The GQP: Trumpist Death Cult

[Js1 85204]

8 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Pretty sure Utah lets capital offenders choose from a list of approved methods of execution, one of which is firing squad. 

Don’t think it’s been used in over a decade there 

[bolverk 29619]

9 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

i really had no idea is was that bad. i'm thinking about moving it here and renaming it.

Yeah, please, don't move it, but you guys should recognize it for what it is: a focal point for the dissemination of misinformation and denialism, and in my opinion the most decisive catalyst for turning the "news" forum into a its-not-political-if-I-get-pos-rep-from-other-CR-outcasts. Just name a thread and look at them individually with a critical eye. Almost every controversial one devolves into a debate where everyone is pretending not to be "political" while also injecting cable news talking points.

 

Consider how the DT thread has unfolded:

CR refugees: Hey! There's this crazy virus killing people in China. Haha! Stupid Commies!

Everyone else: Yeah, it looks like it's spreading...maybe we ought to do something about it and start taking precautions.

 

CR refugees: Why? It's no big deal (inside voice: because Trump says so).

Everyone else: Holy fuck... It's coming and we're not doing shit to stop it.

 

CR refugees: Lockdowns are for Commies.

Everyone else: Look, man, until we figure this shit out, it's better to be safe than sorry.

 

CR refugees: Fuck China! They eat bats! This escaped from a lab!

Everyone else: I dunno, man. We can pin blame later after investigating. Let's just take care of the now.

 

CR refugees: Masks don't do shit! Open everything up! The hospitals are getting paid to count deaths as Covid.

Everyone else: Masks help. Let's be cautious in how we open things up. What the fuck are you talking about?

 

CR refugees: Help! Help! I'm being repressed!

Everyone else: Just act like a responsible fucking adult. The vaccine is coming.

 

CR refugees:  The schools aren't open and kids are killing themselves!

Everyone else: There are risk factors for kids returning to school, but most have opened. Please, just be cautious.

 

CR refugees: The vaccine is here! All praise Trump's Operation Warp Speed.

Everyone else: Yay! Let's go get vaxxed!!!

 

(Biden takes office)

 

CR refugees: I got mine! Fuck all y'all for forcing everybody to get vaxxed.

Everyone else: I got mine too! We're in the endgame. ERR'BODY GET VAXXED!!! (no one is forcing you to get vaxxed, dumbass).

 

CR refugees: Fauci can't tell us exactly what precise percentage of the population is required to reach herd immunity! Vaccine passports are SOCIALISM!!! Do they even work?!?

Everyone else: ...

 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by bolverk

[Guest Lobo]

3 hours ago, Js1 said:

Uh, holy mother of god 

 

The Palmetto State.  Sure we were the last state to get adequate Covid-19 testing, anti-body testing, and the vaccine drug.  But that's because our pharma testing procurement team was busy trying to get lethal injection drugs.  But now that we found a bunch of bullets, we can get back to the pharma thing.  Now...what's this Covid-19 thing and what kinda tests and shots we talking about here?  I'll need you to fill out this here form and take a seat over there.  

Good news South Carolina, you just put Covid-19 patients on ventilators in front of a firing squad...you don't have to double count their deaths.  It's just good ole' fashion Southern Justice...Capital Punishment style!  

Edited May 6, 2021 by Lobo

[TheStoicPaisano 9918]

8 hours ago, Michael Knight said:

 

[956 Worldwide 34637]

5 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

Honestly, this is probably more humane than lethal injection. 

It's far more humane than lethal injection, which is a procedure done to make the executioners feel humane and not ease the suffering of the condemned. I'm not under any pretense that the SC legislature had that in mind when they approved it.

I am against the death penalty even though I'll admit to feeling an emotional inclination to defend it when I hear of especially horrific crimes.  But if we are to keep it, I would argue that the firing squad or guillotine (not public) should not be options but mandatory.  Firstly, they are almost certainly more humane and foolproof than any toxic drug cocktail.  Second, lethal injection is a grotesque parody of a medical procedure that allows the state and implementer cover what they are doing with the veneer of sanitation and time.  The state and its agents should be forced to bear, viscerally, the weight of taking a human life. And if you can't find anyone qualified to take that job, that says something about the punishment.  The overlap between people with the ethics and professionalism we should require of an executioner and those who might want to be Jack Ketch is vanishingly small. 

Edited May 6, 2021 by 956 Worldwide

[Doc Sam Beckett 5790]

7 hours ago, Lobo said:

The Palmetto State.  Sure we were the last state to get adequate Covid-19 testing, anti-body testing, and the vaccine drug.  But that's because our pharma testing procurement team was busy trying to get lethal injection drugs.  But now that we found a bunch of bullets, we can get back to the pharma thing.  Now...what's this Covid-19 thing and what kinda tests and shots we talking about here?  I'll need you to fill out this here form and take a seat over there.  

Good news South Carolina, you just put Covid-19 patients on ventilators in front of a firing squad...you don't have to double count their deaths.  It's just good ole' fashion Southern Justice...Capital Punishment style!  

Hey South Carolina is creative, if nothing else. A disgusting cockroach? Let's call it a palmetto bug 

[gmr548 16569]

Yeah, so about that, . . . 
I was maybe a touch overserved during the EEF gala.  So at one point at dinner I very loudly stated to one of our dinner companions, "There's no fucking way I'm voting for some limey bastard named 'Nigel;' we fought an entire Revolution so we wouldn't be led by limey bastards named 'Nigel.'"
My wife firmly grabbed my arm and whispered, "lower your goddamned voice, he's at the next table over."  At that point, I started to quietly sing "Yankee Doodle."

[atomheartbevo 89582]

By the way, I am by no means am saying that Trump doesn't like fascists or fascism, and this his followers wouldn't go full-on fascist.

