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ohchaucer

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 46534

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I wonder if it's possible to act as a distributor but also facilitate drop shipments direct from the overseas factory, instead of going through a shop?  (Both options, actually, but it always seemed to me that the cost of shipping a drum kit has to be pretty steep, even with volume discounts.  It's one or more big, heavy boxes.)

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jimmyjazz
jimmyjazz

New Gretsch Renown kit in action, Oakland CA.  Thanks, mates!  Sounds awesome.  Such a dorky 70s tilted-two-tom setup, but hey, I can't play drums.

ohchaucer
ohchaucer

Okay I’ll play. Austin era Fibes kit I just picked up. Original owner was Dan Tomlinson (Lyle Lovett). It was my unicorn set and sounds real pretty. And I also added a new Black Beauty snare. 

rungeflash
rungeflash

Some have arrived. My initial thoughts are: Fuckn A Just some teasers…..I’ll get more pics later on when it’s all here….show you the full setup and all the cymbals I’m surrounding this kit with

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Buzzrock

Buzzrock 15033

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Posted

Alright I finally measured and I have a 13” snare, 12” Tom, 15” Tom, and 20” bass. Can someone link to exactly what I should get off Amazon to replace the heads? Along with a drum key? Value is more important to me than quality.

Also I think I need to put a pillow in the bass. It’s really boomy.

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Handcruser

Handcruser 2805

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https://www.amazon.com/Remo-Emperor-Coated-Drum-Head/dp/B0002E38X0/ref=mp_s_a_1_7?keywords=remo+emperor+coated&qid=1584832396&sprefix=remo+emperor&sr=8-7

 

https://www.amazon.com/Evans-EMAD2-Clear-Bass-Drum/dp/B000K66A6C/ref=mp_s_a_1_1_sspa?keywords=evans+emad+20&qid=1584832507&sprefix=evans+emad&sr=8-1-spons&swrs=848F2B9B155240374DDE212DCD295CB6&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExRkRXM1JWSktTVjREJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUExMDA2NDIxMTVCSUgwWlg3VTRXViZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMDM3NDE3MVpJWkhIT1BQU080NyZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX3Bob25lX3NlYXJjaF9hdGYmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl

 

1st link I deleted.

2nd link is 12/13/15/16

3rd link is bass drum

 

If you want Evans heads let me know. I like coated heads instead of clear....they’re warmer and have a better tone in my opinion.

 

If you put a clear batter head on a snare drum I’ll strangle you.

 

 

 

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Handcruser

Handcruser 2805

Posted
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Alright I finally measured and I have a 13” snare, 12” Tom, 15” Tom, and 20” bass. Can someone link to exactly what I should get off Amazon to replace the heads? Along with a drum key? Value is more important to me than quality.

Also I think I need to put a pillow in the bass. It’s really boomy.

Tighten up the reso head. Start there. Send us some pics of your shit and we’ll help more. I fact send a pic of the measurement of that floor Tom that’s 15”.


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topochico

topochico 1049

Posted
Posted (edited)

 Lone Star Percussion is having a 50% off sale on demos and clearance items with code "discountsquared"

Sale ends at 5pm CST

http://www.lonestarpercussion.com/#/~search/page/1/view/listView/allAttributes/Ways-to-Save:Clearance;Ways-to-Save:Used;Ways-to-Save:Demo

A Gretsch 4 Piece Shell Pack MSRP $5389, normal price $4342. With the discount it is:  $2479.85 tax and shipping included

cymbals, shell packs, accessories etc

Edited by topochico
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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 46534

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26 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

Ordered from Guitar Center for a few extra bucks but should be here in a few days.

Forgot to ask: what’s the most common brand and size/weight of sticks? I’m sure that’s a very personal preference but I have to start somewhere.

I'm not a drummer, but I'd try some maple & hickory 5A sticks, with and without nylon tips.  See what feels best.  I don't honestly know if any particular brand of the common ones (Vic Firth, ProMark, Zildjian, etc.) is actually better.  I doubt you'd notice, go for the best bargain for now.

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Handcruser

Handcruser 2805

Posted
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Ordered from Guitar Center for a few extra bucks but should be here in a few days.

Forgot to ask: what’s the most common brand and size/weight of sticks? I’m sure that’s a very personal preference but I have to start somewhere.


7a are a good size.
I prefer nylon tips.
I prefer round tips
Omar hakim sticks are what I buy
Vic firth or promark are safe bets.


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Buzzrock

Buzzrock 15033

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Holy crap. Changing out that bass head and chucking an old pillow in there made a HUGE difference. I knew it would help some but it went from a really unpleasant “bonnnnnng” to a very pleasing thump.

Need to get some decent cymbals now.

