Slackers turned into teacher sackers

[Reagan1k 3000]

Quote

"Bye Kids, Mrs. Tirado loves you and wishes you the best in life! I have been fired for refusing to give you a 50% for not handing anything in. 💓 Mrs. Tirado."

http://www.fox19.com/2018/09/25/school-teacher-fired-after-not-giving-zeros-assignment/

Will be interesting to see how this plays out......What'll be most fun is to see the drama that plays out when the parents take side - Snowflakes vs Sanity.

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

That article is absolute gibberish.  

[Fuck Tim Beck 3778]

Thanks No Child Left Behind 

[Apep 644]

Unsurprising. At my wife’s school, the admin will change the grades after year end to make more students pass.

[Reagan1k 3000]

10 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

That article is absolute gibberish.  

I don't disagree - The author was clearly taught in the Port St. Lucie school system before Mrs. Tirdao got there and it shows.

Here's one that is slightly better.....

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/opinion/audience/david-whitley/os-ae-florida-teacher-fired-for-giving-zeros-david-whitley-20180925-story.html

Edited September 26, 2018 by Reagan1k

[po elvis 2070]

if the grading scale for the school is 50 to 100, I don't get the problem with giving 50's. that is the lowest grade you can get. if their scale is 0 to 100, then it makes no sense.

[Reagan1k 3000]

Just now, po elvis said:

if the grading scale for the school is 50 to 100, I don't get the problem with giving 50's. that is the lowest grade you can get. if their scale is 0 to 100, then it makes no sense.

 

From the Orlando Sentinel article 

Quote

Kerry Padrick, the chief information officer, released this statement. It read in part:

"There is no District or individual school policy prohibiting teachers from recording a grade of zero for work not turned in. The District’s Uniform Grading System utilizes letter grades A-F, numerical grades 100-0 and grade point averages from 4-0."

Quote

In Tirado’s mind, no work should mean no credit. But then she checked the West Gate student and parent handbook. Below the chart detailing the score requirements for letter grades, there was a line in red ink.

"NO ZEROS- LOWEST POSSIBLE GRADE IS 50%."

Tirado said she asked administrators what the score should be if a student doesn’t turn anything in.

“We give them a 50,” she was told.

 

[Hawndoh 2326]

In other words, employee fired for not following organizational policy. Shocking. 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Hawndoh said:

In other words, employee fired for not following organizational policy. Shocking. 

The policy falsifies the results/ measures of the students' achievements?

Sounds great.

[Telegraph_it 3350]

43 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

That article is absolute gibberish.  

I think that article was translated using google. 

[Hawndoh 2326]

Falsify achievement?

giving a zero also falsified achievement. Any grade assigned to a missing paper is a false grade. The grade is supposed to measure content knowledge and mastery. A zero means the kid knows nothing about the content. 

The teacher is assigning a behavioral grade to an academic paper. 

Grades don’t have to be 0-100 percentages. That’s completely arbitrary. 70 being a passing grade is also arbitrary. 

[El Diablo 4232]

7 minutes ago, Hawndoh said:

Falsify achievement?

giving a zero also falsified achievement. Any grade assigned to a missing paper is a false grade. The grade is supposed to measure content knowledge and mastery. A zero means the kid knows nothing about the content. 

The teacher is assigning a behavioral grade to an academic paper. 

Grades don’t have to be 0-100 percentages. That’s completely arbitrary. 70 being a passing grade is also arbitrary. 

I thought the grade represented a measurement of the demonstration of content knowledge. If a student presents no knowledge of the subject, that's a zero, no?

[Hawndoh 2326]

A missing paper is not a measure of zero knowledge. It’s a missing measurement. 

So some other consequence should take place and then the paper should actually be done so a valid score can be given. 

A zero is an outlier score for most kids. Say they get 100s on the next two papers covering the same topic. Their average is now 67%

is 67% an accurate indicator of their understanding of the topic?

