The GQP: Trumpist Death Cult

[JimmyJames 12,271]

10 hours ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/22/opinion/trump-gop.html

 

 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

“The decent know that they must become ruthless. They must become the stuff of nightmares,” Jack Kerwick writes in the Trumpian magazine American Greatness. “The good man must spare not a moment to train, in both body and mind, to become the monster that he may need to become in order to slay the monsters that prey upon the vulnerable.”

With this view, the Jan. 6 insurrection was not a shocking descent into lawlessness but practice for the war ahead. A week after the siege, nearly a quarter of Republicans polled said violence can be acceptable to achieve political goals. William Saletan of Slate recently rounded up the evidence showing how many Republican politicians are now cheering the Jan. 6 crowd, voting against resolutions condemning them.

Liberal democracy is based on a level of optimism, faith and a sense of security. It’s based on confidence in the humanistic project: that through conversation and encounter, we can deeply know each other across differences; that most people are seeking the good with different opinions about how to get there; that society is not a zero-sum war, but a conversation and a negotiation.

As Leon Wieseltier writes in the magazine Liberties, James Madison was an optimist and a pessimist at the same time, a realist and an idealist. Philosophic liberals — whether on the right side of the political spectrum or the left — understand people have selfish interests, but believe in democracy and open conversation because they have confidence in the capacities of people to define their own lives, to care for people unlike themselves, to keep society progressing.

With their deep pessimism, the hyperpopulist wing of the G.O.P. seems to be crashing through the floor of philosophic liberalism into an abyss of authoritarian impulsiveness. Many of these folks are no longer even operating in the political realm. The G.O.P. response to the Biden agenda has been anemic because the base doesn’t care about mere legislation, just their own cultural standing.

Over the last decade or so, as illiberalism, cancel culture and all the rest have arisen within the universities and elite institutions on the left, dozens of publications and organizations have sprung up. They have drawn a sharp line between progressives who believe in liberal free speech norms, and those who don’t.

There are new and transformed magazines and movements like American Purpose, Persuasion, Counterweight, Arc Digital, Tablet and Liberties that point out the excesses of the social justice movement and distinguish between those who think speech is a mutual exploration to seek truth and those who think speech is a structure of domination to perpetuate systems of privilege.

This is exactly the line-drawing that now confronts the right, which faces a more radical threat. Republicans and conservatives who believe in the liberal project need to organize and draw a bright line between themselves and the illiberals on their own side. This is no longer just about Trump the man, it’s about how you are going to look at reality — as the muddle its always been, or as an apocalyptic hellscape. It’s about how you pursue change — through the conversation and compromise of politics, or through intimidations of macho display.

I can tell a story in which the Trumpians self-marginalize or exhaust themselves. Permanent catastrophism is hard. But apocalyptic pessimism has a tendency to deteriorate into nihilism, and people eventually turn to the strong man to salve the darkness and chaos inside themselves.

 

Frankly this should not be surprising. This is the final last stand of white supremacy and these people completely believe in the great replacement theory as recently espoused by one tucker Carlson. It’s why they worship Trump despite the fact he’s a completely amoral asshole.

Whenever they say they are defending the “constitution.” That is code for they are defending white privilege.

Whenever they say they support “patriots.” That is code for supporting white supremacists. 

[JimmyJames 12,271]

They oppose immigration because it means the whites are being replaced by the browns.

They oppose abortion because most abortions are done by white women which then necessitates brown immigration so American capitalism can replace those jobs.

They oppose gun control because its simply a way for a black Muslim from Kenya to leave them powerless with no weapons after all the immigrants come in to replace the aborted whites. 
 

It’s always been about race in America. And the elites know how to push the right buttons to maintain control.

Edited April 24, 2021 by JimmyJames

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

15 hours ago, JimmyJames said:

Frankly this should not be surprising. This is the final last stand of white supremacy and these people completely believe in the great replacement theory as recently espoused by one tucker Carlson. It’s why they worship Trump despite the fact he’s a completely amoral asshole.

