Term limits

[bernorange 8348]

I searched for a thread specifically on this topic and did not see one, so SIAP (there were several that discussed the issue, but it was tangential to the topic of the OP).

Quote

Term limits for state legislators were overwhelmingly approved by Missouri voters in 1992 based on a simple premise: Periodic refreshing of the General Assembly’s ranks would make it more responsive to the people and less prone to corruption.

Twenty-six years later, did it work?

That’s the question The Star’s readers wanted to ask our panel of business leaders, policymakers and community catalysts participating in “The Missouri Influencers” series. From now until Election Day in November, The Star will be taking questions from readers through the Your Voice tool on an array of policy issues facing our state and posing those questions to our panel of 51 influential Missourians.

On the question of whether term limits have been a success in Missouri, the vast majority responded with a resounding “no.”

Instead, most say term limits contribute to political gridlock; increase the influence of lobbyists, political consultants and bureaucrats; and create greater incentive for lawmakers to seek out lobbying jobs as they approach the end of their time in office.
...

https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/influencers/article218682105.html

My takeaway?  We need more nuance.

[Js1 85110]

I get the concept for executives.  I think term limits for President and governors should be mandatory.

For U.S. Representatives, it's harder.  Because a 2 year term isn't long time to get anything done or gain any institutional knowledge.  And the majority seems to easily change every 2-4 years.

• Is 6 terms enough? That's 12 years in office if you can manage re-election 5 times. But you might only spend 1/2 that time in the majority with the ability to sponsor and pass legislation.

For U.S. Senators, you get 6 years. Which is basically 3 legislative sessions.  If you can't do shit in 3 different sessions, will you ever get anything done?

• Is 2 terms enough? That's 12 years in office if you manage a single re-election.  That's 2-4 Presidents you'd be confirming judicial nominees and cabinet secretaries for.

For Texas - our legislature meets for 6 months every 2 years.  I don't see the point in keeping some of these people around forever to barely work part-time.

• Joe Craddick served in the Texas House for 48 years.  He worked the equivalent of 12 years.  Wtf.

Edited September 26, 2018 by Js1

[Huckleberry 32702]

Term limits are a terrible idea and always will be. Not only are they a limitation on freedom of speech (one's vote is political speech) but lots of the predicted negatives are mentioned in that blurb. Term limits would increase, not decrease, the impact of lobbyists and special interest money.

 

 

 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

I’m torn on term limits but we first need serious anti-corruption legislation.

like...

First Big Change – Padlock the revolving door between big business and government. 

Ban elected and appointed officials from becoming lobbyists after they leave office. Not for 1 year.  Not for 2 years. For the rest of their lives. No special deals for millions and millions of dollars to the policymakers who will be in a position to pay back their old employers.

Second Big Change – Stop self-dealing by public officials. If a person works for the government, then that person should serve the public. No making policy decisions to help yourself instead of taxpayers.

Presidents should not be able to own companies on the side. And we shouldn’t have to beg candidates to let the American people see their financial interests. That should be the law – not just for presidential candidates, but for every candidate for every federal office.

Third Big Change – End lobbying as we know it. 

Start by fixing the Swiss cheese definition of a “lobbyist.”  Require everyone who gets paid to influence government to register. And bring that lobbying out into the sunlight. Make every single meeting between a lobbyist and a public official a matter of public record.

We should ban Americans from getting paid to lobby for foreign governments – period. If foreign governments want to express their views, they can use their diplomats. 

Fourth Big Change – End corporate capture of rulemaking. 

Prosecute companies that knowingly mislead government agencies. And stop the practice of companies paying for sham “studies” designed to derail the rulemaking process. 

Fifth Big Change – Restore faith that ordinary people can get a fair shake in our courts. 

Strengthen the code of conduct for all federal judges – no stock trading, no payments from corporations for attending events, no honoraria for giving speeches, no lavish getaways & fancy hunting trips funded by billionaires. & I mean all federal judges, including SCOTUS justices.

Big Change Number Six – Hire a new independent sheriff to police corruption. There are dedicated public servants that enforce our ethics laws – but they have less authority than security guards at the mall. 

