Wild Wild Country

[wild_turkey 3,184]

I saw it listed in the Netflix thread, but it probably needs its own thread for continued discussion. For those of you who don't know, it's a 6-part documentary about the Rajneeshpuram commune/cult that was active in Oregon in the early 80s. The series is produced by the Duplass brothers, who both attended UT.

Like many others, I had never heard of the Rajneesh cult until this series. Really mind-blowing stuff that happened. 

Discuss.

[Nuge 1,987]

I recently heard about this as well.  I live somewhat close by and had no idea this happened here.  What a trip.

[yoshi 137]

Very well done.   I thought what made it so great was that they got Sheela to participate in the documentary since she was just as big of a part of the story as the Bagwhan.   What an amazing villain she was.    

[Deej 76,944]

They were much less cultish than aggy.

[wild_turkey 3,184]

Sheela was an excellent villain but I get her for what she was. I don't agree with most of what she did, but she appeared 100% committed to doing her role.

Bhagwam really pissed me off. Complete snake oil salesman that would change his official position on things at the drop of a hat. It's laughable that he was silent for 4 years while Sheela ran the daily operations, then he later tried to claim he didn't agree with the Rajneesh "religion" and that Sheela did that behind his back. That guy was fully aware of everything that was going on at all times. I'm sure he was fully involved in their schemes to poison the town, burn the court house, murder the attorney general, etc. It sucks that he got to leave the country while some of the other people actually did jail time.

I guess the more baffling thing is that people appeared to completely buy into whatever he was selling on any given day. The lawyer/mayor they kept interviewing is possibly the worst of them all. I'd have a little more respect for the guy if he would just admit he wanted to get off the grid and join a sex commune for a few years. That doesn't appear to be the case with him (or a lot of them for that matter).

Edited March 27, 2018 by wild_turkey

[squanchy 11]

bhagwam always had this hilarious smirk on his face where you could easily tell he was thinking "jfc, these people idoits, but hey, i have 20 rolls-royces so i guess i can deal with it." it's no wonder his staff would do whatever he said...they got to cruise around in a rolls, screw whomever they wanted, and skim money off of the cult. 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4,977]

Just finished this. Sheela doesn't seem to be be capable of showing empathy for anybody who gets in her way. Long beard is a weasel snake oil salesman with a silver tongue apparently, and the lawyer dude is full of himself and still can't admit that maybe they didn't do things the way they should have.

[Druggist 303]

There is a pretty interesting 99% invisible podcast about this from a couple years ago.  I’ve been interested in this story since then and can’t wait to finish the series.

[BigBenBamboozle 1,957]

On 3/26/2018 at 9:53 PM, wild_turkey said:

Sheela was an excellent villain but I get her for what she was. I don't agree with most of what she did, but she appeared 100% committed to doing her role.

Bhagwam really pissed me off. Complete snake oil salesman that would change his official position on things at the drop of a hat. It's laughable that he was silent for 4 years while Sheela ran the daily operations, then he later tried to claim he didn't agree with the Rajneesh "religion" and that Sheela did that behind his back. That guy was fully aware of everything that was going on at all times. I'm sure he was fully involved in their schemes to poison the town, burn the court house, murder the attorney general, etc. It sucks that he got to leave the country while some of the other people actually did jail time.

I guess the more baffling thing is that people appeared to completely buy into whatever he was selling on any given day. The lawyer/mayor they kept interviewing is possibly the worst of them all. I'd have a little more respect for the guy if he would just admit he wanted to get off the grid and join a sex commune for a few years. That doesn't appear to be the case with him (or a lot of them for that matter).

What the doc didn’t address fully was how Bhajwan “wasn’t aware” of Sheela’s management of the commune for like 2 years while a bunch of homeless men were being brought in, drugged, and bussed to vote?  Really?  Psychology 101: Bhajwan got publicly jilted by Sheela and broke his silence to go scorched earth.  

Also: why was the secret tunnel to the jacuzzi apartment skimmed over?  Why did that not get addressed?  Seems both Sheela and Bhajwan were playing their angles and neither bought what they were indeed selling.

[wild_turkey 3,184]

Bhagwan was fully aware of everything that was happening. He used Sheela (as well as the other secretaries) as a way to maintain plausible deniability, which seems like it worked to some extent. 

