverse in the major leagues. We have people from all over the world. Scott goes out of his way to make people feel good, and treat everyone the same.

 

“He really cares about every single one of them. I’ve known Scott since 1989, when we were rooming on the road in the minor leagues. Out of seven billion people in the world, he chose me to coach for him. That tells you right there he’s not capable of saying those things.”

Acta is a native of the Dominican Republic. Martin wrote in an Instagram post Monday, “The things I’ve witnessed and heard first hand have left me shocked. How can their GM Jerry Dipoto, manager Scott Servais and director of player development Andy McKay speak about their players like this. … Calling LATINOS LAZY, DUMB, and STUPID, especially the DOMINICANS.”

Major League Baseball announced Tuesday that it is investigating the charges.

In an interview with the Tacoma News-Tribune on Monday, Martin said Servais told her you don’t see Latino managers or catchers in baseball because “they aren’t bright enough. They are dumb.”

Acta said, “I have never heard those comment coming out of him, and I would not put up with it, and would not work for an organization that thinks that way, being a Dominican myself.”

Acta has had two managerial stints in the major leagues, with Cleveland and Washington.

“If I’m not smart, why does he want me on his coaching staff?’’ he said. “I can only talk about my own experience. I never heard anyone refer to any of us that way.”

Acta pointed out that batting-practice pitcher Nasusel Cabrera and bullpen catcher Fleming Baez, both Dominicans, are also part of Servais’ staff, and until he recently resigned so was hitting coach Edgar Martinez, who is Puerto Rican.

“I’ve been in all those meetings, even closed-door meetings, and I’ve never heard those types of comments and would not tolerate that,” Acta said. “I haven’t heard any negative comments about minorities.

“Look at our clubhouse. The proof is there. In the three years I’ve been there, all the way from Mr. Stanton (Mariners chairman and managing partner John Stanton) to the batboys, I’ve never heard anyone treat any of our guys different.”

Martin also alleged that Dipoto called her “a cocky Latina” and McKay commented that Dominican players “are just plain stupid.”

 

Said Acta: “What I said goes for Jerry and Andy. I’ve dealt with all those guys. I don’t know what went on with Dr. Martin, but as far as me being in contact with those guys on an everyday basis, that’s not what I’ve seen.”

Acta said he was “shocked” when he read Martin’s charges.

“That’s because of what I have experienced,’’ he said. “Scotty has made over 40 trips to the Dominican in his career. As a manager, he could have chosen to pick up the phone to talk to guys, but almost every year he travels to meet with them personally. Also, our organization has made a tremendous investment in our Dominican academy. We help them get an education and they come out better citizens.”

Larry Stone: 206-464-3146 or lstone@seattletimes.com. Twitter: @StoneLarry. Larry Stone calls upon more than 30 years as a sportswriter to offer insight, wisdom, opinion, analysis - and hopefully some humor - regarding the wide world of sports. Topics include the thrill of victory, the agony of defeat, and, especially, the people responsible for either outcome, as well as the wide chasm between.
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spystud13

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Anymore? I kid. 

Interesting tidbit... 

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Making this particular blockbuster proposal even more complicated is the fact that new Mets GM Brodie Van Wagenen was Cano's agent at the time he scored his 10-year, $240 million contract from Seattle under former GM Jack Zduriencik in December 2013 -- tied for the fifth largest total salary in baseball history entering this offseason.

https://www.mlb.com/news/mets-mariners-discussing-robinson-cano-trade/c-301154490?tid=282421090

 

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MC Fresh Breath

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Mariners' rebuild painful to watch, but it didn't have to be

 
Bob Nightengale, USA TODAYPublished 7:53 a.m. ET Dec. 4, 2018 | Updated 8:28 a.m. ET Dec. 4, 2018
     
Usp Mlb Oakland Athletics At Seattle Mariners S Bba Sea Oak Usa Wa

(Photo: Joe Nicholson, USA TODAY Sports)

CONNECTTWEETLINKEDINCOMMENTEMAILMORE

It has been 17 years since it was the most prestigious home on the block, but with the wear and tear, it needed an upgrade to fix the flaws.

