Big 12 Happenings

[UT Lawnghorn 758]

1 hour ago, Cameltoe said:

This is such nonsense I have to call it out. First off, why are you citing Jones as a loss in this conversation about off-season changes? We already lost Jones early in the season last year and still made the dance. The rest of the guys you cited there MIGHT NOT HAVE GOTTEN PLAYING TIME on this year's roster and that is the REASON THEY TRANSFERED. That is nothing like TCU losing Brodziansky and Williams and all the other senior leader losses around the Big12.

Secondly, I love your wording on our conference record, "tied for the second-worst record in the Big 12 last year." LOL. We finished tied for 6th place with 3 other teams with a record of 8-10. Four of the 5 teams finishing ahead of us went deep in the Big Dance. There is nothing shameful about our conference record last year that we put up WITHOUT Jones.

Lulz. Holy shit dude. We’ve been over this. We didn’t make the dance without Jones. He was a huge contributor while healthy and won us some games. Off the top of my head, we probably lose to VCU without him. I’m sure there were others. We were a fucking 10 seed. One or two more losses could’ve left us out of the tournament. You keep acting like because we won games without Jones, and even a couple when Bamba was hurt, that we made the dance without them. That’s a completely ridiculous way to view it. We made the dance with their contributions, not without them.

[UT Lawnghorn 758]

1 minute ago, Machinator said:

Ridley played 13 out of 33 games, and in 2 of those games he played 5 or fewer minutes because he was trying to come back from injury.

Good point. I was off on games played, but we had good depth in 2015. Having 4 serviceable or better big men is good depth.

[Cameltoe 114]

4 hours ago, UT Lawnghorn said:

You keep acting like because we won games without Jones, and even a couple when Bamba was hurt, that we made the dance without them. That’s a completely ridiculous way to view it.

No, it's not ridiculous at all to point out that we played a number of games against tournament-level teams without these two players and won enough of them to make the dance. It is hard evidence that the returning players can get the job done. It bodes well for next year. Add in a top-10 recruiting class and the only ridiculous viewpoint in this thread is your claim that OU's the only team we'll be better than.

[Machinator 32099]

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article212392359.html

Quote

Kansas shooting guard Lagerald Vick, who announced plans to enter the 2018 NBA draft on April 6, removed his name from the draft pool prior to Wednesday's deadline, his mom, La La Vick, told The Star on Friday.

Vick, a 6-foot-5, 175-pound shooting guard from Memphis, who averaged 12.2 points and 4.8 rebounds a game his junior season at KU, is unsure of his next step, La La Vick said.

“He’s looking into the G-League (where he could play a year then enter the draft),” she told The Star, indicating playing overseas would not be an option as Vick wants to help raise his daughter in the U.S.

She did not rule out a return to KU — or perhaps another school — though pursuing that possibility was not the reason for pulling out of the draft, she said. And there are no plans right now to check into that option, she indicated. The only option Vick has mentioned to her at this time is the G-League, La La Vick stated.

 

[VolenteHawk 495]

Vick will not be back at Kansas.

[dogbreath 434]

The one reason to be excited about Texas next year is quality guard depth.  Coleman, Roach, Long, Ramey and Febres.  Another reason is senior leadership.  I would argue that none of Smart's teams at Texas have had any.  His first year was a transition year and while he had seniors and quality guard depth, there was no way that everyone was on the same page. 

Frankly, I am glad to see Davis and Young go.  Young wanted to be a feature player and he wasn't good enough and Davis after three years continually made poor decisions on team defense, couldn't handle the ball effectively and wavered in his ability to hit shots.

As others have argued on post depth, it would have been good to still have Banks and I think Smart should have played him more in his soph year, but not sure it would have made a difference in his decision to leave.

The freshman have a chance to integrate themselves into the team without having to be primary players and I think that will help them be more effective later in the season.

As far as Big 12 - KU by a long shot.  KSU and WV next tier and we will see after that.  There have been plenty of JC players who have been studs (Mitch Richmond) or effective players (Pierre Jackson) and plenty who have not. 