He's just not putting in the work to cultivate them, and the Charlie Kirks, Ben Shapiros, Tucker Carlsons, MTGs, and Rafael Cruz's are doing a piss-poor job of keeping them riled up and actively doing shit.  As I said, I think the Jan 6th arrests, ratting each other out, etc. have taken their toll.

I'd be a lot more concerned if he, after he left D.C., fixed up his plane, and started flying around the country, holding rallies, getting his followers to actually do shit, and actively campaigning/rallying in liberal strongholds.  

I'd be really concerned if he was truly trying to lead the GOP. Instead, he is driving wedges into it from all different angles, whether it's pushing Turtle to the side, or railing against people like Liz Cheney. He's Hell-bent on diverting money from its coffers into his PACs. In short, he's doing what a world-class grifter would do - he's going to bleed it of as much money as he can.

He's a sad old man hanging out at his resort, who seems more interested in taking down Republicans who wronged him, and raising money, then actively leading a political movement.  He's putting out little memos through his staff on twitter, bitching mostly about Republicans who didn't do enough for him.

Because he's discovered he can raise tens of millions of dollars without raising a finger.  Now he just has to figure out how to get it from his PACs to Trump bank accounts.

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

6 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

He's just not putting in the work to cultivate them, and the Charlie Kirks, Ben Shapiros, Tucker Carlsons, MTGs, and Rafael Cruz's are doing a piss-poor job of keeping them riled up and actively doing shit.  As I said, I think the Jan 6th arrests, ratting each other out, etc. have taken their toll.

Pretty sure one of my neighbors was in cahoots with some of the NC law enforcement officers who have been arrested and relieved of their duties. My biggest reason for thinking so is that his time on his backyard gun range has been reduced by more than 95% since last fall. Hardly ever shoots at all, and when he does, it sounds more like he's scaring off coyotes than it does that he's hammering the tin cans like he used to do.

I live at the corner of hippie-dippy-land and Trump central, so I get to witness on a daily basis the relative energy of the two camps. And Trumpland is pretty lethargic at the moment. None of last Fall's and the first week of January's energy. None at all. It is a reason for cautious optimism. I would emphasize the caution, though, as there is nothing scientific about it, and one should never turn one's back on an armed fascist.

[MissingInAction 24960]

Nihilism is the only way to maintain my sanity these days. At least its an ethos.

[Walser 1109]

12 minutes ago, MissingInAction said:

Nihilism is the only way to maintain my sanity these days. At least its an ethos.

Akshully...

[Cousin Strawberry 1261]

12 hours ago, Js1 said:

Don’t think it’s been used in over a decade there 

Troy Kell is next in line to be executed by firing squad in Utah.

[Ojo Rojo 1929]

Not sure if this is the right thread, but this legislation in Texas making it easier to open carry without a license?  I'm sorry, but I just don't get it.  The solution to gun violence is to make it easier for everyone to carry guns?

If one of my children is killed in a mass shooting or as an innocent bystander in some kind of shootout involving a gun nut, I would hold anyone who supports this personally responsible.

[SydneyCarton 47990]

Just now, Ojo Rojo said:

Not sure if this is the right thread, but this legislation in Texas making it easier to open carry without a license?  I'm sorry, but I just don't get it.  The solution to gun violence is to make it easier for everyone to carry guns?

If one of my children is killed in a mass shooting or as an innocent bystander in some kind of shootout involving a gun nut, I would hold anyone who supports this personally responsible.

I mean, I don't think you can say "easier." That implies there are restrictions, and something would make them easier. Well technically true, in this scenario I feel like going from "some restrictions" to "absolutely zero restrictions whatsoever" needs a different kind of term to describe what is happening. Moving a basketball rim from 10 to 8 makes it easier to dunk. Moving it to 6 makes me think we need to redefine what "dunking" means. 

The good news is you'll have approximately 15 million people in Texas you can hold personally responsible. 

[wildcat09 29323]

3 hours ago, Walden Ponderer said:

Pretty sure one of my neighbors was in cahoots with some of the NC law enforcement officers who have been arrested and relieved of their duties. My biggest reason for thinking so is that his time on his backyard gun range has been reduced by more than 95% since last fall. Hardly ever shoots at all, and when he does, it sounds more like he's scaring off coyotes than it does that he's hammering the tin cans like he used to do.

I live at the corner of hippie-dippy-land and Trump central, so I get to witness on a daily basis the relative energy of the two camps. And Trumpland is pretty lethargic at the moment. None of last Fall's and the first week of January's energy. None at all. It is a reason for cautious optimism. I would emphasize the caution, though, as there is nothing scientific about it, and one should never turn one's back on an armed fascist.

Any downtime is good and gives us an opportunity to address the root problems, but it doesn't mean things are over. American fascism isn't defeated. It won't be defeated if we beat it in 2022 and it won't be defeated if we beat it in 2024.

The beer hall putsch failed in 1923 and Hitler was sentenced to 5 years in prison for treason (though he only served 9 months). That didn't stop the rise of the nazi party, it just delayed it a bit. Despite being convicted of treason, Hitler was named chancellor ten years later.

The danger of fascism isn't from the footsoldiers that stormed the Capitol on 1/6. They're replaceable. The danger is from their supporters and, perhaps even moreso, from those who may not enthusiastically support fascism but when confronted with the choice between fascism and actual democracy, prefer fascism. Those people aren't going anywhere. All it takes is someone to step in as the "leader" and, while not just anyone can do it successfully, they would have no problem replacing Trump with someone else they think is as well or better suited for that role. Having a leader is more important than who the leader is. 

Edited May 6, 2021 by wildcat09

[Brisketexan 104906]

25 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Any downtime is good and gives us an opportunity to address the root problems, but it doesn't mean things are over. American fascism isn't defeated. It won't be defeated if we beat it in 2022 and it won't be defeated if we beat it in 2024.

