Captain Marvel (aka, the appetizer before Infinity War 2)

[Zepol87 9308]

So what exactly should I rewatch before seeing this?

[ajax 2671]

8 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

This thing is gonna get to 300-400 million globally pretty easily. 

300 to 400 million would be considered a massive failure. It'll make more than that. I think 600 million is the absolute minimum it's going to make. 

[mdmost 43850]

Nothing. It's stand alone and set before all the Marvel movies.

 

Was it the smiling comment? That she was a little miffed that people kept saying she should smile more with some photoshopping smiles on her Captain Marvel posters and photos? She had a funny response which was photoshopping smiles onto some the males like Iron Man, Dr Strange and Captain America in their Marvel movie posters. 

 

[hayden_horn 11401]

Quote

Those who track outrageous trollish behavior online will recall the inane kerfuffle that arose following the release of the initial trailer for Captain Marvel, the Marvel Cinematic Universe’s first female-fronted superhero movie, starring Brie Larson as the eponymous badass. A certain faction on social media criticized Larson’s Carol Danvers as appearing too “stiff and wooden,” with one person even Photoshopping smiles onto her face and claiming he “fixed” her. (Not entirely surprising, that Twitter account has since been suspended, we’re guessing for something more egregious but probably not any less small-minded.)

Turns out the film, which was already in the can at that point, had predicted that very reaction. In a brief scene — minor spoiler alert — Danvers encounters a random man on a motorcycle who contemptuously tells her to smile.

“That’s just a depiction of the female experience,” Larson told Yahoo Entertainment at a recent press event for the film held at Edwards Air Force Base (watch above). “That’s just what it’s like. So it didn’t really bother me that much when I saw that that was the reaction because that’s just how it goes.”

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/brie-larson-captain-marvel-smiling-controversy-movie-actually-predicted-160048858.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAJU-L6y8pgWjuLLG6OVymDFw-D0QoHREekVUEqEbngVGPycqyZzzUAtF2qHgV4zez3PsrZl8Km2kXt9JZRfAjI5CfDoZQQAVPA3Z0qTHwXsDnIUzNsAUTMdvaJtYNslkUG2iEblHXh72YFy0VZwDskmEzvej-0427UbBcdGDm1Wu

i cannot roll my eyes hard enough.  it is an amazing piece of double-standard. the inherent misogyny causing a controversy? there's no controversy? she's done or said nothing wrong. 

[Patrick Bateman 3966]

1 hour ago, ajax said:

300 to 400 million would be considered a massive failure. It'll make more than that. I think 600 million is the absolute minimum it's going to make. 

Hence it'll get there pretty easily..... 500-600 million is probably what Marvel demands though, that's Ant-man stuff.

[Patrick Bateman 3966]

1 hour ago, Zepol87 said:

So what exactly should I rewatch before seeing this?

The first Guardians may help as Ronan and Korath are back around..... but this will be a heavy Nic Fury film to integrate her into the fabric of the Avengers.  Otherwise, not much to tie in.

[Js1 86941]

1 hour ago, Zepol87 said:

So what exactly should I rewatch before seeing this?

All of them, because if you don't do it now, you'll just do it a month and a half later for IW2.  Might as well do the rewatch now + Captain Marvel leading up to IW2.

[Dutchrudder 11228]

Oh wow, I had no idea Brie was the hot nerdy girl that Abed dated for a few episodes in Season 4 of Community. Funny thing, the first episode she appeared in was titled "HERSTORY OF DANCE" lol...

Edited March 4, 2019 by Dutchrudder

[Dutchrudder 11228]

57 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/brie-larson-captain-marvel-smiling-controversy-movie-actually-predicted-160048858.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAJU-L6y8pgWjuLLG6OVymDFw-D0QoHREekVUEqEbngVGPycqyZzzUAtF2qHgV4zez3PsrZl8Km2kXt9JZRfAjI5CfDoZQQAVPA3Z0qTHwXsDnIUzNsAUTMdvaJtYNslkUG2iEblHXh72YFy0VZwDskmEzvej-0427UbBcdGDm1Wu

i cannot roll my eyes hard enough.  it is an amazing piece of double-standard. the inherent misogyny causing a controversy? there's no controversy? she's done or said nothing wrong. 

