Gumbo

[jimmyjazz 45162]

26 minutes ago, dcbc said:

My opinion.  Oven roux is superior in flavor to stove-top roux.  The fact that it's more hands-off is a plus, but in my experience, it is in no way a time-saver.  If anything, it takes between 30 minutes to an hour longer for me to do an oven-roux than it does to do a stove-top roux. 

Oh, totally.  It adds time to the process.  I can plan around that.  Plus, I'm notorious for not getting my shit in order as I'm cooking ("mise en place") so a little more runway helps me not screw things up.

[dcbc 14235]

Just had this batch after letting it sit in the fridge for a day.  Solid effort. 

 

/pats self on back

[Deej 76156]

9 hours ago, hornmpa96 said:

She would never put potato salad in red beans. 

Nutria?

[hornmpa96 2538]

24 minutes ago, Deej said:

Nutria?

Nutria sausage

[Texzilla588 765]

According to aforementioned coworker, oven-roux is very common.  So not in the non-traditional camp.
 
My opinion.  Oven roux is superior in flavor to stove-top roux.  The fact that it's more hands-off is a plus, but in my experience, it is in no way a time-saver.  If anything, it takes between 30 minutes to an hour longer for me to do an oven-roux than it does to do a stove-top roux.  In the end, I do it because I find it to be noticeably better.  The ease of doing it in advance to save time the day of the cook is great too.
 
Edited to add that I'm not a person that's going to do something simply because it's traditional.  My gumbo recipe has evolved over the years (entirely due to this thread) and when I try something new, the only thing that will cause me to add it to the official recipe is if it (1) makes the gumbo noticeably better and (2) if it's not a pain in the ass either in effort or time involved versus the level of improvement.  The biggest flavor level-ups over the years for me have been homemade stock and oven roux. 

So I’ve never tried the oven roux because when I watched Alton brown it looked like it just took forever. It looked like one of his science guy projects. If’n you say it makes a big difference in flavor I’ll have to try it.

Have you posted your stock receipt? Is it a seafood or bird focused stock or whatever you got?

Have you tried the oven roux in other dishes like an etoufee? Generally when I get the hankering for Louisiana food I’m making a shrimp etoufee rather than gumbo.

[Anastasis 23207]

Oven roux takes for fucking ever. I get a good base color in the oven and then go stove top to fine tune. Still takes forever. 

[dcbc 14235]

13 minutes ago, Texzilla588 said:

So I’ve never tried the oven roux because when I watched Alton brown it looked like it just took forever. It looked like one of his science guy projects. If’n you say it makes a big difference in flavor I’ll have to try it.

Have you posted your stock recipie. Is it a seafood or bird focused stock or whatever you got?  Roux color varies between gumbo and seafood gumbo.

Have you tried the oven roux in other dishes like an etoufee? Generally when I get the hankering for Louisiana food I’m making a shrimp etoufee rather than gumbo.

It's noticeably better.

It's the Emeril easy stock @South Austin posted upthread and I reposted.  I can post it again, but it's way upthread if not.

 

This is the only roux I regularly make other than the very quick one for enchilada gravy.  I rarely make other Cajun dishes.  Probably one etouffe and a dirty rice in 20  years. 

Edited August 17 by dcbc

[Tonesky 804]

22 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

OK, I'm over my skis here, but I am willing to learn.  (Hey to Winger & Ziskey.)   I know the difference between Creole & Cajun jambalaya (tomatoes).  Same for gumbo or is it something else?

I think tomato is also the primary difference for gumbo, which tends to mean Cajun is also a darker, richer roux.  I think there is also a tendency (but, not a hard rule) for Cajun to less likely have okra.  And, for me, but I don't think actually accurate, I tend to associate Creole as seafood (with tomato and okra) and Cajun as chicken and andouille (with a dark, no tomato, roux).

[harpercollins 394]

My étouffée roux is very blond by comparison so no point really in doing it in the oven. No reason you can’t, of course, but no reason you should either.

[Texzilla588 765]

I think tomato is also the primary difference for gumbo, which tends to mean Cajun is also a darker, richer roux.  I think there is also a tendency (but, not a hard rule) for Cajun to less likely have okra.  And, for me, but I don't think actually accurate, I tend to associate Creole as seafood (with tomato and okra) and Cajun as chicken and andouille (with a dark, no tomato, roux).