 

 

 

[WJC88 97]

11 hours ago, VolenteHawk said:

Vick will not be back at Kansas.

Why?

[realgreggym 835]

dogbreath, thanks for posting. Its tough to explain how important upper class leadership is and this is Coach Smart's first team with any. I disagree on Young but everything else you mentioned is correct.

[Machinator 32099]

25 minutes ago, realgreggym said:

dogbreath, thanks for posting. Its tough to explain how important upper class leadership is and this is Coach Smart's first team with any. I disagree on Young but everything else you mentioned is correct.

We had senior starters in Smart's first two teams. I assume you mean senior leadership from players coached primarily by Smart.

[Goo Punch 4275]

6 hours ago, dogbreath said:

The one reason to be excited about Texas next year is quality guard depth.  Coleman, Roach, Long, Ramey and Febres.  Another reason is senior leadership.  I would argue that none of Smart's teams at Texas have had any.  His first year was a transition year and while he had seniors and quality guard depth, there was no way that everyone was on the same page. 

Frankly, I am glad to see Davis and Young go.  Young wanted to be a feature player and he wasn't good enough and Davis after three years continually made poor decisions on team defense, couldn't handle the ball effectively and wavered in his ability to hit shots.

As others have argued on post depth, it would have been good to still have Banks and I think Smart should have played him more in his soph year, but not sure it would have made a difference in his decision to leave.

The freshman have a chance to integrate themselves into the team without having to be primary players and I think that will help them be more effective later in the season.

As far as Big 12 - KU by a long shot.  KSU and WV next tier and we will see after that.  There have been plenty of JC players who have been studs (Mitch Richmond) or effective players (Pierre Jackson) and plenty who have not. 

 

 

 

Well first, his first team was nothing but senior leadership and camaraderie, not to mention Isaiah Taylor as the heartbeat of the team. He had all of the senior leadership he needed with that squad. Second, Demarcus Holland was and had always been the leader of that team, but Shaka did not like him, and essentially stripped him of any parenthetical titles which he’d previously held. It was a stupid move that I still can’t reconcile. 

 

I agree with your take on the league, similar to what UTLawnghorn has already posited- we don’t look to be in that top tier of the league, but in that next bunch, the best of which will make the tourney, and the least of which will be in danger. How well we shoot and rebound  the ball will be the determining factors in how far we go in the league.

Edited June 2, 2018 by Goo Punch

[realgreggym 835]

Mac, that is correct. Its one thing to inherit seniors when taking over a program. Its something else to recruit them and have them go through your program. 

[Goo Punch 4275]

1 hour ago, realgreggym said:

Mac, that is correct. Its one thing to inherit seniors when taking over a program. Its something else to recruit them and have them go through your program. 

The only senior on the team who’s been here four years is Kerwin Roach, and he was recruited by Barnes. 

Edited June 2, 2018 by Goo Punch

[Goo Punch 4275]

In fact, we were in much better shape with Shaka’s first group which had all been recruited together and who had years of experience playing with one another. They also had plenty of college talent, from Ridley averaging a double-double and 3+ blocks, to Ibeh being the league’s DPOY, Holland who was the team leader and a first team all-defense player, plus te aforementioned Taylor, who everyone knew was in his final year at Texas as a junior. The idea that our 2018-19 team will have some sort of senior leadership element that Shaka has never had at Texas is wrong on multiple levels.

[realgreggym 835]

Its wrong because you have no true understanding of the sport. When exactly did Roach play for Rick. He is a 4th year senior under Coach Smart and he has never had that before. Being one of the coach's players is far different than inheriting players. Maybe there is a video to explain it to you. This will be DO's third year in the program and the shorthorns becoming sophomores will be huge.  Also having Long should be a huge help. This will be Coach Smart's first experienced team.

[Goo Punch 4275]

I just responded to what you said greg. You said that it was one thing to inherit seniors, but that “it’s something else to recruit them and have them go through your program.” We have one senior who’s been here four years and he wasn’t recruited by Shaka. I understand the situation just fine.