Still, no one told the Seattle Mariners they had to douse it with gasoline, light a match, and watch the entire structure disintegrate.

The Mariners, who led baseball with 116 wins and advanced to the American League Championship Series in 2001, have the longest playoff drought in major league North American sports. And they assured themselves Monday of a dreary, dreadful summer by reducing their club to the Tacoma Rainiers.

They’ve become the Northwest version of the Miami Marlins.

The Mariners stripped themselves of nearly $200 million worth of players. They dumped five -- including Robinson Cano, Jean Segura, Edwin Diaz and Juan Nicasio - on the National League East after earlier trading ace James Paxton, catcher Mike Zunino and veteran reliever Alex Colome.

Good thing the Mariners don’t own the Space Needle, or it would be on a moving van today.

The Mariners will be Exhibit 1-A in the next round of grievances by the Major League Baseball Players Association, which will ask how a team with massive revenue streams could be reduced to a flea market.

The Mariners, who won 89 games last season, now have assured themselves that Felix Hernandez will forever be known as the greatest pitcher in Mariners’ history to never appear in a postseason game.

The Mariners are going to stink to the high heavens in 2019 with no intention of winning, and a payroll that will continue to go lower.

So how much do you want to bet that they won’t lower ticket prices despite the inferior product?

Sure, Mariners general manager Jerry Dipoto will argue that his team wasn’t good enough to compete in the AL West, anyways, and now with their haul of prospects, they’ll have one of the deepest farm systems in baseball.

 

Well, the Boston Red Sox would have a fabulous farm system, too, if they traded Mookie Betts and J.D. Martinez, but silly them, they’d rather have a World Series banner hanging at Fenway Park.

If you happen to be a Mariners player, why would you want to stay?

Cano couldn’t wait to waive his no-trade clause. Same with Segura. How long before Kyle Seager, Dee Gordon and Mike Leake depart with $119.5 million remaining on their contracts?

The Mariners didn’t want the veterans they acquired Monday, and now can’t wait to dump them.

The Mariners will spend the next few months, and in some cases years, hyping the likes of JP Crawford, Justus Sheffield, Jarred Kelenic and Justin Dunn. They’ll tell everyone who’ll listen that if they’re ever close to contending again, they’ll have plenty of money to spend.

The fact is they always had money. They always had the resources to improve. Nothing stopped them from being a perennial power but themselves.

Now, they’ve simply given up, hoping their fans somehow buy into their scheme.

“We’re really excited with what direction we’re pointed to as a franchise,’’ Dipoto said Monday. “We’re all embracing taking a step back here in order to move ahead at a quicker pace in 2020.’’

They’ll try to convince folks that prospects can be fun to watch develop, but isn’t that what minor-league ballparks with their minor-league ticket prices and minor-league concessions are all about?

This was once a city that underwent one of the most dramatic transformations in sports, going from a lethargic baseball market into a hotbed in the summer of 1995, with pictures of Ken Griffey Jr. sliding across home plate against the New York Yankees still in restaurants and living rooms throughout town.

Now, their major league team is in ashes, with no one witnessing a demolition like this by a non-Marlins team since the 1993 San Diego Padres.

It’s ugly. It’s painful.

“This is the road we opted for,’’ Dipoto said. “This group will be young, energetic and a lot of fun to watch.’’

But actually win?

Seattle, the only AL franchise that has never played in the World Series, will be testing its fans’ patience for years to come.