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Handcruser

Handcruser 2805

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Holy crap. Changing out that bass head and chucking an old pillow in there made a HUGE difference. I knew it would help some but it went from a really unpleasant “bonnnnnng” to a very pleasing thump.

Need to get some decent cymbals now.

What bass drum head did you get?


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AnotherUTFan

AnotherUTFan 9845

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Today I stepped into the drum world.

Gretsch Catalina Birch with Ziljian I cymbals, Gretsch G3 hardware.

Our drummer's set was here just long enough for me to get an appetite for it. Once we can gather again, they will save me a ton in studio space rental since we'll be able to rehearse here and they'll be fun for impromptu jam sessions.

I figured out how to play and maintain some decent, basic grooves on my own so far, but what's the recommended YouTube course to get down the basics and head down this road? Hell, I needed YouTube just to figure out how they all go together. Next step is tuning. f3d892f1f152692aabec020964f568e2.jpg

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 46534

Posted
Posted (edited)

I'm not a drummer, but I've recorded a shit ton of drummers . . . seems like coated Remo Ambassadors are kind of the gold standard.  They're a single-ply 10 mil design.  There's an Ambassador X, which is also single-ply but 12 mil thick.  I have no direct knowledge, but maybe they'd take a bit more of a beating ("student" drummer).  They also have Ambassador X14, which is even thicker at 14 mil.

Or, you can get into 2-ply heads (Remo Powerstroke Dots, Evans G2, etc.), but I wouldn't put those on a snare drum.  Mainly toms.  I've seen a ton of Evans G2 on toms with rock players.

Edited by jimmyjazz
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Handcruser

Handcruser 2805

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I'm not a drummer, but I've recorded a shit ton of drummers . . . seems like coated Remo Ambassadors are kind of the gold standard.  They're a single-ply 10 mil design.  There's an Ambassador X, which is also single-ply but 12 mil thick.  I have no direct knowledge, but maybe they'd take a bit more of a beating ("student" drummer).  They also have Ambassador X14, which is even thicker at 14 mil.
Or, you can get into 2-ply heads (Remo Powerstroke Dots, Evans G2, etc.), but I wouldn't put those on a snare drum.  Mainly toms.  I've seen a ton of Evans G2 on toms with rock players.

Remo emperors are more widely used on Toms
Emperor or ambassador on snare
Always coated heads
Aquarian super kick 2 or evans emad2 for bass drum



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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 46534

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1 hour ago, AnotherUTFan said:

jj, what are your recommendations on micing drums? I kinda have a home studio coming together. I plan to mic the kick and snare and use a pair of overhead condensers for everything else. I'm not looking to do anything beyond demo worthy here. Thoughts?

Well, for a variety of reasons, I tend to go very basic.  Stereo XY pair for the overheads, usually decent small diaphragm condensers (Microtech Gefell M300 or Neumann KM84/KM184), capsule-to-capsule at 90 degrees, leading to zero phase issues.  A single mic on/in the kick drum, usually a dynamic like an EV RE20 or a Shure SM57 (yep).  I rarely mic the snare or toms.

This gets me a very natural room sound with enough punch in the kick drum to cut the mix.  However, I have very little control over the snare/tom/cymbal balance this way, so it needs to be mic'ed right the first time.  I can only do so much with EQ.

@Paul Wesley should chime in.  He graciously allowed me to bring my daughter to a pre-pandemic session at his lovely studio, and I thought his drum sounds were spectacular.  As I recall, he had mics on each drum, with spaced condenser (ribbon? can't remember) overheads.  Great kit -- I think it might have been an old Ludwig? -- and terrific gear producing a punchy, natural, modern close-mic'ed sound.  He's your reference.

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phdhorn

phdhorn 6224

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Posted
2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I'm not a drummer, but I've recorded a shit ton of drummers . . . seems like coated Remo Ambassadors are kind of the gold standard.  They're a single-ply 10 mil design.  There's an Ambassador X, which is also single-ply but 12 mil thick.  I have no direct knowledge, but maybe they'd take a bit more of a beating ("student" drummer).  They also have Ambassador X14, which is even thicker at 14 mil.

Or, you can get into 2-ply heads (Remo Powerstroke Dots, Evans G2, etc.), but I wouldn't put those on a snare drum.  Mainly toms.  I've seen a ton of Evans G2 on toms with rock players.

 

7 minutes ago, Handcruser said:


Remo emperors are more widely used on Toms
Emperor or ambassador on snare
Always coated heads
Aquarian super kick 2 or evans emad2 for bass drum



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6 minutes ago, Handcruser said:


Shit I responded to JJ instead of you. See above.

Emperors ftw!

Thanks fellas. I'll grab a pack of Emperors.

UT Fan, I do a little studio micing myself and your setup sounds good. 

