The GQP: Trumpist Death Cult

[Anastasis 23699]

48 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Or the ones who say "I'm an independent and hate both parties but I vote Republican every single time and would never vote for a Democrat."

If you have voted for more than a single republican one time, you have voted for more republican candidates than I have. And there are democrat candidates that I would strongly consider voting for if they cleared the nomination process.

Edited August 16, 2019 by Anastasis

[hpslugga 4096]

1 hour ago, Ghost of LL said:

I'm not going to sit her and tell you that, having run an experiment twice and watching it fail, that we should continue running the experiment to see if one day it will succeed.  That's stupid.  I'm not sold on the Elizabeth Warren model.  And I'm steadfastly opposed to the Bernie Sanders model.  But it is correct to say that the Laffer model is a complete and total failure.

Then what model is it that you support?

[Brisketexan 106625]

6 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

Then what model is it that you support?

Emily seems nice....

[Nivek 17330]

Yep.
I was a George Will/Ronald Reagan/Al Laffer conservative.  I genuinely thought that if you cut taxes for the upper classes, then they would spend and invest and the economic result of that would be a net positive for the entire economy and everyone in it.  I mean, it looks good on paper.

I have always wondered why people believed this would work. There was no precedent for it. The money used to invest in a good idea/growth is not limited by tax rate but more by profitability/loan access. Credit access is another limiter but not really in the US.

[yoladu 4187]

14 hours ago, retread said:

 

Trumpian.

take a morsel and grossly misrepresent it in order to energize the rage machine.

 

look, no doubt, Rep Omar and Rep Tlaib have been critical of Israel. Omar in particular has made some inflammatory and insensitive remarks. It could be reasonably argued that they were anti-semetic. BUT..

to take that and say they HATE Israel and all Jewish People (Trump) and they want to DESTROY Israel (Graham) is a gross mischaracterization of reality and is bald calculated political asshattery.

Edited August 16, 2019 by yoladu

[Eastwood 4394]

It is time to realize that true conservatism is as unrealistic to execute as true communism. And modern American conservatism is now heading down a similar human rights path as communism.

[hpslugga 4096]

10 minutes ago, yoladu said:

Omar in particular has made some inflammatory and insensitive remarks. It could be reasonably argued that they were anti-semetic.

Such as?

[yoladu 4187]

35 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

Such as?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/02/11/its-all-about-benjamins-baby-ilhan-omar-again-accused-anti-semitism-over-tweets/

[softlynow 1893]

12 minutes ago, yoladu said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/02/11/its-all-about-benjamins-baby-ilhan-omar-again-accused-anti-semitism-over-tweets/

I still don’t get that one. Greed isn’t a trait peculiar to a negative stereotype of Jews. I get that they’re associated with money-exchanging occupations, but it just seems too much of a stretch to say that tweet was a slur. 

[hayden_horn 11401]

14 hours ago, JimmyJames said:

Yeah that’s not how I remember it. I recall Swam and Clear Lake Horn running wild in the Shaggy Cloak room and a consistent anti-Obama bent that went largely unchecked. Its why I largely avoided the place and never posted. It took the republicans electing a shithead like trump to actually bring balance to the place. Hence the rise of the so-called “Shaggy Liberal Cabal,” a term coined by swammy himself. 

Although I admit I only occasionally lurked and never posted at all until the rise of trump so I could be wrong. 

it wasn't just swam and clear lake. it was tahoe, it was escriva, it was that weird marvin the martian guy that shaggy conservatives went to bat for when i banned him for being a blatant troll. shaggy conservatives always accused (still do) me of moderation bias. they always said that shaggy was left-leaning. it really wasn't.

and the reason that most of the more intelligent conservative voices have either gone silent or shifted away from the republican party is that there is no real defense of what the current republican party represents. it's a reprehensible party. look at the behavior from mcconnell to lindsey graham, to our two odious texas senators, to our country's AG, our state's AG, and so many terrible republican representatives. 

it's the party of old white dudes.

