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Cruz vs Beto

Washpark

By Washpark
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Chuckie Finster

Chuckie Finster 22600

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

And those 19-29 year olds start paying taxes, having families, and moving right.  

I'm in my 30s and don't know a single former liberal who has converted to Republican.  That definitely used to be a thing, but a decade straight of the Jesus freaks followed by the Trumpkins (combined with crippling student loans and a dearth of home purchases) has potentially alienated an entire generation of potential Republican recruits.  We will eventually catch up with home ownership and money in the bank, but I think the political views will be entrenched already. 

There are definitely friends of mine who are solid R votes, but they've been that way since they were 18 years old.  

I think the "you get more conservative as you age" mindset will no longer be an accepted conclusion in 10 years.

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Hank Scorpio
Hank Scorpio

I'm sorry, look at all these old fucking goblins at this thing:  Let's go one by one:  Beatrice She has not missed a single city council meeting or church bingo in 35 years. S

Born to Run
Born to Run

I’ve heard this bullshit my entire life, hell I used to believe the myth that Republicans were all about “faith in the common man succeeding when unimpeded by the govt.” Left alone business and humani

austingirl
austingirl

I do volunteer work for Beto's campaign (surprise!). I get called a "libtard" on a regular basis and get a lot of responses that are just "#MAGA!" and the like, but I also hear a lot of "who is Beto?"

SuingToGetAMessageBoard?

SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861

Posted
Posted

The whole "people move right as they age" comes from that quote where "if you're 20 and your a conservative, you have no heart.  if you're 40 and a liberal you have no brain" or whatever.  It's a dumb trope.  It's neither right nor wrong.  It's a gross over simplification that you can find just as much support for as opposing support.  If it was true every red line would be angled up and every blue line would be angled down.  And that's not what happens.

 

4-6-2015_06.png

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104619

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

The Dems have moved farther to the extreme than the GOP. By an order of magnitude.  

The Dems used to have blue dogs.  Now they don’t.  Bill Clinton’s 1996 platform is right of Trump.  JFK is even farther right.  

To the extent that you MIGHT have been right, the phenomenon I pointed out has changed that.

The crowd hanging out at Dem meetings, campaign events, election watch parties, etc.....it ain't the hippy loopy leftists.  It's a lot of folks like me and my family -- professionals, suburban women, etc.  The lurch to the right has helped stock the Dems with folks a lot closer to the center.

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

Posted
Posted
Just now, Brisketexan said:

To the extent that you MIGHT have been right, the phenomenon I pointed out has changed that.

The crowd hanging out at Dem meetings, campaign events, election watch parties, etc.....it ain't the hippy loopy leftists.  It's a lot of folks like me and my family -- professionals, suburban women, etc.  The lurch to the right has helped stock the Dems with folks a lot closer to the center.

Let’s see if they stick around once the Dems start governing.  

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Horn21

Horn21 168

Posted
Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

And those 19-29 year olds start paying taxes, having families, and moving right.  

 

16 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

That’s great.  Most people move to the right as they age.  Just a fact.  

 

13 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

They used to.

I'm genuinely surprised at how many of my peers (and even older folks) have shifted left (or, more accurately, have shifted in strong opposition to the hard lurch to the right we've seen by the Dan Patrick and Trump crowds).  The farther right the Patrick-Trump wing runs, the more centrist and center right folks they leave behind.

I think you're ignoring reality, Sack.  Brisket is correct.

Trump and his pack of GOP cowards who bend the knee to him have turned off the female and the educated demographics, regardless of age.

The only demographic adding numbers for the GOP are uneducated white males.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104619

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Johnny Sack said:

Let’s see if they stick around once the Dems start governing.  

A fair point.

But being that a lot of those same folks are actual Dem candidates, who have won actual elections, indicates to me that you'll see a party governing generally in line with the values of its voters.  I know quite a few Dem judicial race winners.  By and large, they aren't hairy-armpitted hippy libs.  They're actually pretty reasonable, generally center-minded people (in fact, they are a LOT like many of the GOP judicial race winners I knew 15 years ago or so -- seriously, you'd be hard-pressed to tell them apart).  I expect they will perform in office consistent with their moderate beliefs.

