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Westworld Season 2

mackavelli

By mackavelli
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Js1

Js1 85,448

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Posted

You're drunk, your husband is gaslighting the shit out of you, your daughter is threatening to have you involuntarily checked in to rehab (again) and you just found videos of your husband driving your brother to kill himself and raping a female robot.

That might do it?

Sure, you think your spouse is a POS, and then you watch him tie your naked brother to a horse and leave him to die and then drag a beautiful blonde robot to a barn to rape her.

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Hank Scorpio
Hank Scorpio

Pretty sure the same thing would happen if my wife saw my browsing history. 

DougO
DougO

It's not keeping up that has become a challenge to me. It's just that I don't care enough about any of the characters or the overall plot to want to keep keeping up. There's no motivation. Regardless

Anton Chigurh
Anton Chigurh

Here’s a solid chronological timeline chart.

Guest

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Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Js1 said:

You're drunk, your husband is gaslighting the shit out of you, your daughter is threatening to have you involuntarily checked in to rehab (again) and you just found videos of your husband driving your brother to kill himself and raping a female robot.

That might do it?

Sure, you think your spouse is a POS, and then you watch him tie your naked brother to a horse and leave him to die and then drag a beautiful blonde robot to a barn to rape her.

I remember her accusing him of gaslighting and then you use it here, maybe my understanding of gaslighting is wrong, but what was he doing to justify the accusation? Confusing her about her memories of things? Making her doubt her own thoughts somehow?

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hornian

hornian 5,222

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33 minutes ago, OatmealRaisinCookie said:

I remember her accusing him of gaslighting and then you use it here, maybe my understanding of gaslighting is wrong, but what was he doing to justify the accusation? Confusing her about her memories of things? Making her doubt her own thoughts somehow?

It is gaslighting - she tells him "you're a psychopath who is faking loving me" and he tells her for 30 years "no, you're wrong, I really love you, and I can't be a psychopath because I'm generous and kind and faithful IRL."

Then, he tells her, "actually, you're right, I don't really love you" and the profile shows he's also a psychopath to boot, just that he only shows his psychopathic tendencies in the park for a week or a month each year.  So she was right, and he told her she was crazy for 3 decades. 

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Posted
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1 minute ago, hornian said:

It is gaslighting - she tells him "you're a psychopath who is faking loving me" and he tells her for 30 years "no, you're wrong, I really love you, and I can't be a psychopath because I'm generous and kind and faithful IRL."

Then, he tells her, "actually, you're right, I don't really love you" and the profile shows he's also a psychopath to boot, just that he only shows his psychopathic tendencies in the park for a week or a month each year.  So she was right, and he told her she was crazy for 3 decades. 

ah, that makes sense. thank you.

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Js1

Js1 85,448

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Hank Scorpio said:

Pretty sure the same thing would happen if my wife saw my browsing history. 

It's exactly like that.

Woman: My husband is totally normal and is so not a psychopath.

(checks browser history)

And also he likes...Wild West robot rape fantasies? Oh.... And he murdered a robot woman and her robot child. Wow. Oh hey that's my brother he just tied naked to a horse to wander the desert.

(or in Hank Scorpio's case, the browser history of fisted interracial midget porn)

Edited by Js1
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DougO

DougO 5,253

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Posted
6 hours ago, OatmealRaisinCookie said:

Maeve is super annoying as a character and actress to look at-- I might be out on season 3 just because she sucks (well, and if the finale sucks and I feel like this season was a waste of time)

I really liked her character this season until she realized she was in The Matrix and became The One. Then it just got stupid, until they Darth Mauled her.

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Hamttx

Hamttx 421

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I agree with the previous poster who feels that the writers got caught by losing their big reveal thunder when Bladerunner 2049, or at least Ghost in the machine made reproduction the POI in both of those movies.. And I feel that way because it sure seems as if they laid everything out for the bots to cross the last line in evolution....reproduction. When they scrambled to create a new aiming point.

Losing the significant point of Ford’s grand creation caused the writers to shift gears and in its place we get the cradle/forge or whatever the borg like point they are trying to make. Where we go old school body snatchers 1965 replacing humans with bots. A film old enough that maybe no one will notice that all of this material has already been covered. It’s a shame too because I have really liked what they were doing.

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Pato del Muerto

Pato del Muerto 52,532

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On 6/19/2018 at 1:17 PM, Js1 said:

It's exactly like that.

Woman: My husband is totally normal and is so not a psychopath.

(checks browser history)

And also he likes...Wild West robot rape fantasies? Oh.... And he murdered a robot woman and her robot child. Wow. Oh hey that's my brother he just tied naked to a horse to wander the desert.

(or in Hank Scorpio's case, the browser history of fisted interracial midget porn)

And the nugget porn

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DougO

DougO 5,253

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Posted

I think I'm done with this. The show is a clusterfuck full of cheats between major lulls, cheap exploitation, and amateur philosophy. HBO is no longer worth the price, time to make some serious programming cuts. I'll get the last season of Game Of Thrones on disc or something.