Whenever they say they are defending the “constitution.” That is code for they are defending white privilege.

Whenever they say they support “patriots.” That is code for supporting white supremacists. 

The True Texas Project supports that code.

They are also fond of Texans for Vaccine Choice.

https://truetexasproject.com/

 

[JimmyJames 12,271]

5 hours ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

The True Texas Project supports that code.

They are also fond of Texans for Vaccine Choice.

https://truetexasproject.com/

 

All of these assholes became interested in politics in 2009. Gee, I wonder what happened the year before to cause that?
 

https://truetexasproject.com/about/

[Fudge Nuggets 19,190]

On 4/23/2021 at 8:30 AM, Beau Vine said:

 

No big deal even if Texas wins the suit.  The Dotard administration showed the executive branch can ignore laws it doesn’t like.

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

This has been the concern, despite the naysayers--and worse, they are organizing and coalescing.

 

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

That was Minnesota, here is Michigan:

 

[BrickHorn 18,236]

45 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

This has been the concern, despite the naysayers--and worse, they are organizing and coalescing.

We are witnessing the growth of the American Nazi party. It’s fucking shocking, but it’s 100% happening. 

[Beau Vine 54,230]

Look at this piece of crap:

 

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

I'm quoting BrickHorn from two threads because these are related and IMO, important. The first quote is from the dipshit Okie thread relating to their legislators and bills proposed and passed.

9 hours ago, BrickHorn said:

These fascist MAGA dipshits sure went from “A Berkeley student disagreeing with me violates my sacred free speech rights!” to “We should be allowed to brutally murder anyone at a public assembly!” in record time. 

 

8 hours ago, BrickHorn said:

We are witnessing the growth of the American Nazi party. It’s fucking shocking, but it’s 100% happening. 

Certainly something that bears a resemblance. Y'all may disagree with the following, but I'm not going to call them Nazis because that specific designation distracts from the discussion per se. I don't particularly wish to go back and forth with defenders (of the GOP) on an item by item basis of the ticky tacky details of how they differ.

 

What they ARE becoming is

• increasingly radicalized,
• increasingly on the same page (gathering of disparate groups out of chaos to form one)
• increasingly embracing small scale politics to expand power
• and finally increasingly proposing and passing legislation that enables the judiciary to enforce their ideology.

It ties together from top to bottom and from the bottom to the top so I'd like to make a case without benefit of a legal degree that what they are doing should serve as a warning for the future. And the future is now. It should keep you up and night.

It begins with this:

• the policies and appointments of the Trump administration with the judges that will rule on the various cases that will be placed before them. Those that say, "well, some Trump judges haven't necessarily done so!" True, very true, but with over 245 appointments, 234 who are/were Article III judges, some of this intricate planning takes awhile to come to fruition.
• the posts and articles  placed in front of us concerning groups waging war on a local level. From school boards to PACs to election commissions, to registration drives. It's small ball politics and it is gaining steam. The more steam it gains, the easier it is to suppress, disenfranchise, and stamp out hope for progress. Want to complain about a school policy that concerns your non Christian child, your transgender child, your minority child? Deaf ears will be the result. Want to obtain a permit for your protest? 'Oh so sorry, that's a no.' Or, if it is granted, and then declared a riot, well, see above in Oklahoma for what the outcome could feasibly be.
• the meetings nationwide, with guest hosts and speakers (Michael Flynn, et al) are chosen with purpose. These are rallies to bring together groups with various agendas and place them in company with each other socially to form bonds of agreement and to solidify support. It better aligns the circles on the Venn to become one.
• the groups then coalesce in their bubbles to inform those contained within on who the 'out' groups are and keep them 'out.'

Lastly, you have groups like Stephen Miller's legal group to harass and highlight issues of importance to the ideology to keep the energy maintained, wholly supported by entities such as Fox, OANN, and Newsmax who over and over and over again feature guests who trumpet lies as facts, reinforce the grievances and ideology, and are never or rarely, questioned regarding the validity of their statements.