I have had a hard time finding the actual quotes in full context, but here's a decent summary of what she said at the awards show.  

Quote

On Monday, the USC Annenberg Inclusion Initiative — led by Dr. Stacy L. Smith, honored earlier at the ceremony by Frances McDormand — released a report that examined nearly 20,000 reviews of last year’s 100 top-grossing movies. The report found that 63.9 percent of those reviews were written by white men, versus white women (18.1 percent), underrepresented men (13.8 percent), and underrepresented women (4.1 percent).

“Am I saying I hate white dudes?” asked the Oscar-winning “Room” actress, a question that she’d repeat twice more during her speech. She answered with a sneer, “No, I’m not … [but if] you make the movie that is a love letter to women of color, there is an insanely low chance a woman of color will have a chance to see your movie and review your movie.”

Larson continued, “[Audiences] are not allowed enough chances to read public discourse on these films by the people that the films were made for. I do not need a 40-year-old white dude to tell me what didn’t work for him about ‘[A] Wrinkle in Time.’ It wasn’t made for him. I want to know what it meant to women of color, to biracial women, to teen women of color, to teens that are biracial.”

The Annenberg report noted that the national demographic breakdown for the aforementioned groups is 30/30/20/20. Larson advocated for more diversity among reporters and photographers assigned to red carpets and junkets, and a forthcoming, unnamed tool that will help studios find critics from minority groups.

 

https://www.indiewire.com/2018/06/brie-larsons-i-do-not-hate-white-dudes-lack-of-inclusion-film-critics-1201974617/

It seems she's talking about wanting a more diverse group of people in the film critic industry, but she's doing it in the wrong way. The bolded is the part everyone is taking to the internet and running with, but there's more context to it. The problem is the underlying assumption that people who aren't the target audience of a film are somehow incapable of understanding it's meaning, purpose or quality, which is just false. Critics should be objective in their reviews, though that's not always the case, but that shouldn't surprise anyone if they aren't. Dismissing reviews based on someone's sex or race is just as bigoted as negatively rating a movie because it features female leads or storylines, which is something generally lost on those pushing this type of identity politics argument. 

[elfenix 34658]

On 3/2/2019 at 1:48 PM, atomheartbevo said:

1234.

100 people saw a review screening.  500 people rated it.  Hmm....

This morning, I was looking at screen protectors for an iPad. Somebody asked how one brand worked with an Apple Pencil.  7 people chimed in that they didn’t own a pencil, but were sure it would be okay, because it worked fine with their fingers.   

Give me the days when people relied on Siskel and Ebert or Consumer Reviews.   

this type of shit on amazon gets me really surly.  someone has a question, amazon spams out an email to people who've bought it, and people who can't answer the question for some reason feel obligated to reply. 

[Drew 2833]

On ‎2‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 4:29 PM, NOMAAA said:

apart from thor 1 and 2 has marvel let you down yet?  they are all good if not at least entertaining.  this will be another good/great movie.

I didn't think Thor 1 was a let down.  Not the best of the Marvel movies of course, but Thor 2 and IM3 were worse IMO.

On ‎2‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 5:18 PM, mdmost said:

Iron Man 3 was also pretty disappointing. The snippets I've read said it plays like a 90s action movie and is atypical of most Marvel movies. I mean if it's goofy fun like The Rock, Speed or Bad Boys then what's not to like. We're about to get our guts ripped out by Thanos in April anyway. Let's have a little fun first.

Pretty much all this.

19 hours ago, ajax said:

I saw that rumor too, but it's just one guy on reddit. It's not very believable.

The only part that was credible was that the Russos didn't want Captain Marvel to be the lone savior stepping at the end of this long story arc as a kind of deus ex brielarson.

The truth is that Larson has a 5 picture deal and she's the face of Marvel for the foreseeable future. They've stated that she's the leader of the Avengers. They're all in on her.

Yeah that sounds about right. The Same people calling Rey a Mary Sue in Star Wars will do it here.  Or they will if they're not hypocrites.  And they need it to work because they've doubled down on her.

