Jump to content

Perpetual Middle East Geopolitical Quagmire Megathread

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
in Cloak Room

 Share

Recommended Posts

hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11360

Posted
Posted
Quote

The Saudi Consul to Turkey told the 'hit squad' accused of being flown in to murder Jamal Khashoggi, to 'do this outside or you'll get me into trouble', in audio allegedly recorded at the consulate in Istanbul.

Consul General Mohammed al-Otaibi fled Turkey yesterday, hours before it was reported that he can be heard on the seven minute audio Khashoggi allegedly recorded on his smartwatch of his own torture and murder. 

The audio - which has not been released to the public - reportedly also hears one of the alleged killers instruct the others to wear headphones and listen to music while dismembering the 59-year-old.

The torture is alleged to have seen the 'hit squad' cut Khashoggi's fingers off one by one on a desk in an office in the Saudi consulate, before decapitating him and possibly dissolving his remains in acid.

This comes as a man identified as having worked as a bodyguard for the Crown Prince is confirmed as a suspect in the Turkish police investigation. He was previously named as part of the 15-strong 'hit squad' that was reportedly sent to Istanbul to take out Khashoggi.

Maher Abdulaziz Mutreb, who previously worked as a diplomat at the Saudi embassy in London, has been photographed with Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman on recent trips to Madrid and Paris, as well as the United States, The New York Times has revealed.

jesus christ.

that solves how people have the recording. he apparently recorded it on his fucking apple watch.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6285357/Jamal-Khashoggi-murder-Saudi-Crown-Princes-bodyguard-murder-suspect.html

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Replies 1.8k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Popular Posts

ousuxndallas
ousuxndallas

Trump is the antithesis of that pussy Obama. The reasons why you guys hate Trump are the reasons we love him. He told Iran not to start shit, and when they did, he laid the wood. #MAGA

Brian Fantana
Brian Fantana

You've seriously got to be kidding me. In literally any other country in the world, Sanders and Warren would be considered centrists. The Overton window has shifted so far to the right in this fucked

Red Five
Red Five

You love him because he's a career criminal and conman and has no idea what he's doing and is historically corrupt and is incapable of telling the truth and is a truly terrible human being? That's wei

Posted Images

Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104631

Posted
Posted
What realistically could we do?

Maybe prohibit the murderers from traveling to the US in the future. And freezing any and all assets they have here.

That would be a good, specific, and targeted measure.

Instead, they’ll invest another $100 million in a $20 million Trump property, and move along unhindered.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
happyfunball

happyfunball 481

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, hayden_horn said:

jesus christ.

that solves how people have the recording. he apparently recorded it on his fucking apple watch.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6285357/Jamal-Khashoggi-murder-Saudi-Crown-Princes-bodyguard-murder-suspect.html

 

And the Apple haters said the watch was useless, gimmick of a device. I bet the heart rate data would have some interesting data!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11360

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The real take away from this is just how much the Saudis own Trump. 

yes, this is one of my biggest takeways. 

one thing we know about autocratic rulers is that they will always test their boundaries. putin did just that with the ukraine/crimea incident, and he got away with it.

further, now that trump is the president, he's begun attempting political assassinations in NATO countries with the poisoning in the UK. and he does it with a particular signature, so that the world knows he ordered it, even if they cannot prove it. and even if the world can, he gives fuck all.

now we have the saudi monarchy testing that same assumption. "let's torture and murder a dissident on foreign soil and see what happens. how far can we take this?"

the problem is, these autocratic regimes are learning how far they can take it. further than ever before.

which should be terrifying.

the president's equivocating and sniveling bitchassedness is rewarding this fucking terrible behavior, and a large portion of our country doesn't care because emotions.