My career mentor grew up in New Orleans in a blue collar section just outside the quarter and lived and loved everything about the city and Louisiana. Irish-Cajun and he said the old definitions really hadnt held in years; that family foodways and where you grew up had more to do with it now. His mother put tomatoes in gumbo but not okra; they were sporting family so ut depended on what his dad hunted and fished or what was cheap on the docks.

He used the old joke to define it, like what’s the difference in pasta and macaroni? About eight bucks. And it applies to Cajun and Creole, rustic vs higher end, yada yada. He made killer etouffee, gumbo, red beans, etc. at Thanksgiving he’d fry turkeys and you’d get your appointment. He’d give you a great fried turkey, crawfish dressing, shrimp remoulade, and a bourbon bread pudding with “vanilla gravy”. Good times.

[ROFL BOX 6622]

<--- Native Shreveporter here.  Lots of family from Baton Rouge on down (& a great uncle that was even on the cover of a Justin Wilson comedy album).

I do slimers (Okra) in my Gumbo however I can easily see leaving that out.

Regarding oven roux, does it take consistent attention or is it a "fire & forget" thing?

As to Etouffe', that needs to be my next mastery & of course that starts with attempts & a sufficient # of fails.  Does anyone have a go-to recipe for that?  Should we get a totally separte thread on that topic?

[jimmyjazz 45162]

6 minutes ago, ROFL BOX said:

Regarding oven roux, does it take consistent attention or is it a "fire & forget" thing?

Stir about every 20 minutes.  By recollection it takes ~ an hour to get fairly dark.  Look up the Alton Brown recipe.  (I don't think he came up with the idea, he just promoted it.)

[dcbc 14235]

2 hours ago, ROFL BOX said:

<--- Native Shreveporter here.  Lots of family from Baton Rouge on down (& a great uncle that was even on the cover of a Justin Wilson comedy album).

I do slimers (Okra) in my Gumbo however I can easily see leaving that out.

Regarding oven roux, does it take consistent attention or is it a "fire & forget" thing?

As to Etouffe', that needs to be my next mastery & of course that starts with attempts & a sufficient # of fails.  Does anyone have a go-to recipe for that?  Should we get a totally separte thread on that topic?

 

2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Stir about every 20 minutes.  By recollection it takes ~ an hour to get fairly dark.  Look up the Alton Brown recipe.  (I don't think he came up with the idea, he just promoted it.)

 

Start the roux on the stovetop in a cast iron pan while the oven preheats to 350F.  Put pan in oven and stir every 20 minutes until done.  Definitely not hands off, but not a constant hands-on like doing it on the stove top.  If I didn't think the flavor was better, I'd just do it on the stove top.  For me, it takes at least 2--2.5 hours to hit that dark chocolate color.

Edited August 17 by dcbc

[harpercollins 394]

As to Etouffe', that needs to be my next mastery & of course that starts with attempts & a sufficient # of fails.  Does anyone have a go-to recipe for that?  Should we get a totally separte thread on that topic?

I’m a SETX girl, so I love treebeards. not really Nola style, definitely not bayou style, but it’s my favorite!

TREEBEARDS’ SHRIMP ETOUFFEE
This butter-based dish is loaded with vegetables and shrimp in a sauce lightly accented with cayenne pepper.
1 cup butter
2 2/3 cups celery, chopped into ½ - inch pieces
1 bell pepper, chopped into ½ - inch pieces
1 ¼ teaspoons salt
1/8 rounded teaspoon cayenne pepper
¾ scant teaspoon black pepper
¾ scant teaspoon garlic powder
¾ scant teaspoon thyme
2 cups boiling water mixed with 1 teaspoon shrimp base*
1/8 teaspoon liquid crab boil
½ teaspoon hot sauce
4 teaspoon Worcestershire sauce
1/3 cup fresh parsley, chopped
4 teaspoons tomato paste
2 pounds Treebeards’ shrimp

In heavy 5-quart Dutch oven or saucepan over medium heat, melt butter. Add celery, onions and bell pepper. Stirring occasionally, cook until vegetables are soft; about 20 to 25 minutes.

Meanwhile, in a small bowl, mix spices, shrimp base broth, crab boil, hot sauce and Worcestershire sauce. Set aside. When vegetables are soft, add flour and cook, stirring, for 2 minutes. Add spice mixture; continue to cook for 5 minutes more. Stir in green onions, parsley and tomato paste and simmer until vegetables are tender. Add shrimp and cook only until shrimp are heated through. Serve over hot rice.