I wish we had more info from the FBI investigation. Did they discover anything on the 10,000 hours of audio recordings?

Also what happened with his first secretary, Ma Yoga Laxmi?

[Knoxtnhorn 6,066]

I know this is a stupid question, but I’ve got to ask.  Is the archival footage real or edited to look dated?  I just finished ep 1 and I can’t tell if someone, for some reason, had a shitload of random cult footage from ‘68, then ‘81, or if it is filmed to appear as if it’s archival.

[dutchmaster 0]

1 hour ago, Knoxtnhorn said:

I know this is a stupid question, but I’ve got to ask.  Is the archival footage real or edited to look dated?  I just finished ep 1 and I can’t tell if someone, for some reason, had a shitload of random cult footage from ‘68, then ‘81, or if it is filmed to appear as if it’s archival.

I was wondering the same thing.

Enjoyed the series. Can't believe I was totally unaware of Ragneesh.

[yoshi 137]

I thought the scene was hilarious when they caught the Bagwhan at the airport and they were talking about unloading his belongings including his "throne" off the plane.   His throne was just a laid back lounge chair.

[Neonmoon 38,130]

Loved the doc series. I’m amazed the cult still has a following around the world.

[Big D 249]

I fiound the music was too damn loud.  It drowneded out the dialog.

[Sandman 3,415]

I didn't like the font they used for the graphics. I could hardly read it.

[Pescado_Rojo 19,431]

On 3/29/2018 at 12:07 PM, wild_turkey said:

Bhagwan was fully aware of everything that was happening. He used Sheela (as well as the other secretaries) as a way to maintain plausible deniability, which seems like it worked to some extent. 

I wish we had more info from the FBI investigation. Did they discover anything on the 10,000 hours of audio recordings?

Also what happened with his first secretary, Ma Yoga Laxmi?

Yea, all good points. I would like to have seen more of the evidence the FBI gathered. At the end of the day, I feel like the cult were up to no good, but I also feel like the government (particularly the State and Local govt) probably pushed the boundaries of what was legal to get rid of them. The saddest part to me was the way they treated the homeless people they brought in to try to win the election.

[wild_turkey 3,184]

10 hours ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

homeless people

The preferred nomenclature is “street people”.

[dutchmaster 0]

3 hours ago, wild_turkey said:

The preferred nomenclature is “street people”.

or "foot traffic"

[zman13 180]

 

On 3/29/2018 at 3:58 PM, Knoxtnhorn said:

I know this is a stupid question, but I’ve got to ask.  Is the archival footage real or edited to look dated?  I just finished ep 1 and I can’t tell if someone, for some reason, had a shitload of random cult footage from ‘68, then ‘81, or if it is filmed to appear as if it’s archival.

On 3/29/2018 at 5:44 PM, dutchmaster said:

I was wondering the same thing.

Enjoyed the series. Can't believe I was totally unaware of Ragneesh.

This bothered me also. There was news footage from the 80's from different sources (NBC, ABC, etc) and it all had the same translucent lines at the top. So they obviously took the footage and applied some filter to make it look "vintage". That crap bothers me. Just let the video be old. Why do you need to modify it to look "old"? I think they don't trust the viewer to realize that it's old so they have to add clues. 

[Sandman 3,415]

1 hour ago, zman13 said:

 

This bothered me also. There was news footage from the 80's from different sources (NBC, ABC, etc) and it all had the same translucent lines at the top. So they obviously took the footage and applied some filter to make it look "vintage". That crap bothers me. Just let the video be old. Why do you need to modify it to look "old"? I think they don't trust the viewer to realize that it's old so they have to add clues. 

Honestly, I just assumed that they got a lot of this footage from folks that recorded this at home, and maybe one source with a shitty VCR had most of the tapes.  I know news stations keep tapes for years but they can't keep everything. Maybe some of the master tapes got lost or destroyed.

[zman13 180]

On 4/5/2018 at 10:41 AM, Sandman said:

Honestly, I just assumed that they got a lot of this footage from folks that recorded this at home, and maybe one source with a shitty VCR had most of the tapes.  I know news stations keep tapes for years but they can't keep everything. Maybe some of the master tapes got lost or destroyed.