Build a new anticorruption agency to make sure that all key federal officials – even powerful Senators and Presidents – file disclosures and get rid of conflicts. 

 

[Js1 85110]

I forgot to add, if you pass any term limit legislation, you almost HAVE to bar former elected officials from lobbying the legislature that they served in.  For at least a good 10 years. 

[Bateshorn 9903]

We have term limits.  They're  called elections.

OTOH, Judicial Term Limits should absolutely be a thing. It's the first thing I would change about the constitution.

Also, I'm required to register as a lobbyist already.  I have the same right to petition the government as you do. It's not my fault that I know where to go to maximize my leverage.  I just have to file an ass ton of paperwork to do it.

Edited September 26, 2018 by Bateshorn

[Js1 85110]

Just now, Bateshorn said:

We have term limits.  They're  called elections.

OTOH, Judicial Term Limits should absolutely be a thing. It's the first thing I would change about the constitution.

I 100% agree with your second point. Lifetime appointments are dumb.  At least put in a forced retirement age.

If you won't go with term limits for Reps/Senators, at least also put in a mandatory retirement age.  You don't get to be re-elected after 70? 75? Go fucking enjoy your life.  But my issue with "we have term limits - elections" is that people bitch and moan about Congress and then just re-elect their Representative.  They don't like YOUR representative; they love theirs. YOU need to vote yours out, but I'm keeping mine.

[bernorange 8348]

3 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

... OTOH, Judicial Term Limits should absolutely be a thing. It's the first thing I would change about the constitution.

SCOTUS?

[Bateshorn 9903]

I could see a change to the age limit rule in the constitution that no member may be sworn in after their 65th birthday.

 

The Judicial term limit should apply to all levels of the federal courts.  That's a good 25% of what's poisoning the senate.

Edited September 26, 2018 by Bateshorn

[Mojo Hand 4580]

President is the only position that should have term limits, because of the unique and massive power wielded by a single person and the potential for dictatorship.    It's a bad idea for every other position.   

[DanRydell 799]

3 hours ago, Bateshorn said:

We have term limits.  They're  called elections.

OTOH, Judicial Term Limits should absolutely be a thing. It's the first thing I would change about the constitution.

Also, I'm required to register as a lobbyist already.  I have the same right to petition the government as you do. It's not my fault that I know where to go to maximize my leverage.  I just have to file an ass ton of paperwork to do it.

I'm not against judicial term limits but they need to be long enough that it's still realistically the last job the person will ever have.

I'm intrigued by the proposal of 18 year limits which allows two appointments per Presidential term (plus any unexpected vacancies).

[David Dennison 18658]

3 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

Term limits are a terrible idea and always will be. Not only are they a limitation on freedom of speech (one's vote is political speech) but lots of the predicted negatives are mentioned in that blurb. Term limits would increase, not decrease, the impact of lobbyists and special interest money.

 

 

 

 

Agreed.

Vote. There's your term limit.

[Bateshorn 9903]

I can get behind 18 year limits.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

Yeah.  Term limits for Congress will turn every Congressperson's last term into a job interview.  No term limits.  Instead, get rid of PACs, get rid of anonymous political donations, and make every Congressperson publish complete yearly tax records and donor logs. 

But if you really want to do it right, ban political parties, ban sitting Congresspeople from endorsing other Congresspeople/Candidates, and ban political donations from anyone who doesn't reside in a district.  Serve your constituents rather than outside influences. 

[High Plains Drifter 10977]

5 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Yeah.  Term limits for Congress will turn every Congressperson's last term into a job interview.  No term limits.  Instead, get rid of PACs, get rid of anonymous political donations, and make every Congressperson publish complete yearly tax records and donor logs. 

But if you really want to do it right, ban political parties, ban sitting Congresspeople from endorsing other Congresspeople/Candidates, and ban political donations from anyone who doesn't reside in a district.  Serve your constituents rather than outside influences. 

Agree.

[Dr.J 31]

6 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I’m torn on term limits but we first need serious anti-corruption legislation.

like...

First Big Change – Padlock the revolving door between big business and government. 

