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Difference makers. Who are they?

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 50035

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10 hours ago, gmr548 said:

LJH, Boyd, Roach (he is being woefully underutilized and I feel like Orlando is getting a pass), are the three guys I think could see the field damn near anywhere. I bet a Saban or a Patterson would love to have those guys. A few iffy guys after that. Jury out on Jones, C and G Johnson. Chris Nelson is solid but not spectacular.

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Orlando's use of Roach's talent thus far is inexcusable.  Need some Dawgs to show up at DL and LB for USC game.  Before Season, the DL was touted as strength of the Team..... wtf happened

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Enchubben

Enchubben 5600

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1 minute ago, LTtxfan said:

Orlando's use of Roach's talent thus far is inexcusable.  Need some Dawgs to show up at DL and LB for USC game.  Before Season, the DL was touted as strength of the Team..... wtf happened

Just my opinion, but I think all the 9.95ers mistook depth for talent. We have a lot of good players but not a one of them is a difference maker. 

If they haven’t been getting to the qb by now, it’s probably not gonna happen this year, and next year will be worse after graduation. Better hope Ojomo and Coburn develope quickly.

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Slacks

Slacks 7070

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Orlando's use of Roach's talent thus far is inexcusable.  Need some Dawgs to show up at DL and LB for USC game.  Before Season, the DL was touted as strength of the Team..... wtf happened
zero sum. who were the tackles blocking Omenihu and Hager in spring and most of summer? one of them is now a backup.
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Chad

Chad 1728

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5 hours ago, Goredho said:

Based on a trend for physically gifted players that don’t develop here but who blossom under an NFL coaching staff.

Just because a receiver is physically gifted doesn't mean he'll succeed in the NFL. Dorial Green-Beckham was 6'5 with 4.4 speed and isn't even on an NFL roster after being drafted a mere 3 seasons ago. CJ will be drafted in a mid round with a chance to prove himself, but measurables alone don't guarantee success perhaps he's just not very good?

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Sejjr

Sejjr 3250

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3 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

Orlando's use of Roach's talent thus far is inexcusable.  Need some Dawgs to show up at DL and LB for USC game.  Before Season, the DL was touted as strength of the Team..... wtf happened

The DL was touted as such because there was a false narrative that Hager and Omenihu were elite players. I even read multiple 9.95er and pre-season national know-nothings hype them as the top DE combo in the Big 12 and one of the best in the nation. Laughable, man. The Hager hype never made any sense, as he is a solid player who is easy to scheme against, while Omenihu has never played up to his physical stature. 

The fact that nobody can agree on who these difference makers are in this thread tells you that we really don't have any, though I think we can all agree that Ingram will be one once healthy and given the bulk of the carries.

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 50035

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16 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

Agree.....

Watch Cosmi, cause he had a great game run blocking versus Tulsa

More on Cosmi vs Tulsa...

 "A single change that will ultimately benefit this offensive line was putting redshirt freshman Sam Cosmi in at right tackle. For the past year, sophomore tackle Derek Kerstetter manned the starting right tackle position. Yet, Cosmi did a fantastic job in sealing up that edge in his first full game starting at the position.

In fact, Pro Football Focus named Cosmi one of its National Team of the Week players on offense for Week 2. Cosmi was the only player for the Longhorns featured on that team and it showed how good he really was for them in the close win over the Tulsa Golden Hurricane."

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ousux

ousux 5649

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I hope Orlando is not seriously leaving Roach as a LB falling back into coverage, he looked completely out of place.
Hoping that this is all a ploy to fuck up USC's game planning and that Roach is back on the DL causing havoc.
Once Overshown gets back on the field I expect Roach goes back to DE where he belongs, and more LB blitzing vs USC regardless..
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FloridaHorn

FloridaHorn 4887

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37 minutes ago, SA-KC_Horn said:

I hope Orlando is not seriously leaving Roach as a LB falling back into coverage, he looked completely out of place.

Hoping that this is all a ploy to fuck up USC's game planning and that Roach is back on the DL causing havoc.

I think Roach had gotten stuck there because of our lack of depth at the LB position. Getting Dele back and eventually Overshown, should allow him to move back to his more natural position.

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Slacks

Slacks 7070

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Who are the (positive) difference makers on our team?

 

Who would start for every team in the conference (or compete for time in the case of all-conference guys being ahead of them)?