This is what the majority of the GOP mainstream is. From the Senate to the House, from Josh Hawley and Ted Cruz to Marjorie Taylor Greene to Louis Gohmert, from Republican governors to legislatures with Republican majorities, any reasonableness has been subsumed or replaced with this ideology and mindset. Sure, it's all about power and money, and they don't want to lose either, but they have no qualms about it because they have been and continue to prepare to employ their short and long range plans to keep them both.

Greg Sargent wrote an op-ed about the phenomenon and this quote sums it up pretty well.

Quote

If these folks recognize no obligation of any kind to remain tethered to reality in depicting the leftist menace however they see fit, then it's a short leap to justifying anything in response to it. Which is the whole point.

 

Yes, that is the whole point.

Bringing officer Chauvin into court and holding him accountable for his actions was a step counter to this, and now justice for brutality and death--justice which has gone missing for decades--is labeled as the 'mob' coming for 'us' and a rallying cry to fight back with a mob of their own.

It's going to get worse. On all levels. Midterms are coming.

Stay safe, stay vigilant.

 

 

 

[Sawbonz 27,564]

12 hours ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

This has been the concern, despite the naysayers--and worse, they are organizing and coalescing.

 

And losing members every cycle

[Sawbonz 27,564]

11 hours ago, BrickHorn said:

We are witnessing the growth of the American Nazi party. It’s fucking shocking, but it’s 100% happening. 

Actually we are witnessing the death of the Republican Party 

[Biff Tannen 45,688]

1 hour ago, Sawbonz said:

Actually we are witnessing the death of the Republican Party 

This is one possible outcome.  But it has to be pushed to that conclusion.  We can't assume they will do it on their own.

[Sawbonz 27,564]

1 minute ago, Biff Tannen said:

This is one possible outcome.  But it has to be pushed to that conclusion.  We can't assume they will do it on their own.

Bullshit it is a possible outcome. Every measurable data point shows this is exactly what is happening. There is no need to stoke the irrational fears of people like by saying that this movement is growing. An honest, accurate way to say it would be there is a growing fascist element in the republican party, which has steadily lost members over the past four election cycles, a trend that has accelerated since Trump was elected. And there are no indicators that this trend will reverse anytime soon

[Biff Tannen 45,688]

1 hour ago, Sawbonz said:

Bullshit it is a possible outcome. Every measurable data point shows this is exactly what is happening. There is no need to stoke the irrational fears of people like by saying that this movement is growing. An honest, accurate way to say it would be there is a growing fascist element in the republican party, which has steadily lost members over the past four election cycles, a trend that has accelerated since Trump was elected. And there are no indicators that this trend will reverse anytime soon

You're very confident and I hope you're right.  I just witnessed 5 years of the worst America has to offer in the modern era and I'd rather err on the side of caution than just assume they are going to continue eating themselves.

[Sawbonz 27,564]

Just now, Biff Tannen said:

You're very confident and I hope you're right.  I just witnessed 5 years of the worst America has to offer in the modern era and I'd rather err on the side of caution than just assume they are going to continue eating themselves.

I mean you can let objective objective data drive your opinion or you can look at anecdotal evidence of fundraising dinners in Bemidji Minnesota. You know, these people:

 

I would argue different parts of the brain are in play when deciding which one to give more weight

[Brisketexan 105,144]

History lesson: authoritarian fascist movements don’t NEED majority support to rise to power. Stop counting voters, and just consider what the fascists are willing to DO to take power. That’s all that matters.

The radicalization we’re seeing here is hardly unprecedented. It’s incredibly dangerous. And more people are going to die.

[Sawbonz 27,564]

6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

History lesson: authoritarian fascist movements don’t NEED majority support to rise to power. Stop counting voters, and just consider what the fascists are willing to DO to take power. That’s all that matters.

The radicalization we’re seeing here is hardly unprecedented. It’s incredibly dangerous. And more people are going to die.

Spoiler alert: we are all going to die. 
 

Remember when you said Chauvin wasn’t going to be convicted?