The beer hall putsch failed in 1923 and Hitler was sentenced to 5 years in prison for treason (though he only served 9 months). That didn't stop the rise of the nazi party, it just delayed it a bit. Despite being convicted of treason, Hitler was named chancellor ten years later.

The danger of fascism isn't from the footsoldiers that stormed the Capitol on 1/6. They're replaceable. The danger is from their supporters and, perhaps even moreso, from those who may not enthusiastically support fascism but when confronted with the choice between fascism and actual democracy, prefer fascism. Those people aren't going anywhere. All it takes is someone to step in as the "leader" and, while not just anyone can do it successfully, they would have no problem replacing Trump with someone else they think is as well or better suited for that role. Having a leader is more important than who the leader is. 

A post by someone who has read even a short account of how this shit works historically.

The prevailing attitude here is that January 6 was a big nothing, and that we're paranoid for suggesting that worse is yet to come.  Yet every historical example tells us 1) Jan 6 was a watershed moment, and 2) worse is yet to come.

[Js1 85204]

1914-1918 - World War 1

1923 - failed Beer Hall Putsch

1929 - Stock Market crash and a global depression

1933 - Hitler named Chancellor of the German Reich

 

2009-2017 - Culture Wars

2021 - failed insurrection

2027 - ???

2031 - ????

[Hookah Horns 3083]

17 hours ago, UpperWestside said:

 I am also no better than anyone in the death cult. 

Well, I sure as fuck am. 

[Francisco 2.0 32379]

3 minutes ago, Js1 said:

2027 - ???

2031 - ????

 

We really need the aliens from ID4 to show up to just put us as a country out of our misery.  Lord knows their arrival wouldn't be any kind of uniting force as portrayed, because the MAGA and Q folk would be convinced it was fake as it was obliterating whatever city they happened to be living in.

 

[wildcat09 29323]

5 minutes ago, Js1 said:

1914-1918 - World War 1

1923 - failed Beer Hall Putsch

1929 - Stock Market crash and a global depression

1933 - Hitler named Chancellor of the German Reich

 

2009-2017 - Culture Wars

2021 - failed insurrection

2027 - ???

2031 - ????

Wouldn't it be some shit if our equivalent of WW1 for Germany really turns out to have just been a black guy getting elected President?

[Js1 85204]

1 minute ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

We really need the aliens from ID4 to show up to just put us as a country out of our misery.  Lord knows their arrival wouldn't be any kind of uniting force as portrayed, because the MAGA and Q folk would be convinced it was fake as it was obliterating whatever city they happened to be living in. gladly let them take over if a Democrat was president.

 

fify. 

 

Just now, wildcat09 said:

Wouldn't it be some shit if our equivalent of WW1 for Germany really turns out to have just been a black guy getting elected President?

You know it was for them.  That's all it took.

[Hookah Horns 3083]

3 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

We really need the aliens from ID4 to show up to just put us as a country out of our misery.  Lord knows their arrival wouldn't be any kind of uniting force as portrayed, because the MAGA and Q folk would be convinced it was fake as it was obliterating whatever city they happened to be living in.

 

I'm pretty confident they'd be conspiring with the aliens. 

[Francisco 2.0 32379]

Just now, wildcat09 said:

Wouldn't it be some shit if our equivalent of WW1 for Germany really turns out to have just been a black guy getting elected President?

To be more exact, it was the black guy roasting one specific white guy in 2011 at the White House Correspondents party.

 

[JimmyJames 12271]

3 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

We really need the aliens from ID4 to show up to just put us as a country out of our misery.  Lord knows their arrival wouldn't be any kind of uniting force as portrayed, because the MAGA and Q folk would be convinced it was fake as it was obliterating whatever city they happened to be living in.

 

Actually what we need to do is throw trumps fat criminal ass in prison for his numerous crimes then throw away the key.

His supporters can then bitch all day long on Facebook and foxnews but when they cross the line and try to ransack the capitol again or otherwise act like criminals give them the trump treatment too and throw their ass in prison. Tired of pandering to these assholes. Fuck them. 

[Francisco 2.0 32379]

Coffee.  Because Starbucks is just too liberal.   

https://www.vox.com/the-goods/22412478/coffee-partisan-right-wing-conservative-grounds-black-rifle

 

Quote

Cliff Gephart doesn’t drink coffee, but he didn’t let that stop him from opening Conservative Grounds last year. You can find his first coffee shop at the end of a Tampa Bay area strip mall, across the parking lot from an Arby’s. The store’s decal lays out the offerings inside: “COFFEE, DONUTS, PASTRIES,” and of course, “PATRIOTISM”; The slogan underneath the logo reads, “The RIGHT COFFEE FOR AMERICA.”

 

Quote

The interior looks surprisingly cozy; Conservative Grounds has a homey blackboard menu, a smattering of wooden supper chairs, and an overflowing bounty of MAGA merch. Presidential portraits of both Donald Trump and Ronald Reagan gaze over from the rightmost wall, and cardboard standees of the most recent former First Couple beckon toward a selfie-ready re-creation of the Oval Office in the back. Donald Trump Jr. even paid the store a visit and recorded a video that now rests on the Conservative Grounds website. “They’re playing Fox News instead of the Communist News Network,” he says, to a flicker of laughter, gesturing to a television near the bar.

 

Quote

Gephart’s creation brings to mind the cheeky themed restaurants of Disneyland or the jousting knights of Medieval Times — businesses built to appease bored tourists in search of a technicolor lunch. The only difference is that Conservative Grounds doesn’t deviate far from American reality. After all, 74 million people voted for Donald Trump in 2020, and unlike Gephart, many of them drink coffee.