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Js1

Js1 85,448

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Posted
Just now, Horn_Spanker said:

Don't the writers realize we are just simple farmers. People of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons.  

This isn’t a show, it’s a nightmare. 

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Js1

Js1 85,448

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15 minutes ago, bolverk said:

This is a really good interview that clears up a lot questions about the finale. It's interesting to note some of Nolan's more Brisket-like takes on humanity.

Definitely a must-read of you have more questions:

http://ew.com/tv/2018/06/24/westworld-season-2-finale-interview/

Yes this helped a little 

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Tom

Tom 2,959

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34 minutes ago, naija said:

If you have to issue a post-finale interview to "help" people understand what's going on, you aren't doing it right

 

So much this.

 

Show was really good the first season.  This season was a convoluted clusterfuck that tried to do too much and jumped the shark with the non-linear storylines.  

 

1a.  WW Season 1

1b. WW Original Movie

...

...

...

...

...

...

...

247. WW Season 2.

 

If there's a third season, I'll still give it a shot.  It's completely possible for the show to return to form.  But confusing the fuck out of your audience and nothing making sense for 9 episodes only for you to kind of, mostly tie things together in the finale isn't fun television.  This felt like "Lost" crammed into 1 season.

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DougO

DougO 5,253

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It's not keeping up that has become a challenge to me. It's just that I don't care enough about any of the characters or the overall plot to want to keep keeping up. There's no motivation. Regardless of what happens, it's going nowhere, because it's just stuff that happens, and whom it happens to or is caused by really just doesn't matter. I don't care about any of them. If you like a character, you know they're going to change drastically anyway. If one of them dies, you know they're probably going to be resurrected at some point anyway. There's really nothing in it for the viewer any more. It's hard to be curious when you know the possibilities are endless and there are no limits to this particular ever-changing universe, because they can just cheat anything into or out of a plot. They don't even show tits much any more. Not in an enjoyable way, anyhow.

Season one was pretty good, with moments of greatness and some really interesting stuff and characters going on. Now it's the total just nonsense of some other poorly written show that's dressed up like Westworld. Y'all enjoy. I'm just not going to waste any more time trying to wish it back to being worthwhile viewing again.

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hornian

hornian 5,222

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, naija said:

If you have to issue a post-finale interview to "help" people understand what's going on, you aren't doing it right

This has always been a show like that. Even in the first season. And the first season was much better on a second watch when I knew what to look for to see when everything was, and this one will be as well.

I’m still in for this show for season three. 

And for all the tongue in cheek Lost comparisons, this show actually answers all the questions it asks.

For example, I made a post about the questions the finale needed to answer last week, and it checked them all off (my favorite being why some of the hosts had their control units wiped clean- because those are the ones that made it to the valley beyond). Also, I now think I’m correct about Stubbs being a host from my early season musings, so that’s nice.

I do think they got a little too cute with some of the time stuff this season, even though I understand it from a storytelling perspective (Bernard is the main narrator, so if he’s unstuck in time so are we - just like Slaughterhouse Five, which is a great book (and a nice easter egg from episode 9) and I can’t fault them for using one of Vonnegut’s classics as a storytelling inspiration). But I like what they’ve set up for season 3 with hosts being in the real world (and the ultimate end game from the post-credits scene) and I hope they get away from the slight of hand stuff and stick to the existential stuff more.

Anyway, at the end of this episode my wife said “oh look, you get to see Charlotte Hale naked” and I said “not the good parts.” Pretty much this season in a nutshell, TBH. It left me wanting more. 

Edited by hornian
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Bartles

Bartles 769

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I always assume post-credit scenes are meant for the diehard fans, and so while they may have some relevance they aren't going to be pivotal in future storylines. I didn't even know there was a scene until I opened this thread.

I guess the EW.com interview gave a very possible explanation of the scene, which if true confirms a couple things: it isn't vital to future storylines, and it's an example how the show can do pretty much anything and say later, "that was a simulation".

I did like Nolan's final answer in that interview. Don't exactly trust him to explore those themes in a coherent way, but I'll check it out.

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Buzzrock

Buzzrock 14,934

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Questions that the finale still needs to answer:
How did the lake/sea get created in the valley beyond?
Where is Albernathy’s control unit/what did Dolores use it for?
Why did some of the hosts pulled from the lake have “virgin” control units (not wiped, like there had never been data there at all)?
Where are Dolores, Maeve, Akecheta, Maeve’s daughter, etc? Did they escape? Did they take over human host copies?
Why is Bernard so confused when he’s on the beach?
How did he kill all the hosts that are in the lake?
Will Charlotte Hale get naked this season?


Well the answer to the last question was yes, briefly.
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wild_turkey

wild_turkey 3,168

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7 hours ago, DougO said:

It's not keeping up that has become a challenge to me. It's just that I don't care enough about any of the characters or the overall plot to want to keep keeping up. There's no motivation. Regardless of what happens, it's going nowhere, because it's just stuff that happens, and whom it happens to or is caused by really just doesn't matter. I don't care about any of them. If you like a character, you know they're going to change drastically anyway. If one of them dies, you know they're probably going to be resurrected at some point anyway. There's really nothing in it for the viewer any more. It's hard to be curious when you know the possibilities are endless and there are no limits to this particular ever-changing universe, because they can just cheat anything into or out of a plot. They don't even show tits much any more. Not in an enjoyable way, anyhow.