Ban elected and appointed officials from becoming lobbyists after they leave office. Not for 1 year.  Not for 2 years. For the rest of their lives. No special deals for millions and millions of dollars to the policymakers who will be in a position to pay back their old employers.

Second Big Change – Stop self-dealing by public officials. If a person works for the government, then that person should serve the public. No making policy decisions to help yourself instead of taxpayers.

Presidents should not be able to own companies on the side. And we shouldn’t have to beg candidates to let the American people see their financial interests. That should be the law – not just for presidential candidates, but for every candidate for every federal office.

Third Big Change – End lobbying as we know it. 

Start by fixing the Swiss cheese definition of a “lobbyist.”  Require everyone who gets paid to influence government to register. And bring that lobbying out into the sunlight. Make every single meeting between a lobbyist and a public official a matter of public record.

We should ban Americans from getting paid to lobby for foreign governments – period. If foreign governments want to express their views, they can use their diplomats. 

Fourth Big Change – End corporate capture of rulemaking. 

Prosecute companies that knowingly mislead government agencies. And stop the practice of companies paying for sham “studies” designed to derail the rulemaking process. 

Fifth Big Change – Restore faith that ordinary people can get a fair shake in our courts. 

Strengthen the code of conduct for all federal judges – no stock trading, no payments from corporations for attending events, no honoraria for giving speeches, no lavish getaways & fancy hunting trips funded by billionaires. & I mean all federal judges, including SCOTUS justices.

Big Change Number Six – Hire a new independent sheriff to police corruption. There are dedicated public servants that enforce our ethics laws – but they have less authority than security guards at the mall. 

Build a new anticorruption agency to make sure that all key federal officials – even powerful Senators and Presidents – file disclosures and get rid of conflicts. 

 

Warren is proposing a pair of bills that are these things almost exactly.  They had her on Pod save america talking about it a week or so ago

[Asithappens 974]

There should be term limits on SCOTUS justices, as well.

[Huckleberry 32702]

There are. They just get the one term.

[RayDog 682]

I think each president should get to appoint a fixed number of justices each 4 year term (1 or 2) and let the number of justices float.

[pacman 7329]

Nothing matters if money is the lone determination for the winner.

Having experienced congressmen isn't a problem. The issue, due to money, is the longer they stay, the less they work for the people.

[crash_davis 23084]

https://www.cbs7.com/2021/01/25/sen-cruz-reintroduces-amendment-imposing-term-limits-on-members-of-congress/

WASHINGTON, D.C. (KOSA) - U.S. Senator Ted Cruz, along with other Republican Senators, has reintroduced an amendment to the U.S. Constitution that would impose term limits on members of Congress.

“Every year, Congress spends billions of dollars on giveaways for the well-connected: Washington insiders get taxpayer money and members of Congress get re-elected, all while the system fails the American people. It’s no wonder that the vast majority of Americans from every political stripe – Republicans, Democrats, and Independents – overwhelmingly support congressional term limits,” said Sen. Cruz.

The amendment would limit U.S. Senators to two six-year terms, and members of the House of Representatives to three two-year terms.

“The rise of political careerism in today’s Congress is a sharp departure from what the Founders intended for our federal governing bodies. I have long called for this solution for the brokenness of Washington, D.C., and I will continue fighting to hold career politicians accountable. As I have done in the past, I urge my colleagues to submit this constitutional amendment to the states for speedy ratification,” Sen. Cruz said.

Sen. Cruz was joined by Sen. Mike Braum (R-Ind.), Pat Toomey (R-Pa.), Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), Todd Young (R-Ind.), and Rick Scott (R-Fla.) in reintroducing the amendment.

[kevwun 15651]

Ah yes, Republicans trumpeting legislation they have no intention to pass.

[wildcat09 29256]

Anyone who supports term limits thinking that they'll encourage members of Congress to actually work for the people needs to sit and think for a long fucking time about why Ted Cruz supports them.

[Js1 85110]

Ok cool Ted. Self term limits yourself and don’t run in 2024 

[crash_davis 23084]

If this ever passed, the current members would be grandfathered making them exempt. 

Do as I say, not as I do.