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Cruz vs Beto

Washpark

By Washpark
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Hank Scorpio
Hank Scorpio

I'm sorry, look at all these old fucking goblins at this thing:  Let's go one by one:  Beatrice She has not missed a single city council meeting or church bingo in 35 years. S

Born to Run
Born to Run

I’ve heard this bullshit my entire life, hell I used to believe the myth that Republicans were all about “faith in the common man succeeding when unimpeded by the govt.” Left alone business and humani

austingirl
austingirl

I do volunteer work for Beto's campaign (surprise!). I get called a "libtard" on a regular basis and get a lot of responses that are just "#MAGA!" and the like, but I also hear a lot of "who is Beto?"

Horn Dog

Horn Dog 10158

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, BrickHorn said:

The difference is Democrats are realistic that they need actual money to pay for the shit they want.  

Republicans want to spend, too.  They’ve just deluded themselves with fairy tales of trickle down economics and Laffer curves.  Or maybe they know that’s all bullshit but just don’t care if some poor fuckers in the future have to pay for their good time.  So, Republicans are either deluded supply side cultists or selfish, money-grabbing pieces of shit.  Either way, they suck.

Yup.  Repubs are like my ex-wife who likes to charge the fuck out the Amex but doesn’t want a job.  The Dems are like my current wife that likes to charge the fuck out the Amex but has a job that covers it.

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Larry T. Spider

Larry T. Spider 1747

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I know we are past the part of the thread where we talk about how we grew up Republican but I’m going to chime in (again).

As a child, I had one Democrat in the family  if you include extended family on both sides. Rush was always on the radio. Democrats hate America and Jesus and want to take all your money. Needless to say, I was a Republican through college. Voted in every major election but not straight ticket. I went through and voted against the democrats when there was no Republican opponent.

Then I graduated from college and started working as a teacher in 2007. I continued to listen to politicians and talk radio about how liberal teachers were indoctrinating the kids and never taught reading or math. It didn’t jive with what I saw on a daily basis. I saw teachers busting their asses and spending their own money on their kids/classrooms. I saw the “lazy liberal teachers just in it for the pension” adopting their students or raising money to help with medical bills. The parking lot always had cars in it on sundays with teachers working to get ready for the week. When I turned on talk radio in the car on the way home I started to get pissed about the lies.

Then came the funding cuts. My medium sized district depleted their savings and had to cut 27 million in one year. No stone was unturned with admin and teachers losing jobs. Many single teachers or two teacher families require second jobs. Hell, I still drive for Uber. Then Perry said to look at the superintendents and not him. I still voted republican because of other issues.

Then came dan Patrick. My wife and I became reliable democrats and disowned the Republican Party. He was the last straw. 

Then came trump. We became democrat donors as well as voters. Getting older and having more real world experience made me much more liberal.

tldr: fuck Texas Republicans, I ain’t goin back.

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RPM

RPM 26628

Posted
Posted (edited)

When I was a small boy my Granddad told me "Republicans are for the rich man, Democrats are for the little man." I haven't seen anything to change my mind about that in 50 years. Sure, both sides are lying crooks. But there seems to be a bit more gravy on the biscuit when Dems are running the show.

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Horn Dog

Horn Dog 10158

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Texas73 said:

If we bring freedom loving voters to the polls,Texas will stay bright red.

“If we bring more freedom loving voters to the polls, we can inact more restrictions on who one can legally love, restrict access to family planning, ban access to medical marijuana, demonize those who choose different religious beliefs, gerrymander and restrict voting rights of those we disagree with to the point that their votes are essential meaningless, support “state’s rights”, but only for those we agree with, demonize the free press and those that oppose our baseless conspiracy laced fear mongering, allow the president to mindlessly choose economic winners and losers based on their fidelity to him.”