Follow Nightengale on Twitter @BNightengale

 

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MC Fresh Breath

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Sullivan talks me off the ledge a bit:

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The Phillies Were Jean Segura’s Entire Market

December 3, 2018

Most of the time, we’re just hoping to look one trade into the future. This weekend, we had the rare opportunity to look two trades into the future. We knew that, barring catastrophe, the Mariners were going to finalize a big trade with the Mets. And then word got out that, after that, the Mariners were going to finalize another big trade with the Phillies. That Mets trade is complete, as the Mariners have lost their second baseman and their closer. Now that Phillies trade is also complete, as the Mariners have lost their shortstop.

Phillies get:

Mariners get:

On the Mariners’ end, it feels light. It feels like there should be some kind of young third piece. Segura is 28 years old and affordably under contract another four years, and since 2016 he’s had about the same WAR as Carlos Correa. You’d think that, from a value perspective, Segura would be more comfortably in the black, and traded accordingly. But for one thing, Segura is dogged by an unflattering reputation. For another thing, Crawford is an intriguing unknown. And for a third thing, take a look at the shortstop market out there. There wouldn’t have been many buyers.

 

 

It’s most worth dwelling on the latter two points. It’s unclear how much teams really care whether a player doesn’t always get along with everybody. Segura isn’t the most popular player in the clubhouse, but maybe he just hasn’t had the right group of peers. People change. Clubhouses change. Teams survive. As such, I want to talk about the market. It’s been obvious for at least a few weeks that Segura was extremely available, given the Mariners’ change of direction. He is, again, a cost-controlled shortstop on the right side of 30, and he’s been a quality player for years. The problem the Mariners ran into is that there still wouldn’t have been much interest.

As much as Segura counts as a long-term player, he’s not getting any younger, and he makes the most sense for a competitive team. Who are the competitive teams in the American League? The Red Sox have a shortstop. The Yankees will have a shortstop for the second half, and they wouldn’t want to impede a pursuit of Manny Machado. The Rays have a shortstop. The Indians and the Astros and the A’s and the Angels have shortstops. If you want to get fringe-y, the Twins have a shortstop. And they’re not really a classic buyer.

Who are the competitive teams in the National League? The Nationals have a shortstop. The Braves have a shortstop. The Mets have a shortstop. The Cubs have a shortstop, and the Cardinals have a shortstop, and the Dodgers have a shortstop, and the Rockies have a shortstop. The Padres are still some time away, and their best prospect is a shortstop. The Pirates are sort of where the Twins are. The realistic best fits have been the Phillies and the Brewers, and I doubt the Brewers would be that interested in a Segura reunion, given that things didn’t go so well the first time.

 

The Phillies weren’t just the most obvious fit — they were arguably the only good fit. The Phillies hope to contend, and they wanted more of a sure thing at the shortstop position. The higher-probability player, then, is going to Philadelphia. The guy he’s replacing is going to Seattle. That guy has been a top prospect before, but the Phillies were getting tired of waiting. You can’t afford to be that patient anymore when you’re trying to get into the race.

Looking at all this objectively, Segura has had positive trade value. A limited market, which worked in the Phillies’ favor, but it’s not like they got him for free. Nicasio has had slightly negative trade value, given his $9.25-million salary, but he’s coming off far better peripherals than his ERA would suggest. Pazos has had slightly positive trade value, given he’ll cost the league minimum as a lefty reliever. Santana has had negative trade value, as his next two years will cost about $41 million. It’s not all a sunk cost, since Santana can still hit, but the Phillies had been looking to dump him to free up first base again for Rhys Hoskins. That all leaves us with Crawford. Crawford has had some amount of positive trade value. Before the year, he was our No. 29 overall prospect. He’s a shortstop who can walk, and who hasn’t yet turned 24 years old. At issue is that he hasn’t progressed. Some of the shine is off the apple, and at this point, the evaluations are all over the place, even as far as Crawford’s old team was concerned.