SHRIMP BASE

A few recipes in this book call for shrimp base. It can be found in Asian grocery stores or in gourmet sections of larger grocery stores. However, if you cannot find this ingredient, do not omit it from the recipe. Instead, follow these instructions for dry boiling the shrimp to produce the same results. Then use the drippings as indicated below, and then shrimp to replace the Treebeards Shrimp recipe.

Vegetable or olive oil
¼ teaspoon salt
¼ teaspoon black pepper
¼ teaspoon cayenne pepper
¼ teaspoon garlic powder
1 pound peeled shrimp
2 tablespoons vinegar

In a large, heavy skillet over medium heat, add just enough oil to cover bottom of skillet, and heat until oil is hot. Sprinkle the spices over the shrimp. Add vinegar and seasoned shrimp to the skillet and cook, tossing frequently, just until the shrimp are opaque. Remove skillet from heat and cover with tight fitting lid. Cool for 15 minutes.

Remove shrimp with slotted spoon and reserve drippings. Mix 3 tablespoons of drippings en each cup of water called for in the recipe.

[harpercollins 394]

I’m a SETX girl, so I love treebeards. not really Nola style, definitely not bayou style, but it’s my favorite!

TREEBEARDS’ SHRIMP ETOUFFEE
This butter-based dish is loaded with vegetables and shrimp in a sauce lightly accented with cayenne pepper.
1 cup butter
2 2/3 cups celery, chopped into ½ - inch pieces
1 bell pepper, chopped into ½ - inch pieces
1 ¼ teaspoons salt
1/8 rounded teaspoon cayenne pepper
¾ scant teaspoon black pepper
¾ scant teaspoon garlic powder
¾ scant teaspoon thyme
2 cups boiling water mixed with 1 teaspoon shrimp base*
1/8 teaspoon liquid crab boil
½ teaspoon hot sauce
4 teaspoon Worcestershire sauce
1/3 cup fresh parsley, chopped
4 teaspoons tomato paste
2 pounds Treebeards’ shrimp

In heavy 5-quart Dutch oven or saucepan over medium heat, melt butter. Add celery, onions and bell pepper. Stirring occasionally, cook until vegetables are soft; about 20 to 25 minutes.

Meanwhile, in a small bowl, mix spices, shrimp base broth, crab boil, hot sauce and Worcestershire sauce. Set aside. When vegetables are soft, add flour and cook, stirring, for 2 minutes. Add spice mixture; continue to cook for 5 minutes more. Stir in green onions, parsley and tomato paste and simmer until vegetables are tender. Add shrimp and cook only until shrimp are heated through. Serve over hot rice.

SHRIMP BASE

A few recipes in this book call for shrimp base. It can be found in Asian grocery stores or in gourmet sections of larger grocery stores. However, if you cannot find this ingredient, do not omit it from the recipe. Instead, follow these instructions for dry boiling the shrimp to produce the same results. Then use the drippings as indicated below, and then shrimp to replace the Treebeards Shrimp recipe.

Vegetable or olive oil
¼ teaspoon salt
¼ teaspoon black pepper
¼ teaspoon cayenne pepper
¼ teaspoon garlic powder
1 pound peeled shrimp
2 tablespoons vinegar

In a large, heavy skillet over medium heat, add just enough oil to cover bottom of skillet, and heat until oil is hot. Sprinkle the spices over the shrimp. Add vinegar and seasoned shrimp to the skillet and cook, tossing frequently, just until the shrimp are opaque. Remove skillet from heat and cover with tight fitting lid. Cool for 15 minutes.

Remove shrimp with slotted spoon and reserve drippings. Mix 3 tablespoons of drippings en each cup of water called for in the recipe.

Looks like I’m missing 1/2 c flour from the ingredients list.

[ROFL BOX 6622]

18 minutes ago, harpercollins said:

Looks like I’m missing 1/2 c flour from the ingredients list.

I re-read 3× thinking I missed something.

 

You *can* edit the OP.

[harpercollins 394]

I re-read 3× thinking I missed something.
 
You *can* edit the OP.

Ah I’ll try on web, tapa edit button expires pretty quickly.

[ROFL BOX 6622]

7 minutes ago, harpercollins said:

Ah I’ll try on web, tapa edit button expires pretty quickly.