Season one was pretty good, with moments of greatness and some really interesting stuff and characters going on. Now it's the total just nonsense of some other poorly written show that's dressed up like Westworld. Y'all enjoy. I'm just not going to waste any more time trying to wish it back to being worthwhile viewing again.

This hits the nail on the head for me. It is a convoluted mess of a storyline, but I would be willing to put in the effort to figure it all out if I cared even a small amount about some of the characters or their individual agendas. I don't care about any of them. Many of the characters were likable (Bernard, Elsie, Dolores, Teddy, Maeve) or at least intriguing (Ford, MiB, Charlotte) in season one. They've either killed those characters or they've destroyed their original versions to a point they are no longer recognizable or identifiable. What am I supposed to care about as a viewer?

I'll watch season 3 because it isn't so bad that I'm ready to jump ship, but it's fallen pretty damn far from season 1. 

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deech

deech 2,291

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Posted

I guess I don't understand what was so complicated that people don't understand what happened?  

I mean I totally buy the other complaints about the series - especially those mentioned by DougO.  Especially the argument about the deviation from Season 1 to Season 2.  The Matrix analogy is spot on IMHO.  I have to be honest, the producers have to love contract negotiations when all they have to do is "load" your personality into a new body.  LOL

I lean more towards the show not being destination viewing anymore but just something I'll DVR and que up in some downtime.  I did not feel the Walking Dead was worth seeing how it played out.  I am still slightly more interested to see how this plays out now that the dinosaurs have escaped Jurassic Park.

 

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A-Tex Devil

A-Tex Devil 2,451

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4 hours ago, Bartles said:

I always assume post-credit scenes are meant for the diehard fans, and so while they may have some relevance they aren't going to be pivotal in future storylines. I didn't even know there was a scene until I opened this thread.

I guess the EW.com interview gave a very possible explanation of the scene, which if true confirms a couple things: it isn't vital to future storylines, and it's an example how the show can do pretty much anything and say later, "that was a simulation".

I did like Nolan's final answer in that interview. Don't exactly trust him to explore those themes in a coherent way, but I'll check it out.

So the simulation tag at the end was a ripoff of both Black Mirror (Black Christmas episode) and Altered Carbon, kinda.  

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wild_turkey

wild_turkey 3,168

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I think another major problem is the show has undermined the severity and finality of death. Any given character, whether human or host, can be killed and then show up later because they were resurrected from a digital backup. The rules are completely open for whatever direction Nolan/Joy want to take it, so no character is ever truly dead.

When they showed Dolores dead in the lab, I just rolled my eyes because I didn't expect her to actually be gone. Sure enough, she's already back by the end of the episode. 

Scenes that would normally be powerful and shocking are instead hollow. I find myself indifferent to character deaths because the concept of death is rather pointless in this show.

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LCHorn

LCHorn 2,624

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I'm still not getting the whole "Maeve, you were always my favorite", speech from Ford and it's place in the narrative.  She's discarded at the end, her arc resolved, and it's clear the focus has always been on Dolores/Bernard/William. 

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sidis

sidis 9,832

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, BurntEyes said:

Yeah, if you completely remove the finality of a death, then who cares when someone lives or dies. Doesn't mean shit. Therefor, I'm not vested in what happens. Setting aside the comments from others regarding characters. They killed off TMIB's daughter, but brought her back in the end too. Meh... 

no they didn't.  she was just a projection in the mib monte carlo exercise.

Edited by sidis
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sidis

sidis 9,832

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

You sure about that? 

yes, the post-credit scene was way, way in the future...long after she died.

edit: go read Js1's link he posted above.  in it, lisa joy says:

But the one thing we did pop in that did jump out of that time sequence was the storyline with the Man in Black. For the majority of the season, we're seeing him in the same timeline as everybody else. He's in the park as hell has unleashed. He goes a bit mad as he thinks about his past, as he journeys into the Valley Beyond. He kills his daughter, not sure whether she's his daughter or a host. Ultimately, we see him on the shore, as Hale — or "Halores," as we like to call her — leaves the park. We see that he has survived that final arm injury he's had. That rounds out that timeline.

What we see in the end recontextualizes a little bit of that. All of that did happen in that timeline, but something else has occurred, too. In the far, far future, the world is dramatically different. Quite destroyed, as it were. A figure in the image of his daughter — his daughter is of course now long dead — has come back to talk to him. He realizes that he's been living this loop again and again and again. The primal loop that we've seen this season, they've been repeating, testing every time for what they call "fidelity," or perhaps a deviation. You get the sense that the testing will continue. It's teasing for us another temporal realm that one day we're working toward, and one day will see a little bit more of, and how they get to that place, and what they're testing for.

Edited by sidis
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