 

[yoladu 4187]

8 minutes ago, softlynow said:

I still don’t get that one. Greed isn’t a trait peculiar to a negative stereotype of Jews. I get that they’re associated with money-exchanging occupations, but it just seems too much of a stretch to say that tweet was a slur. 

I don't disagree. i thought it was a bit of a stretch as well, but I figured maybe I was ignorant to it. I was open to being educated on how some people may have a strong negative reaction to it's use and implication.

[yoladu 4187]

10 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

it wasn't just swam and clear lake. it was tahoe, it was escriva, it was that weird marvin the martian guy that shaggy conservatives went to bat for when i banned him for being a blatant troll. shaggy conservatives always accused (still do) me of moderation bias. they always said that shaggy was left-leaning. it really wasn't.

and the reason that most of the more intelligent conservative voices have either gone silent or shifted away from the republican party is that there is no real defense of what the current republican party represents. it's a reprehensible party. look at the behavior from mcconnell to lindsey graham, to our two odious texas senators, to our country's AG, our state's AG, and so many terrible republican representatives. 

it's the party of old white dudes.

 

one of my favorite scenes from True Detective, Season 1.

[hpslugga 4096]

27 minutes ago, softlynow said:

I still don’t get that one. Greed isn’t a trait peculiar to a negative stereotype of Jews. I get that they’re associated with money-exchanging occupations, but it just seems too much of a stretch to say that tweet was a slur. 

Beat me to it. That comment in no way was anti-semitic. I mean hell, it's true for Saudi Arabia, it was true for Iran between 1953-1979, and it's true for a host of allies that we have/had over the years. Would any Republican or Democrat dare to accuse someone of anti-Arabism for denouncing the relationship we had with S.A. for being just about money? Any accusations of anti-Persianism for denouncing the relationship we had with Iran under the Shah for the same reason? Any accusations of anti-Indonesianism for denouncing our relationship with Suharto? Anti-Latinoism for denouncing Pinochet/Somoza/the Juntas? No. Only with Israel do we hear these chickenshit accusations of anti-semitism. That's special pleading, and fuck that noise.

The mainstream of the Democratic Party reprimanded her for it, but that's because they're a spineless group of cowards who view support from Israel as a mechanism towards shifting elections in their favor. We heard a lot about Russian interference in the election over the course of the Mueller investigation, but Russia's efforts were pennies on the dollar compared to Israel and Saudi Arabia...yet literally none of the establishment Democrats speak critically of it. I wonder why.

14 minutes ago, yoladu said:

I don't disagree. i thought it was a bit of a stretch as well, but I figured maybe I was ignorant to it. I was open to being educated on how some people may have a strong negative reaction to it's use and implication.

Just read Pelosi's comment and you'll understand the nature of their reaction. She said "Legitimate criticism of Israel’s policies is protected by the values of free speech and democratic debate that the United States and Israel share." It was completely disingenuous because 1) when have you ever heard of a Pelosi, Reid, Schumer, et al engaging in such monologues and 2) when one of their own has, when has it not been followed by baseless accusations of anti-semitism? It's a complete joke. She literally was saying "it's ok to criticize Israel, just don't criticize Israel."

Edited August 16, 2019 by hpslugga

[cactusflinthead 27626]

20 hours ago, Turkleton said:

A whole lotta bullshit 

I suppose I could put on the muck boots and get a reminder of what it was like pro-Trump by a gander at the Hillary isn't the Pres thread.

From memory: Parliament, Clearlake, Swam,Escriva, FC,Tahoe, Sack, Emy, jhawk were probably first string. Certainly they were volume shooters. The reset of rep meant that they were suddenly vulnerable. They no longer had a significant layer of defense to withstand the negs. 

Hell, some of them changed names. Chrispy had to be from the old place. 