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 106899

Posted
Posted
“If we bring more freedom loving voters to the polls, we can inact more restrictions on who one can legally love, restrict access to family planning, ban access to medical marijuana, demonize those who choose different religious beliefs, gerrymander and restrict voting rights of those we disagree with to the point that their votes are essential meaningless, support “state’s rights”, but only for those we agree with, demonize the free press and those that oppose our baseless conspiracy laced fear mongering, allow the president to mindlessly choose economic winners and losers based on their fidelity to him.”

So, yeah, freedom!

Or authoritarianism and a spoils system. You know, either way.
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Texas73

Texas73 422

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, RPM said:

When I was a small boy my Granddad told me "Republicans are for the rich man, Democrats are for the little man." I haven't seen anything to change my mind about that in 50 years. Sure, both sides are lying crooks. But there seems to be a bit more gravy on the biscuit when Dems are running the show.

My dad who was born in 1930 always said the same thing and if he were alive he was still be a yellow dog Democrat. I grew up in Van Zandt county and when I was young it was solid Democratic. Now it is all Republican. All I hear up there is Democrats want free things from the government and they kill babies. 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 19542

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, Texas73 said:

My dad who was born in 1930 always said the same thing and if he were alive he was still be a yellow dog Democrat. I grew up in Van Zandt county and when I was young it was solid Democratic. Now it is all Republican. All I hear up there is Democrats want free things from the government and they kill babies. 

I bet they say that while getting free things from the government.

Just a hunch.

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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11402

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, Texas73 said:

My dad who was born in 1930 always said the same thing and if he were alive he was still be a yellow dog Democrat. I grew up in Van Zandt county and when I was young it was solid Democratic. Now it is all Republican. All I hear up there is Democrats want free things from the government and they kill babies. 

 

22 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

I bet they say that while getting free things from the government.

Just a hunch.

my mom lives in VZ county. i hate visiting. i don't have the same experience as many of yall, with my mom watching foxnews all day, but she definitely supports trump. she's in poor health, on medicare, has some in-home care, but made a solid life for herself before retirement. growing up, she definitely leaned more left, and was the one teaching me tolerance while my father, god love him, was pretty racist, and not at all reserved about it. i knew every major racial slur by age 2. 

it is sort of similar where my mom grew up as well. coal mining country in the ohio river valley. lots of racists. yet, these people used to be union democrats. now they are solidly pro-trump. salt of the earth, old people, voting R because they are afraid of something, i think. 

and yet, so many of my family members get government benefits. they decry welfare, yet they wait for that check and buy lottery tickets. it's the strangest thing. i don't want my mom to die, nor do i want that for any other members of my family who have irrationally gone hard right. i don't mind it as a policy position - i probably agree with a lot of supposed conservative policies. but this is an emotional turn, not a rational one. we see it with certain posters on this board as well (ahem, slorch, onboard), where it manifests much more as an "against" policy than a "for" policy. 

i really hope beto can turn out more "for" voters than cruz can turn out "against." and having thought about it - that's beto's ultimate strategy here. he is making himself human to those emotional voters, who hated hillary because she's an evil bitch, etc. he's presenting himself and being nice and polite and texas, and he's not really trying to sway them over to his side, but he's dulling that rote emotional "against" vote. he's hoping maybe they stay home because they don't hate him. it's not a stupid strategy at all.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 19542

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

 

my mom lives in VZ county. i hate visiting. i don't have the same experience as many of yall, with my mom watching foxnews all day, but she definitely supports trump. she's in poor health, on medicare, has some in-home care, but made a solid life for herself before retirement. growing up, she definitely leaned more left, and was the one teaching me tolerance while my father, god love him, was pretty racist, and not at all reserved about it. i knew every major racial slur by age 2. 

it is sort of similar where my mom grew up as well. coal mining country in the ohio river valley. lots of racists. yet, these people used to be union democrats. now they are solidly pro-trump. salt of the earth, old people, voting R because they are afraid of something, i think. 