Edited April 25, 2021 by Sawbonz

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

On 4/22/2021 at 12:59 PM, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

One of my Facebook GQP friends

But why?

[Brisketexan 105,144]

Spoiler alert: we are all going to die. 
 
Remember when you said Chauvin wasn’t going to be convicted?

I said that there was a good chance of a hung jury. Did you see the reaction of white American to his conviction? How a jury verdict is now “mob rule,” and how all cops should just quit now?

Our situation is more dangerous now than it was before 1/6. It’s just slower moving.

[Pato del Muerto 52,499]

31 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Spoiler alert: we are all going to die. 
 

Remember when you said Chauvin wasn’t going to be convicted?

We have people working on the whole inevitability of death thing. 

[Sawbonz 27,564]

31 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I said that there was a good chance of a hung jury. Did you see the reaction of white American to his conviction? How a jury verdict is now “mob rule,” and how all cops should just quit now?

Our situation is more dangerous now than it was before 1/6. It’s just slower moving.

[Asithappens 974]

1 hour ago, Sawbonz said:

I mean you can let objective objective data drive your opinion or you can look at anecdotal evidence of fundraising dinners in Bemidji Minnesota. You know, these people:

 

I would argue different parts of the brain are in play when deciding which one to give more weight

Hey! You can bad mouth Chaska, Le Sueur, or even White Bear Lake, but leave Bemidji out of it. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26,468]

1 hour ago, Sawbonz said:

Bullshit it is a possible outcome. Every measurable data point shows this is exactly what is happening. There is no need to stoke the irrational fears of people like by saying that this movement is growing. An honest, accurate way to say it would be there is a growing fascist element in the republican party, which has steadily lost members over the past four election cycles, a trend that has accelerated since Trump was elected. And there are no indicators that this trend will reverse anytime soon

Except that one trend where they reject democracy and stage a coup 

Edited April 25, 2021 by Bozo_Casanova

[Sawbonz 27,564]

 

1 minute ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Except that one trend where they reject democracy and start a civil war.

Why don’t you go ahead and put what you think the odds of that happening are

Edited April 25, 2021 by Sawbonz

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

1 hour ago, Sawbonz said:

Bullshit it is a possible outcome. Every measurable data point shows this is exactly what is happening. There is no need to stoke the irrational fears of people like by saying that this movement is growing. An honest, accurate way to say it would be there is a growing fascist element in the republican party, which has steadily lost members over the past four election cycles, a trend that has accelerated since Trump was elected. And there are no indicators that this trend will reverse anytime soon

 

1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

You're very confident and I hope you're right.  I just witnessed 5 years of the worst America has to offer in the modern era and I'd rather err on the side of caution than just assume they are going to continue eating themselves.

I acknowledge your point especially regarding the trend, but the lack of numbers seems to be of lesser consequence than the growth of the fascist element in both power and agreement which is more to @Biff Tannen's point.

How is it irrational to say that people should be aware of the trends in legislation, in the types of propaganda the party is pushing, and the other coordinated efforts around gaining ground in how the country functions through its institutions (elections, education, law enforcement, courts, media) especially considering how close the electoral vote was and that DC statehood will likely not come to fruition, the Census has not yet been released officially, and so on?

There are numerous ways to overthrow a republic, but monitoring and cautioning against its potential given recent events, is not irrational.

Edited April 25, 2021 by Mrs Whiggins
wayward apostrophe

[Sawbonz 27,564]

1 minute ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

How is it irrational to say that people should be aware of the trends in legislation, in the types of propaganda the party is pushing, and the other coordinated efforts around gaining ground in how the country

It’s the sheer volume of your posting on this topic and the doom scrolling that you bring over here that puts the lie to the idea that this is rational thought. 

[JimmyJames 12,271]

50 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I said that there was a good chance of a hung jury. Did you see the reaction of white American to his conviction? How a jury verdict is now “mob rule,” and how all cops should just quit now?

Our situation is more dangerous now than it was before 1/6. It’s just slower moving.