 

[JBJ 3780]

 

14 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

it wasn't just swam and clear lake. it was tahoe, it was escriva, it was that weird marvin the martian guy that shaggy conservatives went to bat for when i banned him for being a blatant troll. shaggy conservatives always accused (still do) me of moderation bias. they always said that shaggy was left-leaning. it really wasn't.

And yet those people were regularly lambasted while groverat saw support up until his ban.  BT still has plenty of friends and Hugo was welcomed for spamming the same shit that got TCUFan banned.

[YChang 3531]

 
And yet those people were regularly lambasted while groverat saw support up until his ban.  BT still has plenty of friends and Hugo was welcomed for spamming the same shit that got TCUFan banned.

Would you like a truth and reconciliation thread started or something?

[hayden_horn 11401]

7 minutes ago, JBJ said:

 

And yet those people were regularly lambasted while groverat saw support up until his ban.  BT still has plenty of friends and Hugo was welcomed for spamming the same shit that got TCUFan banned.

honestly, i don't have any idea what you are talking about. whose support? it was (and is, honestly) pretty easy to have political opinions on this board as it was on the other board. i don't even remember the last time i took moderator action here.

but the victimhood persecution complex you all have is somewhat amazing to behold. poor you, dude. poor you. 

[RomaVicta 30501]

17 minutes ago, JBJ said:

 

And yet those people were regularly lambasted while groverat saw support up until his ban.  BT still has plenty of friends and Hugo was welcomed for spamming the same shit that got TCUFan banned.

Negged for false equivocation of TCUFan and Hugo. Their sources are far different in credibility, and Hugo often qualifies sources that he thinks are worthy of a quote but not entirely trustworthy. TCUFan tossed bombs from any source he could find clearly intending to inflame the libs.

The GOPs and a diminishing number of actual conservatives had plenty of say prior to Trump. Compare the debate about Trump to that about W Bush. Only staunch partisans or persons focused on a single issue stand with Trump. Bush kept conservative support while conservatives were still deluded about what the GOP actually stands for.

It's not joke or lie that a great many people you want to call the left were GOPs leading into the Trump campaign. Some had already dumped the party because they could see that the GOP's fiscal policies were not conservative nor did they have much interest in liberty or small government. The rest got out because of disgust at what Trump stands for. I'm not one of them, but I saw it happen.

Supporting Trump makes a person complicit in the concentration camps, White Nationalist coddling, tyrant embracing, and American institution destroying evils of Trumpism. It's a mystery how a thoughtful person doesn't immediately spit out this vomit he/she has been eating.

Edited August 16, 2019 by RomaVicta

[Biff Tannen 46061]

Wasn't it decided that TCUFan was actually a bot and/or Russian?  Like, legit, not just fucking around and saying that.

[softlynow 1893]

 

6 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

honestly, i don't have any idea what you are talking about. whose support? it was (and is, honestly) pretty easy to have political opinions on this board as it was on the other board. i don't even remember the last time i took moderator action here.

but the victimhood persecution complex you all have is somewhat amazing to behold. poor you, dude. poor you. 

The conservative bench on these boards was thinned considerably the last several years, as it became clear that the bases for their views were being totally betrayed by the pols who claimed that mantle. After Trump's nomination, really only Escriva and Tahoe remained. When brisket and GOLL stopped going to bat for GOP positions, it really weakened the discourse from the Right on here and Shaggy. Of course, that reflects our national dialogue as well. The Weekly Standard wouldn't convert to Trumpism, and folded. Those "conservative" outlets that remain hold nothing like the views of Buckley, Will, Friedman, Kirk, Noonan, etc. It makes sense that the Right complains of persecution, because we're here every day accusing them of having nothing of substance to say.

[hayden_horn 11401]

2 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Wasn't it decided that TCUFan was actually a bot and/or Russian?  Like, legit, not just fucking around and saying that.

yeah, and he was also marvin the martian, among other names he used.

matter of fact, he actually playfully copped to it once, by posting a picture of a robot and a russian flag in one thread.

that he garnered so much support really tells you all you need to know about the current state of republicanism. 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

25 minutes ago, JBJ said:

 

And yet those people were regularly lambasted while groverat saw support up until his ban.  BT still has plenty of friends and Hugo was welcomed for spamming the same shit that got TCUFan banned.