[immortal13 4059]

Please God no more Rick Barnes shit.

[realgreggym 835]

Roach was recruited by Coach Smart when he came to Texas. Roach committed to Texas previously but Coach Smart convinced him to stay. He may be the only 4 year senior. DO has been here 3 years. Long has now been here 2 years and so have the sophomores. Senior leadership is the ideal situation but Coach Smart has a team with more experience recruited by him than he has the 3 previous years. You really don't understand but keep telling yourself that you do. Again, go watch a video.

[VolenteHawk 495]

On 6/2/2018 at 9:46 AM, WJC88 said:

Why?

Self doesn't want him back.  If KU wasn't so razor thin last year, he'd have been benched early and often.  The depth issue is solved now (at least on paper).

 

[kopp0e 1135]

1 hour ago, VolenteHawk said:

Self doesn't want him back.  If KU wasn't so razor thin last year, he'd have been benched early and often.  The depth issue is solved now (at least on paper).

 

That sounds like a very Nick Saban-like thing to do, kidding aside; will the kid be allowed to take an immediate scholly at another XII team or out of conference..?

[Jhawk 1075]

Self said he can go pro or transfer. So it doesn’t sound like he’s coming back unless he comes up with something that convinces self he can be a team player. From what I have read, Vick was out the door with no remorse. Now he wants back in because he didn’t hear what he needed to hear. Couple this with him not giving full effort most of the year and self not having depth problems and you have Vick on the outside looking in. Unfortunately for Vick, it looks like he overplayed his hand and he is at least 2 years from getting another chance in the league unless he finishes school this summer and grad transfers. 

[bularry1 23]

I don't see a clear 2nd tier.  I just see Kansas and then the rest.  Maybe OU will be terrible so in their own 4th tier, but I'm not sure WV and K St are clearly better than Baylor, Tech and UT at this point.   Need to see the new faces and how teams look.

[VinyVango 694]

I think we can definitely be in the mix for a tournament bid next year if: Roach picks up where he left off; DO gets in shape, shows improved decision making and increases his shot %; and Long and Febres can hit open shots and play adequate defense.  I liked what I saw with Coleman and Simms as freshmen as they gained college experience and am not worried about them getting better.

To be better than last year overall, we will need a significant contribution (with defense and rebounding) from another big (or collection thereof) besides Simms and 8-10 points a game every once in awhile from a collection of freshmen.

I am not sure Jones will be able to come back and contribute this year (unless it's late in the season).  If that's the case, he may add a needed boost during the crunch part of the season.  He could be the difference between a low seed and middle of the pack seed and could reduce the need for any point contribution from freshmen.

I think the ceiling for next year is a 6-7 seed (5 seed perhaps if Jones is back and one of our freshmen turns out to be a stud from the start of conference play)… the floor is probably a NIT bid.

 

[Jhawk 1075]

Here is kind of how I rank the big12 at first blush and without totally reviewing rosters.....

1. KU - Absolutely stacked and if Self takes pity on Vick we could return a 37% 3 point shooter (I don't think he comes back).  We only have 1 outstanding question for 1 of our 5 bigs (De Sousa) but SDS might only get 20 minutes a game with our depth chart.  Looking at the schedule (it is going to be the hardest in cbb this year) I can count as few as 0 losses and as many as 5.  I predict we'll lose 2-4 times this year and spend most of the season as #1 and be the favorite to win it all this year.

....

....

...

2. KSU - Return everyone from a salty team.  They would be closer to the top but their coach is going to lose 3 games to inferior competition and he won't win in arenas he's not suppose to win at.

3. WVU - Lose some key players but they have the second or third best coach in the league and an elite rim protector.  Their defense will win them games on the road like it usually does.

4/5/6/7/8/9: Tech/Baylor/ISU/OSU/UT - What a shit show. TCU will be in this pack.  Tech has the best coach but lost great players.  Baylor probably needs to go back to zone defense to catch people off guard and keep weekly momentum.  ISU has a good returning roster but can the coach capitalize?  OSU is young and dumb this year but the coach is out to prove himself.  UT need sto show signs of an offense, especially since they don't have an eraser around the rim anymore.  Shaka will be coaching for his life with a lot of questions on the roster.  The only thing I'm sure of in this group is that tech will finish closer to 5 than to 9.  I wouldn't be surprised if this order shakes out in various ways.