That's a much more logical and reasoned approach than my thinking. So I'll consider it.

[Ted Lange 16,144]

Where are they now article. Includes link to some FBI docs too. 

 

http://www.vulture.com/2018/03/wild-wild-country-where-are-they-now.html

[Caddox 952]

The language used by Sheela and the others is very similar to the language used by today's identity politics. The depiction of the cult is so soft in this series compared to the reality of their actions, I have to wonder about the the filmmakers intentions. 

[mr. sunshine 2,833]

I'm five episodes in.  As always, late to the party.  I vaguely remember news reports in the 80s about some cult from India moving to a small town in Oregon, but had no idea it involved all of this.  Great documentary.

I remember a guy in college that only wore shades of red.  Something about the "colors of the sunset" and some church his family belonged to.  This must have been it

[zman13 180]

 

[Al_4_ISU 12,500]

I was fascinated by this, but ultimately felt it left a lot on the table.  I was expecting more exploration and the darkness and evil that was clearly lurking throughout.  The intimidation, the poisoning, etc.  Like when they commented that they had found the lab, they didn't really follow up on that even after it became clear that the cult had been identified as the poisoners.

I do think that early on, the cult would have kept to themselves if left alone, and I don't have much issue with that as a whole.  However, they quickly went from sympathetic sex cult to obvious sociopaths very quickly.

Agree with whomever else said the attorney seemed like a douche who's unwilling to acknowledge that he just wanted to runaway and bang a lot of chicks.

[bularry1 23]

I found the series fascinating.

What I really found incredible was the demeanor of the various US attorneys and investigators who acted like they had solved the Kennedy assassination by getting Sheela to confess to a crime the compound reported, and by getting Bhagwhan to leave the country.   Wow, way to go guys.  Only took 4 years of intensive harrassment, i mean investigation, to win this huge victory for the American people.

clearly the leadership of the group had gotten quite the God complex.  very interesting

[Knoxtnhorn 6,066]

I just truly don’t understand “group think”.  A lot of those in the cult came across as highly intelligent yet followed some random dude from India around like a bunch of brainless puppies.  I mean the guy had, what, 20 Rolls Royce’s and that’s your spiritual guru?  

[mr. sunshine 2,833]

Didn't Sheela explain his love for material things like a raven's love for shiny objects?  That it's just his nature and he has no control over it.  Not much of an explanation, but his followers accepted bullshit explanations for everything at face value.  Even though they were better educated and, by extension, did more critical thinking than the dumbass locals who had this guy figured out from the start.  But I'm just 5 episodes in so WTF do I know

[wild_turkey 3,184]

I think a lot of their members were probably smart enough to know better, but they were having an existential crisis and Rajneeshpuram gave them a place to escape the stresses of modern society and have lots of no-strings-attached sex. They probably went along with the Bhagwan because it was easy and it was required to partake in that culture. Fair enough and I can accept that up until the poisonings and everything else that came later.

That’s what makes the mayor/attorney so ridiculous though. He seems to 100% believe everything the Bhagwan ever preached, which was really a bunch of nonsense.

[bularry1 23]

The LA attorney was definitely all in.  Dude was still crying about all that decades later.  pretty amazing to me.

I was stunned with how many of the Rajneeshpuram residents out in Oregon didn't seem to be American.  Seemed like 2 out of every 3 persons they interviewed had a German or Australian accent.

 

Edited April 17, 2018 by bularry1

[yoshi 137]

5 hours ago, Knoxtnhorn said:

I just truly don’t understand “group think”.  A lot of those in the cult came across as highly intelligent yet followed some random dude from India around like a bunch of brainless puppies.  I mean the guy had, what, 20 Rolls Royce’s and that’s your spiritual guru?  

Because everyone was getting laid.  

[Knoxtnhorn 6,066]

Yeah well I was getting laid quite a bit before marriage and I didn’t have to act like a dumbass Aggy to get some.  I mean, I get the atmosphere and even some of the offbeat shit (clothing, hippiness, etc...but throwing your hands in the air (like you just don’t care) and crying whenever Apu walked by was a tad retard.

[mr. sunshine 2,833]

So the feds prevent the Bhagwan from leaving the country and punish him by kicking him out?  Meantime his subordinates get five and ten year sentences. 