and yet, so many of my family members get government benefits. they decry welfare, yet they wait for that check and buy lottery tickets. it's the strangest thing. i don't want my mom to die, nor do i want that for any other members of my family who have irrationally gone hard right. i don't mind it as a policy position - i probably agree with a lot of supposed conservative policies. but this is an emotional turn, not a rational one. we see it with certain posters on this board as well (ahem, slorch, onboard), where it manifests much more as an "against" policy than a "for" policy. 

i really hope beto can turn out more "for" voters than cruz can turn out "against." and having thought about it - that's beto's ultimate strategy here. he is making himself human to those emotional voters, who hated hillary because she's an evil bitch, etc. he's presenting himself and being nice and polite and texas, and he's not really trying to sway them over to his side, but he's dulling that rote emotional "against" vote. he's hoping maybe they stay home because they don't hate him. it's not a stupid strategy at all.

I believe it can all be explained by race. White people are afraid this isn't going to be a white country anymore. And they are right. The change that is happening in this country terrifies a lot of white folks who grew up being fed the myths of America. They don't know this country's history. They don't know who actually built this country and who had to be removed to make it happen. Many of them do know and simply don't care. It's tragic.

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13731

Posted
Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

I believe it can all be explained by race. White people are afraid this isn't going to be a white country anymore. And they are right. The change that is happening in this country terrifies a lot of white folks who grew up being fed the myths of America. They don't know this country's history. They don't know who actually built this country and who had to be removed to make it happen. Many of them do know and simply don't care. It's tragic.

I know this getting off-topic, but found this article describing the problem of poor, white people feeling marginalized:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2018/07/30/feature/majority-minority-white-workers-at-this-pennsylvania-chicken-plant-now-struggle-to-fit-in/?utm_term=.2d782be9537e

I understand that they feel left behind, or that this isn't their country anymore.   And they're not wrong.  Their town isn't like it was in 1930, and they don't get as many benefits for just being white.  Those times are gone for a reason.

But what they do have is a vote and the desire to use it.  It helped Trump in 2016.

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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11402

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25 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I know this getting off-topic, but found this article describing the problem of poor, white people feeling marginalized:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2018/07/30/feature/majority-minority-white-workers-at-this-pennsylvania-chicken-plant-now-struggle-to-fit-in/?utm_term=.2d782be9537e

I understand that they feel left behind, or that this isn't their country anymore.   And they're not wrong.  Their town isn't like it was in 1930, and they don't get as many benefits for just being white.  Those times are gone for a reason.

But what they do have is a vote and the desire to use it.  It helped Trump in 2016.

my UK colleagues echo some of this. there are huge swaths of britain that are completely marginalized by poverty and lack of opportunity, and who just aren't ready for the new economy. the world has left a large % of the population behind, and they have all these polish, indian, and pakistani people moving in and taking away their england. there's a reason nigel farage and UKIP are a thing. there's a reason white nationalism is on the rise in our own country. 

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Texas73

Texas73 422

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

I believe it can all be explained by race. White people are afraid this isn't going to be a white country anymore. And they are right. The change that is happening in this country terrifies a lot of white folks who grew up being fed the myths of America. They don't know this country's history. They don't know who actually built this country and who had to be removed to make it happen. Many of them do know and simply don't care. It's tragic.

You got that right. Van Zandt is 93% white (7% hispanic), and only 3% black. My hometown has no blacks other than a few children without a father in the home. Some pickups display the Confederate flag and liberals are hated worse than the devil. 

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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11402

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, Texas73 said:

You got that right. Van Zandt is 93% white (7% hispanic), and only 3% black. My hometown has no blacks other than a few children without a father in the home. Some pickups display the Confederate flag and liberals are hated worse than the devil. 

and yet half the county deals or does meth

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13731

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

my UK colleagues echo some of this. there are huge swaths of britain that are completely marginalized by poverty and lack of opportunity, and who just aren't ready for the new economy. the world has left a large % of the population behind, and they have all these polish, indian, and pakistani people moving in and taking away their england. there's a reason nigel farage and UKIP are a thing. there's a reason white nationalism is on the rise in our own country. 