The first rule of recording to me is less is more. Start with your setup and if you don't like any of the sounds, you can tweak it. You might put a unidirectional like a 57 between the two toms if they're bass-mounted. Miking the individual times underneath will give it much more punch of course. You might also back off on the snare if it's too loud but that sounds like a good start; seems like most guys like mics above the snare instead of under it.

I'd go with two or three mics at first, then add is necessary. Don't start with a bunch and take away. Less is more.

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Handcruser

Handcruser 2805

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You good with Emperor on snare?  They always sound choked to me.  I think Emperor everywhere else but Ambassador on snare is far more common in my studio experience.

Ambassador or diplomat on snare. I kind of overlooked that part lol.

But if he is replacing original heads on a beginner drum set ANY coated remos will sound better.

Emperors on toms
Ambassador on snare
Super kick 2 or emad 2 on bass




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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 46534

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Handcruser said:

Do you still have those drums I sold you? Some Gretsch I think.

Nope.  Those were really nice Gretsch Renowns -- your Dad's, I believe.  Once my daughter started playing seriously it was clear they were just a little too big.  I built a  4-piece kit out of some Keller shells, smaller sized (20" kick, 14" floor tom, etc.).

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Paul Wesley

Paul Wesley 3303

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Well, for a variety of reasons, I tend to go very basic.  Stereo XY pair for the overheads, usually decent small diaphragm condensers (Microtech Gefell M300 or Neumann KM84/KM184), capsule-to-capsule at 90 degrees, leading to zero phase issues.  A single mic on/in the kick drum, usually a dynamic like an EV RE20 or a Shure SM57 (yep).  I rarely mic the snare or toms.

This gets me a very natural room sound with enough punch in the kick drum to cut the mix.  However, I have very little control over the snare/tom/cymbal balance this way, so it needs to be mic'ed right the first time.  I can only do so much with EQ.

@Paul Wesley should chime in.  He graciously allowed me to bring my daughter to a pre-pandemic session at his lovely studio, and I thought his drum sounds were spectacular.  As I recall, he had mics on each drum, with spaced condenser (ribbon? can't remember) overheads.  Great kit -- I think it might have been an old Ludwig? -- and terrific gear producing a punchy, natural, modern close-mic'ed sound.  He's your reference.

jimmyjazz is giving me too much credit.  That session was engineered by my frequent partner ( www.charliekramsky.com ) and not by me.  FWIW, the mics on that session were likely:  Beta52 and fet47 on kick, 57's on snare, 421 on each tom, probably a miktek C5 on hat, Coles 4038 on overheads, Dragonfly deluxe stereo pair on rooms. 

3 hours ago, AnotherUTFan said:

jj, what are your recommendations on micing drums? I kinda have a home studio coming together. I plan to mic the kick and snare and use a pair of overhead condensers for everything else. I'm not looking to do anything beyond demo worthy here. Thoughts?

AUTF, the advice from the other guys above is as good as anything I could offer.  It's good to hear that you have reasonable expectations ("demo worthy"), because I've also tried to record drums at my house, and the results were pretty meh, even with what I thought at the time was a decent-sized living area.  There are just way too many things to overcome --  no proper listening environment, no isolation from control to live room, inexperienced engineers (me), and a boxy-sounding live rooms with poor acoustic properties.

So my microphone advice in general:

- Don't spend too much on mics, especially right out of the gate.   Something on the kick, a stereo pair of overheads, maybe a top snare.  20 hours of experimentation moving the mics and kit around will take you a lot further down the sonic road than will writing a giant check to Sweetwater.

- In general, everyone who starts recording at home runs out and buys a mid-level large diaphragm condenser.  Most of those sound awful.  It *seems* like you're using what the pros use, but in reality they're a very poor value for the money, and they're really good at getting more of your bad-sounding rooms to tape ("tape" includes whatever software you've chosen).  I was guilty of this as well.  I bought and sold a LOT of large diaphragm condenser mics in the $500-$1500 range.... AKG, Neumann, etc.  A lot of bad decisions.  I should have listened to the engineers who were giving me the exact advice that I'm giving now.

- High quality dynamics are a much better value ESPECIALLY if your room doesn't sound very good.  There's no shame in a Shure 57 (buy only from reputable dealer... fakes are everywhere).  An RE20 will serve you well for the next 30 years, and they're fucking fantastic vocal mics.  There's a reason you see them all the time in front of radio DJ's and podcasters who have any reasonably-sized budget.  There are a lot of other dynamics that you could deploy both on drums and in front of your guitar cabinets.

- Along those same lines, a pair of ribbons could serve you both as overheads and on guitars.

- Very rarely is a specific microphone the secret sauce in a signal path.  There are few exceptions to that statement, IMO.

- Have fun.  Try not to let the technical bullshit distract you too much.