At his best, Crawford can make plays like this:

And, at his best, Crawford can hit the ball like this:

When Crawford was a top prospect, his whole brand was playing strong defense while mastering the strike zone. That defense hasn’t yet graded out well at the major-league level. The eye is still more or less there, but Crawford found himself more exposed in 2018, having trouble with the pitch away and the pitch in. Maybe some of the trouble had to do with an elbow strain, which was followed by a hand fracture. Little about Crawford’s season went smoothly. But there were already questions about whether he’d be able to tap into enough of his modest power. No one wanted to see three times as many strikeouts as walks.

The Mariners presumably see this as a wise buy-low. They were able to get a former top position-player prospect, with five more years of team control remaining, and he’s going into his age-24 season. There exists a decent chance the Mariners just traded for their shortstop of the future. Not unlike Mallex Smith, Crawford is someone who could help right away, and down the line, when the team hopes to compete. I mean, it took Jurickson Profar until 2018 to start to get it figured out. Crawford still has a lot of that upside. He’s just believed to have a reduced chance of reaching it. He’s somewhere in that area between post-hype and bust.

In order to get Crawford, the Mariners were willing to accept Santana, who, contract aside, remains an above-average hitter with an unimpeachable eye. Santana is no one’s idea of a long-term solution, but with Seattle, at least, he can serve a purpose, upgrading the roster and helping the team avoid completely bottoming out during this transition phase. If Santana hits well enough, he, too, could get traded. In this particular move, he’s found a better home. The Phillies didn’t want to have Hoskins in the outfield anymore. That was a mistake of their own doing, the consequence of misreading last year’s market and thinking Santana’s deal was too good to pass up. Now the Phillies’ defense is going to be a lot better, with fewer air balls falling in. And, obviously, Segura is a get.

Segura’s three-year wRC+ is 117. He’s stolen at least 20 bases six years in a row, and he’s sustained the bulk of his breakout gains in 2016. Segura is an atypical kind of valuable hitter, since he’s more about contact than pop, but he’ll hit for better pop in Philadelphia anyway, and for as much as I’ve heard that Segura isn’t long for the shortstop position, he’s rated basically average by DRS and UZR. He shouldn’t have to move next season. He probably shouldn’t have to move the season after that. There are better shortstops in the game, absolutely. Segura, though, is pretty quick, and he’s fresh off an 11% strikeout rate. After three consecutive quality seasons, you can buy that his profile is for real. This is one upgrade for a team poised to make several. Two upgrades, really, given the Hoskins move back to first, and then there is a bit of upside in what Pazos and Nicasio might be able to do. Pazos is coming off a troubling velocity loss, and Nicasio had a knee operation, but you don’t have to dig deep to find success in their track records.

For the Phillies, it’s the start of the offseason plan. It’s a plan that’s likely to involve several steps, and it’s a plan that could still include Manny Machado or Bryce Harper. Hoskins has freed up space in the outfield, or Machado could agree to play third. I don’t know how much the Phillies will actually pull off, but it looks like we should expect four competitive teams in next year’s NL East. As for next year’s AL West? Maybe two competitive teams, or maybe three. The Rangers aren’t going to be there, and neither are the Mariners, after a season that brought them achingly close. I don’t believe the Mariners won this trade. There’s no guarantee the Mariners have won any of their offseason trades. But at least they’re no longer stuck in the middle, and at least they’ll have new youth to dream on. This has been a painful series of steps, but you can’t say now the Mariners don’t have a future.

 


 

 
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Biff Tannen

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4 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

I don’t believe the Mariners won this trade. There’s no guarantee the Mariners have won any of their offseason trades. But at least they’re no longer stuck in the middle, and at least they’ll have new youth to dream on. This has been a painful series of steps, but you can’t say now the Mariners don’t have a future.

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45696

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33 minutes ago, miguelito said:

What are the odds Edgar gets into the Hall of Fame? 

If he does, who wants to go to Cooperstown?

He was pretty close to the threshold last year if I remember correctly, so hopefully he can get over the hump this year.  I went to Cooperstown for Griffey's induction and I've already got 2021 penciled in for Big Papi (wife is a Red Sox fan), so I don't think I can squeeze another trip up there in between.

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