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gmr548

gmr548 16513

Posted
Posted
That’s great.  Most people move to the right as they age.  Just a fact.  

Yeah, the generation for which the boomers so kindly pulled up the ladder of economic opportunity after it was extended by their parents will definitely follow in their footsteps. Jlawokay.gif

Also, research indicates that the trend is more tied to your political views/ environment when you come of age. Millenials came of age with GWB and Trump juxtaposed with Clinton and Obama. That's the fucking ballgame right there. Just look at the numbers. The age at which the GOP starts to get killed keeps creeping up. 18-24 became 18-29, then 18-35...

Not to mention the rise of social media exposing the worst impulses of the far right, rising rates of educational attainment (despite boomers trying to fuck us out of it), less white population, etc. Take comfort in that outdated platitude if you want to, but know it's disingenuous at best and more likely outright wrong.

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45495

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1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

Beto needs to go national.  VP or P on the 2020 ballot.  He may not have foreseen a rise on the national radar the way it played out, but this is what is in front of him.  Strike while the iron is hot.

This.  Beto's future is national, not Texas.  He will still have great name recognition in 2 years at the national level.  

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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3903

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4 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

The whole "people move right as they age" comes from that quote where "if you're 20 and your a conservative, you have no heart.  if you're 40 and a liberal you have no brain" or whatever.  It's a dumb trope.  It's neither right nor wrong.  It's a gross over simplification that you can find just as much support for as opposing support.  If it was true every red line would be angled up and every blue line would be angled down.  And that's not what happens.

 

4-6-2015_06.png

Well, in Francois' defense, he wrote that almost 200 years ago..... about France.

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 32701

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Posted
The whole "people move right as they age" comes from that quote where "if you're 20 and your a conservative, you have no heart.  if you're 40 and a liberal you have no brain" or whatever.  It's a dumb trope.  It's neither right nor wrong.  It's a gross over simplification that you can find just as much support for as opposing support.  If it was true every red line would be angled up and every blue line would be angled down.  And that's not what happens.
 
4-6-2015_06.png
Only one group got more Republican and it's the one dying off. You are correct that the trope he is repeating is incorrect. More recent research has shown that people's political views and identities are more likely to be set in their politically formative years, such as the current generation getting turned off of the GOP by Trump.
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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

Posted
Posted
Just now, Huckleberry said:
12 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:
The whole "people move right as they age" comes from that quote where "if you're 20 and your a conservative, you have no heart.  if you're 40 and a liberal you have no brain" or whatever.  It's a dumb trope.  It's neither right nor wrong.  It's a gross over simplification that you can find just as much support for as opposing support.  If it was true every red line would be angled up and every blue line would be angled down.  And that's not what happens.
 
4-6-2015_06.png

Read more  

Only one group got more Republican and it's the one dying off. You are correct that the trope he is repeating is incorrect. More recent research has shown that people's political views and identities are more likely to be set in their politically formative years, such as the current generation getting turned off of the GOP by Trump.

Sounds like Democrats have got this and will dominate the next 30 years.  At least.  

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 32701

Posted
Posted
Sounds like Democrats have got this and will dominate the next 30 years.  At least.  

Would you like to discuss the research and facts or just continue to ignore them? You posted a tired lie and he posted the data that shows you were wrong. You predictably responded with a weak quip. Is that the best you can do?

 

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

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Posted
18 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

The Dems have moved farther to the extreme than the GOP. By an order of magnitude.  

The Dems used to have blue dogs.  Now they don’t.  Bill Clinton’s 1996 platform is right of Trump.  JFK is even farther right.  

@jimmyjazz can you stop negging me on my politics posts just because you disagree?  It isn’t good for the board.  I don’t neg people I disagree with.  You should stop.   

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RPM

RPM 26228

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Who isn’t selfish?  Isn’t it selfish to vote for other people to pay more taxes when you pay very little?