Bullshit.  TCU was literally posting Russian misinformation and memes.  Like, stuff that later appeared in government reports, and from Twitter accounts that were later publicly identified as Russian fronts. 

[cactusflinthead 27626]

29 minutes ago, JBJ said:

 

And yet those people were regularly lambasted while groverat saw support up until his ban.  BT still has plenty of friends and Hugo was welcomed for spamming the same shit that got TCUFan banned.

And fuck you too.

[JBJ 3780]

Just now, hayden_horn said:

honestly, i don't have any idea what you are talking about. whose support? it was (and is, honestly) pretty easy to have political opinions on this board as it was on the other board. i don't even remember the last time i took moderator action here.

but the victimhood persecution complex you all have is somewhat amazing to behold. poor you, dude. poor you. 

No one is being persecuted.  I'm fine with voicing my opinions without negbombing or report spamming. And I'm in no way criticizing moderation as the problem.  I'm not talking about an unbalance in moderation, but an unbalance in how the genpop treated shit posters due to the general unbalance of the board. And I'll agree that shit posters on the old board were on both sides.

You seem convinced that my political views distort perceptions of how the old board was balanced, and I seem convinced of the same. However, the only year in the State of the Cloak Room polls where right outweighed left was in 2016.  And the last one carried a 2:1 left-right ratio.  As imperfect as that may be, if you have a better method to quantify the balance, post it.

[Ghost of LL 15664]

1 hour ago, softlynow said:

I still don’t get that one. Greed isn’t a trait peculiar to a negative stereotype of Jews. I get that they’re associated with money-exchanging occupations, but it just seems too much of a stretch to say that tweet was a slur. 

Are you serious?

You've never heard the phrase "Jew him down" when speaking of a negotiation?  Have you not read Shakespeare?

The "greedy jew" is totally an anti-Semitic trope.

[JBJ 3780]

41 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Negged for false equivocation of TCUFan and Hugo. Their sources are far different in credibility, and Hugo often qualifies sources that he thinks are worthy of a quote but not entirely trustworthy. TCUFan tossed bombs from any source he could find clearly intending to inflame the libs.

Horseshit.  Hugo improved his behavior when confronted with criticism. Major props to him and he's actually a positive member of this board, but the first month or so was twitter conspiracy-theory spam.  There was serious discussion if Hugo was a real person or if the two were the same person.

Edited August 16, 2019 by JBJ

[Anastasis 23699]

15 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

yeah, and he was also marvin the martian, among other names he used.

matter of fact, he actually playfully copped to it once, by posting a picture of a robot and a russian flag in one thread.

that he garnered so much support really tells you all you need to know about the current state of republicanism. 

Did you ever check his IP geolocation? Obviously that can be defeated, but it would also be obvious if he was using a common service to mask his location. 

[hayden_horn 11401]

Just now, Anastasis said:

Did you ever check his IP geolocation? Obviously that can be defeated, but it would also be obvious if he was using a common service to mask his location. 

he was using a vpn to mask his location, so his IP was unidentifiable.

i think it was obvious toward the end that he was an aggregate poster. i think people even found verbatim posts from users on other forums for his bullshit.     

and yet, people still supported the guy. 

i found it weird. still do, honestly.

[JBJ 3780]

6 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Are you serious?

You've never heard the phrase "Jew him down" when speaking of a negotiation?  Have you not read Shakespeare?

The "greedy jew" is totally an anti-Semitic trope.

I agree, but there's nothing anti-semitic in that tweet.  Maybe it's a dog-whistle.

[RomaVicta 30501]

13 minutes ago, JBJ said:

Horseshit.  Hugo improved his behavior when confronted with criticism. Major props to him and he's actually a positive member of this board, but the first month or so was twitter conspiracy-theory spam.