Edited by Paul Wesley
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AnotherUTFan

AnotherUTFan 9845

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Well, for a variety of reasons, I tend to go very basic.  Stereo XY pair for the overheads, usually decent small diaphragm condensers (Microtech Gefell M300 or Neumann KM84/KM184), capsule-to-capsule at 90 degrees, leading to zero phase issues.  A single mic on/in the kick drum, usually a dynamic like an EV RE20 or a Shure SM57 (yep).  I rarely mic the snare or toms.

This gets me a very natural room sound with enough punch in the kick drum to cut the mix.  However, I have very little control over the snare/tom/cymbal balance this way, so it needs to be mic'ed right the first time.  I can only do so much with EQ.

@Paul Wesley should chime in.  He graciously allowed me to bring my daughter to a pre-pandemic session at his lovely studio, and I thought his drum sounds were spectacular.  As I recall, he had mics on each drum, with spaced condenser (ribbon? can't remember) overheads.  Great kit -- I think it might have been an old Ludwig? -- and terrific gear producing a punchy, natural, modern close-mic'ed sound.  He's your reference.

 

3 hours ago, phdhorn said:

 

 

Thanks fellas. I'll grab a pack of Emperors.

UT Fan, I do a little studio micing myself and your setup sounds good. 

The first rule of recording to me is less is more. Start with your setup and if you don't like any of the sounds, you can tweak it. You might put a unidirectional like a 57 between the two toms if they're bass-mounted. Miking the individual times underneath will give it much more punch of course. You might also back off on the snare if it's too loud but that sounds like a good start; seems like most guys like mics above the snare instead of under it.

I'd go with two or three mics at first, then add is necessary. Don't start with a bunch and take away. Less is more.

 

1 hour ago, Paul Wesley said:

jimmyjazz is giving me too much credit.  That session was engineered by my frequent partner ( www.charliekramsky.com ) and not by me.  FWIW, the mics on that session were likely:  Beta52 and fet47 on kick, 57's on snare, 421 on each tom, probably a miktek C5 on hat, Coles 4038 on overheads, Dragonfly deluxe stereo pair on rooms. 

AUTF, the advice from the other guys above is as good as anything I could offer.  It's good to hear that you have reasonable expectations ("demo worthy"), because I've also tried to record drums at my house, and the results were pretty meh, even with what I thought at the time was a decent-sized living area.  There are just way too many things to overcome --  no proper listening environment, no isolation from control to live room, inexperienced engineers (me), and a boxy-sounding live rooms with poor acoustic properties.

So my microphone advice in general:

- Don't spend too much on mics, especially right out of the gate.   Something on the kick, a stereo pair of overheads, maybe a top snare.  20 hours of experimentation moving the mics and kit around will take you a lot further down the sonic road than will writing a giant check to Sweetwater.

- In general, everyone who starts recording at home runs out and buys a mid-level large diaphragm condenser.  Most of those sound awful.  It *seems* like you're using what the pros use, but in reality they're a very poor value for the money, and they're really good at getting more of your bad-sounding rooms to tape ("tape" includes whatever software you've chosen).  I was guilty of this as well.  I bought and sold a LOT of large diaphragm condenser mics in the $500-$1500 range.... AKG, Neumann, etc.  A lot of bad decisions.  I should have listened to the engineers who were giving me the exact advice that I'm giving now.

- High quality dynamics are a much better value ESPECIALLY if your room doesn't sound very good.  There's no shame in a Shure 57 (buy only from reputable dealer... fakes are everywhere).  An RE20 will serve you well for the next 30 years, and they're fucking fantastic vocal mics.  There's a reason you see them all the time in front of radio DJ's and podcasters who have any reasonably-sized budget.  There are a lot of other dynamics that you could deploy both on drums and in front of your guitar cabinets.

- Along those same lines, a pair of ribbons could serve you both as overheads and on guitars.

- Very rarely is a specific microphone the secret sauce in a signal path.  There are few exceptions to that statement, IMO.

- Have fun.  Try not to let the technical bullshit distract you too much.

Thanks for all of this. Im going to respond over in the Home Recording Studio thread i just found so this one can remain about drums. 

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phdhorn

phdhorn 6224

Posted
Posted
18 hours ago, Handcruser said:


What drums do you have? What’s the shell material?


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Just to answer your question, they're Ludwig Accents - I think it's some sort of poplar 5-ply or whatnot.  Got it for Jr. when he was 10 (he turned out to be pretty dam good drummer, but rarely plays now, though he's expressed desire to play again).  It's just their intro set but IMU(neducated)O really not bad, especially the pedal.  I can see that with some good heads on it it could be a half-decent studio utility set.  Anyway I'm definitely gonna get the new heads and see what comes out.

If nothing else, it's pretty!  (lol!). 

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