10: OU - They let TY destroy the development of everyone that was playing around him and lost their only other guy who was a consistent and proven player (lattin).  No reason to think they are going to finish anything but last.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Jhawk

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

2 hours ago, bularry1 said:

I don't see a clear 2nd tier.  I just see Kansas and then the rest.  Maybe OU will be terrible so in their own 4th tier, but I'm not sure WV and K St are clearly better than Baylor, Tech and UT at this point.   Need to see the new faces and how teams look.

K St pretty much has everyone back. If they’re not on KU’s tier they’re a tier below it all by themselves.

[Cameltoe 114]

55 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

Here is kind of how I rank the big12 at first blush and without totally reviewing rosters.....

1. KU - I predict we'll lose 2-4 times this year and spend most of the season as #1 and be the favorite to win it all this year.

Lol, why exactly do you think this? Your roster is decimated. You think your incoming class is 2012 Kentucky then?

[Machinator 32099]

4 minutes ago, Cameltoe said:

Lol, why exactly do you think this? Your roster is decimated. You think your incoming class is 2012 Kentucky then?

I can't wait to revisit this (and a bunch of your other takes) 9 months from now. This is going to be one of Bill Self's most talented squads.

[Cameltoe 114]

3 minutes ago, Machinator said:

I can't wait to revisit this (and a bunch of your other takes) 9 months from now. This is going to be one of Bill Self's most talented squads.

Why wait 9 months? You can pull up posts I made 9 months ago about UT being on the upswing and making the dance in 2018 that everyone thought were ridiculous but were correct.

[Machinator 32099]

Just now, Cameltoe said:

Why wait 9 months? You can pull up posts I made 9 months ago about UT being on the upswing and making the dance in 2018 that everyone thought were ridiculous but were correct.

Most of them are buried in scat, so I'd rather not. I didn't disagree that we were going to make the dance in 2018. Since we've shifted boards, you've gone from optimist to absurd Pollyanna.

[texasstrong12 4668]

I don't think Kansas will be bad but I bet they are aren't as good as last year's team. 

I'll definitely take the over on 2-4 losses. 

[texasstrong12 4668]

1 hour ago, Jhawk said:

4. TCU - Started a young and injured team last year that is all coming back.  Dixon will have them back on track.  Watch out for them in 2019-20.

 

Yeah, except for the fact they lost their two best players in Brodziansky and Williams. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

3 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

Yeah, except for the fact they lost their two best players in Brodziansky and Williams. 

Was going to mention the same thing. 

[Jhawk 1075]

47 minutes ago, Cameltoe said:

Lol, why exactly do you think this? Your roster is decimated. You think your incoming class is 2012 Kentucky then?

You serious clark?  We definitely won't be the same at PG. That is for sure, but it doesn't take a NPOY PG to make the elite 8 or final four.

Spoiler

 

Our returning squad:

Azubukie - Dominant inside scorer who got the feedback that he needs to dominate the boards this year.  He'll be a starter and he has something to prove.  His 75% shooting pct. should draw defenses inside on him.

Silvio De Sousa - Questions on him being eligible are legit however everyone except Brian Bowen has been eligible thus far.  SDS had a guardian assigned to him when he moved to the US and that guy took money without SDS knowing (as alleged by the FBI).  He can be a huge contributor next year with big time experience.

Marcus Garrett - Solid ball handler and very long guard.  No outside shot but good at driving, passing, and going to be a great defensive guard.

Mitch Lightfoot - Gained 16 pounds since the end of the season to become more of a true big man.  Planning on gaining 10 more before the season and is a true hustle guy with some passing skills.  Will be great in the high-low offense that is definitely coming back.

Sam Cunliffe - Transfer from ASU.  Didn't play much last year but HCBS is infamous for not giving guards a long leash.  He will be ready this year but he likely won't crack the rotation.