Edited by hayden_horn
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Fozzz

Fozzz 152

Posted
Posted

Remember when MBS had the Prime Minister of Lebanon kidnapped and no one gave a shit?  imo, Trump's subservience to KSA is pretty conventional in view of the behavior of past administrations.  It's one of his most "Presidential" qualities.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23359

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

Remember when MBS had the Prime Minister of Lebanon kidnapped and no one gave a shit?  imo, Trump's subservience to KSA is pretty conventional in view of the behavior of past administrations.  It's one of his most "Presidential" qualities.  

Yeah, no.  Previous presidents would have been immediately vocal in condemnation of this.

Trump’s response was to aid in the cover up. 

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Fozzz

Fozzz 152

Posted
Posted

lol the right-wing dictatorship we were backing in El Salvador in the 1980s, as part of their terror campaign, murdered four nuns who were American citizens and we didn't do a fucking thing.  Had Khashoggi been murdered under Obama maybe the bribes would have been bigger but nothing material would have changed.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
gsoda3

gsoda3 3237

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:


Maybe prohibit the murderers from traveling to the US in the future. And freezing any and all assets they have here.

That would be a good, specific, and targeted measure.

Instead, they’ll invest another $100 million in a $20 million Trump property, and move along unhindered.

that's nice but it seems a little weak to me.  if it was state-sponsored could we not legally impose some sort of penalty against the kingdom?  sanctions etc?  obviously ignoring the reality of our present political situation... just wondering what options are open to us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11360

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

Remember when MBS had the Prime Minister of Lebanon kidnapped and no one gave a shit?  imo, Trump's subservience to KSA is pretty conventional in view of the behavior of past administrations.  It's one of his most "Presidential" qualities.  

it's okay if we criticize our allies when they act like barbarians. i would encourage it. 

trump could have come out with a strong statement against the murder of political dissidents while also cautioning to wait for the facts.

instead, he came out with his despicable "guilty until proven innocent like judge kavanaugh" equivocating fucking bullshit. he's come out and said he believes the king's and prince's denials. fuck that. we know that reporter is dead and dismembered. 

this clip says it all:

watch philip mudd's pissed off tirade. it's pretty goddamn good.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23359

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Just now, Fozzz said:

lol the right-wing dictatorship we were backing in El Salvador in the 1980s, as part of their terror campaign, murdered four nuns who were American citizens and we didn't do a fucking thing.  Had Khashoggi been murdered under Obama maybe the bribes would have been bigger but nothing material would have changed.

You keep trying to make this blatant false equivalency but it just doesn’t fly.

Previous administrations would pay lip service to the truth publicly, which has significant value in itself to shaping the behavior of our allies and enemies.

However, they would also double deal under the counter for strategic interest reasons. 

Trying to pretend that Trump’s behavior in this is perfectly normal is either misinformed, misleading, or disingenuous. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23359

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Obama would've sad-faced on camera and sounded tough.

And this has value in itself.  POTUS words matter.  It’s how geopolitical warfare works.  Condemning an ally publicly restricts opportunities they may otherwise would have had.  Praising them after atrocities only encourages more atrocities from them and others. 

Messaging is a big deal when you’re the world’s super power.

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Fozzz

Fozzz 152

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

You keep trying to make this blatant false equivalency but it just doesn’t fly.

Previous administrations would pay lip service to the truth publicly, which has significant value in itself to shaping the behavior of our allies and enemies.

However, they would also double deal under the counter for strategic interest reasons. 

Trying to pretend that Trump’s behavior in this is perfectly normal is either misinformed, misleading, or disingenuous. 

So your main issue with Trump is that he is too forthright?  

Link to comment
Share on other sites
hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11360

Posted
Posted (edited)

oh, and i'll tell you how this ends, in my opinion.

the saudis will conduct a thorough and timely investigation, as pompeo says, and you know what they'll find?

they'll find that neither the prince nor the king knew or authorized this operation, but this guy right her (#7 on the enemies list that kushner supplied them, by happy accident) had authorized the operation without approval, trying to curry favor with MbS. and don't worry, he'll be punished for this transgression, as will all that guy's loyalists, which probably include these identified murderers.

and donald and pompeo will say justice has been done, MbS conveniently gets rid of an expat dissident and a domestic political enemy, and further consolidates power while we end up looking the fool in the end.