19 hours ago, ajax said:

That's partially true. But I think those same neckbeards would have cheered a movie about Storm, a black woman, because Storm is a genuinely beloved character with a lot of history.

The truth is that no one cares about Captain Marvel. She's a boring character. The most interesting thing about her is that Rogue stole her powers, put her in a coma and threw her off a bridge. Captain Marvel's comics have never sold well. There's no lore or history about her.

Marvel really does have a female problem. They don't have an equivalent to Wonder Woman. The most logical choice for a movie was Black Widow, but Scarlett Johansson makes too much money

Absolutely right.  They just don't have a long term heavily successful female character that's not part of a team like X-Men or Avengers.

16 hours ago, Michael Knight said:

The past 20 movies have all been Marvel's "boring" characters, they built this juggernaut with essentially their B team. Who the fuck cared about the Guardians of the Galaxy or Iron Man before the movies? With their record I don't know how you can't give Feige and company the benefit of the doubt right now. Everyone was doubting Black Panther last year and it actually out earned Infinity War

I'm still amazed that Marvel/Disney has done what they have without X-Men, Fantastic 4, and ESPECIALLY Spider Man(their one true counter point to Superman/Batman) and that's not even including their Villains that Marvel couldn't even touch.

3 hours ago, Dutchrudder said:

I have had a hard time finding the actual quotes in full context, but here's a decent summary of what she said at the awards show.  

https://www.indiewire.com/2018/06/brie-larsons-i-do-not-hate-white-dudes-lack-of-inclusion-film-critics-1201974617/

It seems she's talking about wanting a more diverse group of people in the film critic industry, but she's doing it in the wrong way. The bolded is the part everyone is taking to the internet and running with, but there's more context to it. The problem is the underlying assumption that people who aren't the target audience of a film are somehow incapable of understanding it's meaning, purpose or quality, which is just false. Critics should be objective in their reviews, though that's not always the case, but that shouldn't surprise anyone if they aren't. Dismissing reviews based on someone's sex or race is just as bigoted as negatively rating a movie because it features female leads or storylines, which is something generally lost on those pushing this type of identity politics argument. 

Yeah she made a misstep with the comment but it was taken out of context.  She never should have went as far as said "I don't care what 40 year old white guys think" and left it with saying they needed more diversity in the Critic Community.  Like you said, pretending that white males can't appreciate, or aren't allow to like, or hate, a movie just because it wasn't made for them, is completely wrong.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

5 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/brie-larson-captain-marvel-smiling-controversy-movie-actually-predicted-160048858.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAJU-L6y8pgWjuLLG6OVymDFw-D0QoHREekVUEqEbngVGPycqyZzzUAtF2qHgV4zez3PsrZl8Km2kXt9JZRfAjI5CfDoZQQAVPA3Z0qTHwXsDnIUzNsAUTMdvaJtYNslkUG2iEblHXh72YFy0VZwDskmEzvej-0427UbBcdGDm1Wu

i cannot roll my eyes hard enough.  it is an amazing piece of double-standard.

people want and expect different things from men and women? what the FUCK??!?

[BERT 4488]

20 hours ago, ajax said:

That's partially true. But I think those same neckbeards would have cheered a movie about Storm, a black woman, because Storm is a genuinely beloved character with a lot of history.

The truth is that no one cares about Captain Marvel. She's a boring character. The most interesting thing about her is that Rogue stole her powers, put her in a coma and threw her off a bridge. Captain Marvel's comics have never sold well. There's no lore or history about her.

Marvel really does have a female problem. They don't have an equivalent to Wonder Woman. The most logical choice for a movie was Black Widow, but Scarlett Johansson makes too much money

This is something i want to see. Sounds awesome. It's gonna be nice to see X-Men and F4 characters start appearing in the Marvel Universe. Can't happen soon enough.

[Buzzrock 15115]

I don't care what an actor (or musician or artist) says off set/stage, and I don't know/care what BL said. I also don't think anyone really cares about a woman leading a superhero movie (Wonder Woman should have put that to rest), I just care if it's good or not. I didn't care about all the identity stuff around Black Panther either, I just thought it was kind boring and Boseman had no charisma compared to most other MCU characters black/white/male/female/raccoon/plant or other.