 

Spoiler

“We don’t consider ourselves as a coffee shop, we refer to ourselves as a camaraderie shop. Because there’s a lot more camaraderie going around in Conservative Grounds than there is coffee,” says Gephart, in a phone call with Vox. “Often people say, ‘Oh, you’re a conservative coffee shop, why don’t somebody open a liberal coffee shop?’ And I say, ‘They have. They all are. That doesn’t need to be addressed.’” 

The culture war that has consumed the global discourse has manifested in all sorts of odd shapes and sizes since 2016, but nobody predicted that the battle would eventually be fought in our morning brews.

Conservative Grounds is not an outlier. The Trump administration, and the emerging MAGA faction of the political constituency, has given rise to a number of different coffee shops and brands running Gephart’s playbook. (“I think the success [of our store] has probably spurred some copycats,” he says.) 

The most prominent conservative coffee business is perhaps the Black Rifle Coffee Company, a subscription-based roaster founded in 2014 by an ownership group composed of former military personnel, which earned $163 million in revenue in 2020. Black Rifle got national attention shortly after Trump’s inauguration, when they announced that the company would be hiring 10,000 veterans — a retort to Starbucks, which announced that the company would be bringing on 10,000 refugees in response to the Muslim ban. (Black Rifle also caught the ire of certain MAGA corners last year, when it divested itself of any connection to Kyle Rittenhouse.)

Black Rifle does not make many overt references to the former president in their marketing material, but counterparts like Thrasher Coffee in Hiram, Georgia, do. Thrasher’s latest roast is called the #47 Blend, a follow-up to their #45 Blend, which is aimed at those holding out hope that Donald Trump will return to the White House for a second presidency in 2024. (“Tired of liberal Starbucks? All other coffees are FIRED!” reads the inscription on the online storefront.) Covfefe Coffee, a shop in Maine that closed shortly after the election, adopted a similar naming mechanism to Thrasher. Their inventory included the MAGA Dark Roast, Drain The Swamp Medium Roast, and Red Pill Light Roast. Conventional wisdom says coffee does not need to be packaged with a confrontational political persona to move units, but there are at least a handful of businesses that disagree.

The more you dive into this niche, the more it becomes clear that one of the unifying bonds between all of the regressive coffeehouses is a deep umbrage at Starbucks. Gephart tells me he first came up with the idea for Conservative Grounds after an incident in 2019, when a Starbucks employee asked six police officers to leave a location in Tempe, Arizona. “I decided that shouldn’t happen in America,” he says. “That’s the genesis.” (Starbucks would later apologize for the ousting.) 

That antipathy might seem paradoxical — the Seattle mainstay has traditionally enjoyed a long, prosperous history of relative social inertness — though there is an argument to be made that Starbucks has always been slyly oriented toward rank-and-file Democrats. The company has taken progressive stances on gay marriage and gun control in the past, and they’ve sold plenty of Norah Jones CDs. But there is nothing about their brand identity that orbits anywhere close to the boldness of Conservative Grounds, which has held concealed-carry permit classes for $49.95 on weekday evenings. (Even Howard Schultz, Starbucks’s former CEO and prodigal liberal darling, has entrenched himself as a staunch centrist.) However, Starbucks has been beset by constant, keening Trumpian grievance over the last four years, initially spurred on by a boycott campaign over the company’s muted Christmas cups. Slowly but surely, coffee became a wedge issue in America, and an easy target for the relentless MAGA grift.

“Starbucks as a polarizing brand is a more recent development. So this is interesting to see. But people have always liked a good opponent. It’s always impactful when you find a good foil, when you can compare two things and put forward an argument,” says Tim Calkins, a professor of marketing at Northwestern University. 

Calkins notes that coffee is an easy commodity to sell. It doesn’t expire, benefits from a wide appeal, and can be sourced from all over the world. That flexibility offers any enterprising reactionary a canvas to broadcast a bespoke set of values that have nothing to do with the blends themselves. “You give the coffee a name that has lots of meaning, and suddenly, you’ve done it,” says Calkins. “It’s a perfect product to express a differentiation of political views.” 

That was one of the most pressing questions I had for the MAGA coffee roasters: Is there anything about their flavor profiles, tannins, or mouthfeel that could reliably be identified as conservative? Or at least, as conservative as the packaging itself? 

“We call our flavor profiles bold — they are all very strong and many say they don’t even need cream and sugar in them,” says Liz Martin of Thrasher Coffee, when reached over email. “It is our messaging that is more or less conservative, not our delicious roasts.” 

Clearly, these baristas understand what they’re really selling, as they hand over a piping hot mug filled to the brim with #47 Blend.

Thrasher, it should be said, merchants a wide swath of MAGA ephemera beyond coffee. Like Conservative Grounds, they too have an apparel store that caters to every flavor of Trump/Pence outrage. The most recent addition to the catalog appears to be a raglan shirt emblazoned with the red-and-white striped top hat from The Cat in the Hat. “Come and take it,” reads the words printed just below the logo — a reference to the ongoing, exhausting debate surrounding certain racially insensitive Dr. Seuss books. That is the core gambit that empowers MAGA profiteering; to make money by appeasing the New Right, one must be in constant search of the latest cultural combat zone, and be agile enough to jump on the bandwagon before it’s too late. Coffee, children’s books, pinto beans, it doesn’t matter. The substance of the product was entirely immaterial during the advent of Trump, and he continues to cast a shadow over so many of our consumer decisions. Gephart himself is a minor Facebook celebrity with over 22,000 subscribers attuned to his standard MAGA pontifications. Just as he said, people in this sector are offering camaraderie over anything else. 

If there is to be an eventual disentanglement between US brands and US politics, it likely will not come in the short term. Within the last few years every company — not just niche, conservative coffee roasters — was forced to take an ideological stance. Last summer, in the midst of the George Floyd protests, countless mainstream brands filled their social feeds with messages of racial consciousness. Some were heartfelt, many were hackneyed, but the overarching theme was clear; there was no option to sit on the sidelines anymore. That’s a curious development, especially considering how long and hard commercial enterprises have worked to posture themselves as neutrally as possible. But something about Trump morphed the ethereal quality of Washington legislation into an urgent element of identity for so many Americans. We have never been more politically engaged, and therefore, never more willing to shop along those partisan lines.