Additions:

KJ Lawson - 6'8" 210 pound wing.  He spent 2 years at memphis played in 10 games as a frosh before medical redshirt.  His soph. year there he started 31 games, was AAC ROY scored 12.3ppg and 8.1rpg in 33 minutes.  He will get big minutes at the 3, might even start at the 3. 9 double doubles, 3rd best rebounder in the league.

Dedric Lawson - 6'9" 230 pound PF.  2 years at memphis. Y1: 16ppg, 9rpg, 55 blocks. 17 double doubles.  Led AAC in rebounding and 4th in scoring. Y2: 19&10 guy.  Top rebounder in AAC, 2nd best scorer, 46% from the field, 19 double doubles, 68 blocks.

Charlie Moore - 5'11" pg. Spent 1 year at Cal. 12.2ppg starting all games. Cal record holder for assists & 3's made.  Scored in double figures in 22 games, scored 38 in a game on 50% shooting and 15-17 from the stripe.  Was the #1 recruit out of illinois in 2016.

David McCormack - 6'10" 260 pound center. 4* guy coming in.  Doubt he will get a ton of play during conference season but if we need a body he will be there.

Devon Dotson - 6'2" PG. 5* guy, best recruit from NC, 3rd best pg in the class

Quentin Grimes - 6'5" combo guard.  Likely one and done, 8th ranked player in the class.

 

If I had to guess our depth chart I would put it something like this:

1: Moore/Dotson/Garrett

2: Grimes/Garrett

3: Garrett/D. Lawson/Grimes

4. KJ Lawson/SDS/Lightfoot

5. Azubukie/KJ/SDS/Mccormack

This doesn't include if we return Vick (once again I doubt it happens but he is obviously a fit at the 2/3 spot and gives even more depth).  I am not going to crown us national champs because shit happens. But we are going to win the league and we are going to be damn good.  This team isn't duke's roster of 5* talent that is all young.  This is a collection of experienced and proven talent mixed with a few great freshmen that won't have to carry a load on their shoulders.  We might not have a bunch of future lottery picks here but we have the best combination of talent and developed players in the entire NCAA.  There is a reason we have been ranked #1 since the day after the natty was decided.  And that was before we knew that Azubukie was coming back and that vick might be back.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Jhawk

[Jhawk 1075]

15 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

Yeah, except for the fact they lost their two best players in Brodziansky and Williams. 

I didn't realize that.  I looked at a roster several weeks ago and for some reason they were still on it.  I was under the impression that they were basically a younger version of KSU (returning everyone).  I would edit my post to say they will be in the pack but not outside of it.

[UT Lawnghorn 758]

1 hour ago, Cameltoe said:

Why wait 9 months? You can pull up posts I made 9 months ago about UT being on the upswing and making the dance in 2018 that everyone thought were ridiculous but were correct.

Lulz. This is such revisionist bullshit. Most of us, including myself, thought UT would make the tournament last year. Don't act like you were the only one. Hell, I think there's a decent chance we make the tournament this year. People are responding to your over the top rating of UT, not saying there's no chance they make the tournament. If UT, gets ranked as like a 6 seed or something, I'll eat crow about being wrong, but if they squeeze in as a 10 seed and finish near the bottom of the Big 12 like they did last year, you're not proving people wrong.  Plenty of us won't be surprised if they make the tournament.

1 hour ago, Cameltoe said:

Lol, why exactly do you think this? Your roster is decimated. You think your incoming class is 2012 Kentucky then?

Edit: nvm. OP is chugging the kool aid.

Edited June 5, 2018 by UT Lawnghorn

[Jhawk 1075]

18 minutes ago, UT Lawnghorn said:

Lulz. This is such revisionist bullshit. Most of us, including myself, thought UT would make the tournament last year. Don't act like you were the only one. Hell, I think there's a decent chance we make the tournament this year. People are responding to your over the top rating of UT, not saying there's no chance they make the tournament. If UT, gets ranked as like a 6 seed or something, I'll eat crow about being wrong, but if they squeeze in as a 10 seed and finish near the bottom of the Big 12 like they did last year, you're not proving people wrong.  Plenty of us won't be surprised if they make the tournament.