🤔

I have used Tapa's "edit" feature months later w/ Ø advers affects.  Are you using the paid "Pro" version?  That may be the delineating factor.

& Tapa doesn't publish the "edited" note like the web & [app extention phone] versions do.

[thrillhammer 680]

so if the difference between pasta and macaroni is eight bucks, whats the differrence between gumbo and jambalaya?   i'm thinking about making a jambalaya for our first game in two weeks.   i'm thinking shrimp, crab, and andouille sausage.  theres a possibility some duck might go in.  i have a problem with editing so could easily kitchensink this bitch.

[harpercollins 394]

Gumbo is stew/soup. Jambalaya is a paella style rice dish.

[thrillhammer 680]

8 minutes ago, harpercollins said:

Gumbo is stew/soup. Jambalaya is a paella style rice dish.

but you serve gumbo over rice, so in the end....?   am i gathering correctly that the main difference is the amount of stock?

[harpercollins 394]

but you serve gumbo over rice, so in the end....?   am i gathering correctly that the main difference is the amount of stock?

Yes. In jambalaya the raw rice and broth are cooked together with the fond.

[harpercollins 394]

In gumbo, cooked white rice is added separately when served.

[bluto 4804]

Really dig this recipe as a base for etouffe, I also take an immersion blender to it smooth it out before adding seafood (I do both crawfish and shrimp in mine). 
 

[RMac5 1546]

I love potato salad in a gumbo, hard boiled eggs are damn good too. 
 

@harpercollins thanks for the etouffee recipe, it looks great. How much of the green onion do you add?

Edited August 19 by RMac5

[harpercollins 394]

1 hour ago, RMac5 said:

 

@harpercollins thanks for the etouffee recipe, it looks great. How much of the green onion do you add?

dang! missing two ingredients!  i use all the green parts from one bunch; no white parts because it doesn't really have time to soften. I also cut back on the tomato paste because I use the cento double concentrated tomato paste tube. I also devein the shrimp for étouffée, though Treebeards doesn't (and I don't devein for gumbo). Shrimp is really the star here, and I take time to devein in this. 

[Hamttx 414]

Just now, harpercollins said:

dang! missing two ingredients!  i use all the green parts from one bunch; no white parts because it doesn't really have time to soften. I also cut back on the tomato paste because I use the cento double concentrated tomato paste tube. I also devein the shrimp for étouffée, though Treebeards doesn't (and I don't devein for gumbo). Shrimp is really the star here, and I take time to devein in this. 

My, my that looks good!

[harpercollins 394]

In the cooler months we are making red beans and rice and/or shrimp étouffée on a heavy rotation. I actually had some custom flight boards made for my little bowls so you can eat gumbo, red beans and étouffée all at once with some crusty bread, Zesta crackers, and a simple salad.

My HEB reliably gets fresh gulf shrimp weekly now, gulf snapper a couple times a month, and my crab guy is like clockwork too now that he quit his food truck business. I NEVER used to eat shellfish or fish in central Texas and now I do all the time! I pay through the nose for it, but it’s good!

[ROFL BOX 6622]

14 minutes ago, harpercollins said:

my crab guy is like clockwork too now that he quit his food truck business. I NEVER used to eat shellfish or fish in central Texas and now I do all the time! I pay through the nose for it, but it’s good!

Who is your crab guy?

[Texzilla588 765]

but you serve gumbo over rice, so in the end....?   am i gathering correctly that the main difference is the amount of stock?

Nope. They are quite different. As said, gumbo is a stew, and it might be eaten alone, or with white rice, or French fries, or with potato salad.

Jambalaya is very similar to an arroz con pollo. The rice is cooked in a seasoned broth with added proteins and vegetables. The rice absorbs all the flavor of the ingredients.

Would you confuse Chinese fried rice with kung pao chicken that is served on rice?

[harpercollins 394]

Who is your crab guy?

John williams in Killeen aka papa jazzy. I used to meet him in the strip club parking lot but now he will deliver to me in temple. He’s the greatest. I’ve had only one crab die in five years.

[harpercollins 394]

I don’t buy shrimp from papa jazzy, though. They are giant and tasty, but Idk why, they are impossible to peel. raw, bbq, or lowcountry style.

[ROFL BOX 6622]

Temple?  Too far for me.  I would probably go to Quality on Airport @ 51st.