“Brands really struggled with Donald Trump, and how to navigate Donald Trump. You could see companies thinking about every word they said, and attempt to play down the middle when it was impossible to play down the middle,” says Calkins. “But Joe Biden hasn’t been the polarizing figure that Trump was. Brands aren’t struggling to navigate Joe Biden. The real question is what comes next. Will politics become less polarizing? Or will the country fracture in ways that force brands to take a side?”

A lot of Democrats are hoping for the former, as the prime MAGA agitators remain banished from Twitter and Biden continues to posture himself on a platform of unity. But the divisions of the last four years are drawn deep. With Trump plotting his own social media platform and newly radicalized firebrands like Reps. Marjorie Taylor Greene and Madison Cawthorn in Congress, it is clear that the unsteady peace that Calkins speaks about is tenuous. The culture war continues, one mug at a time.

 

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

9 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

Coffee.  Because Starbucks is just too liberal.   

I strongly suspect Freedom Roast will fare just about as well as Freedom Fries did.

[Hefeweizen 5307]

The problem with most “conservative” merchandise is that it sucks.   Someone gave me some black rifle coffee and it was basically Folgers.  No thanks.

 

The Libs must  use their sweet tears to make delicious foods.  

[Longhorn_Fan68 33857]

Just now, Hefeweizen said:

The problem with most “conservative” merchandise is that it sucks.   Someone gave me some black rifle coffee and it was basically Folgers.  No thanks.

 

The Libs must  use their sweet tears to make delicious foods.  

as a pussy liberal, why yes, you have us figured out. tears are the secret ingredient.

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

4 minutes ago, Hefeweizen said:

The problem with most “conservative” merchandise is that it sucks.

To be fair, that's probably because most of it is made in China.

[Neonmoon 38129]

10 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

It's far more humane than lethal injection, which is a procedure done to make the executioners feel humane and not ease the suffering of the condemned. I'm not under any pretense that the SC legislature had that in mind when they approved it.

I am against the death penalty even though I'll admit to feeling an emotional inclination to defend it when I hear of especially horrific crimes.  But if we are to keep it, I would argue that the firing squad or guillotine (not public) should not be options but mandatory.  Firstly, they are almost certainly more humane and foolproof than any toxic drug cocktail.  Second, lethal injection is a grotesque parody of a medical procedure that allows the state and implementer cover what they are doing with the veneer of sanitation and time.  The state and its agents should be forced to bear, viscerally, the weight of taking a human life. And if you can't find anyone qualified to take that job, that says something about the punishment.  The overlap between people with the ethics and professionalism we should require of an executioner and those who might want to be Jack Ketch is vanishingly small. 

I’m against the death penalty for a myriad set of reasons, but if we’re going to have it, make it cheap. Guillotine works. What about an air gun? We kill cows with an air gun. It’s easy and effective.

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

2 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

I’m against the death penalty for a myriad set of reasons, but if we’re going to have it, make it cheap. Guillotine works. What about an air gun? We kill cows with an air gun. It’s easy and effective.

[Sawbonz 27514]

1 hour ago, wildcat09 said:

Any downtime is good and gives us an opportunity to address the root problems, but it doesn't mean things are over. American fascism isn't defeated. It won't be defeated if we beat it in 2022 and it won't be defeated if we beat it in 2024.

The beer hall putsch failed in 1923 and Hitler was sentenced to 5 years in prison for treason (though he only served 9 months). That didn't stop the rise of the nazi party, it just delayed it a bit. Despite being convicted of treason, Hitler was named chancellor ten years later.

The danger of fascism isn't from the footsoldiers that stormed the Capitol on 1/6. They're replaceable. The danger is from their supporters and, perhaps even moreso, from those who may not enthusiastically support fascism but when confronted with the choice between fascism and actual democracy, prefer fascism. Those people aren't going anywhere. All it takes is someone to step in as the "leader" and, while not just anyone can do it successfully, they would have no problem replacing Trump with someone else they think is as well or better suited for that role. Having a leader is more important than who the leader is. 

You realize Germans were literally starving to death prior to Hitler’s rise right? And not “any leader” would have had the same outcome he did. Even with his unique “gifts” chance played more of a role in his rise to power than his scheming. 
 

There will always be people who prefer authoritarian rule (and this is not a right / left thing). If I were betting I would put my money on atom heart bevo’s prediction over brisket’s 

[Js1 85204]

7 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

You realize Germans were literally starving to death prior to Hitler’s rise right? And not “any leader” would have had the same outcome he did. Even with his unique “gifts” chance played more of a role in his rise to power than his scheming. 
 

There will always be people who prefer authoritarian rule (and this is not a right / left thing). If I were betting I would put my money on atom heart bevo’s prediction over brisket’s 

I do "kind of" agree with you and atomheartbevo.  Germany had a lot of circumstances prior to 1923/1933 that led to Hitler/fascism - World War I -> the rest of the free world going NLAA on Germany afterwards and cratering their economy + Spanish Flu pandemic -> Great Depression

Nothing like that has happened yet to us.  But it only takes one little thing to set it off.  In the modern age, it likely wouldn't be a world war.  Hopefully it's not something we haven't though of yet. 

Edited May 6, 2021 by Js1

[Run Run Run Punt 145]

On 5/4/2021 at 8:17 PM, Fletch said:

Well, whenever he goes on those diatribes, I let him go for a bit then am like “yeah whatever dude. You see Texas got a grand transfer from Bama? Between what UT baseball is doing, what Sark is throwing together and the Beard bore, man! It’s gonna be a fun few years!” 
 