I hope it's good. I'm worried it won't be because the trailer looks like Green Lantern. I've been wrong before though, I thought Dr. Strange might suck but it turned out to be awesome.

[RPM 26560]

26 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

I hope it's good. I'm worried it won't be because the trailer looks like Green Lantern.

[atomheartbevo 90547]

On 3/3/2019 at 8:54 PM, ajax said:

That's partially true. But I think those same neckbeards would have cheered a movie about Storm, a black woman, because Storm is a genuinely beloved character with a lot of history.

This highlights a related issue - just as we’ve seen plenty of DC fanboys shitting on the MCU from the beginning, there is a pretty bitter contingent of Marvel fans who are pissed that the X-Men series never hit the heights and prestige the MCU did.   They are especially bitter, because X-Men had some outstanding casting choices, and had some amazing storylines to draw from.  

I think some of the hate is also from bloggers who are after clickbait and who have started predicting that every movie will be a failure, just on the off-chance a Marvel movie truly stumbles, so they can be the first to claim they were right all along.  

As lackluster as some of the trailers are, Captain Marvel still hasn’t had a Doomsday moment like Batman vs Superman.  

[ajax 2671]

It's still Marvel. They're extremely competent. No way they would make a movie as bad a BvS, Justice League, or Suicide Squad. It does look like DC has started to right the ship a little bit.

The first reviews for Captain Marvel are in and they range from tepidly positive to slightly negative. Just like I predicted they say it's uninspiring, that Captain Marvel is boring, but that Ben Mendelsohn is terrific.

They also say not to expect any plot surprises linked to the rest of the universe.

[Js1 86941]

Oh no way, it's an origin story first of all and no way they spoil ANYTHING for IW2.   

I wonder if they will even reference IW2 in the post-credits stuff. 

[ajax 2671]

22 minutes ago, Js1 said:

I wonder if they will even reference IW2 in the post-credits stuff. 

If you wanna be spoiled...

Yes they do. It's a continuation of the pager scene. It's going off, Fury is dust, and Captain Marvel shows up going "where's Fury?"

[BERT 4488]

32 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Oh no way, it's an origin story first of all and no way they spoil ANYTHING for IW2.   

I wonder if they will even reference IW2 in the post-credits stuff. 

It's the main reason people will sit through the move, just to see the post credit scene. Just like i did with Ant Man and The Wasp. 

[Js1 86941]

10 minutes ago, ajax said:

If you wanna be spoiled...

 

  Hide contents

Yes they do. It's a continuation of the pager scene. It's going off, Fury is dust, and Captain Marvel shows up going "where's Fury?"

 

Okay, so nothing unexpected.

[Drew 2833]

Pretty much what I expected.

[Buzzrock 15115]

This is where the SJW stuff gets a little eye-rolly for me:

“She’s a superhero by being born a woman,” (referring to another female character in the film.

Yeah ok. All women are superheroes.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/entertainthis/2019/03/05/brie-larson-captain-marvel-premiere-im-crying-lot-today/3063511002/

[Pato del Muerto 53332]

I identify as a superhero. 

[henrygandorf 29219]

89% on rt right now.

lower than i actually expected.

[ajax 2671]

lol, just saw another spoiler. Guess who Annette Benning is playing? Seriously don't reveal if you don't want to be spoiled.

She's Mar Vell

 

[Michael Knight 13187]

Early reviews put it solidly in the Ant Man category, good but not groundbreaking

[hayden_horn 11401]

well, i loved ant man, so, that is a good thing in my book. 

[Drew 2833]

1 hour ago, ajax said:

lol, just saw another spoiler. Guess who Annette Benning is playing? Seriously don't reveal if you don't want to be spoiled.

 

  Hide contents

She's Mar Vell

 

 

The fuck? 

I mean it's okay to change characters here and there...but you don't make Black Widow a man and get away with it either.