Edited by hayden_horn
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104631

Posted
Posted
oh, and i'll tell you how this ends, in my opinion.
the saudis will conduct a thorough and timely investigation, as pompeo says, and you know what they'll find?
they'll find that neither the prince nor the king knew or authorized this operation, but this guy right her (#7 on the enemies list that kushner supplied them, by happy accident) had authorized the operation without approval, trying to curry favor with MbS. and don't worry, he'll be punished for this transgression, as will all that guy's loyalists, which probably include these identified murderers.
and donald and pompeo will say justice has been done, MbS conveniently gets rid of an expat dissident and a domestic political enemy, and further consolidates power while we end up looking the fool in the end.

Don’t forget the flow of KSA $$$ to Trump business interests. That will get turned up to 11.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13132

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

And this has value in itself.  POTUS words matter.  It’s how geopolitical warfare works.  Condemning an ally publicly restricts opportunities they may otherwise would have had.  Praising them after atrocities only encourages more atrocities from them and others. 

Messaging is a big deal when you’re the world’s super power.

I do not disagree. I'm just pointing out that this (along with many of Donald's problems) is actually fairly surface level.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23359

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

So your main issue with Trump is that he is too forthright?  

My main issue is he makes the world a more dangerous place with his incompetence and tone deafness when he has the power to make it freer and safer. 

Just because we do business with the Saudis doesn’t mean we can’t call them out on their shit.  

We are the United States. Why should we give a flying fuck about hurting Saudi Arabia’s feelings?

Trump is just showing how much of a compromised coward he is in all this. 

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
Link to comment
Share on other sites
hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11360

Posted
Posted
Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

My main issue is he makes the world a more dangerous place with his incompetence and tone deafness when he has the power to make it freer and safer. 

To just because we do business with the Saudis doesn’t mean we can’t call them out on their shit.  

We are the United States. Why should we give a flying fuck about hurting Saudi Arabia’s feelings.

Trump is just showing how much of a fucking compromised coward he is in all this. 

that last line is the real crux of the issue. he's fucking capitulating. 

saudi arabia needs us as well as us them. sure, saudi arabia could turn to russia for weapons instead of us, but they know our shit is superior. and they like our oil money. it's not like this shit is a one way street.

you strongly decry the fucking murder of a us resident (albeit a saudi national) on turkish soil (albeit technically on saudi diplomatic soil) because of his political views on the saudi government. 

this is not that much different than china disappearing prominent (sometimes inter)national figures for "corruption" based reasons. 

this behavior cannot be encouraged, and, in fact, must be actively fucking discouraged in the strongest possible terms.

now the word "possible" takes into account our relationship with the saudis, but nevertheless there is the room to decry this act of terrorism and not cut all ties with saudi arabia. 

we have intelligence assets that know what happened. hell, the world fucking KNOWS what happened. and our president is openly doubting the existence of an audio tape of the man's torture, which is alleged to be very profession-specific as though to send a message. cutting off a journalist's fingers is a poignant mob-type message for a mob-type hit ordered by a fucking mob boss. 

they don't have all the leverage.

unless they do, which i know brisket thinks, and then i'm out on the ledge with him again.

and if they do, we need to impeach the president as soon as possible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104631