[DigglerontheHoof 20450]

And if the paper never gets turned in?  Still a 50?

[El Diablo 4232]

2 minutes ago, Hawndoh said:

A missing paper is not a measure of zero knowledge. It’s a missing measurement. 

So some other consequence should take place and then the paper should actually be done so a valid score can be given. 

A zero is an outlier score for most kids. Say they get 100s on the next two papers covering the same topic. Their average is now 67%

is 67% an accurate indicator of their understanding of the topic?

The zero is a measurement of a missed opportunity, Lessons learned etc...

[Reagan1k 3000]

Just now, El Diablo said:

The grade is supposed to measure content knowledge and mastery. A zero means the kid knows nothing about the content. 

Giving a kid a 50% who turns in work but only displayed a content knowledge of 30% is also a false grade.  The 0 for not turning something in discussion is just a spotlight shown on the broken mentality of this system.

[Trey3216 15298]

15 minutes ago, Hawndoh said:

Falsify achievement?

giving a zero also falsified achievement. Any grade assigned to a missing paper is a false grade. The grade is supposed to measure content knowledge and mastery. A zero means the kid knows nothing about the content. 

The teacher is assigning a behavioral grade to an academic paper. 

Grades don’t have to be 0-100 percentages. That’s completely arbitrary. 70 being a passing grade is also arbitrary. 

You're arguing for the grade to be an incomplete, which is nominally understandable.

 

But the roundabout way you're arguing is a bit bitchy  

[Hawndoh 2326]

Just now, DigglerontheHoof said:

And if the paper never gets turned in?  Still a 50?

That’s the compromise most districts have made with these grade floors. Everyone knows the 50 is still not indicative of content mastery but there are kids that will simply never produce the work. 

Both the 50 and the 0 are failing grades. One just destroys the average more than the other which only makes the grades given on completed work that much more inaccurate. 

Best practice is to assess the content in some other way and use that grade. 

[bernorange 8336]

3 minutes ago, Hawndoh said:

...

A zero is an outlier score for most kids. Say they get 100s on the next two papers covering the same topic. Their average is now 67%

is 67% an accurate indicator of their understanding of the topic?

If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding! How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?!

[Hawndoh 2326]

And I’m not saying there are no negative consequences for missing assignments. I’m saying there are more effective and meaningful ways to go about it than giving a zero and moving on. 

Frankly that’s the lazy way out and it just puts the kid in a hole they will have little belief they can get out of. Now you have a kid likely to give up and not complete future assignments. 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

You're arguing for the grade to be an incomplete, which is nominally understandable.

 

But the roundabout way you're arguing is a bit bitchy  

No.  it is absolute.

 

The effort/ demonstration of work/competency is zero.  Not incomplete.

 

The bitchy part is the handwringers who ask, "Oh how will the student recover?"

 

You know how they recover?  They do the fucking assignments.

Edited September 26, 2018 by slorch

[Shaggy3.0 1694]

If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding! How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?!

That’s what I told your mom over dinner last night. She eventually ate my meat.

[bernorange 8336]

It seems like a lot of the teachers at my kid's school have a policy to drop several of the lowest grades from the daily work category every grading period.  That seems to give the kids either a chance to recover from the odd missing assignment, or the chance to skip assignments they don't like. 

[Hawndoh 2326]

1 minute ago, bernorange said:

It seems like a lot of the teachers at my kid's school have a policy to drop several of the lowest grades from the daily work category every grading period.  That seems to give the kids either a chance to recover from the odd missing assignment, or the chance to skip assignments they don't like. 

That’s another common compromise to handle the outlier zeros. It’s intended to do the same job grade floors are doing. 

I personally don’t like that way as many kids try to game the system too much 

[irishtexan 11413]

You don't turn your shit in, it's a fucking zero. Everyone knows this. Stop trying to rationalize this with grade floors and missing measurements. Do your fucking work. Stop trying to weasel your way out of responsibility. 