This is what you wrote:

Hugo was welcomed for spamming the same shit that got TCUFan banned.

You don't limit the observation to his first month; you seem to speak generally. If you are right about Hugo's first month, his whole story still differs from TCU who never changed.

I am still convinced that comparing Hugo to TCU is a false equivocation.

 

[softlynow 1893]

11 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Are you serious?

You've never heard the phrase "Jew him down" when speaking of a negotiation?  Have you not read Shakespeare?

The "greedy jew" is totally an anti-Semitic trope.

I have heard of those sayings. Other groups are maligned as greedy, hence the way I phrased my post.

To take her tweet as a slur is to say you can never claim that the motives of Jews may be economic self-interest. That’s absurd. 

Now, is she an anti-Semite? Maybe. I’m not well versed in her career. I’m only commenting on her tweet in isolation. I do so because, at the time it was a news story, it was complained of as anti-Semitic in and of itself, and not in the context of her previous utterances. 

[hpslugga 4096]

24 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Are you serious?

You've never heard the phrase "Jew him down" when speaking of a negotiation?  Have you not read Shakespeare?

The "greedy jew" is totally an anti-Semitic trope.

Again, the exact same comment she made is precisely true for other states. Israel doesn't accept the US aid that she was lambasting because they're Jewish. They accept it because they're a powerful state, which is exactly why Saudi Arabia accepts it as well. What you just posted is a convenient excuse to deflect from the issue. 

Just read from the exact article @yoladu referenced and you'll notice it says "House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and the entire Democratic leadership on Monday condemned Rep. Ilhan Omar for suggesting that Israel’s allies in American politics were motivated by money rather than principle." Those last 3 words are the entire crux of the case, and it's entirely accurate. Our alliance with Israel hasn't anything to do with principle. It has to do with money, and incidentally, it also cuts in both directions. The whole thing about money and greed isn't an exclusive Israeli domain, even in this particular relationship. It's also a domain of the US, which is precisely why we pursue that course. One is smoking the hopium if they think that our relationship with them has to do with some undying love for Jews or Judaism or any of that emotional/sentimental horseshit. That's man-made mythology and there isn't a word of truth to it.

You knew better than to post a comment like that.

Edited August 16, 2019 by hpslugga

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

I was a great shitposter back in the day. 

[wildcat09 29557]

30 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Are you serious?

You've never heard the phrase "Jew him down" when speaking of a negotiation?  Have you not read Shakespeare?

The "greedy jew" is totally an anti-Semitic trope.

This is correct, but Omar's benjamins tweet wasn't about greedy Jews, it was about greedy American politicians.  I think it was ill-advised because it also plays into the general stereotype of the Jewish puppet-master, but I don't think that was her intent. 

[WhatTheBuck 28904]

1 hour ago, softlynow said:

I still don’t get that one. Greed isn’t a trait peculiar to a negative stereotype of Jews. I get that they’re associated with money-exchanging occupations, but it just seems too much of a stretch to say that tweet was a slur. 

All of that was so overblown. I mean, all lobbying is all about the Benjamins to a certain extent. But with AIPAC it goes farther than that because of the Jewish constituency in America and the pro-Israel evangelicals who want to bring on the end times. So it's also all about the politics. What she said made her seem a little naive and inexperienced. But being anti-Israel isn't the same as being anti-Semitic. 

Everything she's said pales in comparison to the hateful, obscene things Trump has said. We all watched Nazis march in Charlottesville chanting "The Jews will not replace us!" and "Into the oven!" Trump called them fine people. One of them murdered a protester and Trump attacked the victim's mother on Twitter. He proposed a total ban on Muslims coming to the U.S. and eventually managed to finagle a partial ban. It was supposed to last three or four months until they figured out "what the hell is going on" but, as anyone with a brain expected, is still going strong after more than two years. He's also shit all over the hope of a two state solution between the Israelis and Palestinians. 