Posted
Posted
that last line is the real crux of the issue. he's fucking capitulating. 
saudi arabia needs us as well as us them. sure, saudi arabia could turn to russia for weapons instead of us, but they know our shit is superior. and they like our oil money. it's not like this shit is a one way street.
you strongly decry the fucking murder of a us resident (albeit a saudi national) on turkish soil (albeit technically on saudi diplomatic soil) because of his political views on the saudi government. 
this is not that much different than china disappearing prominent (sometimes inter)national figures for "corruption" based reasons. 
this behavior cannot be encouraged, and, in fact, must be actively fucking discouraged in the strongest possible terms.
now the word "possible" takes into account our relationship with the saudis, but nevertheless there is the room to decry this act of terrorism and not cut all ties with saudi arabia. 
we have intelligence assets that know what happened. hell, the world fucking KNOWS what happened. and our president is openly doubting the existence of an audio tape of the man's torture, which is alleged to be very profession-specific as though to send a message. cutting off a journalist's fingers is a poignant mob-type message for a mob-type hit ordered by a fucking mob boss. 
they don't have all the leverage.
unless they do, which i know brisket thinks, and then i'm out on the ledge with him again.
and if they do, we need to impeach the president as soon as possible.

They do.

The house may impeach him for his shameless corruption.

The senate will protect him.

You know how this goes, why lie to yourself any longer?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11360

Posted
Posted
Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

And let’s not forget Pompeo being the good little foot soldier in all this shilling for the Saudis.

This is why Rex Tillerson had to go.  

Because he wouldn’t shill like Pompeo. 

pompeo has now genuflected for both kim jong un and mohammad bin salman. 

yay us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Anastasis

Anastasis 23394

Posted
Posted

These motherfuckers funded and supported the people who flew planes into our buildings and killed thousands of Americans and we didn't do shit.  This guy gets offed in Turkey, and people think that we are going to do anything other than keep our fucking mouth shut. A few of you might lose your fucking mind when Trump vetoes congressional sanctions, just like when Obama vetoed the Justice Against Sponsors of Terrorism Act.  LOL. You guys. We are the KSA's bottom bitch. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GRHorn

GRHorn 105

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

These motherfuckers funded and supported the people who flew planes into our buildings and killed thousands of Americans and we didn't do shit.  This guy gets offed in Turkey, and people think that we are going to do anything other than keep our fucking mouth shut. A few of you might lose your fucking mind when Trump vetoes congressional sanctions, just like when Obama vetoed the Justice Against Sponsors of Terrorism Act.  LOL. You guys. We are the KSA's bottom bitch. 

All of this.  This goes back sooooo much farther than Trump and a crystal ball.  Just last year after all that nonsense there was a big charm offensive, supported by our beloved media. I seem to remember MBS having a chuckling interview on 60 minutes. Might’ve even been with Lesley Stahl, the same reporter who tried to go after Trump last week.  Smdh. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
GRHorn

GRHorn 105

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


Would you care to lay a wager? House will impeach, on solid evidence. GOP senate will be “troubled by what has been revealed,” but will acquit.

It’s as predictable as tomorrow’s sunrise.

We have no checks and balances.

I think your best move now would be to figure out the ventilation for your brisket smoker in your Trump bunker.  Get to work. The end is nigh!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Lagunamadre

Lagunamadre 1975

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

These motherfuckers funded and supported the people who flew planes into our buildings and killed thousands of Americans and we didn't do shit.  This guy gets offed in Turkey, and people think that we are going to do anything other than keep our fucking mouth shut. A few of you might lose your fucking mind when Trump vetoes congressional sanctions, just like when Obama vetoed the Justice Against Sponsors of Terrorism Act.  LOL. You guys. We are the KSA's bottom bitch. 

Not to mention the home base of Wahabbism. Wahabbis make Iranians look like Buddhists, yet we are waging a Jihad on the Persians. Makes sense.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104631

Posted
Posted
I think your best move now would be to figure out the ventilation for your brisket smoker in your Trump bunker.  Get to work. The end is nigh!

As expected. You are gutless and nutless. You know exactly what will happen, but don’t give a shit, because you don’t give a rat’s ass about this country.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23359

Posted
  • Author
Posted
19 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


Would you care to lay a wager? House will impeach, on solid evidence. GOP senate will be “troubled by what has been revealed,” but will acquit.

It’s as predictable as tomorrow’s sunrise.

We have no checks and balances.