 

Ingram, LJH, Johnson (maybe), Vahe (maybe)

Roach (at DE), Sterns, Boyd, Foster (maybe)

 

Anybody else?

 

But I still think we have enough talent to be better than what we have been... I think there are some guys who should be better... obviously.

 

So... we agree (mostly) on...

 

Ingram, LJH

Sterns, Jones, Boyd, Roach (ish)

 

Yet I think we all know we should have more than that from what we have.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Or we're going to win 4 games.

 

 

 

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Slacks

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Lmao at Vahe being a difference maker.  He’s started here for 4 years bc we’ve had shit talent on the OL.  Easy to beat out guys like Terrell Cuny.  He wouldn’t start at half the other shitty schools in our conference let alone be a difference maker.  
And he's our best OG in about 10 years. How is this possible?
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Treefidy

Treefidy 1507

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All our defensive difference makers left early.  Dickson, Jefferson, Elliott, and hill; imagine how good the defense would be with those guys returning and then put roach back in position. 

But you have to have buy-in, hope for something great on the horizon or guys will roll the dice and try to move on.  Even with age, experience and depth the offense is such a clusterfuck that we couldn't keep our difference makers due to lake of hope.  

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Fastbreak

Fastbreak 4057

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14 hours ago, Goredho said:

Based on a trend for physically gifted players that don’t develop here but who blossom under an NFL coaching staff.

I would argue that CJ isn't any more gifted than Limas Sweed and much less productive in college.

Sweed ended his NFL career with 7 catches for 69 yards and 0 TDs.

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BurdineBandit

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21 hours ago, Sejjr said:

The DL was touted as such because there was a false narrative that Hager and Omenihu were elite players. I even read multiple 9.95er and pre-season national know-nothings hype them as the top DE combo in the Big 12 and one of the best in the nation. Laughable, man. The Hager hype never made any sense, as he is a solid player who is easy to scheme against, while Omenihu has never played up to his physical stature. 

 

This. I've been saying to anybody who will listen that neither Hager nor Omenihu are even close to the level that our best DE's were on. (Post-Rose Bowl NC) Orakpo>Kindle>Jeffcoat/Okafor>... probably one or two more...>Hager/Omenihu. These guys aren't close to those All Big-12 players.

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sidis

sidis 10019

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i find it amusing how much credit give ljh.  he has a lot of touches but has to be one of the least "clutch" players...bad drops in big moments.

positive difference makers:

offense: ingram, blocking effort from duvernay on offense.  anderson has been pretty good in pass protection.

defense: sterns, foster, jones and roach the few downs he has actually played de.

special teams: dicker looks pretty solid so far.

negative difference makers:

offense: qb, c, horrible wr play.

defense: dline across the board, lbs across the board, cb has been pretty underwhelming but not necessarily negative difference makers.

special teams: inconsistent punting.

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Tex Pete

Tex Pete 21510

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3 hours ago, Tylerocks said:

I think Collin Johnson could be a difference maker.

A guy with his size and hands should be a HUGE difference maker.

I'm putting his lack of production on the coaching and QB's. 

Sorry, a horrendous lack of effort is not due to coaching. It can be helped with coaching, but only the person in question can give effort. And people bitched last year when CJ didn't start. He needs to look in the mirror.

 

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Tylerocks

Tylerocks 2603

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2 hours ago, Tex Pete said:

Sorry, a horrendous lack of effort is not due to coaching. It can be helped with coaching, but only the person in question can give effort. And people bitched last year when CJ didn't start. He needs to look in the mirror.

 

 

Maybe so.  I'm not at practice and I don't analyze games the way some folks around here claim to.  All I know is he's 6'6 220 lbs and is a natural mismatch on anybody on the other side of the ball. 

Sam isn't all that accurate.  Tim Beck is a fucking moron. Our OL is below average.  All those points would factor into a WR not being as productive as we would like.

 

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sidis

sidis 10019

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last year, i was at an event before the season started in which i was sitting at a table with deshon elliott and colin johnson and i asked elliott which of the wrs was the most physical and toughest in all the one on one hit drills.  he did not hestiate for a second to say jerrod heard.

that made me sad for a while re: johnson's prospects of being a difference maker.

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El Squared

El Squared 1855

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On 9/12/2018 at 12:02 PM, Chad said:

Just because a receiver is physically gifted doesn't mean he'll succeed in the NFL. Dorial Green-Beckham was 6'5 with 4.4 speed and isn't even on an NFL roster after being drafted a mere 3 seasons ago. CJ will be drafted in a mid round with a chance to prove himself, but measurables alone don't guarantee success perhaps he's just not very good?