Regarding Kansas, their roster isn't decimated. They're adding the Lawson twins along with a great recruiting class. They'll have by far the most talented roster in a Big 12 where almost every team is getting worse from last year.  Projecting them to lose 2-4 games isn't some crazy prediction. They've lost 4 games or less in conference 8 out of the last 10 years in the Big 12. 

For the record, I'm predicting we lose 2-4 games all year.  This team has the feel of the 2010-2011 team where we had the morris twins (lawson bros being the new enforcers).  That team lost 2 games (UT and KSU) all year before being beat by VCU in the tourney.  This year we have a nasty schedule but the teams we are going up against are still a few levels below us from a relative talent standpoint.  Next year is going to be an exciting year for KU.  Especially if SDS is cleared.  It could be very exciting if Vick comes back and plays with effort like HCBS would require.

**Excitement for KU fans typically means heartbreak so it'll be exciting for the rest of the league too since everyone enjoys seeing us lose in the E8.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Jhawk

[texasstrong12 4668]

Michigan State, Nova, Stanford, Arizona State, Kentucky, probably some decent teams in the NIT season tip-off, plus the round robin schedule in the Big 12. 

Predicting 2-4 losses with that schedule is easy money. Kansas will definitely lose more games than that. 

[UT Lawnghorn 758]

7 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

For the record, I'm predicting we lose 2-4 games all year.  This team has the feel of the 2010-2011 team where we had the morris twins (lawson bros being the new enforcers).  That team lost 2 games (UT and KSU) all year before being beat by VCU in the tourney.  This year we have a nasty schedule but the teams we are going up against are still a few levels below us from a relative talent standpoint.  Next year is going to be an exciting year for KU.  Especially if SDS is cleared.  It could be very exciting if Vick comes back and plays with effort like HCBS would require.

**Excitement for KU fans typically means heartbreak so it'll be exciting for the rest of the league too since everyone enjoys seeing us lose in the E8.

Lulz. Well shit, then I take it back. That is crazy. Y’all have some tough OOC opponents.

[Machinator 32099]

Yeah, I thought Jhawk meant 2-4 games in conference.

I am bookmarking this page to revisit in 9 months.

[Jhawk 1075]

1 hour ago, UT Lawnghorn said:

Lulz. Well shit, then I take it back. That is crazy. Y’all have some tough OOC opponents.

I am trying to be reasonable as much as possible, but when you look at what is going on around the country, Villanova was going to probably be the only team that could potentially match us in the 3 categories of experience, talent, and depth.  They lost more guys than I thought they would though.  Duke is going to be a sexy pick and they will win a ton but they are going to start 5 freshmen and I don't think they have much quality depth.  We are really the only team that ranks in the top 5 of each of those 3 categories.  You look at the roster breakdown I hid in a spoiler in post #234 and we have a ton of guys that do a ton of things well.

I honestly have never been this confident in a team before, which probably means we end up losing our first 3 games.  Not even 2008 (I thought we were the 4th or 5th best team that year and we only lost 3 games that year (all in conference) and never were ranked above #2 (spending most of the year between 3-6). 

I'm not saying we are going to win a national championship but there is a reason I was saying all season that if KU doesn't lose the big12 in 2017-18 we aren't losing in 2018-19.  This team will have the expectation of a final 4, even among KU fans who are rather cynical about final 4 appearances since we typically bow out in the elite 8.  I'm hopeful we aren't disappointed because next winter is going to be one of the best since 2008.

I'm hoping I'm right.  No doubt me putting this on paper means we finish 5th in conference and have to suspend a ton of guys because the team hates each other.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Jhawk

[VolenteHawk 495]

The 2011 team itself wouldn’t get through this schedule with 2-4 losses. That team played in a shit league (outside of Texas) and played a bad non-con...not just “bad for Self” actually bad.