I don't understand Americans that don't want to prepare themselves for the current/future economy, don't want to leave their small corner of the world, but then complain when immigrants will take the shit job for low pay.    Maybe they just have zero idea on how to get that good job, or what first steps they should take.  It's sad when someone young appears to accept a life of no future.

 

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Gil Bang

Gil Bang 26240

Posted
Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I don't understand Americans that don't want to prepare themselves for the current/future economy, don't want to leave their small corner of the world, but then complain when immigrants will take the shit job for low pay.    Maybe they just have zero idea on how to get that good job, or what first steps they should take.  It's sad when someone young appears to accept a life of no future.

 

I've got family in a shitty little town in Oregon.  There's jack shit there.  My cousin's boys (both in their 20's) work shitty, JiffyLube type no-future jobs.  I've tried to tell them that they need to move away to a place with more opportunities.  It falls on deaf ears.  

Edited by Gil Bang
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RDCanecutter

RDCanecutter 26893

Posted
Posted
16 hours ago, Larry T. Spider said:

Then came dan Patrick.

Y'know, you don't have to call him Dan Patrick. That's just his made-up gamer name. His real name is Dan Goeb.

He's Dan Goeb from Maryland.

Dan Goeb from Maryland.

Dan Goeb from Maryland.

Say it three times, and be free.

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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11402

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

Y'know, you don't have to call him Dan Patrick. That's just his made-up gamer name. His real name is Dan Goeb.

He's Dan Goeb from Maryland.

Dan Goeb from Maryland.

Dan Goeb from Maryland.

Say it three times, and be free.

to which i feel compelled to respond abnout perhaps the best political ad ever crafted:

 

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 90650

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

I believe it can all be explained by race. White people are afraid this isn't going to be a white country anymore. And they are right. The change that is happening in this country terrifies a lot of white folks who grew up being fed the myths of America. They don't know this country's history. They don't know who actually built this country and who had to be removed to make it happen. Many of them do know and simply don't care. It's tragic.

Here in Texas, they have been watching the largest cities/suburbs starting to flip.   Hell, Fort Bend County, where I went to high school, was the home of Tom DeLay, and it went for Hillary.  

It scares the absolute shit out of them that white birthrights are "too low", that libtards from New England and California are moving to Texas.

It really scares them that whites are now less than 45% of Texas.

I really don't think that has sunk in with a lot of whites in Texas, and especially outside of Texas.

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13731

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

Here in Texas, they have been watching the largest cities/suburbs starting to flip.   Hell, Fort Bend County, where I went to high school, was the home of Tom DeLay, and it went for Hillary.  

It scares the absolute shit out of them that white birthrights are "too low", that libtards from New England and California are moving to Texas.

It really scares them that whites are now less than 45% of Texas.

I really don't think that has sunk in with a lot of whites in Texas, and especially outside of Texas.

Yep.  As white Texans get older and "minorities" get younger, it will only escalate the decline of percentage of white Texans.  Old people don't have kids.  It's that simple.

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bolverk

bolverk 30325

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Posted

Interesting discussion in here that reflects the last few comments in the Trump thread.

There's a theory being put forth right now (can't remember who) that the world is being split into two camps: those who are place-bound and those who could fit in anywhere. Sort of mobile versus immobile demographics. Of course, the person who came up with this has a more pithy way of putting it and labeling these groups. 

So, for example, with effort, almost any surly poster could move to any major global city and somehow get a job, make do, and even find a social network. On the other hand, we can point to our cousins, nephews, or whoever that are stuck in the towns that they are in with no viable options outside in the great wide world.

Of course, this latter group would include many Trumpkins and neatly describes their nativist fears and xenophobia.  

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13731

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Interesting discussion in here that reflects the last few comments in the Trump thread.

There's a theory being put forth right now (can't remember who) that the world is being split into two camps: those who are place-bound and those who could fit in anywhere. Sort of mobile versus immobile demographics. Of course, the person who came up with this has a more pithy way of putting it and labeling these groups. 