Edit: And I fucking HATE you for making me sound like slorch on this. 

Edited September 26, 2018 by irishtexan

[El Diablo 4232]

14 minutes ago, Hawndoh said:

That’s another common compromise to handle the outlier zeros. It’s intended to do the same job grade floors are doing. 

I personally don’t like that way as many kids try to game the system too much 

Guilty as charged, sort of. My last semester in college I let my GPA slip a good bit because I knew I was graduating with a high GPA, had a job lined up and was moving on with my life.

[clapclapclap 8998]

7 minutes ago, irishtexan said:

And I fucking HATE you for making me sound like slorch on this. 

Odd, that was painted on a house I drove by today.

[Reagan1k 3000]

The educational process should not just be content mastery, but also practical and functional operation in society.

Giving false credit for work not performed does nothing but undermine the student with regard to what life is like and sets them up for failure in high school, college, or the workforce.

The unrealistic expectations social promotion creates are far more harmful long term than a feeling that the student is in a hole they can't escape because of a zero.  If the student is in that hole, stop digging and start turning in work.

If you don't show up for work, even though you know how to do your job (content mastery), you don't get paid 50% of your wages (grades) you get fired (fail).

[Fuck Tim Beck 3778]

Thanks No Child Left Behind 

[clapclapclap 8998]

You already said that.  Do you mean their right behind?

Edited September 26, 2018 by clapclapclap
Which is all very creepy

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 hour ago, Reagan1k said:

The educational process should not just be content mastery, but also practical and functional operation in society.

Giving false credit for work not performed does nothing but undermine the student with regard to what life is like and sets them up for failure in high school, college, or the workforce.

The unrealistic expectations social promotion creates are far more harmful long term than a feeling that the student is in a hole they can't escape because of a zero.  If the student is in that hole, stop digging and start turning in work.

If you don't show up for work, even though you know how to do your job (content mastery), you don't get paid 50% of your wages (grades) you get fired (fail).

Meh, they'll just go to work as a civil servant.....

[HOOKEM4 4872]

All I know is that if someone decides not to finish a project at work, they get fired. That is a consequence of an action. The negative impact of getting a zero on a misssed assignment is very small when averaged throughout the whole year. If you miss enough, you will fail. That is simple and I don't get why that is hard to understand. Millennials think they can show up to work whenever they want and miss more days than they have PTO. That isn't the case, and these stupid grade floor policies are adding to that. Handle your business or don't. No free rides.

[Beau Vine 53625]

I'm wondering how many students got grades below 50 on tests or assignments they turned in?

[Kyle 207]

3 hours ago, Hawndoh said:

In other words, employee fired for not following organizational policy. Shocking. 

This. Personally, I disagree with the policy, but regardless you pretty much have to follow policy. We could talk all day about grade inflation and our education system producing snowflakes that cannot compete with the Asians, but that's another topic.

[Fuck Tim Beck 3778]

1 hour ago, clapclapclap said:

You already said that.  Do you mean their right behind?

Delete user. Ban thread. And no on the right behind, this ain't ped state 

[RDCanecutter 25770]

Rookie Teacher: OMG! I have to give a 50 if they don't turn anything in! I think I'll get fired and be broke!

Evil Bitter Veteran Teacher: Assign so many things that the number of 50s the slackers accumulate make it mathematically impossible to get above a 59 even if they accidentally turn a couple of things in.

Even More Evil Older Bitter Veteran Teacher: Find out which kids have moms who are somewhat good looking and also worried about all their kid's 50s. Arrange parent teacher conferences, just the parent and the teacher. Assign Ds instead of Fs for the rest, let em all go apply to Princeton now that they have a D. Cool.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

46 minutes ago, HOOKEM4 said:

All I know is that if someone decides not to finish a project at work, they get fired. That is a consequence of an action. The negative impact of getting a zero on a misssed assignment is very small when averaged throughout the whole year. If you miss enough, you will fail. That is simple and I don't get why that is hard to understand. Millennials think they can show up to work whenever they want and miss more days than they have PTO. That isn't the case, and these stupid grade floor policies are adding to that. Handle your business or don't. No free rides.