He actually thinks 9/11 was an inside job and Cheney and Bush were the most corrupt potus and vp we’ve ever had all while thinking Obama was by far the worst President we’ve ever had. Then like 3 weeks into Biden’s time in the White House, he was like “all he’s doing is piggy backing off Trumps covid plan and Trumps this and that.” Then he thinks Jen Psaki is a terrible press Secretary compared to the last lying cunt we had. Oh and this one truly takes the cake. He thinks Joe Biden is racist. Yeah. He thinks Joe and Jill are hardcore racist. He loves Ted Cruz. thinks DeSantist is by far the best governor in the county. He loves Mitch McConnell. He thinks AOC is an idiot. And somehow the left has gone too far. I’m yet to hear one argument that the left has gone too far but apparently we have and “this is war!” Oh and thinks the insurrection where white trash were literally trying to murder Pence, Pelosi, AOC and god knows who else was nothing compared to the damage and the looting the left and BLM and Antifa has done over the last year. We’re so fucked 

I agree with the bolded parts.

Desantis has done an incredible job compared to his peers. 

The destruction/looting by BLM and Antifa was way worse than the Jan 6. attack. 

These are facts. 

[Neonmoon 38129]

Putting on ignore 

[Run Run Run Punt 145]

On 5/4/2021 at 8:22 PM, Gil Bang said:

Haha. “I like anal...let’s do this”
 

 

I like the cut of her jib

 

I guess the real question is why can't people ask politely "Hey you need to put a mask on in the store or else you need to leave."

That is the problem with this mask stuff.  No one, on either side, knows how to communicate anymore. 

[DigglerontheHoof 21140]

5 minutes ago, Run Run Run Punt said:

I agree with the bolded parts.

Desantis has done an incredible job compared to his peers. 

The destruction/looting by BLM and Antifa was way worse than the Jan 6. attack. 

These are facts. 

[Sawbonz 27514]

6 minutes ago, Js1 said:

I do "kind of" agree with you and atomheartbevo.  Germany had a lot of circumstances prior to 1923/1933 that led to Hitler/fascism - World War I -> the rest of the free world going NLAA on Germany afterwards and cratering their economy + Spanish Flu pandemic -> Great Depression

Nothing like that has happened yet to us.  But it only takes one little thing to set it off.  In the modern age, it likely wouldn't be a world war.  Hopefully it's not something we haven't though of yet. 

Yep. 
 

or we could get the next Stalin or Pol Pot

[Red Five 40776]

[Js1 85204]

I don't usually neg in CR, but calling BLM/Antifa "worse" than literally trying to stop the counting of the electoral votes and execute the sitting VP and Speaker - 

Yeah, fuck off you fucking moron. 

[Sawbonz 27514]

9 minutes ago, Run Run Run Punt said:

I agree with the bolded parts.

Desantis has done an incredible job compared to his peers. 

The destruction/looting by BLM and Antifa was way worse than the Jan 6. attack. 

These are facts. 

You just going to leave the work of white supremacists over the last 4 years out of your calculus? Some people are saying they are “very good people”

[Guest Lobo]

34 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Yep. 
 

or we could get the next Stalin or Pol Pot

Pol Pot just doesn't get the credit he deserves.  The guy had a singular mission and he executed on that vision statement to a "T"  

"Mr. Pot.  What is your end goal?  A new form of government?  Acquiring new lands by force?  Indoctrination of your peoples?  Revolutions of Agriculture, Technology, Commerce, Societal Structure, Religion?  What makes Pol Pot, tick?"

Pol, "Murder."

"You mean to say you'll be using murder as one tool in your arsenal to achieve your broader objectives?"

Pol, "No, that's the whole thing.  Just murder.  Like murder for the sake of murder.  I mean...yeah...I guess at a large scale.  If I'm talking 30,000' view, genocide."  

"So mass murder, to the point of genocide, in order to achieve that other list of objectives."

Pol, "No, what the fuck don't you get?  It's just the mass murder for me.  We have 7 million people.  In 4 years, I'm gonna kill 2 million of them.  I'm gonna eliminate 30% of the population of a mid-sized country between two Summer Olympics.  You realize how fucking hard that's gonna be to do with the UN and the Geneva Convention and all the Nuremberg hand-wringers and fucking satellite surveillance of mass burial grounds.  If you give it some critical thought, I think you'll see why this is my jam.  My one purpose.  Thank you for letting me speak my truth."  

 

[wildcat09 29323]

47 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

You realize Germans were literally starving to death prior to Hitler’s rise right? And not “any leader” would have had the same outcome he did. Even with his unique “gifts” chance played more of a role in his rise to power than his scheming. 
 

There will always be people who prefer authoritarian rule (and this is not a right / left thing). If I were betting I would put my money on atom heart bevo’s prediction over brisket’s 

It's not a perfect 1:1 comparison, but it doesn't need to be. And you're probably not fully grasping the economic shit we've had to go through ourselves the last 15 years. 

Yes, Germany had really serious economic problems (moreso in the 20s than the early 30s when the nazis actually took power), but that wasn't all. Germany underwent a lot of social change during the interwar period as well. The nature of work itself changed, as more jobs shifted from manual labor to service or office work. Germany became a global center of art, science, and education. It was a very chaotic period, socially/culturally speaking. Hell, the first real advocacy for gay and transgender rights occurred in Berlin in this period.

Those changes scared the shit out of conservatives and they turned to fascism. Not just anyone can harness that, but it's not the case that it has to be exactly the right person at exactly the right time. When social changes scare conservatives into becoming fascist, they look for a fascist leader. They'll find someone to latch on to. The real question is if they'll all find the same person or if enough of them will disagree about who that person should be so that they splinter.