Isn't it selfish to run up a massive deficit that your kids and grandkids will be saddled with? Maybe you've made a deal with Manbearpig. 

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

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Just now, RPM said:

Isn't it selfish to run up a massive deficit that your kids and grandkids will be saddled with? Maybe you've made a deal with Manbearpig. 

Our deficit issue is structural.  And I’m against it.  Entitlements, military and interest.  We are fucked.  I’d support pro rata cuts to our budget. And pro rata increases to taxes.  Instead of picking winners and losers.  

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SuingToGetAMessageBoard?

SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861

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1 minute ago, RPM said:

Aggy, Sand Aggy and Rapelor. The rest go to Tarleton (Aggy, Jr).

Someone pointed this out the other day and I found it fascinating w/r/t Texas.  Of the 25 most educated GOP districts, 16 flipped to D this cycle.  Of those 9 that didn't 6 are in Texas.

 

In other words, educated Texans vote differently than virtually anywhere else in the country.  It gave me a lot to ponder.  My conclusion?  (I happen to have just read some Larry McMurty):  We value the cowboy imagery of ourselves so much that our votes reflect that.  R is the party of the country.  The country means open ranges and beautiful vistas.  That's what I'm voting for.

 

 

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 32701

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Posted
The definition of education has changed. 
Is the plumber with a high school diploma earning 6 figures dumber than the three degreed Barista with $250k in debt?
Not understanding the difference between education and intelligence doesn't really help your credibility in that discussion.
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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45558

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Interesting question.  Do you know a lot of 3-degreed baristas who are $250K in debt?

Because I know a shit ton of plumbers with HS diplomas.  (If they own their own business, they're typically doing quite well for themselves.)

Your question begs the concept that education doesn't correlate with career or financial success, and that's not provable.

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SuingToGetAMessageBoard?

SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861

Posted
Posted
Just now, Johnny Sack said:

The definition of education has changed. 

Is the plumber with a high school diploma earning 6 figures dumber than the three degreed Barista with $250k in debt?

so deep.  

 

are men stronger than women?  i mean, there's jackie joyner kersey over here and DJ Qualls over there.

is gold more valuable than aluminum?  i mean, one can be fashioned into the casing for a large hadron collider and the other one can just be $25 earrings.

who is smarter?  humans or dogs?  i mean, over here, you got air bud who was able to learn the rules of multiple sports and over there you got johnny sack.

 

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

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1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

Interesting question.  Do you know a lot of 3-degreed baristas who are $250K in debt?

Because I know a shit ton of plumbers with HS diplomas.  (If they own their own business, they're typically doing quite well for themselves.)

Your question begs the concept that education doesn't correlate with career or financial success, and that's not provable.

I don’t know a single barista.  I know there are a ton of dipshits who ran up a hundred grand plus in debt getting shitty liberal arts degrees.  And that demographic will be 98 percent democrat.  

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RPM

RPM 26228

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9 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

Someone pointed this out the other day and I found it fascinating w/r/t Texas.  Of the 25 most educated GOP districts, 16 flipped to D this cycle.  Of those 9 that didn't 6 are in Texas.

 

In other words, educated Texans vote differently than virtually anywhere else in the country.  It gave me a lot to ponder.  My conclusion?  (I happen to have just read some Larry McMurty):  We value the cowboy imagery of ourselves so much that our votes reflect that.  R is the party of the country.  The country means open ranges and beautiful vistas.  That's what I'm voting for.

 

 

That and D is the party that doesn't hate Mexicans or Blacks.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104619

Posted
Posted
Just now, RPM said:

That and D is the party that doesn't hate Mexicans or Blacks.

That's a much bigger issue than GOP fanboys want to admit.  A shitload of folks who were in or friendly to the GOP believed the lie that we were post-racial.  A lot of those folks have had their eyes opened, and they're freaking appalled.  For fuck's sake, people are shouting out "Heil Hitler! Heil Trump!" during fucking showings of Fiddler on the Roof.  For fuck's sake, man.  Fuck that shit, and fuck the fucking enablers in the fucking GOP who are perfectly happy to court these people.