She could be more diplomatic with her language. But anyone who is outraged by her and not by Trump doesn't hate her for what she says. They hate her for who she is. 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

45 minutes ago, JBJ said:

Horseshit.  Hugo improved his behavior when confronted with criticism. Major props to him and he's actually a positive member of this board, but the first month or so was twitter conspiracy-theory spam.  There was serious discussion if Hugo was a real person or if the two were the same person.

There's a difference between being a shitty poster who believes in stupid conspiracy theories and the kind of Russian misinformation that TCU was intentionally disseminating. 

[hpslugga 4096]

9 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I think it was ill-advised because it also plays into the general stereotype of the Jewish puppet-master, but I don't think that was her intent. 

With this, I'll agree. It's important for dissenters to take extra care with how they present a case because there is just no low to which power will not shrink when it suits their purposes in propagandizing and straw-manning the living shit out of what people like her say.

[wildcat09 29557]

Just now, hpslugga said:

With this, I'll agree. It's important for dissenters to take extra care with how they present a case because there is just no low to which power will not shrink when it suits their purposes in propagandizing and straw-manning the living shit out of what people like her say.

Yeah. It's like how Trump is already going after Biden for being a declining old guy with pudding for brains.  It's effective, even though it comes from Trump. In some respects, its even more effective because it comes from Trump.  Fascists delight in weaponizing shit like that.  If that story had stayed in the news a few more days we probably would've seen David Duke condemning her and standing up for Israel just to troll (please don't tell me that happened and I just missed it).  

[hpslugga 4096]

2 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

 If that story had stayed in the news a few more days we probably would've seen David Duke condemning her and standing up for Israel just to troll (please don't tell me that happened and I just missed it).  

He did offer comment on it, and it was a troll effort, just not the kind you think. He went out of his way to push her to the moon, called her the "the most important Member of the US Congress!" etc. He knows he's a hated guy, and he also knows that the only thing that could used to make her portrayal in the mainstream media any worse than disagreeing with her is him agreeing with her. He knew that as soon as he tweeted those comments that anyone who bothered to read his drivel would have said "see, I told you Omar is horrible! EVEN DAVID DUKE AGREES WITH HER!!!" It's all an image game with them, and he did exactly what Trump would have wanted that jock-sniffing piece of shit to do in that situation.

[retread 2951]

12 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

With this, I'll agree. It's important for dissenters to take extra care with how they present a case because there is just no low to which power will not shrink when it suits their purposes in propagandizing and straw-manning the living shit out of what people like her say.

^ Yep. It gets to the point that it's difficult to have any debate. Do conference committees in Congress even meet anymore?

You can pretty much expect the Presidential debates to be the D nominee spending time refuting the lies that DOTUS will say on stage.

Edited August 16, 2019 by retread

[wildcat09 29557]

Just now, hpslugga said:

He did offer comment on it, and it was a troll effort, just not the kind you think. He went out of his way to push her to the moon, called her the "the most important Member of the US Congress!" etc. He knows he's a hated guy, and he also knows that the only thing that could used to make her portrayal in the mainstream media any worse than disagreeing with her is him agreeing with her. He knew that as soon as he tweeted those comments that anyone who bothered to read his drivel would have said "see, I told you Omar is horrible! EVEN DAVID DUKE AGREES WITH HER!!!" It's all an image game with them, and he did exactly what Trump would have wanted that jock-sniffing piece of shit to do in that situation.

Godfuckingdamnit, I should've known.

[BLKNSTY 289]

1 hour ago, JBJ said:

However, the only year in the State of the Cloak Room polls where right outweighed left was in 2016.  And the last one carried a 2:1 left-right ratio.  

huh. I wonder what happened between fucking 2016 and now that caused an exodus from the right and the influx to the left.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

11 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

This is correct, but Omar's benjamins tweet wasn't about greedy Jews, it was about greedy American politicians.  I think it was ill-advised because it also plays into the general stereotype of the Jewish puppet-master, but I don't think that was her intent. 