Our situation is not more dangerous for the very simple reason that trump is not the president anymore. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

14 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

It’s the sheer volume of your posting on this topic and the doom scrolling that you bring over here that puts the lie to the idea that this is rational thought. 

Is it off topic? The volume of  information is too overwhelming? For that I apologize if it is 'gloomy and doomy.' But I differ on the labeling of it as irrational. If the attempts to undermine free and fair elections in order to supplant majority rule are ignored, then I guess we get what we deserve.

Several months ago there was a debate on this very site regarding potential outcomes prior to the twentieth of January--martial law, refusing to concede, Secret Service escort, and so on. The number of American voters who supported those actions was shockingly high. Very few people had what happened at the Capitol on their bingo card and we are fortunate that it ended with Joe Biden in office and moving apace to win people over through action and hard work.

I applaud that work and the continued pace of progressive outcomes. But in order to have hope, there must be a shared reality about what happened and what is to come. We're not there yet and keeping those people in mind as the rest of the country moves forward is not doomscrolling, it is being honest.

I've also seen signs that some Trump voters are 'waking' up a little. I will try and point those out too in the future if that helps.

[Bozo_Casanova 26,468]

30 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

 

Why don’t you go ahead and put what you think the odds of that happening are

I edited “start a civil war” to “stage a coup” because the second is more likely than the first. That being said, since they attempted a coup in January, I’d say that’s 50/50 in the next two decades, at least. The chances of it including a civil war are probably in the 15% range. 

[WhatTheBuck 28,783]

37 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Why don’t you go ahead and put what you think the odds of that happening are

In recent memory, 100%. Fortunately the coup attempt failed. Next time we may not be so lucky. 

[Degenerate Gardner 4,085]

12 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

Look at this piece of crap:

 

Traditional values such as an aversion to adultery and sloth? You'd better hope not Newt, you cold hearted villainous amphibian.

[tchookem 3,900]

You're very confident and I hope you're right.  I just witnessed 5 years of the worst America has to offer in the modern era and I'd rather err on the side of caution than just assume they are going to continue eating themselves.

More like 20 years... shit 40 years. Reagan only put a decent face on it.

[Sawbonz 27,564]

21 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

In recent memory, 100%. Fortunately the coup attempt failed. Next time we may not be so lucky. 

He said civil war. 

[Sawbonz 27,564]

32 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I edited “start a civil war” to “stage a coup” because the second is more likely than the first. That being said, since they attempted a coup in January, I’d say that’s 50/50 in the next two decades, at least. The chances of it including a civil war are probably in the 15% range. 

So 15% chance of a shooting war in the next 20 years?  ARs vs tanks huh? Come on man 

 

and your edit is just moving goal posts. We literally had a coup attempt that was quashed without even using troops. How do you think Republican rolls have fared post 01.06?

Edited April 25, 2021 by Sawbonz

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

Civil war, lord I hope not. Going off the specific dictionary definition of it, I'd agree with the odds being low. Outbreaks of domestic terrorism I am less optimistic: greater than 50% but am also hopeful that with more vaccinations, etc that a greater economic upswing may quell some of that. It may come down to how desperate the fringe extremists are to believing they are losing 'their' moment and what they believe will bring about the end result they desire. The insurrection/Stop the Steal was about (IMO) both planned outcomes and inspiring loose cannons. Harnessing either of those is as much hubris as my speculation and opinion. Not all of those loose cannons are sitting in jail right now.

The majority of citizens want no harm to come to others and keeping that in mind, let us hope that it is a warm, pleasant, and uneventful summer. Even boring by comparison would be a good thing.

[Pancho 44,805]

 

[Bozo_Casanova 26,468]

15 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

So 15% chance of a shooting war in the next 20 years?  ARs vs tanks huh? Come on man 

 

and your edit is just moving goal posts. We literally had a coup attempt that was quashed without even using troops. How do you think Republican rolls have fared post 01.06?

ARs vs Tanks and set piece infantry/artillery  battles? Almost certainly not.  Guerrilla war in the rural areas of blue states and occupation of cities in Red States with the military in the middle making very tough choices during a state of anarchy, possibly.