[Drew 2833]

19 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

Early reviews put it solidly in the Ant Man category, good but not groundbreaking

Which is pretty much where I expected.  I thought at best it'd be between a Thor and Ant Man...and at worst IM3 and Thor 2.

[Js1 86941]

26 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

well, i loved ant man, so, that is a good thing in my book. 

Ditto.

[mdmost 43850]

I think people going in expecting it to be Iron Man are going to be disappointed. I'm more hoping it's in the mold of the first Captain America movie. More of a genre or period piece that's disconnected from the larger Marvel world but will be connected with Endgame. If it's like Ant Man, that's not bad. A fun action film sandwiched in between two gut punches is okay.

[atomheartbevo 90547]

Spoiler on end credit

Spoiler

 

 

[Drew 2833]

I like Graces breakdowns and spoilers but god damn she’s a mixed bag. Not only does she ramble on for 5 extra minutes before finally getting to the end credits scene, she takes forever explaining a 10 second scene before actually saying what happened.

That and SJW leanings on a lot of her videos make it a real hit and miss when watching her.

[Sandman 3427]

I thought Black Panther was meh. I didn't notice any SJW stuff, it was just: Hero is there, Hero has a setback, Hero saves everyone. I wanted something more. 

I never cared for Captain Marvel when I was reading comics, I remember when he died and that's about it. The character does nothing for me, man or woman. Brie Larson has all the personality of a piece of driftwood, so I have zero interest in this one, regardless of her "girl power" talk. It really does seem like Green Lantern redux. 

 

[ajax 2671]

Here's Stuckman's review. He gives it a C.

Says there are moments of excitement but for the most part it's bland and directionless. He says that Larson is wooden.

He also says the filmmakers were afraid to give Captain Marvel any kind of vulnerability or character flaw. I mean if you're trying to make an inspiring, strong female empowerment movie of course she's not going to have any flaws.

 

 

[ztejas 44114]

3 minutes ago, ajax said:

He says that Larson is wooden.

Wow that bigoted sexist fuck. I'm sure he goes around telling women to smile and has no idea what it's like to have a vagina. I hope YT bans him from the platform. 

[TrashMaster G 18030]

13 minutes ago, ajax said:

Here's Stuckman's review. He gives it a C.

Says there are moments of excitement but for the most part it's bland and directionless. He says that Larson is wooden.

He also says the filmmakers were afraid to give Captain Marvel any kind of vulnerability or character flaw. I mean if you're trying to make an inspiring, strong female empowerment movie of course she's not going to have any flaws.

 

 

Judging from the trailer I've seen, she has a balance problem, apparently.  I guess she keeps falling down because it shows her getting up multiple times.

[mdmost 43850]

Maybe she's a boozy superhero. 

[ajax 2671]

5 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Maybe she's a boozy superhero. 

Well, Carol Danvers in the comics is an alcoholic. But Carol Danvers in the movie isn't. She's perfect.

So I don't think that Captain Marvel is falling down. It's that everyone else on earth, and earth itself, is off its axis. Captain Marvel doesn't make mistakes, or fall.

[Longhornfan1024 1707]

7 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Maybe she's a boozy superhero. 

Ironman's already got that covered.

[mdmost 43850]

9 minutes ago, ajax said:

Well, Carol Danvers in the comics is an alcoholic. But Carol Danvers in the movie isn't. She's perfect.

So I don't think that Captain Marvel is falling down. It's that everyone else on earth, and earth itself, is off its axis. Captain Marvel doesn't make mistakes, or fall.

You really seem to have a bug up your ass about this movie and you haven't even seen it yet.

[ajax 2671]

5 minutes ago, mdmost said:

You really seem to have a bug up your ass about this movie and you haven't even seen it yet.

I'm seeing this weekend. I'm hoping it's good but I suspected a lot of lazy storytelling, and early reviews are confirming that. We'll see.