Speaking of, it's been quite some time since I have had any Blues. 

🤔 🤔

[luke duke 6361]

You got crabs from a guy named Papa Jazzy in a strip club parking lot? You sound fun.

[BHMCruiser 1806]

Do any of y'all have any experience with gluten-free flour roux? I have a family friend who has celiac disease and I would like to accommodate him. 

[dcbc 14235]

1 minute ago, BHMCruiser said:

Do any of y'all have any experience with gluten-free flour roux? I have a family friend who has celiac disease and I would like to accommodate him. 

From all I have read, it should work fine.  

[South Austin 51564]

12 minutes ago, BHMCruiser said:

Do any of y'all have any experience with gluten-free flour roux? I have a family friend who has celiac disease and I would like to accommodate him. 

 

10 minutes ago, dcbc said:

From all I have read, it should work fine.  

Like dcbc said, it should be okay, but I have yet to try it myself.  

Word of caution though, if you're going to be using store-made chicken stock, make sure it's gluten free, because some retail brands have gluten-containing ingredients.  We have a friend who has celiac, and a couple years ago saw first hand a reaction to having just a little bit of gluten.  It wasn't pretty.

[DalTxHornFan 3070]

1 hour ago, BHMCruiser said:

Do any of y'all have any experience with gluten-free flour roux? I have a family friend who has celiac disease and I would like to accommodate him. 

I've done it with rice flour.  Worked fine.  (Then I nearly killed a woman who had shellfish allergies!)

[BHMCruiser 1806]

1 hour ago, South Austin said:

 

Like dcbc said, it should be okay, but I have yet to try it myself.  

Word of caution though, if you're going to be using store-made chicken stock, make sure it's gluten free, because some retail brands have gluten-containing ingredients.  We have a friend who has celiac, and a couple years ago saw first hand a reaction to having just a little bit of gluten.  It wasn't pretty.

Thanks for the heads up on that. I try to be careful but one time used guinness as part of a short rib braise and had to make something else for him. A good reminder to check every ingredient. 

24 minutes ago, DalTxHornFan said:

I've done it with rice flour.  Worked fine.  (Then I nearly killed a woman who had shellfish allergies!)

That's on her. She shouldn't be eating gumbo.

[dcbc 14235]

24 minutes ago, BHMCruiser said:

Thanks for the heads up on that. I try to be careful but one time used guinness as part of a short rib braise and had to make something else for him. A good reminder to check every ingredient. 

That's on her. She shouldn't be eating gumbo.

 

That was pretty shellfish of her.

 

[South Austin 51564]

1 minute ago, dcbc said:

That was pretty shellfish of her.

[BHMCruiser 1806]

53 minutes ago, dcbc said:

 

That was pretty shellfish of her.

 

i like

[luke duke 6361]

Like dcbc said, it should be okay, but I have yet to try it myself.  
Word of caution though, if you're going to be using store-made chicken stock, make sure it's gluten free, because some retail brands have gluten-containing ingredients.  We have a friend who has celiac, and a couple years ago saw first hand a reaction to having just a little bit of gluten.  It wasn't pretty.

[Deej 76156]

4 hours ago, dcbc said:

 

That was pretty shellfish of her.

 

[Bill Brasky 1426]

On 8/19/2024 at 12:13 AM, harpercollins said:

John williams in Killeen aka papa jazzy. I used to meet him in the strip club parking lot but now he will deliver to me in temple. He’s the greatest. I’ve had only one crab die in five years.

Dollhouse ? 

[freyguy 4239]

Never cooked the roux this dark before...I trust u guys...

[DoobieWah 1374]

Aaaaaaaannnnd.....?

[freyguy 4239]

sorry, long night.  

Made this with gluten free flour.  Directions for the roux were initially taking way too long.  So I had to crank it up.

Beef sausage, smoked chicken breast, lots of frozen crawfish tails.  Let it cool down naturally overnight, into the fridge this morning.  Heated it up again for dinner.  This is definitely the best gumbo I've ever cooked.

[elfenix 34075]

On 9/22/2024 at 6:18 PM, freyguy said:

Let it cool down naturally overnight, into the fridge this morning

[Brisketexan 103515]

Yeah…my eyebrow went up too.
Dude. You pour it into a container and put it in the fridge once it cools down off the simmer a bit. You don’t just leave it out at room temp all night.