[Sawbonz 27514]

13 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Pol Pot just doesn't get the credit he deserves.  The guy had a singular mission and he executed on that vision statement to a "T"  

"Mr. Pot.  What is your end goal?  A new form of government?  Acquiring new lands by force?  Indoctrination of your peoples?  Revolutions of Agriculture, Technology, Commerce, Societal Structure, Religion?  What makes Pol Pot, tick?"

Pol, "Murder."

"You mean to say you'll be using murder as one tool in your arsenal to achieve your broader objectives?"

Pol, "No, that's the whole thing.  Just murder.  Like murder for the sake of murder.  I mean...yeah...I guess at a large scale.  If I'm talking 30,000' view, genocide."  

"So mass murder, to the point of genocide, in order to achieve that other list of objectives."

Pol, "No, what the fuck don't you get?  It's just the mass murder for me.  We have 7 million people.  In 4 years, I'm gonna kill 2 million of them.  I'm gonna eliminate 30% of the population of a mid-sized country between two Summer Olympics.  You realize how fucking hard that's gonna be to do with the UN and the Geneva Convention and all the Nuremberg hand-wringers and fucking satellite surveillance of mass burial grounds.  If you give it some critical thought, I think you'll see why this is my jam.  My one purpose.  Thank you for letting me speak my truth."  

 

He was the Richland Springs Coyotes of dictators

[Ojo Rojo 1929]

I don't think it's accurate to draw a lot of parallels between 1930's Germany and 2020's USA.  There are a few similarities, sure, but the movement in the USA today is its own thing.  I'm still not too worried about it.  Maybe I'm naive, but this is like a cartoon version of a fascist movement.  Just like Trump was a cartoon version of an autocrat. The people in the movement are clowns, just like Trump.  They are masquerading as insurrectionists, but it's more like a reenactment.  They are pure-D dumbasses.  I don't think the movement would exist at all but for the internet.  The internet has allowed misinformation to happen in ways we've never experienced.  I think we will learn over time.  There's a lot of cultural change right now and people are reacting to that too.  The country is getting less white.  Dumb whites feel threatened.  We just had our first black president.  Trump was a backlash of that as much as anything.  I'm still blown away that we are where we are.  I still can't believe that Donald fucking Trump was the president of the United States.  I can't believe Jan. 6th happened.  I can't believe 75 million people voted for DJT after all the shit.  But, we did ultimately get it right the last go round and voted his shitheel ass out.  That is a reason for at least a little optimism and faith in humanity.

[Captainant 27572]

Just now, Ojo Rojo said:

I don't think it's accurate to draw a lot of parallels between 1930's Germany and 2020's USA.  There are a few similarities, sure, but the movement in the USA today is its own thing.  I'm still not too worried about it.  Maybe I'm naive, but this is like a cartoon version of a fascist movement.  Just like Trump was a cartoon version of an autocrat. The people in the movement are clowns, just like Trump.  They are masquerading as insurrectionists, but it's more like a reenactment.  They are pure-D dumbasses.  I don't think the movement would exist at all but for the internet.  The internet has allowed misinformation to happen in ways we've never experienced.  I think we will learn over time.  There's a lot of cultural change right now and people are reacting to that too.  The country is getting less white.  Dumb whites feel threatened.  We just had our first black president.  Trump was a backlash of that as much as anything.  I'm still blown away that we are where we are.  I still can't believe that Donald fucking Trump was the president of the United States.  I can't believe Jan. 6th happened.  I can't believe 75 million people voted for DJT after all the shit.  But, we did ultimately get it right the last go round and voted his shitheel ass out.  That is a reason for at least a little optimism and faith in humanity.

You should read up on how fascist insurrections actually happen. It's a common pattern that the first attempt is a clown show that's laughably inept, followed by insufficient punishment/sanction for the insurrection attempt, followed by a second and successful attempt. The beer hall putsch isn't that far off from what happened on Jan 6th - both had active duty and police military helping and hindering the insurrection, both featured a concerted disinformation campaign to rile up the brownshirts and the redhats into eventual action, and both failed to sufficiently punish the instigator of the insurrection.

History rarely repeats itself, but it usually rhymes. We're in a dangerous period, and historically speaking, on the clock for an authoritarian/autocrat to rise to power from the far right.

[Sawbonz 27514]

6 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

It's not a perfect 1:1 comparison, but it doesn't need to be. And you're probably not fully grasping the economic shit we've had to go through ourselves the last 15 years. 

Yes, Germany had really serious economic problems (moreso in the 20s than the early 30s when the nazis actually took power), but that wasn't all. Germany underwent a lot of social change during the interwar period as well. The nature of work itself changed, as more jobs shifted from manual labor to service or office work. Germany became a global center of art, science, and education. It was a very chaotic period, socially/culturally speaking. Hell, the first real advocacy for gay and transgender rights occurred in Berlin in this period.

Those changes scared the shit out of conservatives and they turned to fascism. Not just anyone can harness that, but it's not the case that it has to be exactly the right person at exactly the right time. When social changes scare conservatives into becoming fascist, they look for a fascist leader. They'll find someone to latch on to. The real question is if they'll all find the same person or if enough of them will disagree about who that person should be so that they splinter.

It took a perfect storm to get hitler.  A very strong push toward communism led many of the bourgeoisie to look the other way until it was too late. People were starving. There was hyperinflation, and punitive austerity measures were put  in place. The military was a shambles. The leader of the country was a 90 year old with cancer. 
 

Is it possible things get that bad here and someone from the far right can take advantage of the circumstances as hitler did?  Of course. Is it likely? Of course not. 

[wildcat09 29323]

The original fascists were also giant fucking clowns. And every version of fascism is "its own thing." Italian fascism, Spanish fascism, and German fascism were all different. Ours will be as well.