The number of Americans who think that's 100% unacceptable in all circumstances is bigger than you think, and includes a lot of folks who might otherwise be comfortable voting center-right.

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45558

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Posted
Just now, Brisketexan said:

That's a much bigger issue than GOP fanboys want to admit.  A shitload of folks who were in or friendly to the GOP believed the lie that we were post-racial.  A lot of those folks have had their eyes opened, and they're freaking appalled.  For fuck's sake, people are shouting out "Heil Hitler! Heil Trump!" during fucking showings of Fiddler on the Roof.  For fuck's sake, man.  Fuck that shit, and fuck the fucking enablers in the fucking GOP who are perfectly happy to court these people.

The number of Americans who think that's 100% unacceptable in all circumstances is bigger than you think, and includes a lot of folks who might otherwise be comfortable voting center-right.

100% unacceptable?  Let's not go there.  For instance, I think it's reasonable to expect that the guy stocking the produce racks has, at the very least, a nice tan.

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Horn21

Horn21 168

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Posted
32 minutes ago, UrbanAchiever said:

I'm 40 [insert Mike Gundy rant here], have a family, and I'm as liberal as I was at 18. I don't mind paying more taxes if it means taking care of things the boomer generation of elected officials has spectacularly failed at, primarily addressing the exorbitant costs of college, health care, child care and housing. 

 

7 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Sounds like Democrats have got this and will dominate the next 30 years.  At least.  

You're sorta whistling past the graveyard if you don't take issue with the current GOP leadership direction.  It's easy to scare dumb people, and that's Trump's tactic.  Let's demonize the media and the liberal public educators and keep folks scared.  That's his plan.

I grew up in suburban Dallas and have voted Republican/Libertarian in every election since 1996.  I just turned 40 this year and voted for a slew of Dems for the first time in my life.  Even typing "I voted for Dems" is a bit of a shock to my system.  Sure, my worldview has changed somewhat over the years.  But more than that, I've come to realize that the current GOP does not stand for the kinds of things that I thought it stood throughout my 20s and into my 30s.

My default position is to be skeptical of politicians in general, any of them really.  So while the issues matter to me, I don't trust many politicians to maintain integrity on their stated positions on the issues.  This election, for me and many others, went beyond the issues.  It came down to decency and leading with hope rather than fear.  Is Beto a perfect candidate?  Hardly.  But unlike Cruz, he focused on hope and moving our country forward as a diverse group of people, while Cruz cowered to Trump and tried to win my vote by telling me that I need to be scared of brown people and baby-killing liberals.  He gave me zero reason to actually vote for him.

It might be anecdotal, but I've talked to a lot of friends and acquaintances in the same position.  Me (40), my wife (37), and my mom (70) all punched D on our ballots for a lot of candidates for the first time in our lives this month.  I just found out this week that my mom voted for a lot of Dems.  I was shocked.  "Unfortunately for him, I cancelled out your Dad's vote." 

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gmr548

gmr548 16513

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Posted
Can someone point me to current GOP platforms that would cause an educated 19-29 year old to move from the center or the left to the right?  I get it, it used to happen a lot.  Lower taxes, more "family" shit. But what now? 

Narrator: No one could.

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elfenix

elfenix 34171

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Who isn’t selfish?  Isn’t it selfish to vote for other people to pay more taxes when you pay very little?

 

 

Is voting to give yourself a tax cut while burdening everyone with inflation selfish?

 

 

Our deficit issue is structural.  And I’m against it.  Entitlements, military and interest.  We are fucked.  I’d support pro rata cuts to our budget. And pro rata increases to taxes.  Instead of picking winners and losers.  

Well then let's just move to a wealth tax and everyone can pay the same share of their "winnings"

 

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bolverk

bolverk 29399

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

lol at Democrats governing being a “freak show”.

I’ll take a freak show over the current racist, fascist, fear mongering clown show the Republicans have been putting on for the last two years.

Bring on the freaks!

I highly recommend the novel "Geek Love." The word "geek" in the title equates to "circus freak." It's really a great book. /csb

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