This KU team could be a Final Four FAVORITE and lose 7 games. And with the youth and shooting question marks on the perimeter, while they’re likely to be damn good, Final Four favorite is a pretty high bar.

[immortal13 4059]

2 hours ago, Jhawk said:

For the record, I'm predicting we lose 2-4 games all year.  

Where do I place my bet?

[Machinator 32099]

11 minutes ago, VolenteHawk said:

The 2011 team itself wouldn’t get through this schedule with 2-4 losses. That team played in a shit league (outside of Texas) and played a bad non-con...not just “bad for Self” actually bad.

This KU team could be a Final Four FAVORITE and lose 7 games. And with the youth and shooting question marks on the perimeter, while they’re likely to be damn good, Final Four favorite is a pretty high bar.

Exactly. Self has been scheduling the right way for his team. The insane non-cons put a cap on the regular season win-loss records and maybe cost KU a seed line, but they prepare the team well, and the experience gained usually allows them to peak at the right time.

[Cameltoe 114]

Assembling a shitload of talent from transfers and freshmen is great, but it doesn't guarantee anything. Graham, Mikaliuk, and Vick were at least known for sure to be good. Sure next year's KU team COULD be great. They could also be a disappointment. Probably they will be just good enough to win the Big12 regular season title. LOL. But, this "final four" "historically good" is just silly.

[qwertyu1234 496]

This team is lacking a wing who can shoot the three and i'd take the bet of 2-4 wins too. Non conference schedule is just too good. 

Edited June 6, 2018 by qwertyu1234

[Goo Punch 4275]

11 hours ago, Cameltoe said:

Lol, why exactly do you think this? Your roster is decimated. You think your incoming class is 2012 Kentucky then?

KU is going to start the season ranked 1st or 2nd in the country.

[texasstrong12 4668]

11 hours ago, qwertyu1234 said:

This team is lacking a wing who can shoot the three and i'd take the bet of 2-4 wins too. Non conference schedule is just too good. 

This is why I think people are overvaluing Kansas. Kansas has been a team that's lived and died by the 3 point line. It worked because they had really good 3 point shooters in Mykhailuk (.444), Graham (.406) and Newman (.415). 

Best 3 point shooter returning is Garrett at (.267)? Assuming Vick doesn't return. 

Charlie Moore shot (.352) from 3 his FR year at Cal. Dedric Lawson shot (.270 and .350) from 3 in his 2 years at Memphis. KJ Lawson shot (.222 and .328) from 3 in his 2 years at Memphis. 

Cunliffe was a pretty good 3 point shooter in his FR year at ASU (.405). Only shot (.250) last year from 3 in limited minutes at Kansas. 

Kansas is going to be really reliant on the two FR (Grimes and Dotson) being good 3 point shooters. Kansas needed a player like Cremo just as much as Texas needed. Kansas is either going to be playing a different style of basketball or there's going to be some major struggles from 3. 

I'm not saying Texas > Kansas, but I don't think Kansas has substantially better shooters than Texas will next year. 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2018 by texasstrong12

[Jhawk 1075]

It’s a tough schedule but nobody has the combination of experience, talent, and depth that we do. And we are definitely going to be favorites to make the final four. We are going to be #1 going into the season unless the media loves duke too much. Right now we are right behind duke in odds to win it all. I’d say we are a favorite to make the final four if not “the” favorite. 

Also, we are going to play a totally different style next year that will help our 3 point shooting.  The high-low offense is definitely coming back and we will have a nasty defense again because our depth allows aggression that we haven’t had for the last 3 years.  Playing frOm the inside out will hopefully collapse the defense enough to allow for more open shots on the perimeter. Finally, no one in the league right now has ever played against the high-low. No players were around for it when we could last play it. It is going to be a wildly different Ku team next year which is why a ton of people who really follow the team are extremely excited for it.

we might not win 36 games and I might be wrong on my loss prediction. But it’s a prediction and that is ok. I do believe this is going to be the best team self has had in the last 5 years and maybe the last 10 years (aside from the champ team). There are far less questions this year than there should be given we lost all but 1 starter. 