What NFL standout WR are afraid of contact? That’s C.J. Maybe that will change, but I think it’s hard to unlearn that behavior on a much more intense level.

Edited by El Squared
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gmr548

gmr548 16704

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8 hours ago, Walden Ponderer said:

Sam and Shane would both be starting on several other teams, and if a coach used them properly, both would be a helluva lot better on those other teams.

We'll never know, though, because just like CJ and LJH, they currently have a position coach who ought to be bagging groceries for a living.

Agreed. Shane would be a huge problem for us at Tech, TCU, OSU, or OU. Sam would rush for 300 yards on us at KSU. A QB guru like Gundy or Riley probably also has him sit, learn, and plays him to his strengths when his time comes. That's just in the conference.

Ehlinger obviously needed more time mentally. The kind of guy who is nowhere near ready as a young guy but could have had a coming out party as a RS JR or something. Unfortunately his bad habits are probably ingrained by now. Shane was a bit more ready mentally, but got beat up physically as a true FR, and the played behind that awful OL last year and had coaches call the game like he was Sam. Le sigh.

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SKA the boss

SKA the boss 729

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Maybe so.  I'm not at practice and I don't analyze games the way some folks around here claim to. 

Watch the final drive of the Tulsa game and it will tell you all you need to know. He gets man-handled and knocked to the ground on his blocks several times. When he's feigning a pass route, he doesn't fly off the line because he knows it's a run after all.
It would be great if he would show some bite and utilize his natural advantages, but if it don't bite as a pup, you can't coach it to.
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Ldogg53

Ldogg53 514

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So... we agree (mostly) on... 
Ingram, LJH
Sterns, Jones, Boyd, Roach (ish)
 
Yet I think we all know we should have more than that from what we have.
 
 
 
 
 
 
Or we're going to win 4 games.
 
 
 


No. Not accurate.
What you’re asking for is who of our players could or should be All B12. On that basis no team has more than around 4 guys. It’s fucking football. It’s the collective that matters. And it’s the coaching making the best of that. Which we don’t have. But this team does have some legit playmakers. They just need the right plays to make.
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SKA the boss

SKA the boss 729

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Seems to me that roach at DE and Hager at LB would be an improvement.  
We know roach can play well on the line, what is it about Hager that wouldn't make him a good LB?

Hager seems to be a one trick pony. Perhaps as a 3rd down specialist who blitzes or spies mobile qbs?? He hasn't shown good change of direction. And he doesn't seem to have an instinct for the ball or high football i.q.
But, yeah, he's not exactly lighting it up with his hand on the ground.
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Blutarski

Blutarski 21

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Kevin Sherringon opinion article on this topic today in Dallas Morning News -- top story on front page of Dallas Morning News SportsDay:

Spoiler

The Longhorns used to have NFL talent all over the roster. What happened?

Among the great mysteries of this young season is how Texas could lose to a team without its head coach and barely hold off Tulsa, not to mention we can't seem to find that cake Charlie Strong baked.

And don't even get us started on the difference between this week's Texas-USC game and the one for the ages.

But it's really not so hard to figure what's up. Tom Herman told us as much this summer.

Asked at Big 12 media days how many difference-makers he had, he stalled, then said, "Some."

Better answer: Not nearly as many as Texas used to have. And it's not hard to see what happened to them.

Recruiting experts may disagree, but the best way to judge talent is to see what the NFL thinks. Generally speaking, a College Football Playoff appearance is followed by a boom in the draft. And that's not because the NFL likes trophies. It's because talent usually wins.

For instance: Forty-five Texas players who competed in the aughts, a decade Mack Brown remembers fondly, were drafted from 2002-11. A dozen were first-rounders.

For an idea of how far Texas has fallen, from the '12 draft through last spring, 17 Texas players have been drafted. Only two were first-rounders.

So what happened to all those great players Texas once produced? Did they go to Oklahoma, which still competes for the CFP regularly? Not really. The NFL selected 49 Sooners in 2002-11 drafts. Since then, the pros have taken 36, which puts Oklahoma pretty much on schedule for the rest of this decade, though they're behind on first-rounders, 11-2.

The real difference is spread out among Texas' former Southwest Conference pals here in the Lone Star State.