Not today boy. You fire somebody you better protect yourself from claims of racism, sexism, or some other ism, and you'd better give em a really glowing reference letter.  At least in corp. America.

Forget about firing a civil servant, you'd have to kill somebody it seems....

[Pato del Muerto 51914]

What grade would be closest to the grade the assignment would have received had it been completed?  

Most kids would score above a zero.  Assigning a grade of 50/100 ensures that the assigned grade is no more than 50 points away from what the theoretical submitted assignment grade would be.  And it’s probably within 25-30 points for most students. 

I can see how this policy would have a statistical case backing it up. 

[HOOKEM4 4872]

All it does is reward laziness and entitlement.

[Gene Parmesan 3951]

The real world is full with dumbasses and lazy people skating by just the same.  If you aren't one of them, they only make you look better by comparison.

[Rollo Tomassi 80]

2 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

I'm wondering how many students got grades below 50 on tests or assignments they turned in?

In college I got a zero on a test that I actually took and "answered" all the questions.  No partial credit.  I did get to drop my lowest test score.

Electromagnetics....Dr. Cogdell.

[NorthLoop 13907]

At what point do we find out she was fired for something else, then went all "LOOK AT MEEEEEEEEEE" on social media like the attention whore generation she's teaching. 

[Reagan1k 3000]

35 minutes ago, Rollo Tomassi said:

In college I got a zero on a test that I actually took and "answered" all the questions.  No partial credit.  I did get to drop my lowest test score.

Electromagnetics....Dr. Cogdell.

That's actually impressive.  

Were you supposed to be in that class during that test or did you just stumble into the wrong room half-drunk thinking you were in Economics instead of Electromagnetics?

Edited September 26, 2018 by Reagan1k

[PRONG HORN 3085]

5 hours ago, Hawndoh said:

A missing paper is not a measure of zero knowledge. It’s a missing measurement. 

So some other consequence should take place and then the paper should actually be done so a valid score can be given. 

A zero is an outlier score for most kids. Say they get 100s on the next two papers covering the same topic. Their average is now 67%

is 67% an accurate indicator of their understanding of the topic?

 

It's an accurate indicator of that students demonstrated understanding.

 

Edited September 26, 2018 by PRONG HORN

[El Diablo 4232]

1 hour ago, Pato del Muerto said:

What grade would be closest to the grade the assignment would have received had it been completed?  

Most kids would score above a zero.  Assigning a grade of 50/100 ensures that the assigned grade is no more than 50 points away from what the theoretical submitted assignment grade would be.  And it’s probably within 25-30 points for most students. 

I can see how this policy would have a statistical case backing it up. 

Akin to grading on a curve.  

[Rollo Tomassi 80]

1 hour ago, Reagan1k said:

That's actually impressive.  

Were you supposed to be in that class during that test or did you just stumble into the wrong room half-drunk thinking you were in Economics instead of Electromagnetics?

Sadly, that was my class...there's a reason I went to law school instead of practicing engineering.

[Beau Vine 53625]

Isn't this exactly what got Dallas Carter football in trouble with the UIL in 1988?

[Beau Vine 53625]

2 hours ago, Rollo Tomassi said:

In college I got a zero on a test that I actually took and "answered" all the questions.  No partial credit.  I did get to drop my lowest test score.

Electromagnetics....Dr. Cogdell.

Edited September 26, 2018 by Beau Vine

[bernorange 8336]

2 hours ago, Rollo Tomassi said:

In college I got a zero on a test that I actually took and "answered" all the questions.  

Cool story Mr. Blutarsky.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, El Diablo said:

Akin to grading on a curve.  

'ceptin' for the part about actually taking the test, as opposed to no-showing and expecting a fiddy.