So, for example, with effort, almost any surly poster could move to any major global city and somehow get a job, make do, and even find a social network. On the other hand, we can point to our cousins, nephews, or whoever that are stuck in the towns that they are in with no viable options outside in the great wide world.

Of course, this latter group would include many Trumpkins and neatly describes their nativist fears and xenophobia.  

For those immobile demographics what is the underlying cause?  Are they lazy, don't care, scared or ignorant?    Personally I agree with Randolph Duke that it's all about environment.    Surround someone with a group of people that are stuck in dead-end towns with dead-end jobs, and it's not easy for someone to escape.     If their older brother went off to college and did well in their career, then it gives someone a model to follow.   Some obviously escape but they usually stay away.

If you tell a poor kid in Zavala County that they should go to college, get a finance degree and start working in a corporate finance dept, they would look at you like you were speaking a foreign language.   You would be better off telling them to become an astronaut and land on the moon. 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 106899

Posted
Posted
51 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Interesting discussion in here that reflects the last few comments in the Trump thread.

There's a theory being put forth right now (can't remember who) that the world is being split into two camps: those who are place-bound and those who could fit in anywhere. Sort of mobile versus immobile demographics. Of course, the person who came up with this has a more pithy way of putting it and labeling these groups. 

So, for example, with effort, almost any surly poster could move to any major global city and somehow get a job, make do, and even find a social network. On the other hand, we can point to our cousins, nephews, or whoever that are stuck in the towns that they are in with no viable options outside in the great wide world.

Of course, this latter group would include many Trumpkins and neatly describes their nativist fears and xenophobia.  

 

22 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

For those immobile demographics what is the underlying cause?  Are they lazy, don't care, scared or ignorant?    Personally I agree with Randolph Duke that it's all about environment.    Surround someone with a group of people that are stuck in dead-end towns with dead-end jobs, and it's not easy for someone to escape.     If their older brother went off to college and did well in their career, then it gives someone a model to follow.   Some obviously escape but they usually stay away.

If you tell a poor kid in Zavala County that they should go to college, get a finance degree and start working in a corporate finance dept, they would look at you like you were speaking a foreign language.   You would be better off telling them to become an astronaut and land on the moon. 

I don't think it's a phenomenon at all unique to the folks we're thinking of here -- largely rural white folk.

It's also true of urban populations, including minorities.  I've related this before, but I remember a police procedural show many years ago where the focus of the episode was LA area hispanic gangs, with precisely defined turf.  The detective explained that some of these kids lived within 20 blocks of the ocean, but had never actually seen it.  I'm sure it was hyperbole, but the point was that many people tend to stick with what they know.

If you grew up in the projects, and all you saw was folks living and dying in the projects, the suggestion that you go to school, apply yourself, go to college, and end up getting a good job with GE in New York....you'd look at that person like an alien.  You have no frame of reference to even conceive of that possibility, much less really understand what it takes to make it reality.

Same goes for someone living in a poor agrarian area in Latin America, etc.  Limited perspective and frame of reference, which either leads to or combines with limited imagination, and you have generation after generation stuck in a rut.

This phenomenon is why mentorship, and just showing kids an example of another way, can go really far.  My dad grew up in a poor border town.  He had ONE teacher who really believed in these kids, and that they could go to college.  On weekends, on his own time, he'd take the school's bus and drive the kids to Austin, or College Station, to tour the campus, meet other kids there, and see a football game.  To get them to open their eyes to "hey, I could go here."  He was (alas) a big aggie.  Because of him, dozens upon dozens of kids from a dinky border town went to A&M and got college degrees.  I go to some of my dad's reunion events, and there are all of these reasonably successful, college-educated hispanic kids from the border -- because of ONE teacher.  Perspective is that important.

The challenge in rural areas is that folks don't want their small town to die because everyone goes away.  But the only way to move up in the world is to GTFO.  Hard to reconcile that.

So, frustrated with the catch-22 of a shitty life, they lash out.  And note, this applies to all of the demographics. 

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