With the exception of Texas Tech, which definitely feels the post-Mike Leach effect, the rest of the old SWC guard from Texas is doing better in the draft. Some significantly better.

Probably your first thought was that TCU must be way up in draft picks this decade. Just the other day, an anonymous former Big 12 coach told ESPN there were "four, maybe five guys at Texas who could play for TCU."

Let that sink in: Not even a half-dozen Longhorns could play regularly for Gary Patterson.

But, really, Gary is just doing what Gary does. The talent may be better in Fort Worth these days, but the results are the same in the draft. Twenty-three Frogs were picked from 2002-11. The number since? Sixteen and counting.

The single-biggest reason in Texas or Oklahoma for the talent drain in Austin is just up the road in Waco, where Baylor has had 20 players taken since the '11 draft. That's three more than Texas and eight more than the Bears had from 2002-11. Baylor also leads Texas in first-rounders, 3-2.

Now you know why so many Baylor fans were sorry to see Art Briles go.

Houston, Rice, SMU and Texas A&M have already matched or exceeded their number of NFL picks from 2002-11. SMU (10) has twice as many, which accounts for the fact that Chad Morris works at Arkansas now.

On the other hand, no coach in Texas or Oklahoma has produced more first-round picks since '11 than Kevin Sumlin, with eight. His total of 25 picks overall beats the 23 that A&M produced from 2002-11, also.

Yet, with the exception of the Johnny Football Era, the Aggies couldn't rise past mediocre under Sumlin.

Among the possible conclusions:

1.) Sumlin was in over his head, which might explain his 0-2 start at Arizona, including a 45-18 loss to Houston.

2.) The SEC is a tough place to play.

3.) Jimbo Fisher was left more than we reckoned, explaining how he came so close to beating Clemson.

Whatever you make of what's happening in College Station, it appears far more promising than the situation in Austin. Texas fans simply weren't accustomed to this sort of thing back in Mack's heyday.

Not only were they used to seeing Longhorns drafted, they expected to see them play on Sundays.

Besides the dozen first-rounders from 2002-11, Texas also had six taken in the second round, nine in the third and six in the fourth. All those totals exceed what they've done in each round since.

Of course, I suppose it's possible that Herman can still catch up. Simply needs to average nine picks in each of the next three drafts.

Or one draft like 1984, when the NFL picked 18 Longhorns. That's right. Eighteen. You could look it up.

Also explains how Fred Akers came within a muffed punt of winning a national title in '83.

Chances seem pretty good that Herman is not going to beat Fred's single-season record on draft picks. Unless he can start reversing state-wide trends, he's going to have to coach 'em up a little better. Maybe a lot.

Edited by Blutarski
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Revolution512

Revolution512 1518

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I’ll say this for Herman, the last class has some real studs in it. When is the last time you saw freshman jump out at you like Sterns, Foster and Ingram? 

Malik was in that ballpark perhaps but his athleticism never wowed people like those three have this early.

 Those three legitimately made me check the roster after thinking damn who was that flying across the screen?

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Slacks

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No. Not accurate.
What you’re asking for is who of our players could or should be All B12. On that basis no team has more than around 4 guys. It’s fucking football. It’s the collective that matters. And it’s the coaching making the best of that. Which we don’t have. But this team does have some legit playmakers. They just need the right plays to make.
I agree that we need to optimize the play calling to fit the skills. I've posted that in other threads more than once...

But if we go by all big 12, right now I see Boyd and nobody else. (Maybe Vahe, whom everyone hates for some reason, even though he's the least likely to straight up whiff and the most likely to go find more work, but whatever...)
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Tired of Lurking

Tired of Lurking 637

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Can we let Brandon Jones heal for more than a week before we write him off as a difference maker? Yeesh. He's clearly the best defensive player on the team and once he and Sterns have some more time sharing the third level, man. Look out.

I agree with those saying we need Roach on the DL. Just run a 4-2-5, Orlando. Drop or rush Johnson/Wheeler, and have Hager-Nelson-Omenihu-Roach as a four man rush almost every play.

I think the offensive side is better than most of you give it credit for because I am seeing some sustained drives that I haven't seen since Foreman was carrying the rock, but they do need to be more careful with holding on early downs and Beck needs to call a better series of plays to limit three and outs. When they click like they have for 3 drives against Maryland and 4 drives against Tulsa, with a great series of playcalls and by eating clock, they have the potential to really punish some defenses. But those four three in outs in the third quarter did not help the defense at all. They need to cut that shit out.

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