I’ve been looking at the Senate impeachment trial of Bill Clinton.

If Trump’s trial is anything like that it will be awesome.

But also awful and embarrassing.

Did you know Republican Susan Collins found Bill Clinton “Not Guilty” in his senate trial?

I wonder why she bucked the GOP then? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
GRHorn

GRHorn 105

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


As expected. You are gutless and nutless. You know exactly what will happen, but don’t give a shit, because you don’t give a rat’s ass about this country.

No. I don’t agree with you. You’ve been whipped into a frenzy. What’s the word?

unhinged?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
DDD Dad

DDD Dad 14252

Posted
Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

All of this.  This goes back sooooo much farther than Trump and a crystal ball.  Just last year after all that nonsense there was a big charm offensive, supported by our beloved media. I seem to remember MBS having a chuckling interview on 60 minutes. Might’ve even been with Lesley Stahl, the same reporter who tried to go after Trump last week.  Smdh. 

Ah yes.  Since we have a history of supporting these guys we should just "lie back and enjoy it?"

Crazy how some of you rationalize the continued further debasement of our country.

Edited by DDD Dad
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
deech

deech 2251

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Brisketexan said:


Maybe prohibit the murderers from traveling to the US in the future. And freezing any and all assets they have here.

That would be a good, specific, and targeted measure.

Instead, they’ll invest another $100 million in a $20 million Trump property, and move along unhindered.

Ding - Ding - Ding ---- $100 million transferred to the US - though totally unrelated (at least it's not to Trump directly...LOL).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/saudi-arabia-transfers-100-million-to-us-amid-crisis-over-khashoggi/2018/10/17/22b23ae1-c6a4-43a4-9b7d-ce04603fa6ab_story.html?utm_term=.0efb0adf787b&fbclid=IwAR10noSJd0LeKbBW35jwCpbO6MtTwG-CXiyWQMFW2SQuNf5OGYz5p_Zwx9w&noredirect=on

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23359

Posted
  • Author
Posted
3 minutes ago, deech said:

Ding - Ding - Ding ---- $100 million transferred to the US - though totally unrelated (at least it's not to Trump directly...LOL).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/saudi-arabia-transfers-100-million-to-us-amid-crisis-over-khashoggi/2018/10/17/22b23ae1-c6a4-43a4-9b7d-ce04603fa6ab_story.html?utm_term=.0efb0adf787b&fbclid=IwAR10noSJd0LeKbBW35jwCpbO6MtTwG-CXiyWQMFW2SQuNf5OGYz5p_Zwx9w&noredirect=on

So now we’re the porn star that needs hush money to  keep quiet except it’s not about sex, it’s about extrajudicial state sponsored murder.

Be best.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
GRHorn

GRHorn 105

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, DDD Dad said:

Ah yes.  Since we have a history of supporting these guys we should just "lie back and enjoy it?"

Crazy how some of you rationalize the continued further debasement of our country.

No. I’m laughing at the hysterics now. Media is getting everyone hyped up suddenly because it was one of their own and evidently not even someone who was a decent guy (Muslim Brotherhood).

I’ve long been against arming these scumbags or associating with them any more than needed. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11360

Posted
Posted
34 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

No. I’m laughing at the hysterics now. Media is getting everyone hyped up suddenly because it was one of their own and evidently not even someone who was a decent guy (Muslim Brotherhood).

I’ve long been against arming these scumbags or associating with them any more than needed. 

He was Muslim brotherhood? Where did you find that out?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
 Share
Go to topic listing


Football ... Basketball ... Baseball ... Other Sports ... Futbol ... 🤫995🤫 ... Gambling ... Movies & TV ... Music ... Hobbies ... Lulz ... Food & Travel ... Daily Texan ... Business and Markets ... Cloak Room ... Help ... For Sale ... Board Discussion ... Subscribe!... Donate!... Advertise... COOKIE MONSTER!

×
×
  • Create New...