[txhorns 2409]

Coach Self will consume their enemies with fireballs from his eyes and bolts of lightning from his arse.

[Hurtlocker 2212]

Alright, I'm bored, especially of the he said/she said debate, so I'll give it a shot so someone can rage bet me:

Tier 1: (75+% conference win record)

1 -  KU - Lost the back court, but just reloaded with talent.   Their bench could beat the bottom tier of the Big 12.  Best bet: you'll want to choke out more than half of their fan base this year.

2 - KSU - Distant two, but up here for what has already been mentioned numerous times  Team voted most likely to piss this opportunity down their leg.

 

Tier 2: (50-75% conference win record)

3 - WVU - Upperclassmen and aggressive bigs, but lost their floor general.   Best bet: I'd take the under on this more than the over.  

4 - Texas - Upperclassmen, D hungry bigs, and a great recruiting class to give experience to is the way to build.  Could be dangerous if a "take over a game" player develops  Best bet: #5 seed in the dance.

5 - ISU - Lost one guy from a very young team and brought in more talent.   Not huge so will have to rely on shooting.  Best bet: don't, at all.  Complete wildcard.  Invest in hookers and blow instead.

6 -  TCU - Kind of an unknown at the moment with how they will reload.   Have talent left and Dixon obviously can coach.  If it comes together they could jump up or, you know, not.  Best bet: They'll outplay expectations

7 - Tech - Surprised Smith stayed in the draft, which leaves a bigger hole with Evans gone too.   Bringing in talent, but up or down will depend on how well they play defense. Best bet: Will have a few high profile wins, but likely will still fall under 50% in conference

 

Tier 3: (<50%)

8/9 - Oklahoma State/Baylor - Both have numerous holes to fill with transfers and bench players.   Most starters remaining were role players, so no idea how that will play out.   Best bet: four conference wins, which includes one at home to each other and Oklahoma.  

10 - Oklahoma -

 

 

Edited June 6, 2018 by Hurtlocker

[texasstrong12 4668]

15 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

Alright, I'm bored, especially of the he said/she said debate, so I'll give it a shot so someone can rage bet me:

Tier 1: (75+% conference win record)

1 -  KU - Lost the back court, but just reloaded with talent.   Their bench could beat the bottom tier of the Big 12.  Best bet: you'll want to choke out more than half of their fan base this year.

2 - KSU - Distant two, but up here for what has already been mentioned numerous times  Team voted most likely to piss this opportunity down their leg.

 

Tier 2: (50-75% conference win record)

3 - WVU - Upperclassmen and aggressive bigs, but lost their floor general.   Best bet: I'd take the under on this more than the over.  

4 - Texas - Upperclassmen, D hungry bigs, and a great recruiting class to give experience to is the way to build.  Could be dangerous if a "take over a game" player develops  Best bet: #5 seed in the dance.

5 - ISU - Lost one guy from a very young team and brought in more talent.   Not huge so will have to rely on shooting.  Best bet: don't, at all.  Complete wildcard.  Invest in hookers and blow instead.

6 -  TCU - Kind of an unknown at the moment with how they will reload.   Have talent left and Dixon obviously can coach.  If it comes together they could jump up or, you know, not.  Best bet: They'll outplay expectations

7 - Tech - Surprised Smith stayed in the draft, which leaves a bigger hole with Evans gone too.   Bringing in talent, but up or down will depend on how well they play defense. Best bet: Will have a few high profile wins, but likely will still fall under 50% in conference

 

Tier 3: (<50%)

8/9 - Oklahoma State/Baylor - Both have numerous holes to fill with transfers and bench players.   Most starters remaining were role players, so no idea how that will play out.   Best bet: four conference wins, which includes one at home to each other and Oklahoma.  

10 - Oklahoma -

 

 

This is about where I would have it, but I would probably have Iowa State much lower. I do agree they are kind of a wildcard. 

I tend to agree with the tier system outside of Iowa State. I would have them in tier 3. 

Edited June 6, 2018 by texasstrong12