[henrygandorf 29219]

1 hour ago, ajax said:

I mean if you're trying to make an inspiring, strong female empowerment movie of course she's not going to have any flaws.

this has actually become a problem.  i had a meeting with a female exec not long ago at a female driven production company looking for female driven tv projects, and she said everything that comes in is basically a superhero movie (except it's based in real life) and they can't do anything with it.  she called it the "olivia pope" effect.  that "she's awesome at business and everybody wants to fuck her" (her words).

she mentioned how there have been plenty of iconic male roles with deeply flawed main characters - soprano, draper, white, underwood, horseman (had to), mackey, etc and that writers haven't figured out how to do it correctly with women, that the over-correction hasn't corrected itself, or some such.

it's gonna get worse before it gets better.

[ajax 2671]

3 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

this has actually become a problem.  i had a meeting with a female exec not long ago at a female driven production company looking for female driven tv projects, and she said everything that comes in is basically a superhero movie (except it's based in real life) and they can't do anything with it.  she called it the "olivia pope" effect.  that "she's awesome at business and everybody wants to fuck her" (her words).

she mentioned how there have been plenty of iconic male roles with deeply flawed main characters - soprano, draper, white, underwood, horseman (had to), mackey, etc and that writers haven't figured out how to do it correctly with women, that the over-correction hasn't corrected itself, or some such.

it's gonna get worse before it gets better.

I agree, but people act like Aliens and Ellen Ripley don't exist. Or the Bride from Kill Bill. And I personally loved Geena Davis in the Long Kiss Goodnight, even though it bombed in the box office (Sam Jackson was in that too, btw). All kickass women.

It's like Hollywood has forgotten how to write them.

[henrygandorf 29219]

Just now, ajax said:

I agree, but people act like Aliens and Ellen Ripley don't exist. Or the Bride from Kill Bill. And I personally loved Geena Davis in the Long Kiss Goodnight, even though it bombed in the box office (Sam Jackson was in that too, btw). All kickass women.

It's like Hollywood has forgotten how to write them.

to clarify, this was not my opinion, this was an exec basically venting about the quality of material they were getting submitted to them, and the common theme they all shared.

[TrashMaster G 18030]

48 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Maybe she's a boozy superhero. 

She drinks because: men

[TrashMaster G 18030]

48 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Maybe she's a boozy superhero. 

DDP

Edited March 6, 2019 by TrashMaster G

[henrygandorf 29219]

3 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

So, basically women want to make the female equivalent of 1950s John Wayne movies in the name of forward thinking?  Or the female equivalent of a Steven Seagal movie where he won’t even let the final bad guy get a shot in on him in the big final scene to show any vulnerability?  I want to see Brie Larson just nonchalantly stab Tommy Lee Jones in the head on a battleship after 2 hours of build up to end Captain Marvel.

if i'm understanding your question - the answer is that "no, women execs do not want to make movies/tv shows that have female main characters with zero flaws."  the issue is the writers apparently are under the impression that's what people/women want and that's what will sell, so everything getting submitted for consideration contains flawless main women characters, much to the dismay of creative executives in the development business.

[henrygandorf 29219]

7 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

Yeah, I understand it’s the (I’m assuming female) writers driving that and not necessarily the execs.  It’s just ironic that the supposedly empowering characters are like the old school John Wayne roles instead of real people with depth. 

it's men too.  maybe more so.  they write what they think will sell/be appealing to women producers/actors.  the production company i'm referring to belongs to an actress, so a lot of submissions are for her to star in, thus the frustration in finding only shitty "flawless" roles.  and yeah, i agree, it's sad that flawless basically equals cardboard, and depth = flaws.

i had a whole rant in the old yellowstone thread about the redhead who keeps appearing in these shows dominated by male casts (not the same redhead, but essentially the same character).  how she dominates the boardroom, then goes out and drinks whiskey and embarrasses some hapless dude by rejecting his advances, then picks the guy she wants and has some olympic level fuck-session, smokes a cig, and basically tells him to scram. 

yellowstone and succession seemed to both have similar characters (both redheads too) and there are way more examples.  i have to imagine when putting the story together, they were like, "shit, almost all our pivotal characters are men, so when we finally come up with a woman, she needs to be a total badass."  everyone in the room was probably like, "yeah, the math checks out, do that shit."

at least the buzz doesn't seem (so far) to be black panther-ish.  i think wonder-woman was the lead blocker for that scenario.