Her track record with those tropes isn't great.  She also tweeted in 2012 that "Israel has hypnotized the world" and said more recently that the pro-Israel position is about "allegiance to a foreign country."   That said, she's apologized, and it seemed sincere enough to me.  I could be wrong, but I don't really get the Cynthia McKinney anti-semitic vibe from her. 

Either way, Trump's overstatement of what she's said is disgraceful, and his self-serving effort to divide American support for Israel along partisan lines is more damaging thing for Israel that I've ever seen from an American politician. 

[hpslugga 4096]

11 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

She also tweeted in 2012 that "Israel has hypnotized the world"

To me, statements like these have to be judged on their fact/fiction nature, regardless of what motivates it. So in the case of the comment you mentioned, that was just flat out wrong. They have not "hypnotized the world," and you need no more evidence than how the annual Peaceful Settlement of the Palestine Question vote in the UN General Assembly shakes out every single year. The cause of the Palestinians is always supported in that resolution to the tune of around 164-7 (with the 7 being the US, Israel and a handful of Pacific islands that hardly any of Israel's "supporters" on this site could find on a map). So she was just factually wrong to say that. 

Quote

and said more recently that the pro-Israel position is about "allegiance to a foreign country." 

Again, judge it on a fact/fiction basis. On this comment, it's a little mixed. When it comes to the right wing, it's definitely true. When it comes to the establishment wing? Not so much. But again, the establishment isn't allied with Israel because of some undying love/loyalty to Jews. Their motivation is no different than when it was first established in 1958 when an NSC document explained "if we choose to combat radical Arab nationalism and to hold Persian Gulf oil by force if necessary, a logical corollary would be to support Israel as the only strong pro-West power left in the Near East." Bear in mind, that was 1958. That was before such sentiments were intensified to the point where a certain Secretary of State articulated the current strategic policy known as "Stalemate."

Quote

Either way, Trump's overstatement of what she's said is disgraceful, and his self-serving effort to divide American support for Israel along partisan lines is more damaging thing for Israel that I've ever seen from an American politician. 

No doubt.

Edited August 16, 2019 by hpslugga

[JimmyJames 12271]

1 hour ago, hayden_horn said:

he was using a vpn to mask his location, so his IP was unidentifiable.

i think it was obvious toward the end that he was an aggregate poster. i think people even found verbatim posts from users on other forums for his bullshit.     

and yet, people still supported the guy. 

i found it weird. still do, honestly.

That did happen and when he was confronted with it he said something like “who cares it’s good content.” Yeah normal people post “good content” all over the net.

The dude was obviously being paid to spread Russian disinformation all over the place. This was pre-mueller so people couldn’t comprehend anyone giving a shit enough about a longhorn message board to bother.  But it only took him a few seconds to post the same crap in multiple places. 

[Horn Dog 10156]

1 hour ago, Ghost of LL said:

Are you serious?

You've never heard the phrase "Jew him down" when speaking of a negotiation?  Have you not read Shakespeare?

The "greedy jew" is totally an anti-Semitic trope.

This reminds me of the Chris Rock joke about blacks liking fried chicken and watermelon ...who doesn’t like fried chicken and watermelon?

It IS all about the Benjamin’s .. with jews, whites, muslims, hispanics, asians, blacks, american indians, eskimos, etc.  If being money oriented is a racial slur then that is one broad ass slur.

[WhatTheBuck 28904]

14 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

Her track record with those tropes isn't great.  She also tweeted in 2012 that "Israel has hypnotized the world" and said more recently that the pro-Israel position is about "allegiance to a foreign country."   That said, she's apologized, and it seemed sincere enough to me.  I could be wrong, but I don't really get the Cynthia McKinney anti-semitic vibe from her. 

Either way, Trump's overstatement of what she's said is disgraceful, and his self-serving effort to divide American support for Israel along partisan lines is more damaging thing for Israel that I've ever seen from an American politician. 