Edited April 25, 2021 by Bozo_Casanova

[Mole 4,333]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

I said that there was a good chance of a hung jury. Did you see the reaction of white American to his conviction? How a jury verdict is now “mob rule,” and how all cops should just quit now?

Our situation is more dangerous now than it was before 1/6. It’s just slower moving.

Anecdotally, only a small subset of white America started crying about “mob rule.” It seems like the majority feel like justice was served. I’ve seen some victim-blaming “don’t break the law if you don’t want to get cop-murdered” garbage, but even those tend to think justice was served.

[WhatTheBuck 28,783]

27 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

He said civil war. 

Not when I replied. And we’re at least in a cold civil war. And it’s as true in 2021 as it was in 1861: if you’re on the side that’s waving the Confederate flag then you’re on the wrong side. (I’m not accusing you of being on the side waving the Confederate flag now. I’m just stating a fact.)

[Sawbonz 27,564]

11 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

And we’re at least in a cold civil war

No

[Sawbonz 27,564]

31 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Guerrilla war in the rural areas of blue states and occupation of cities in Red States with the military in the middle making very tough choices during a state of anarchy, possibly.

 

[Brisketexan 105,144]

Anecdotally, only a small subset of white America started crying about “mob rule.” It seems like the majority feel like justice was served. I’ve seen some victim-blaming “don’t break the law if you don’t want to get cop-murdered” garbage, but even those tend to think justice was served.

46% of republicans. And as that party is radicalizing, the percentages are only going up.

One of our two parties, in a two party system, is going full-on fascist, in favor of a coup, democracy be damned.

Half of us are acting as if democracy was still a thing. The other half is not. It’s boxing versus someone who will stab you in the ring. Underestimate that threat at your peril.

[Sawbonz 27,564]

Oh

 

Polling data shows Republican party affiliation is down as independents leaning toward the Democratic party surge

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/the-number-of-americans-identifying-as-republican-is-the-lowest-its-been-in-a-decade-gallup-poll-11617812129

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

To your credit, Sawbonz, I did see this photo: It's a panel discussion with members of the Texas lege (including Briscoe Cain) at the meeting of the Young Conservatives of Texas this weekend. See that the demographic in that picture has an overly generous definition of 'young.'

 

[Bozo_Casanova 26,468]

14 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Oh

 

Polling data shows Republican party affiliation is down as independents leaning toward the Democratic party surge

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/the-number-of-americans-identifying-as-republican-is-the-lowest-its-been-in-a-decade-gallup-poll-11617812129

Because if there’s anything we can agree on, it’s that the people we’re talking about respect the outcome of the Democratic process.

 

28 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

 

Saw what you will, but the there’s a heavy overlap (pun intended) between who would be involved and the elected law enforcement apparatus of many rural and exurban counties. 

[Sawbonz 27,564]

2 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Because if there’s anything we can agree on, it’s that the people we’re talking about respect the outcome of the Democratic process.

 

Saw what you will, but the there’s a heavy overlap (pun intended) between who would be involved and the elected law enforcement apparatus of many rural and exurban counties. 

I guess we will see. Somehow I really don’t think you are losing sleep over the possibility. Some on this thread are. And some reading this thread and not posting may be swayed to. Falsely inflating the likelihood of a civil war also serves to further polarize the “good guys” allowing them to dehumanize the bad guys. Not helpful IMO but you do you

[Willfully Horn 8,017]

2 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

It’s the sheer volume of your posting on this topic and the doom scrolling that you bring over here that puts the lie to the idea that this is rational thought. 

You agree there is a fascist element growing in a political party, but object to folks fixating on how dangerous that might be? Then say such fixation is not rational? 
 

I disagree.

[Sawbonz 27,564]

Just now, Willfully Horn said:

You agree there is a fascist element growing in a political party, but object to folks fixating on how dangerous that might be? Then say such fixation is not rational? 
 

I disagree.

Ok?

[WhatTheBuck 28,783]

45 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

No

Yes. 😛