I've been a prosecutor for almost 20 years, but I'm with the townsfolk on that issue.  I did enjoy the federal prosecutor's explanation, which didn't make any sense, but probably wasn't intended to either.  He did seem immensely butt hurt, even 30+ years later 

[Knoxtnhorn 6,066]

Agree with Burnt.  It’s rare to find a doc that allows the viewer to “pick sides”.  There were times when I felt sympathetic to almost every entity in the show.  

[cabowabo 4,514]

Just finished this documentary this morning.  Did Baghwan ever leave his abode other than his daily drives in his Rolls Royces or his lectures (when he wasn't in the middle of one of his 3 or 4 year silent periods)?  Sure he had some Rolls Royces and some iced out Rolexes, but did he ever get out an really enjoy the trappings of his position?  Was he banging a constant stream of hot, sannyasi ass?   As far as today's cult leaders (like Joel Osteen) it's easy to see why they do what they do.....big ass jets, River Oaks Mansion, banging hot pussy, etc, etc. I just can't figure out this Baghwan dude out. It's really no surprise to me that he committed suicide when he was 58. 

I also found it ironic that the Big Muddy Ranch went from being occupied and run by one cult (the Rajneesh) to another cult (the Young Life Washington Family Ranch). 

[Landomatic 3,813]

Just watched the first two episodes last night.  Fascinating.

[Mac8111 2,117]

They knocked this series out of the park.


Sheela was stone cold.


I will never understand the group think thing, but you gotta say that it is pretty impressive what they managed to build out there in some pretty rough country.

[Player 4,576]

The lawyer/mayor was clearly a bright guy, notwithstanding the fact that he swallowed the bhagwan’s bullshit hook, line and sinker.

He made a critical mistake though when he failed to pursue an appeal in the 9th Circuit after the local authorities turned the Rajneeshes (and their imported homeless supporters) away at the polls. I think that court, which was at the height of its liberal slant at the time, would have struck down the state’s decision to close the polls as disenfranchisement.

But he didn’t, and that paved the way for Sheela to go batshit crazy with some truly nefarious schemes, which made for a far more entertaining documentary.

[Angry Gorilla 1,769]

On 4/21/2018 at 12:49 PM, cabowabo said:

I just can't figure out this Baghwan dude out. It's really no surprise to me that he committed suicide when he was 58. 

Did he commit suicide?  I thought he died of natural causes.

[Mac8111 2,117]

They commented that he had drugs in his body and insinuated that the next in line people had been feeding him drugs.

[Mez2 4,025]

i bet sheela was a freak

[Aqua Buddha 14,624]

Just finished this.

Was anyone able to tell what the cult's actual doctrine was besides having group sex, flailing about, and talking about how great the guru was?  (How did they know since he never spoke?)

Also, good call on the lawyer from LA.  He just wanted to tune out and have tons of sex but feels he has to justify it through some spirituality nonsense.

Sheela was cold.  Townspeople were racist.  

[In10se 175]

On 4/17/2018 at 11:47 AM, Knoxtnhorn said:

I just truly don’t understand “group think”.  A lot of those in the cult came across as highly intelligent yet followed some random dude from India around like a bunch of brainless puppies.  I mean the guy had, what, 20 Rolls Royce’s and that’s your spiritual guru?  

Also known as "R syndrome"

[Lat22 4,018]

Just finished it. As Osho was leaving the US, I was entering UT. I can’t believe we all looked that silly in 1985. 

[NorthLoop 14,251]

Sunny

 

Would've then. Would now.

[Ths71 472]

After watching this I checked out a couple of other Netflix docs on cults. These are short docs. Interesting that both of these cults fled California when things got hot and relocated to Texas.

Holyhell is about the Bhuddafield cult that moved to Austin in '92. I think CNN aired this initially a couple of years ago.

Children of God is about the cult of the same name, now known as "The Family". The one that Rose McGowan and the Phoenix family were part of. They fled to Thurber, Tx after fleeing California.  This is an old BBC documentary. The leader Moses David was one sick fuck. 

Can't believe that all three of these cults are still operating today in some form.

 

 

[Deej 76,944]

aggy has been operating in Texas since 1876.