What's scariest about ours though, is how many comparisons can actually be made to Weimar Germany. If you don't do the reading it's easy to think that it can't really be that similar, because this is America, this is 100 years later, etc. And that's not unsound reasoning. Things should be different here. But what's scary is how little difference there actually is. It's really eerie how many direct comparisons can be made.

The biggest differences are that many fewer of our fascists have combat experience and that our fascists actually lucked into political power before they could really figure out how what to do with it, so they lost it. Those are significant differences. But in terms of the economic issues and cultural changes that give rise to mass fascist sentiment? We're absolutely following in Weimar's footsteps. 

ETA: Another difference, as Sawbonz points out above, is that the Weimar government imposed crippling austerity measures against its citizens (as crippling sanctions were imposed against it), while we responded to our greatest economic threat with enormous stimulus that saved the economy. That is significant. But we're still going through some pretty perilous economic times and a lot of people are seriously struggling, even if we don't feel it ourselves or see much it it. Who knows how things will unfold when, for example, the crypto bubble pops?

Edited May 6, 2021 by wildcat09

[Brisketexan 104906]

18 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

It's not a perfect 1:1 comparison, but it doesn't need to be. And you're probably not fully grasping the economic shit we've had to go through ourselves the last 15 years. 

Yes, Germany had really serious economic problems (moreso in the 20s than the early 30s when the nazis actually took power), but that wasn't all. Germany underwent a lot of social change during the interwar period as well. The nature of work itself changed, as more jobs shifted from manual labor to service or office work. Germany became a global center of art, science, and education. It was a very chaotic period, socially/culturally speaking. Hell, the first real advocacy for gay and transgender rights occurred in Berlin in this period.

Those changes scared the shit out of conservatives and they turned to fascism. Not just anyone can harness that, but it's not the case that it has to be exactly the right person at exactly the right time. When social changes scare conservatives into becoming fascist, they look for a fascist leader. They'll find someone to latch on to. The real question is if they'll all find the same person or if enough of them will disagree about who that person should be so that they splinter.

Here's the problem with the optimistic approach of atomheart -- it doesn't matter how things actually ARE.  All that matters is how people BELIEVE they are, because belief is what motivates their behavior.  And the American fascist movement actually believes that we are teetering on the edge of going full-on communist, and they are absolutely willing to kill the Republic in order to save it.  Sure, they're delusional, wrong, and stupid....but none of that matters.  All that matters is the endpoint -- are they willing to support and/or take part in a fascist takeover, a violent one if it has to be?  Yep.  They are.

8 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

I don't think it's accurate to draw a lot of parallels between 1930's Germany and 2020's USA.  There are a few similarities, sure, but the movement in the USA today is its own thing.  I'm still not too worried about it.  Maybe I'm naive, but this is like a cartoon version of a fascist movement.  Just like Trump was a cartoon version of an autocrat. The people in the movement are clowns, just like Trump.  They are masquerading as insurrectionists, but it's more like a reenactment.  They are pure-D dumbasses.  I don't think the movement would exist at all but for the internet.  The internet has allowed misinformation to happen in ways we've never experienced.  I think we will learn over time.  There's a lot of cultural change right now and people are reacting to that too.  The country is getting less white.  Dumb whites feel threatened.  We just had our first black president.  Trump was a backlash of that as much as anything.  I'm still blown away that we are where we are.  I still can't believe that Donald fucking Trump was the president of the United States.  I can't believe Jan. 6th happened.  I can't believe 75 million people voted for DJT after all the shit.  But, we did ultimately get it right the last go round and voted his shitheel ass out.  That is a reason for at least a little optimism and faith in humanity.

ALL fascist movements are cartoonish.  Because their common thread is that they must be based on a stupid premise, championed by morons, and it's usually a path to power for a band of unqualified fuckups who would never otherwise come anywhere close  to the halls of power.  These aren't anomalies, they are consistent features.

2 minutes ago, Captainant said:

You should read up on how fascist insurrections actually happen. It's a common pattern that the first attempt is a clown show that's laughably inept, followed by insufficient punishment/sanction for the insurrection attempt, followed by a second and successful attempt. The beer hall putsch isn't that far off from what happened on Jan 6th - both had active duty and police military helping and hindering the insurrection, both featured a concerted disinformation campaign to rile up the brownshirts and the redhats into eventual action, and both failed to sufficiently punish the instigator of the insurrection.

History rarely repeats itself, but it usually rhymes. We're in a dangerous period, and historically speaking, on the clock for an authoritarian/autocrat to rise to power from the far right.

Yep.  And it's rhyming rather well.  Just because some of y'all don't like the sound of this particular song doesn't change the fact that it's shooting up the charts!

 

[Biff Tannen 45641]

17 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

I don't think it's accurate to draw a lot of parallels between 1930's Germany and 2020's USA.  There are a few similarities, sure, but the movement in the USA today is its own thing.  I'm still not too worried about it.  Maybe I'm naive, but this is like a cartoon version of a fascist movement.  Just like Trump was a cartoon version of an autocrat. The people in the movement are clowns, just like Trump.  They are masquerading as insurrectionists, but it's more like a reenactment.  They are pure-D dumbasses.  I don't think the movement would exist at all but for the internet.  The internet has allowed misinformation to happen in ways we've never experienced.  I think we will learn over time.  There's a lot of cultural change right now and people are reacting to that too.  The country is getting less white.  Dumb whites feel threatened.  We just had our first black president.  Trump was a backlash of that as much as anything.  I'm still blown away that we are where we are.  I still can't believe that Donald fucking Trump was the president of the United States.  I can't believe Jan. 6th happened.  I can't believe 75 million people voted for DJT after all the shit.  But, we did ultimately get it right the last go round and voted his shitheel ass out.  That is a reason for at least a little optimism and faith in humanity.

I'm with you all the way until the last sentence.  Nothing preceding that, including that we voted him out, is cause for optimism to me.  We never should have fucking been there to begin with.