Yeah, but she didn't say the Jews have hypnotized the world. Anti-Israel isn't anti-Semitic. Trump is basically calling people "un-American" if they say anything negative about Israel. She's got more of a point than the Republicans did who warned that the Catholic JFK was going to be in allegiance with the Vatican so couldn't be trusted to act with America's best interests in mind. 

What's most frustrating to me is that I think it's painfully obvious that the God of Abraham is a myth and so Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all false. I wish they'd all just lighten up and learn to get along. They're sort of all equally guilty of being hypnotized so none of them really have room to talk. 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

6 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Yeah, but she didn't say the Jews have hypnotized the world.

I know that you aren't that naive.   Israel is a (the) Jewish nation.   Saying that Israel has hypnotized the world means that the Jews running Israel have hypnotized the world.   You might as well say that Ken Cuccinelli and Trump aren't talking about white people when they talk about European culture and immigrants. 

That doesn't mean it's necessarily anti-semitic to criticize Israel, just as it isn't necessarily white supremacist to praise Europeans.  But the context of the hypnotize comment is that Jews controlling the world is perhaps the most damaging anti-semitic trope in history.  In addition, it isn't remotely true as a factual matter, for the reasons hpslugga points out.  Most of the world hates Israel — whether or not you agree that hatred is justified.   So what exactly is a non-anti-semitic meaning to that statement?  At best, she made a mistake, and I accept her apology on that basis. 

[lemonlime 5503]

13 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Yeah, but she didn't say the Jews have hypnotized the world. Anti-Israel isn't anti-Semitic. Trump is basically calling people "un-American" if they say anything negative about Israel. She's got more of a point than the Republicans did who warned that the Catholic JFK was going to be in allegiance with the Vatican so couldn't be trusted to act with America's best interests in mind. 

What's most frustrating to me is that I think it's painfully obvious that the God of Abraham is a myth and so Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all false. I wish they'd all just lighten up and learn to get along. They're sort of all equally guilty of being hypnotized so none of them really have room to talk. 

She was invoking anti-Semitic tropes  in her criticism of Israel.  And no, criticism of Israel is not on its own anti-Semitic. 

But, if there's anything that offends me here, it is the Trumpublicans' attempts to leverage her comments in an effort to mask their own bigotry -- it is the Trumpublicans' attempts to make support for Israel into a partisan issue. The Trumpublicans' ridiculous assumption that American Jews care more about such things as where the U.S. Embassy to Israel is located than things that impact our every day lives in the U.S.  The Trumpublicans' attempts to use her statements as some sort of sword that permits them to engage in whatever racist demagoguery they want, while screaming about how much they love Israel. The Trumpublicans' screaming about Omar's supposed anti-Semitism while saying there's good Nazis and drumming up support from white supremacists.  The Trumpublicans' efforts to have Israel deny entry to U.S. Congresswomen based on their political views.  And most of all the Trumpublicans' support of kiddy concentration camps and demonizing people based on their religion or where they are from.

[WhatTheBuck 28904]

6 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

I know that you aren't that naive.   Israel is a (the) Jewish nation.   Saying that Israel has hypnotized the world means that the Jews running Israel have hypnotized the world.   You might as well say that Ken Cuccinelli and Trump aren't talking about white people when they talk about European culture and immigrants. 

That doesn't mean it's necessarily anti-semitic to criticize Israel, just as it isn't necessarily white supremacist to praise Europeans.  But the context of the hypnotize comment is that Jews controlling the world is perhaps the most damaging anti-semitic trope in history.  In addition, it isn't remotely true as a factual matter, for the reasons hpslugga points out.  Most of the world hates Israel — whether or not you agree that hatred is justified.   So what exactly is a non-anti-semitic meaning to that statement?  At best, she made a mistake, and I accept her apology on that basis. 

Okay, it was akin to saying "some Jews" have hypnotized the world. Israel is a political entity. Not all Jews were in favor of its creation because of how it was created. Not all Jews - Israeli, American, or otherwise -- support the right-wing policies of the Netanyahu government. Don't confuse the government with the religion.